Review JN123: The Semifinals II: "Dazzle"

[Handy Man]

Because it took away Greninja’s spotlight and is doing what Greninja should have done

Another problem with Lucario is that it has only Mega Evolved twice ever. It happened during the Ultra Class battle with Bea in JN086, and when meeting Greninja in JN108. The fact that Korrina had an entire arc to master Mega Lucario in XY, and Ash’s Lucario never went under a training arc after it evolved from Riolu, makes its feats feel unearned in my opinion. Compare that to Greninja, who had multiple episodes of it battling against trainers like Alain, Sawyer, and Diantha in order to master the Ash-Greninja form. It’s going to be jarring to see Mega Lucario goe toe-to-toe with Garchomp, despite barely ever practicing its Mega form.

 

[KrspaceT]

So now got subs.

Battle chat

• I do like how it is shown that Spiritomb isn't just a Pokemon, but an offbeat choice. I'm reminded of how in real life people get thrown off when Pokemon like Haunter, Seaking, or Pachirisu are part of major teams. See FSW. Honestly that is a legit strategy, and I'm reminded of how Slaking was used against Hawlucha in the Kalos League, but as a more general strategy. Slaking worked because it was Hawlucha. Spiritomb works on most any opponent. After all, this is like the third episode in a thousand one of those showed up. Honestly the loss is only a problem because of Raihan and Paul, less this actual battle.
• Yeah, this is a mindgame thing. I am not a hundred percent sure she specifically chose Roserade, but yeah she is using psychological warfare too. Also Roserade v Gengar felt more like an even fight, though we'll find out next week if Natural Cure was a thing. I won't lie, Cynthia feels like she's up oneing Paul on working with how Ash operates. Makes sense I guess, she is probably the most familiar with him. Honestly though, without the chip from Roserade I think Gengar might have lived the first Sucker Punch, though he'd probably have double KO'd Spiritomb at best.
• Oh dang Cynthia looks like she's having fun screwing with Ash. Maybe the ice cream incidents are intentional....
• One side effect of Cynthia's tactics is I do think she's showing a lot of hand before Leon. Honestly that could show a level of respect for Ash's threat level...
• 'Absorbs the Impact' is not 'no damage'. Yeah this was a bit quick, but nothing that nutsy.
• Type match ups are nothing to Ash. Diantha, truer words are rarer ever said
• Whoever picks the timing for Cynthia's wicked latin theme knows the moment. Ash had managed to deal with what might actually be the biggest threat to his remaining team, but Spiritomb left its mark. Yeah, he's going to have to put a lot of work in Part 2 and 3 thanks to Spiritomb

 

[Sai]

@Kairyu surprised you didn't care for the tactics of this ep since it was written exactly like an older DP style battle. As I mentioned before, the fast pacing with the switches meant the battle didn't linger on one aspect for long. Animation was fine for this ep as well and Iwane's next week already looks good.

 

[Eitarou]

Thing is though, even if he did switch her out, Dragonite would still be asleep later and be vulnerable to any of Cynthia's pokemon. So Dragonite was screwed for the match the moment she was put to sleep

Letting Spiritomb fully heal itself isn't much better. It'd probably be the lesser of two evils.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Because it took away Greninja’s spotlight and is doing what Greninja should have done

Greninja got plenty of spotlight and success in XY. Journeys is Lucario's time to shine. Greninja's brief return was just to advance Lucario's story and development.

Another problem with Lucario is that it has only Mega Evolved twice ever. It happened during the Ultra Class battle with Bea in JN086, and when meeting Greninja in JN108. The fact that Korrina had an entire arc to master Mega Lucario in XY, and Ash’s Lucario never went under a training arc after it evolved from Riolu, makes its feats feel unearned in my opinion. Compare that to Greninja, who had multiple episodes of it battling against trainers like Alain, Sawyer, and Diantha in order to master the Ash-Greninja form. It’s going to be jarring to see Mega Lucario goe toe-to-toe with Garchomp, despite barely ever practicing its Mega form.

Lucario did train with Greninja. That helped both its base form and Mega form.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Greninja got plenty of spotlight and success in XY. Journeys is Lucario's time to shine. Greninja's brief return was just to advance Lucario's story and development.

It didn’t get any success because it should’ve won Ash his first league and should have beaten way better opponents. The fact that Lucario has been getting the same amount of spotlight yet better feats all while Greninja is used as a pawn to make Lucario stronger irks me.

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

It didn’t get any success because it should’ve won Ash his first league and should have beaten way better opponents.

Despite failing to beat Alain, Greninja achieved wins in many other fights, like against Mega Abomasnow.

 

[flowerfun]

As someone who's been very pessimistic about the M8 so far, I'm happy to say that this episode was a massive improvement over the others. I'm loving a lot of the strats that Cynthia and Ash are using here, like switching out pokemon to confuse Ash or Ash's Pikachu hitting the rocks and flicking them back at Gastrodon. They even made a reference to that counter shield strat that Ah used all the way in DP except they did it with Pikachu, that's such an unnecessary but AWSOME kind of fan service that honestly Journeys is probably best at. Safe to say if you're a DP fan, you'll probably love this battle.

The battle also fixed many of my issues with the previous six episodes (I don't count JN119 and 120 apart of the M8 arc because despite interrupting the M8, their not really related to the M8, I do count JN121 since although it's a clip-show, it is related to the M8 so I do consider it apart of the arc) such as the all the one-hit KO's, sluggish pacing, etc. The only issue I have with the battle so far is that Dragonite got done dirty. Poor thing went out way too quickly.

Aside from that, this battle looks like it's gonna fix all my issues with the M8, the pacing it quick as it should, there are no more one shots THANK GOD and the battle has real tension in it. I feel actually invested and really hyped about what's gonna happen next unlike the other battles which had one-shots and sluggish pacing galore.

