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Review JN121: The Climax Begins! Satoshi's Masters Tournament Experience!!

How sad is it that the most positive thing I have to say about these episodes for the past weeks besides Iris (which there will be no more of because she left along with Alain and Steven) is that they aren't as bad as the Grookey episode?
Oof that is an outrageous, but realistic reaction tbh. I kinda lost my appetite for the Master Eight Tournament as a whole. Alain has be treated weirdly. Lance kinda looked helplessly against Diantha and Ash was struggling until he used his DEM. Iris vs Cynthia was the only "decent" fight and even that one had problems.

I like Pokémon very much, but seeing some characters previous development or characteristics getting flushed through the toilet feels wrong.

Example: during Ash vs Steven
Wallace previous fought Ash and he detested Steven for a reason. So, the logical thing to do would show Wallace as a cameo in Ash vs Steven. But noooo. They rather show characters from Hoenn that nobody barley remembers.

Another example: during Lance vs Diantha
While we see Lance addressing the trainers from Kanto and Jotho, Clair is strangely missing. Instead we get characters from Jotho that appeared in a special.

Honestly there is much to say about these matches, but the battles feel like battles from the games with an occasionally anime twist. Especially Diantha vs Lance.

Also cutting 4 times to Team Rocket in one match is unnecessary. They didn't even do Delia's reaction to her son beating Steven and prioritized Team Rocket for some reason.

Sorry for the long rant, but I could write days about my issues with the Master Eight Tournament
 
How sad is it that the most positive thing I have to say about these episodes for the past weeks besides Iris (which there will be no more of because she left along with Alain and Steven) is that they aren't as bad as the Grookey episode?
That’s such a low bar to clear that I think we lost it somewhere in the Mariana Trench.
 
Lance kinda looked helplessly against Diantha
How did you come to this conclusion? Lance was leading the match against Diantha 2 to 1 after Gyarados went down and nearly won the match. His Dragonite was a powerhouse and tanked attacks until the last one from Gardevoir. How do you get "helpless" out of this?
and Ash was struggling until he used his DEM. Iris vs Cynthia was the only "decent" fight and even that one had problems.
It's true Ash would have lost without the Z move but he used it within the contrains of the tournament rules. Metagross took a fieshious rend attack from Dracovish, half the Z move and finished with Iron tail. The fact that Metagross dodged half the Z move and didn't just stand there in the air taking it proves the Z move wasn't an instant win for Ash, especially since it also survived it afterward before being finished with Iron tail. Do you not count accumulated damage?
Example: during Ash vs Steven
Wallace previous fought Ash and he detested Steven for a reason. So, the logical thing to do would show Wallace as a cameo in Ash vs Steven. But noooo. They rather show characters from Hoenn that nobody barley remembers.

Another example: during Lance vs Diantha
While we see Lance addressing the trainers from Kanto and Jotho, Clair is strangely missing. Instead we get characters from Jotho that appeared in a
I imagine Wallace is so petty he didn't watch the Steven match on purpose. :p

In any case the rest of that is just based on who they showed for cameos and who they didn't, obviously there was no way they would be able to show everyone so that sounds kind of nitpicky...they don't have time to give a 3 second screen to every notable character .
 
How did you come to this conclusion? Lance was leading the match against Diantha 2 to 1 after Gyarados went down and nearly won the match. His Dragonite was a powerhouse and tanked attacks until the last one from Gardevoir. How do you get "helpless" out of this?
For each of Lances brilliant strategies,Diantha had a perfect counter ready. She didn't even look concerned once in the match,while Lance had to give everything he got to counter Diantha’s strategies. While Lance went for brute force, Diantha went for elegance, which proved alot more effective.
It's true Ash would have lost without the Z move but he used it within the contrains of the tournament rules. Metagross took a fieshious rend attack from Dracovish, half the Z move and finished with Iron tail. The fact that Metagross dodged half the Z move and didn't just stand there in the air taking it proves the Z move wasn't an instant win for Ash, especially since it also survived it afterward before being finished with Iron tail. Do you not count accumulated damage?
Oh sure I do. Fisious Rend is a strong attack. It does 85 power, which is doubled by the ability Strong Jaw. Yet, considering Water type moves do normal damage against Metagross and base Metagross has a defense of 130, it may have had less effect

When Metagross Mega Evolves, it gets 150 defense. 10 Million Volt Thunderbolt has 195 power, yet again just does normal damage to Metagross combined with its high defense, it may have gotten less efect.


