so, i haven't read much of the posts (here or at serebii or reddit), so i'm not as aware of the general consensus on these ideas beyond that there's alot of positive sentiment about these episodes. i've watched parts i-iii twice (once w/o subs, once with), and then part iv closely once with subs.
i'm aware that, just in general, these ideas might be contrary to the general sentiment here and other places. it's fair to feel that if one wasn't overly positive about this battle, no reason to waste nearly 2 hrs. watching it. so when i get to critical points, i will try to say i'm here, and that maybe skip reading the rest of this post if that's not the sentiment you want to consider.
there some things i do want to express about this battle and journeys overall. some of this, i feel, is fair to say simply b/c dande, as a character, showed his strength by easily defeating so many of the other champions. this is satoshi's greatest ever challenge! is how whoever/whatever was in charge wanted this to be seen as, and so, even if your interest was more in the other champions, you would watch this battle and region till the end.
the animation, as so many have said, and it can be continued to be said, is really good. the supporting cast cheering shots, from hikari and chloe to shirona and carne are well done. there is no doubt you're supposed to cheer for satoshi. it's quite compelling; although i didn't find it so myself, i also objectively feel it's true to say it is.
so now for some critical points. this first one is not one really, but in the sense of how the pokemon company has advertized this battle it will be. i strongly disagree the takeaway from this episode was satoshi won!!!!!!!! this episode was about pikachu. pikachu's determination in this episode was what this episode was all about. satoshi himself really had nothing to do with what happened. pikachu's thunderbolt to the sky to show its fighting spirit reminded me of when pikachu sent up a thunderbolt as shinji was leaving in satoshi's first attempt against roark.; scenes like this/that, i really do enjoy. and of course, there was pikachu feeling the support of all satoshi's other pokemon before that volt tackle (i mean, thunderbolt).
this is likely pikachu's greatest battle, just from animation and focus. it's definitely greater than pikachu's tie with latios. i want to say this is also more than pikachu's victory vs tapu koko; but, though i've seen satoshi's battle with kukui, i haven't seen other alola episodes to really say that confidently- my alola experience is more from sun, which i've played many times.
this is saying something. of the three characters i think are the most important to the pokemon franchise, pikachu is 1 or 2 with satoshi, whichever order is preferred. to say that pikachu's greatest battle may have been written, that's an accomplishment.
but, it comes with real negatives to what journeys was supposed to be showing as a whole.
as more than an aside, but a truly deep criticism of this episode, cinderace's ko was bs. others have noted this, but like the animation, this also can continued to be said. i heard pikachu vs cinderace was a quick ko before watching this episode, was expecting it, and was still stunned by it. it is the literal definition of b.s.; it could be in the dictionary for the definition, and i would have no complaints. dande was as surprised as anyone, as if to say, "if i had known that would k.o, i would have done something different. writers, have you deserted me?" that completely changed the battle. and, there is no substance to it; pikachu has not practiced daimaxing much in journeys. so it's bad. it is a great illustration of an issue with journeys, that with little effort satoshi's team this region succeeded in ways his other teams have not. it's known dande trained before his match with satoshi; this is the only time intelion could have learned counter shield. satoshi, we know, verbally said he would not train before this battle. while dande could not have seen being given an extra daimax in this battle, he is the master of daimax; for him to choose cinderace over charizard (unless charizard couldn't again?), and then go with cinderace's kyodaimax fire move instead of the daimax ground move (i never used the daimax ground move..., but it raised sp. defense, right?), and to be completely overpowered like that..., i don't feel a simple dande is susprised too!!!! is a great justification of that scene. that's not lucario's aura sphere with satoshi giving aura (that satoshi actually has practiced) as was the case when satoshi surprised shrona; that's just normal pikachu kyodaimax electric move (that satoshi has not even practiced).
i tried to think if there was a worse k.o in journeys, and i did think of one i felt was as bad: the way go's cinderace defeated milotic in the 4 part sword and shield special arc.