Score:
9/10, can't wait for the 2nd and 3rd parts to come out.

 

[cricketlaxwolvesbandy]

Despite failing to beat Alain, Greninja achieved wins in many other fights, like against Mega Abomasnow.

Yes but those weren’t that impressive and it should have beaten MCX and way stronger opponents. Mega ABOMASNOW was strong but not that strong (8th gym leader level)

 

[FinnishPokéFan92]

Yes but those weren’t that impressive and it should have beaten MCX and way stronger opponents. Mega ABOMASNOW was strong but not that strong (8th gym leader level)

I personally don't see Greninja's loss against Alain devaluing what it did earlier or later.

 

[KrspaceT]

I personally don't see Greninja's loss against Alain devaluing what it did earlier or later.

People suck about overhyping losses in this fandom in my experience

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

For the love of....Can we not go back to this. Greninja's loss to Mega Charizard X was one of the poorest writing decisions I've ever seen in the anime, but can we seriously not go through this argument again? I don't even know why its being brought up when this is about Ash vs. Champion Cynthia.

 

[Alola]

Please stay on topic. This thread is about the first part of Ash's battle with Cynthia.

Any specific discourse about the Kalos League, Ash's Greninja, or other items not strictly related to the episode need to be discussed elsewhere in the appropriate thread.

 

[Sai]

So watching this a third time, Pikachu smashing through the rocks definitely seemed to have some impact on Gastrodon. It wasn't just the quick attack that did it in, but the debris from the rocks and likely impact of the weight. I think Cynthia was expecting Gastrodon to take out Pikachu (since Gastrodon is a ground type) hence her surprised reaction when Pikachu knocks rocks into it. I also get the suspicion Gastrodon might be the weakest pokemon on Cynthia's team, it wasn't really that clear in the Iris battle due to Horn Drill taking it out, but here it probably is.

 

[Imtnt]

So Spirit tomb as MVP so far was already predicted by anyone.. also the switching part. Also the fact Dragonite wont score any.. she fell too quick and spiritomb didnt even need to restore any energy. And it sux as hell and I can't wait for Ash to throw both dragons and get some reaerves againat Leon......

The only good thing I take from the episode: Pikachu could have won againat all 4 pokemon if not the evil drag...so got respect.. they called him the ace. The writer wanted to make sure we know Pikachu is in a high level and can take Cynthia's pokemon without being taking hit by hit and pull its win. And all of this when we know it is gonna be Lucario's time to shine...

 

[Queen Cynthia]

Charizard should’ve been the one defeating Garchomp instead of stupid Lucario

Considering that we'll get that defeat solely for the plot's sake, I'd say NOBODY should defeat Garchomp. Neither Lucario, nor Ash, nor Leon. I'll go with Diantha who claimed that it's Cynthia who should topple Leon at last. But no, there has to be that little boy from Pallet Town who needs to ruin the party....Well frankly, I'll can't see anything we could do about it.

The exploding rocks clearly also did damage to Gastrodon after Pikachu hit them. They didn't break with debris flying for no reason

I also get the suspicion Gastrodon might be the weakest pokemon on Cynthia's team, it wasn't really that clear in the Iris battle due to Horn Drill taking it out, but here it probably is.

Excuse me but that debris caused minimal damage at best. That was nothing. Cynthia's Pokemon could definitely survive it considering how Gastrodon was unfazed by those much stronger attacks from Iris' Excadrill due to its tanky stats and its flexible body that can easily shake off physical impacts.
It was pretty clear to me the writers thought they had to give Ash at least one moment to shine somehow, so it didn't look completely like he was at Cynthia's mercy. Unfortunately, it was they only moment in the battle that wasn't written well if you ask me because we know from Cynthia's battle against Iris how tough Gastrodon actually is and that it would have finished off Excadrill if the latter hadn't been lucky with his Horn Drill.

 

[Gard81]

This battle was definitely better than still images of a big monkey going Brrrr. But seriously, it's definitely clear where the actual effort was going.

 

[Sai]

Excuse me but that debris caused minimal damage at best. That was nothing. Cynthia's Pokemon could definitely survive it considering how Gastrodon was unfazed by those much stronger attacks from Iris' Excadrill due to its tanky stats and its flexible body that can easily shake off physical impacts.
It was pretty clear to me the writers thought they had to give Ash at least one moment to shine somehow, so it didn't look completely like he was at Cynthia's mercy. Unfortunately, it was they only moment in the battle that wasn't written well if you ask me because we know from Cynthia's battle against Iris how tough Gastrodon actually is and that it would have finished off Excadrill if the latter hadn't been lucky with his Horn Drill.

Excadrill pretty much bounced off it in their battle, but here it had the unbalanced rocks and Pikachu smashing throguh them. Since both boulders literally exploded and splintered into its face, that's pretty much exactly what happen. Besides that with Pikachu being as strong as it is now, there's no reason it shouldn't be able to take it out.

 

[Vincentz0811]

Thing is though, even if he did switch her out, Dragonite would still be asleep later and be vulnerable to any of Cynthia's pokemon. So Dragonite was screwed for the match the moment she was put to sleep

The best thing is if Ash managed to train his Dragonite to learn Sleep Talk like what his Heracross did back when he was in the Sinnoh League lol. But I don't know if that'll help and just saying.

 

[Alola]

This battle was definitely better than still images of a big monkey going Brrrr. But seriously, it's definitely clear where the actual effort was going.

The thing is, the actual effort was always planned to be invested in Ash's battles. The original Masters 8 plan was to animate only Ash's fights (a poor decision imo); it wasn't until late in development that they decided to do everyone's battles, which partially explains the overall lackluster quality of everything outside of Ash's battles.