• Bubapedia Error 503 Backend fetch failed

    Our technical staff are continuing to monitor the wiki to try and resolve these ongoing issues that are impacting page and image loading. We apologize for the inconvenience. We'll update as soon as we've got more information on this for you.

  • Check out our new Mysterious Garden forum style if you haven't already - we're sure you'll love it!
  • If you are finding yourself unable to log in, you should be able to fix the issue by following the following process.
    1. Close all browser tabs with any part of Bulbagarden open.
    2. Delete all Bulbagarden.net cookies (and if possible, any cached site data for Bulbagarden) from your browser.
    3. Close and reopen your browser, open a new tab, and log into the forums on the new tab.
    If you've followed this process and are still having issues, please contact us via the "Contact us" link at the bottom of the forum.

Speculation Johto Remake Discussion (Johto Confirmed?!)

EmpoleonProd

Empoleon Master Trainer
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
1,341
Reaction score
1,035
Now that Sinnoh confirmed memes have come to pass, let's not all start chanting "Unova confirmed" quite yet, because I think based on past trends, it's no great feat to predict Johto remakes next. With LGPE coming in between ORAS and BDSP, I think it's very possible we'll see Johto remade for a second time, since HGSS was the next paired release after DP, but since this is all just speculation anyway...

In what style would you like to see Johto remakes made in? The BDSP chibi style or in a style more like LGPE or ORAS? Or would you prefer the SwSh/Legends/SM realistic proportions style? What about mechanics? Do you want to see strictly the original Johto National Dex, or do you want them to be more lenient and include evolutions from future generations, like ORAS did? Do you want it to be a more traditional experience, or are you someone who would like to see Johto receive the Let's Go treatment?

Personally, I think LGPE were and still are the best looking Pokemon games, so I'd like to see inspiration taken from them at least from an artistic standpoint, but I'm not too fond of the removal of basic features like EVs, held items, and Abilities, so I hope it's not a FULL Let's Go-style sequel to LGPE or anything like that, but I guess I wouldn't mind it either as long as it's a fun game, because I had a lot of fun with LGPE too. I think ORAS are the best remakes because they took a lot of creative liberties including things like the Delta Episode, soaring, expanding on Mega Evolution, giving us Primal Reversion, etc. And I wish Game Freak were as ambitious with remakes these days. Hopefully they remain as faithful to HGSS as possible barring the Battle Frontier since that was a copy paste from Platinum anyways. I'd like an extended Pokedex with Pokemon like Azurill, Magmortar, or Sylveon although maybe that's asking for too much with the Dexit era we're in of games not having anywhere near all the Pokemon.

I think the most realistic outcome is that Game Freak continues to use ILCA as a secondary studio to produce remakes while they work on some of the more ambitious games, like Legends: Arceus and Generation 9. As for when we get Johto remakes? I'd say 2024. Legends Arceus could very well be the only big Pokemon game for 2022, Gen 9 in 2023, and Johto in 2024, although I COULD possibly see an outcome where TPCi and Nintendo want at least SOMETHING to give us for the holiday season next year so maybe they have ILCA building Johto remakes on BDSP's engine already, basically a repeat of how HGSS came to be, so we could see Johto remakes as early as late 2022, I'm talking like a late November/early December release.
 

Battista

Nostalgic Curmudgeon
Joined
Apr 30, 2011
Messages
480
Reaction score
569
If BDSP do well enough and they decide to redo HGSS the same way, I’m totally cool with that. Let’s Go Johto would be fine as well.

If I were TPC, one of my priorities would be remaking DS games into single screen affairs. Whether that includes HGSS and ORAS I don’t know. The second screen seems to have worn out its welcome and games would be easier to port that way in the future.
 

EmpoleonProd

Empoleon Master Trainer
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
1,341
Reaction score
1,035
If BDSP do well enough and they decide to redo HGSS the same way, I’m totally cool with that. Let’s Go Johto would be fine as well.