it also comes at the expense of charizard, who never feels like the real last unbeatable pokemon it was shown to be, effortlessly winning against everything in journeys. pikachu's determination was so overwhelming, that i never really cared much about what charizard was supposed to represent. the k.o of cinderace, the way pikachu just shrugged off that battle and was more than ready to continue was too inspiring; i didn't feel charizard's "presence" at all. and so, for journeys overall, i really feel the way dande was shown to trounce the other champions was completely unnecessary; it would have been enough to show him as simply winning those battles respectfully. charizard's power as shown in journeys added nothing to this specific battle, in my opinion, or pikachu's victory. if it did, that k.o of cinderace, in that manner, would have been unnecessary to show pikachu's will to win here. other than being the finals (which is important,), i don't feel pikachu's victory is more than lucario's victory in the semis.
which brings up the gimmicks. obviously, it was decided there would be at least one gimmick per episode of these finals. i very much feel this is out of character for satoshi to accept the conditions that dande offered. here is the essence of journeys, that when watching journeys will determine if you view this battle as one of the best or lower, and whether you view journeys as "good" (a little hyperbole here).
but before that, just quickly. i don't think that mega lucario did anything that regular lucario could not have. pikachu using its z-move made writing sense; it allowed pikachu to survive charizard's kyodaimax fire move-with some liberties; obviously dande using the daimax dragon move and rock move for the other two moves made little sense but that can be overlooked. so, was it that important to show kyodaimax gengar, that the extra gimmicks rule for satoshi had to be granted? that changes the battle on all levels, and how this battle is viewed. i think it could have been avoided.
however, journeys (meaning, writers, whoever's in charge) decided that satoshi's growth in character in this arc would be his ability to use all the gimmicks. this is what he learned, this is how he "changed." from when he first battled dande, using everything, he could win now, whereas before he would not be able to.
i don't feel this is growth in satoshi's character, or even just a static representation of him as the alola champion. although i have not found journeys satoshi dislikeable, i have not found anything compelling about him here either. if satoshi winning this tournament is compelling, it's because of other regions establishing his character and showing his growth. since sinnoh, he was capable of winning a league (as is strongly hinted from what he does in his semis battle, and then seeing how the other finalist does). afterwards, he lost in unova to someone he clearly should have won against on paper, lost a 50-50 battle in kalos, and then won in alola to become champion.
journeys did not grow him in any way, or really did not show he is. to me. when satoshi learned a new gimmick, when he learned a new move, there was someone to help him. this was on purpose. in some ways, it was great. it's nice to see iris foreshadow kaiyru learning draco meteor, it's nice to see clemont help with meteor assault, it's nice to see greninja help lucario increase its bond with satoshi, it's nice to see the other pokemon helping gengar discover will-o-wisp, it's nice to see shinji battle satoshi and lucario learn bullet punch; b/c it's nice to see characters satoshi has befriended show up again. but it came at the cost of satoshi's character. satoshi himself had almost no worthwhile character moments in this region. i really can't think of any. i'm repeating this point, b/c it illustrates it perfectly: satoshi didn't practice before the final match with dande; dande did.
satoshi using his reserves could have avoided this point, but the ones overseeing journeys wanted this team to be the "ultimate" team.
so instead journeys argues that satoshi having all the gimmicks is his character growth. this is the result of his journeys. dande proposes that satoshi can do that if he wants in this match.
i have no issue with dande offering that.
i have issue with satoshi accepting.
for journey's to justify what satoshi's growth is, it tranced on something i felt is actually something admirable about his character.
the satoshi who refused to borrow hikari's pochama to make his battle with roark easier b/c of how shinji won against roark, the satoshi who refused to accept a gym badge from volkner w/o battling him....the satoshi who fought shinji with his sinnoh team, b/c he wanted to use that specific team against shinji (whether shinji used the same team or not; shinji flat out laughed at satoshi when he realized what satoshi was doing, on such a big occasion). all of these are examples from sinnoh, but i'm sure there are many more from other regions. this is satoshi, and is something that made him special.