I imagine Wallace is so petty he didn't watch the Steven match on purpose. :p

In any case the rest of that is just based on who they showed for cameos and who they didn't, obviously there was no way they would be able to show everyone so that sounds kind of nitpicky...they don't have time to give a 3 second screen to every notable character .
Sure, sure. But some characters just made sense in my eyes, were logical.
 
For each of Lances brilliant strategies,Diantha had a perfect counter ready. She didn't even look concerned once in the match,while Lance had to give everything he got to counter Diantha’s strategies. While Lance went for brute force, Diantha went for elegance, which proved alot more effective.

Read this post on serebii about Lance's side of the battle:


I will put it in quotes:

Battle 1:
1) Relies on Dragonites Resilience + Endurance (This is a strategy which even Ash has relied on with his Goodra, Snorlax, etc in the past).
2) Uses Body press against Amaurus which has a 4X Advantage.

Battle 2:
1) Lance recognizes that the Light Screen would vanish initially and correctly uses a Dragon Pulse (Special attack) against Gourgeist.

Battle 3:
1) Doesn't care about Trick-or-Treat being used against Hydreigon, as he knew that his Dark Pulse would flinch and he could attack twice to take out Gourgeist.

Battle 4:
1) Taught Hydreigon Flash Canon and used it against Gardevoir.

Battle 5:
1) Immediately Dynamaxes Dragonite for the HP Gain = Stamina (Allowing Dragonite to take more hits)
2) Uses Max Hailstorm to negate the Moonblast (The best move he had versus Max Strike, Max Knuckle and Max Dragon which wouldn't have helped)
3) Follows up with Max Strike which hits Gardevoir and also lowers its speed (Part of Lance's end strategy post Dynamax)
4) The second Dynamax runs out Lance has Dragon immediately strike with the Hyper Beam which Diantha would have had a problem with as Moon Blast Requires time to Charge (And Gardevoir's lesser speed). Diantha however predicted this and had Gardevoir dodge immediately and then power up and strike back with a Moon Blast.

If you read all that you can see Lance battled very well.

Oh sure I do. Fisious Rend is a strong attack. It does 85 power, which is doubled by the ability Strong Jaw. Yet, considering Water type moves do normal damage against Metagross and base Metagross has a defense of 130, it may have had less effect

When Metagross Mega Evolves, it gets 150 defense. 10 Million Volt Thunderbolt has 195 power, yet again just does normal damage to Metagross combined with its high defense, it may have gotten less efect.
Well remember it's accumulated damage, Z-moves are overpowered in the anime, it got hit by half of it roughly, and then finished with Iron Tail before it could recover. It took enough damage justifyiable to bring it down. I mean Iron Tail should never work well on a Metagross but he did that against Tyson's and Alan's Metagross too and nobody cared back then either.
 
Read this post on serebii about Lance's side of the battle:


I will put it in quotes:



If you read all that you can see Lance battled very well.


Well remember it's accumulated damage, Z-moves are overpowered in the anime, it got hit by half of it roughly, and then finished with Iron Tail before it could recover. It took enough damage justifyiable to bring it down. I mean Iron Tail should never work well on a Metagross but he did that against Tyson's and Alan's Metagross too and nobody cared back then either.
Your made your point and I can understand that. Yet to me,personally, the battle felt weak.
 
I think a refresher of Ash's Pokémon was probably needed considering Journey's subpar character focus, but I'm quite sure had this happened in any previous series it would've been presented as a "one-hour special" alongside an actual episode. These clip shows have a higher production value than the AG-DP ones, for what's worth.

By the way, I liked this graph because I think it's pretty accurate:
Sin título-1.png


Unpredictability / improvisation aside, his other skills don't look like they were deliberately planned by the writers from the get-go, so it's nice that his "attack over defense" style gets this sort of aknowledgement after having been mostly just a fandom analysis.
 
I REALLY understand the production issues, but it gets boring. Waiting a month for a new Master Eight battle, is ridiculous.:bulbaFacepalm:

Unfortunately, I for one cannot overlook the production issues with the Pokemon anime.

As Dogasu and I have pointed out previously, other long-running anime such as One Piece or Detective Conan have practically resumed usual production, with both of the above-mentioned anime even getting feature films this year.

Even if you argue that maybe OLM Studios (the ones in charge of the Pokemon anime) are just having issues stemming from the pandemic, there's also the Yo-kai Watch anime to consider. While they are also produced by OLM Studios, they for one have had an animated movie in November 2021, have not missed a single week of broadcast in 2022, and have only taken a weekly break for 3 times since it started airing in April 2021 (one of which was for New Year's Eve). The only difference is that they are produced by a different team within OLM Studios, Team Inoue for Yo-kai Watch and Team Kato for Pokemon.

