• Bubapedia Error 503 Backend fetch failed

    Our technical staff are continuing to monitor the wiki to try and resolve these ongoing issues that are impacting page and image loading. We apologize for the inconvenience. We'll update as soon as we've got more information on this for you.

  • There have been changes to the pronoun field in user profiles. Find out more here!
  • All members are allowed to express their opinions, no matter how unpopular, so long as they respect others and do not claim their opinion is the only valid opinion. While we understand that there is debate regarding Goh, someone posting an opinion you disagree with does not give you the right to attack them or report the content for trolling/baiting. This notice will serve as a 0-point warning and as such, Anime & Manga staff reserve the right to jump immediately to point warnings. For more information regarding our stance on arguments and debates, see this PSA.
  • If you are finding yourself unable to log in, you should be able to fix the issue by following the following process.
    1. Close all browser tabs with any part of Bulbagarden open.
    2. Delete all Bulbagarden.net cookies (and if possible, any cached site data for Bulbagarden) from your browser.
    3. Close and reopen your browser, open a new tab, and log into the forums on the new tab.
    If you've followed this process and are still having issues, please contact us via the "Contact us" link at the bottom of the forum.

Review JN117: VS Shirona! Iris's Road to Dragon Master!!

LovelyChika123

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 19, 2019
Messages
216
Reaction score
349
Thing is, Iris's Dragonite's case is notorious due to the fact that he loses more often than he wins, and has in fact lost every single battle he's been in ever since he started obeying Iris, something that seriously calls his cred as a powerhouse into question.
The fact that Iris’ Dragonite has been losing battles since it started obeying Iris justs give the unfortunate implication that Iris’ method of training is the issue. This is negated by the fact that Iris’ other Pokémon are much more competent under her handling (her other Pokémon haven’t been consistently losing battles like her Dragonite has, and Haxorus always obeyed her).

Out of all Iris’ Pokémon, her Dragonite seems to be the most frustrating as of now due to its inconsistencies regarding its strength (at first I disliked her Emolga out of all her Pokemon). At the same time, however, her Dragonite seemed to be very strong against Ash’s Dragonite (until Ash recalled it).

In the official artwork tweeted by the anipoke account, it shows that Iris’ Haxorus is Iris’ new ace rather than Dragonite.

C5FB9372-5BAA-4053-981C-060E8B84B147.jpeg


If it’s true that the writers are getting her Dragonite worfed so that Haxorus can be Iris’ new Ace, then it definitely reeks of bad writing. Her Dragonite does not have to appear weak so Haxorus can appear stronger.
 
Last edited:

Queen Cynthia

Angelic Champion
Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
1,722
Reaction score
856
These sentences seem a little contradictory…
Honestly, I can't really see why. As opposed to all the other champions, Cynthia doesn't seem to care about her title or her rank or if she's a representative of Sinnoh. She was acting most humbly when calling herself "just a trainer who wants to test my potential". The poetic way she was calling out her Pokemon or giving orders isn't a sign of arrogance but proves this woman has grace and style. Being humble and having class isn't contradictory but goes hand in hand perfectly.

There's no weight behind the movements and attack impacts (okay, there were some exceptions to this but they are too few and far between), and no intensity and fast paced exchange of blows between the mons for a lengthy period of time
I'd agree with you if you were talking about Leon vs. Alain.
In Lane vs. Diantha there already was considerable improvement regarding movements etc.
And in this battle there was no sign of a lack of dodging or too little movement at all. You did see the massive exchange of blows between Garchomp and Haxorus and the dramatic showdown, did you? Also, Milotic was dodging and moving actively and frequently and Gastrodon's movements were very dynamic, too.


Also, I don't quite get why people are complaining about the treatment Iris' Dragonite got. Only a few weeks ago I remember people complaining about too many Dragonites being used in the Masters Tournament. So, in my eyes, Iris' Dragonite being quickly finished off by Cynthia's Milotic is a good way of ensuring the Gen 1 dragon won't dominate the tournament too much.
 