that is plot armor in itself, that satoshi has won with these ideals. i really feel satoshi would have been fine losing to dande, if written correctly, than to win the way he did with all the gimmicks. as unbeatable as dande is, he is still only the galar champion, as satoshi is the alola champion; they are both champions, and it should have been possible to win w/o resorting to an unfair advantage.
now, was it really "unfair?" here's what i would say, and i think this is valid. we know the rules for the past pokemon vgc was that you can use two legendary pokemon. that doesn't mean you have to, and if you battled in any way (showdown, or whatever) or just watched unedited videos of people battling, you're aware that some people chose to use just one legendary pokemon, or none at all. does that mean in such battles you don't use your legendary pokemon? i myself tended to just use one. however, and i believe this is the general sentiment, it's your decision to not use any, you should not expect anyone not to bring their own legendary pokemon, or feel a win means more if you do win that way (although i've seen some youtube videos of, "look i beat a team of ubers with so and so".) sometimes, even when having two legendary pokemon, it's best to only bring one b/c of the matchup.
however, let's say on showdown someone said, "hey, if you want, you can use 3 legendary pokemon if you want. or you can use z moves, or mega evolution. primal groudon/kyroge if you want!" smogon, for this specific player, allowed you to change the rules b/c this player had that much influence. would you accept?
i would not. and i think from my experience, most players i've come across would not. the rules are what they are and were made that way for a reason. once they're established, that's what we play with.
not all players would think that way. some players would want to win, and say "suit yourself." and some players make a living from this. if they were offered that advantage, some of those would take it.
but i really do think, from my experience, that most would say, "no. we'll play with the official rules. as equals. what you want to do from there is up to you."
so, again, i think it was out of character for satoshi to accept these conditions. but journeys felt that satoshi's growth was being able to use all the gimmicks, and so they had him accept. how you view that is how you view satoshi winning this tournament, and journeys satoshi.
as a final aside, i didn't care for the depiction that all of these wins in the tournament were "upsets" as the show put it (at least the daigo and shirona victories were called that after satoshi defeated shirona). satoshi should have been advanced enough to theoretically win these matches under the right circumstances.
i'm aware that, just in general, these ideas might be contrary to the general sentiment here and other places. it's fair to feel that if one wasn't overly positive about this battle, no reason to waste nearly 2 hrs. watching it. so when i get to critical points, i will try to say i'm here, and that maybe skip reading the rest of this post if that's not the sentiment you want to consider.
there some things i do want to express about this battle and journeys overall. some of this, i feel, is fair to say simply b/c dande, as a character, showed his strength by easily defeating so many of the other champions. this is satoshi's greatest ever challenge! is how whoever/whatever was in charge wanted this to be seen as, and so, even if your interest was more in the other champions, you would watch this battle and region till the end.
the animation, as so many have said, and it can be continued to be said, is really good. the supporting cast cheering shots, from hikari and chloe to shirona and carne are well done. there is no doubt you're supposed to cheer for satoshi. it's quite compelling; although i didn't find it so myself, i also objectively feel it's true to say it is.
so now for some critical points. this first one is not one really, but in the sense of how the pokemon company has advertized this battle it will be. i strongly disagree the takeaway from this episode was satoshi won!!!!!!!! this episode was about pikachu. pikachu's determination in this episode was what this episode was all about. satoshi himself really had nothing to do with what happened. pikachu's thunderbolt to the sky to show its fighting spirit reminded me of when pikachu sent up a thunderbolt as shinji was leaving in satoshi's first attempt against roark.; scenes like this/that, i really do enjoy. and of course, there was pikachu feeling the support of all satoshi's other pokemon before that volt tackle (i mean, thunderbolt).
this is likely pikachu's greatest battle, just from animation and focus. it's definitely greater than pikachu's tie with latios. i want to say this is also more than pikachu's victory vs tapu koko; but, though i've seen satoshi's battle with kukui, i haven't seen other alola episodes to really say that confidently- my alola experience is more from sun, which i've played many times.
this is saying something. of the three characters i think are the most important to the pokemon franchise, pikachu is 1 or 2 with satoshi, whichever order is preferred. to say that pikachu's greatest battle may have been written, that's an accomplishment.