At some point, you have to recognize that something has probably gone wrong behind the scenes with the production of the Pokemon anime. Unlike other teams at OLM Studios (e.g. Team Inoue, Team Kojima, Team Yoshioka, etc.), Team Kato almost exclusively manages production for the Pokemon anime and nothing else, yet they are the only ones at OLM Studios having issues with anime production? I don't know if Team Kato need extra help from other teams at OLM Studios, or perhaps if they need to collaborate with outside studios, but clearly something has to change if they cannot keep up with producing weekly episodes for the Pokemon anime.
 
Unfortunately, I for one cannot overlook the production issues with the Pokemon anime.

As Dogasu and I have pointed out previously, other long-running anime such as One Piece or Detective Conan have practically resumed usual production, with both of the above-mentioned anime even getting feature films this year.

Even if you argue that maybe OLM Studios (the ones in charge of the Pokemon anime) are just having issues stemming from the pandemic, there's also the Yo-kai Watch anime to consider. While they are also produced by OLM Studios, they for one have had an animated movie in November 2021, have not missed a single week of broadcast in 2022, and have only taken a weekly break for 3 times since it started airing in April 2021 (one of which was for New Year's Eve). The only difference is that they are produced by a different team within OLM Studios, Team Inoue for Yo-kai Watch and Team Kato for Pokemon.

At some point, you have to recognize that something has probably gone wrong behind the scenes with the production of the Pokemon anime. Unlike other teams at OLM Studios (e.g. Team Inoue, Team Kojima, Team Yoshioka, etc.), Team Kato almost exclusively manages production for the Pokemon anime and nothing else, yet they are the only ones at OLM Studios having issues with anime production? I don't know if Team Kato need extra help from other teams at OLM Studios, or perhaps if they need to collaborate with outside studios, but clearly something has to change if they cannot keep up with producing weekly episodes for the Pokemon anime.
Yeah it is kinda weird. I start to wonder if the animators don't find Pokémon appealing enough anymore. Honestly a weekly anime is hard work and I would take One Piece over Pokémon.

I read somewhere they had to outsource a whole episode to China. Is it really that bad?
The Master Eight Tournament battles don't look "wow" so far. Ever since JN0104 the battles look quite stiff and maybe with the sole exception of JN114, it looks bad.

Also needing 8 animation directors for a simple Chloe episode without alot of action is weird. They had the same issues in JN020 IIRC.

The Cynthia battle looks better, but considering it took over a MONTH to get another Master Class Battle, it better will be good.

How will they even do Scarlet and Violet at this point? Also the timeslot is a curse for Pokémon. Lots of shows took the timeslot. In fact they only months without a break are February,April and May this year.
 
Cynthia is retiring from battles after the tournament? What?! WHAAAT?! :eek: This was my initial reaction. As you can easily image, I was shocked and devastated alike.

Then, after thinking about it for a while, I had some form of "enlightenment" that maybe it's actually the best possible scenario reflecting Cynthia's character in the most suitable way. Retiring after a showdown that will obviously be one of her most intense battles might in fact be the best way to step down with dignity. After all, dignity has always been the dominating factor in Cynthia's life. So, what first came as a shock to me might eventually be the perfect way so that Cynthia will become immortal in our hearts and always be remembered as the greatest Queen and Champion!

Also, I don't quite get the negative posts concerning this episode. I, for one, did actually like it a lot because we got plenty of valuable insights into those great characters. And as you can image, I'd like to focus on all the great things that were said about our Queen, because the episode almost felt like a hymn to Cynthia. Here's a summary of the most important facts about her that were mentioned:
  • "Dignified Queen of Sinnoh"
  • "Cynthia the Wise" who has an "incredible wealth of knowledge" : Obviously she's one of the smartest and most intelligent characters in the Pokemon Universe, something I've always been hoping for to be confirmed some day.
  • It was also confirmed that Cynthia "dominated" the battle against Iris and won "with dignity". A wonderful statement!
  • Garchomp was revealed to have "top-class" stats for attack, defense and speed and that "only the heavens are the limit for its power". Can't think of a better way to describe this perfect Pokemon.
  • When comparing the graphs of Cynthia and Leon and adding up the values for attack, tactics, experience etc. , you'll realize they both have the same amount of total points. This means Cynthia is considered as strong as Leon! :giggle:
Last but not least, Cynthia was officially called "the greatest of the Masters Eight". This genuinely makes me wonder if Ash might actually lose to Cynthia and if we'll get a Cynthia vs. Leon showdown which would be a dream come true!
Well, you could say that everything points towards Ash vs. Leon. That's correct. But still, why would they call Cynthia the greatest of the Masters Eight, which would make Leon's title "monarch" null and void and prove that Cynthia is stronger than Leon, it it weren't so? Now that certainly is interesting!