Last edited:
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
2,429
Reaction score
7,057
Honestly, I can't really see why. As opposed to all the other champions, Cynthia doesn't seem to care about her title or her rank or if she's a representative of Sinnoh. She was acting most humbly when calling herself "just a trainer who wants to test my potential". The poetic way she was calling out her Pokemon or giving orders isn't a sign of arrogance but proves this woman has grace and style. Being humble and having class isn't contradictory but goes hand in hand perfectly.
My bad, I understood that as you saying she isn’t into theatrics like the others.
 

Twilight-Kun

Megalomaniacal toaster on a keyboard
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Messages
1,452
Reaction score
2,858
In its first episode, they said that titles and exploits don't mean anything in the PWC - it's just a bunch of trainers seeing who's the strongest

Mary made it to Hyper Class and she's nowhere near even a gym leader's strength, and you've also got Ash and Iris participating to hammer that home even further

Let the queen of Sinnoh show off if she wants to - girl's gotta have fun sometimes, after all
 

R1ke

D U C K
Joined
Sep 6, 2020
Messages
727
Reaction score
2,653
Haven't seen all of it with subs yet but the main parts

Best M8 ep for sure, finally the characters have actual history with each other. Despite Iris losing she did really well, actually taking out 2 of Cynthia's mons and pushing her to mega evolve Garchomp for the first time. Milotic was so brutal, one-shotting Excadrill and iron heading Dragonite like that. Garchomp's entrance and mega evolution gave me chills. The continuity was all on point, whether it's the flashbacks, Ash being excited for Excadrill, Haxorus removing the confusion again and Cynthia recognising Iris' mons. Loved that end scene with Ash immediately checking up on Iris after. She lost despite giving it her all and he knows that all that feeling all to well. Also the cameos have been awesome so far, Cilain's surely gonna show up later w/ the rest of the companions

Can't wait to see Ash throw down with Steven next week, he looks serious af now
 

vivian20

Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2013
Messages
453
Reaction score
130
I feel that Cynthia actually understimated Iris at first , and thats why she didnt mega evolve garchomp at the beggining. Mega evolution is not like dynamax, theres no time limit , so , if you are at the last pokemon and it can mega evolve, you should mega evolve it since the start, unless you think you dont need to. Just remember when diantha´s gardevoir didnt mega evolve in its first battle against pikachu, and then mega evolved in the battle against greninja, mega evolved since the start against Lance. It doesnt look like garchomp is about to lose the battle when it mega evolves, it just seens that its not unfair to mega evolve against Haxorus.

Iris should have used dynamax here, couldnt she just ask leon for a dynamax band?
 

DashingFox

Yawn.
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
2,043
Reaction score
44
I feel that Cynthia actually understimated Iris at first , and thats why she didnt mega evolve garchomp at the beggining.
I honestly didn't see it as underestimating, it felt more like she was "measuring up" (for lack of a better phrase) Iris' growth. At the point when she pulls out the keystone it feels like she's acknowledged how much stronger Iris has become, and decided, out of respect, that Iris was worthy of going up against her full might.

Like you said, it never felt like Garchomp was losing, even before the Mega Evolution, which is why when people keep seeing people say " wow Iris actually forced Cynthia to Mega Evolve" or "Cynthia had to Mega Evolve to win", I keep wondering if I watched the same battle or missed a part of it or something lol.

Also for some reason I'm really excited to see Iris' being a spectator with Goh and Hop and commenting on Ash's battles for some reason?
 

Queen Cynthia

Angelic Champion
Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
1,722
Reaction score
856
Like you said, it never felt like Garchomp was losing, even before the Mega Evolution, which is why when people keep seeing people say " wow Iris actually forced Cynthia to Mega Evolve" or "Cynthia had to Mega Evolve to win", I keep wondering if I watched the same battle or missed a part of it or something lol.
Very very well said! :giggle:
Garchomp wasn't even close to losing at any point in time. I guess people keep thinking it because of that, admittedly, unfortunate scene after the final collision between Dragon Pulse and Draco Meteor where both Pokemon had their eyes closed and it kind of looked like either of them might drop while in fact Garchomp didn't even get hit by Dragon Pulse. I guess the writers just wanted to make that showdown appear even more dramatic and thrilling when suddenly Garchomp open its eyes and had that diabloic grin on its face.
I agree with you that Cynthia considered Iris worthy and strong enough to battle her ace in its most powerful form. Cynthia is a wonderful tutor!