but, it comes with real negatives to what journeys was supposed to be showing as a whole.
as more than an aside, but a truly deep criticism of this episode, cinderace's ko was bs. others have noted this, but like the animation, this also can continued to be said. i heard pikachu vs cinderace was a quick ko before watching this episode, was expecting it, and was still stunned by it. it is the literal definition of b.s.; it could be in the dictionary for the definition, and i would have no complaints. dande was as surprised as anyone, as if to say, "if i had known that would k.o, i would have done something different. writers, have you deserted me?" that completely changed the battle. and, there is no substance to it; pikachu has not practiced daimaxing much in journeys. so it's bad. it is a great illustration of an issue with journeys, that with little effort satoshi's team this region succeeded in ways his other teams have not. it's known dande trained before his match with satoshi; this is the only time intelion could have learned counter shield. satoshi, we know, verbally said he would not train before this battle. while dande could not have seen being given an extra daimax in this battle, he is the master of daimax; for him to choose cinderace over charizard (unless charizard couldn't again?), and then go with cinderace's kyodaimax fire move instead of the daimax ground move (i never used the daimax ground move..., but it raised sp. defense, right?), and to be completely overpowered like that..., i don't feel a simple dande is susprised too!!!! is a great justification of that scene. that's not lucario's aura sphere with satoshi giving aura (that satoshi actually has practiced) as was the case when satoshi surprised shrona; that's just normal pikachu kyodaimax electric move (that satoshi has not even practiced).
i tried to think if there was a worse k.o in journeys, and i did think of one i felt was as bad: the way go's cinderace defeated milotic in the 4 part sword and shield special arc.
it also comes at the expense of charizard, who never feels like the real last unbeatable pokemon it was shown to be, effortlessly winning against everything in journeys. pikachu's determination was so overwhelming, that i never really cared much about what charizard was supposed to represent. the k.o of cinderace, the way pikachu just shrugged off that battle and was more than ready to continue was too inspiring; i didn't feel charizard's "presence" at all. and so, for journeys overall, i really feel the way dande was shown to trounce the other champions was completely unnecessary; it would have been enough to show him as simply winning those battles respectfully. charizard's power as shown in journeys added nothing to this specific battle, in my opinion, or pikachu's victory. if it did, that k.o of cinderace, in that manner, would have been unnecessary to show pikachu's will to win here. other than being the finals (which is important,), i don't feel pikachu's victory is more than lucario's victory in the semis.
which brings up the gimmicks. obviously, it was decided there would be at least one gimmick per episode of these finals. i very much feel this is out of character for satoshi to accept the conditions that dande offered. here is the essence of journeys, that when watching journeys will determine if you view this battle as one of the best or lower, and whether you view journeys as "good" (a little hyperbole here).
but before that, just quickly. i don't think that mega lucario did anything that regular lucario could not have. pikachu using its z-move made writing sense; it allowed pikachu to survive charizard's kyodaimax fire move-with some liberties; obviously dande using the daimax dragon move and rock move for the other two moves made little sense but that can be overlooked. so, was it that important to show kyodaimax gengar, that the extra gimmicks rule for satoshi had to be granted? that changes the battle on all levels, and how this battle is viewed. i think it could have been avoided.
however, journeys (meaning, writers, whoever's in charge) decided that satoshi's growth in character in this arc would be his ability to use all the gimmicks. this is what he learned, this is how he "changed." from when he first battled dande, using everything, he could win now, whereas before he would not be able to.
i don't feel this is growth in satoshi's character, or even just a static representation of him as the alola champion. although i have not found journeys satoshi dislikeable, i have not found anything compelling about him here either. if satoshi winning this tournament is compelling, it's because of other regions establishing his character and showing his growth. since sinnoh, he was capable of winning a league (as is strongly hinted from what he does in his semis battle, and then seeing how the other finalist does). afterwards, he lost in unova to someone he clearly should have won against on paper, lost a 50-50 battle in kalos, and then won in alola to become champion.