To sum up: For a Cynthia fan like me this episode was just great, especially the Cynthia vs. Ash trailer at the end. Yes, it was a shock at first to hear Cynthia is planning to retire from battles but as I was explaining at the beginning of my post, I'm hoping this step will actually turn out to be the perfect way for the most perfect character of the show.
 
It is an interesting mix of reponses from Cynthia fans. Some are ready to see Cynthia fight Ash,while others get annoyed and don't like to see Cynthia lose. :love:

Whatever you like or hate Cynthia, you gotta admit that Cynthia has/had a big impact on the anime. She appears in 3 series. :eek:

Some are scared Journeys will demote Cynthia character like they did with Alain. A fear I can perfectly understand. :unsure:

I just want that we stay realistic when rating this battle. Thank you! :giggle:
 
For each of Lances brilliant strategies,Diantha had a perfect counter ready. She didn't even look concerned once in the match,while Lance had to give everything he got to counter Diantha’s strategies. While Lance went for brute force, Diantha went for elegance, which proved alot more effective.
I mean, there isn’t really anything wrong with it? I actually liked how Diantha won when everyone expects her to be the throwaway champion. It was an actual fresh showcase of viable defensive tactics. Usually the anime heavily penalises defensive battle styles so it was nice to see someone win with it.
Oh sure I do. Fisious Rend is a strong attack. It does 85 power, which is doubled by the ability Strong Jaw. Yet, considering Water type moves do normal damage against Metagross and base Metagross has a defense of 130, it may have had less effect

When Metagross Mega Evolves, it gets 150 defense. 10 Million Volt Thunderbolt has 195 power, yet again just does normal damage to Metagross combined with its high defense, it may have gotten less efect.
I felt this was a bit too calculated when another one of your issues was this..
Honestly there is much to say about these matches, but the battles feel like battles from the games with an occasionally anime twist. Especially Diantha vs Lance.
The above things you point out do deviate from the games though?

Yeah it is kinda weird. I start to wonder if the animators don't find Pokémon appealing enough anymore. Honestly a weekly anime is hard work and I would take One Piece over Pokémon.
The Pokémon company is just another client for animation. They won’t just stop getting lax in their contractual work because they don’t "find Pokémon appealing".
 
Although it's unlikely to happen, I haven't given up hope yet that we might get a Cynthia vs. Leon showdown in the end.
I mean Ash will still be around for a couple of years and he'll get plenty of opportunities to become the best. But if there's any meaning behind the writers calling Cynthia "the greatest of the Masters Eight", then we simply must have that showdown.
 
Although it's unlikely to happen, I haven't given up hope yet that we might get a Cynthia vs. Leon showdown in the end.
I mean Ash will still be around for a couple of years and he'll get plenty of opportunities to become the best. But if there's any meaning behind the writers calling Cynthia "the greatest of the Masters Eight", then we simply must have that showdown.
If there's any meaning behind the writers saying Ash is going to reach his apex and fight the ultimate battle he needs that Leon showdown instead.

Edit: It's also possibly just because of Cynthia's huge fanbase; if Ash beats both of them it leaves the question of which of the two champions is better as an open question rather than giving an answer.
 
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Edit: It's also possibly just because of Cynthia's huge fanbase; if Ash beats both of them it leaves the question of which of the two champions is better as an open question rather than giving an answer.
While having Leon actively defeat Lance, Lance being beat by Diantha and then Diantha being beaten by Leon, that ship has long sailed and is exactly why the Masters Eight is an insanely dumb idea in practice.
 
Look, I understand that Journeys is having major production issues but this is just ridiculous. So far we have gotten a pointless Chloe episode that gave her already half-baked arc zero closure whatsoever that is also slapped in between two clip shows...Yay... I know Journeys' production issues seem to be affecting the M8...and not in a good way. The clip shows and breaks are getting exhausting, luckily it seems like after JN122 comes out we won't have another clip show or break.
 
I liked it, but its sad we get to see again how there was a screentime problem for the progress Ash's pokemon had.
I don't like is the option Ash will fight Cynthia... I LIKE BETTER the option he will get reserves in the final...
 
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