And, guys, it's still giving me chills whenever I think back to that epic music during Garchomp's entrance! Just incredible! If you ask me the only thing coming close to that legendary moment was the introduction of Cynthia's Giratina syna suit in Pokemon Masters EX (see my profile picture to the left)
 
Last edited:

Imtnt

Member
Joined
May 31, 2022
Messages
277
Reaction score
161
I honestly didn't see it as underestimating, it felt more like she was "measuring up" (for lack of a better phrase) Iris' growth. At the point when she pulls out the keystone it feels like she's acknowledged how much stronger Iris has become, and decided, out of respect, that Iris was worthy of going up against her full might.

Like you said, it never felt like Garchomp was losing, even before the Mega Evolution, which is why when people keep seeing people say " wow Iris actually forced Cynthia to Mega Evolve" or "Cynthia had to Mega Evolve to win", I keep wondering if I watched the same battle or missed a part of it or something lol.

Also for some reason I'm really excited to see Iris' being a spectator with Goh and Hop and commenting on Ash's battles for some reason?
Agree, your first point was the exact feeling I got from the use of mega evolution part. Plus I don't think Cynthia was planning to use it right away so maybe it was something she recognozed durring their last matchup.

Though, I wouldn't say if she wasn't using mega she had the win for sure. Dragon type moves are super effective against Garchomp, and if the pace is not up maybe a hit by nasty Guilliotine could end this regardless to the power scale. I think Cynthia wouldn't take a risk at this point after the OHKO in the first matchup. It is not at this stage a place to aim low and not being 100% there.
From another prespective, the writer already made one of them trainers not using any gimicks. So it is already too much for m8 showdown..
 

Alola

UltraMysteryDungeon, when?
Joined
Jan 22, 2014
Messages
4,518
Reaction score
9,743
Garchomp's theme

Milotic's theme


Really like that they've stepped their music game up for the endgame

You can thank Journey's composer, Yuki Hayashi (same guy who has also done the music for My Hero Academia) for that. I've thoroughly enjoyed a large number of his tracks in this series (such as Power Showdown, Pokémon World Championship!!, Mid-Air Battle!!!, & Enemy Encounter) and the different directions he's taken. He's also really cool in my eyes because he initially uploaded the entire Volume 1 on YouTube when it first came out for free listening before the Pokémon-company-powers-that-be made him take it down.
 

Queen Cynthia

Angelic Champion
Joined
May 21, 2008
Messages
1,722
Reaction score
856
Cynthia vs Leon needs to happen,both have been portrayed as the strongest champion.
Your "great wall of text" line made me laugh hard :LOL:

And yes, I totally agree with you! Even if it might be a bit mean to say but I actually don't care that much about Ash's progress anymore.
All I want to see is Cynthia vs. Leon with Cynthia winning it. Then I could die in peace ^^
 

HiroHunter

Limits can be broken!
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Messages
849
Reaction score
1,195
You know after seeing a lot of people here saying how great this battle was. I wanted to give is ep a chance and see if I was wrong about the M8. And then I watched the battle and I was like "That was it? This is the battle people are saying great?".
 

puddleths

Member
Joined
May 21, 2018
Messages
199
Reaction score
335
You know after seeing a lot of people here saying how great this battle was. I wanted to give is ep a chance and see if I was wrong about the M8. And then I watched the battle and I was like "That was it? This is the battle people are saying great?".
Standards for battles in the community seem to center around the characters. As long as the trainers are in-character and given the level of respect they "deserve" it's fine.

The actual battles have only a couple criteria to be considered "good":
  • Animation isn't complete jank (think Ash vs Crasher Wake)
  • Pokémon don't "job" (this episode's only near universal critique is with Dragonite's KO)

Beyond those few things, the majority of the fandom eats up anything put in front of them.
 
Top Bottom