journeys did not grow him in any way, or really did not show he is. to me. when satoshi learned a new gimmick, when he learned a new move, there was someone to help him. this was on purpose. in some ways, it was great. it's nice to see iris foreshadow kaiyru learning draco meteor, it's nice to see clemont help with meteor assault, it's nice to see greninja help lucario increase its bond with satoshi, it's nice to see the other pokemon helping gengar discover will-o-wisp, it's nice to see shinji battle satoshi and lucario learn bullet punch; b/c it's nice to see characters satoshi has befriended show up again. but it came at the cost of satoshi's character. satoshi himself had almost no worthwhile character moments in this region. i really can't think of any. i'm repeating this point, b/c it illustrates it perfectly: satoshi didn't practice before the final match with dande; dande did.
satoshi using his reserves could have avoided this point, but the ones overseeing journeys wanted this team to be the "ultimate" team.
so instead journeys argues that satoshi having all the gimmicks is his character growth. this is the result of his journeys. dande proposes that satoshi can do that if he wants in this match.
i have no issue with dande offering that.
i have issue with satoshi accepting.
for journey's to justify what satoshi's growth is, it tranced on something i felt is actually something admirable about his character.
the satoshi who refused to borrow hikari's pochama to make his battle with roark easier b/c of how shinji won against roark, the satoshi who refused to accept a gym badge from volkner w/o battling him....the satoshi who fought shinji with his sinnoh team, b/c he wanted to use that specific team against shinji (whether shinji used the same team or not; shinji flat out laughed at satoshi when he realized what satoshi was doing, on such a big occasion). all of these are examples from sinnoh, but i'm sure there are many more from other regions. this is satoshi, and is something that made him special.
that is plot armor in itself, that satoshi has won with these ideals. i really feel satoshi would have been fine losing to dande, if written correctly, than to win the way he did with all the gimmicks. as unbeatable as dande is, he is still only the galar champion, as satoshi is the alola champion; they are both champions, and it should have been possible to win w/o resorting to an unfair advantage.
now, was it really "unfair?" here's what i would say, and i think this is valid. we know the rules for the past pokemon vgc was that you can use two legendary pokemon. that doesn't mean you have to, and if you battled in any way (showdown, or whatever) or just watched unedited videos of people battling, you're aware that some people chose to use just one legendary pokemon, or none at all. does that mean in such battles you don't use your legendary pokemon? i myself tended to just use one. however, and i believe this is the general sentiment, it's your decision to not use any, you should not expect anyone not to bring their own legendary pokemon, or feel a win means more if you do win that way (although i've seen some youtube videos of, "look i beat a team of ubers with so and so".) sometimes, even when having two legendary pokemon, it's best to only bring one b/c of the matchup.
however, let's say on showdown someone said, "hey, if you want, you can use 3 legendary pokemon if you want. or you can use z moves, or mega evolution. primal groudon/kyroge if you want!" smogon, for this specific player, allowed you to change the rules b/c this player had that much influence. would you accept?
i would not. and i think from my experience, most players i've come across would not. the rules are what they are and were made that way for a reason. once they're established, that's what we play with.
not all players would think that way. some players would want to win, and say "suit yourself." and some players make a living from this. if they were offered that advantage, some of those would take it.
but i really do think, from my experience, that most would say, "no. we'll play with the official rules. as equals. what you want to do from there is up to you."
so, again, i think it was out of character for satoshi to accept these conditions. but journeys felt that satoshi's growth was being able to use all the gimmicks, and so they had him accept. how you view that is how you view satoshi winning this tournament, and journeys satoshi.
as a final aside, i didn't care for the depiction that all of these wins in the tournament were "upsets" as the show put it (at least the daigo and shirona victories were called that after satoshi defeated shirona). satoshi should have been advanced enough to theoretically win these matches under the right circumstances.
) The reason I called it an unfair advantage is because it was a rule for Ash exclusively. If only Ash is given priviledges his opponent is held down and limited in their possibilities by that one-gimmick-per-match rule, then I consider that as plain unfair. And it makes me question Ash's status as World Champion because I really doubt he would have won without that rule change. (No, no, I'm not trying to defend Leon of all people, I just demand the same rules for everybody)