If I were TPC, one of my priorities would be remaking DS games into single screen affairs. Whether that includes HGSS and ORAS I don’t know. The second screen seems to have worn out its welcome and games would be easier to port that way in the future.

From what I've heard, BDSP sold extremely well on their first week, so it might be in Game Freak and TPCi's best interest to grow that working relationship with ILCA and just have them continue to do their remakes/remasters, since all they have to do is give them a game, like HGSS and say "do this but make it look pretty on the Switch, here's our model and sprite assets, have fun". That's why I think, while it's a longshot, we COULD see a Johto remake as early as next year, if ILCA has nothing else to work on right now, I imagine Game Freak is basically done with development on LA and probably has been working on Gen 9 for a little while.

And also, BDSP or LGPE would make a great base to build a Johto remake off of, I'd much prefer the LGPE style and I think it makes more sense to use LGPE from a development standpoint since they can reuse most of the map as Kanto appears in the postgame, most of the trainer models, including Red/Blue/Green as postgame trainers. It doesn't necessarily have to be a Let's Go game to be a sort of sequel to LGPE, plus I feel like games locking you into one starter could get old quick, as well as making you unable to evolve them. If they did Let's Go Johto games, I think it would be cool if maybe they replaced the Togepi egg with a baby Lugia or Ho-Oh egg, as a sort of reference to the anime which had a baby Lugia, and you befriend your game's legendary from the moment it hatches from the egg all throughout the game, and they could change the story around a little bit to where Team Rocket wants your legendary so they can use it for their evil deeds. This Lugia or Ho-Oh would obviously be very different from a normal Lugia or Ho-Oh, just like the starter Pikachu and Eevee had different stats and movesets, so to would this Lugia and Ho-Oh, they'd probably be weaker than usual considering they are baby forms, but as you progress through the game, maybe they become as strong as, or even stronger than a normal Lugia or Ho-Oh.

I admit it's a pretty "out there" idea but if you're going to do games in a Let's Go style again with a forced partner Pokemon, I'd rather it be something like what happened with Cosmog and Lillie, where she was kind of put in a position where she had to care for and defend this mysterious legendary Pokemon from the bad guys, but have that on top of your choice of a starter Pokemon. So you'd be able to pick Chikorita/Cyndaquil/Totodile and on top of that the egg Mr. Pokemon gives you would be this mysterious legendary Pokemon egg depending on your game.
 
Last edited:

Bolt Strike

Bringing the Thunder
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
5,998
Reaction score
4,864
Pronouns
He/Him
The only thing I want to see them do with Johto is a sequel or a Legends game. The way they've been approaching remakes lately, there's no way in hell they're surpassing HGSS, and probably aren't even going to come anywhere close to it. It's just going to be a GS copy/paste job. I'm sick of remakes like that. They're capable of doing much, much more with the remakes and instead they're tying one hand behind their back for "MUH NUSTAHLJUH!". Enough. I want to see what Johto would look like if it was built from the ground up in 2021, not what it looked like in 1999 with an HD coat of paint and a handful of minor QoL features.
 

Jimothy

Active Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
276
Reaction score
622
Okay, so first of all: I agree that Johto should be expected to be next in line before Unova for a remake or revisit.

As for what I want?

Not necessarily an LGPE2 or a Legends Celebi (though I'd take either), but something in-between. A singular version starring Celebi that actually pulls a bit from Ocarina of Time: two versions of the overworld (past and present) with a singular point (Ilex shrine) as the means by which to switch between the two.

The past is more-or-less contemporary to LA so characters from that game can return, the present is LGPE-esque in that it's not quite the same adventure you remember, and it brings Kris back in a way reminiscent of LGPE bringing back the lost Kanto female protagonist (and the battles against Red/Green/Blue further cement their starter choices from LGPE).

The map is expanded so we can actually reach the SinJoh ruins without teleporting. There's not much of a reason to have the Sevii Islands, but I'm inclined to add them as well.

As for artstyle, I quite like both LGPE and LA, so I'll take either or something new. Gameplay either further develops the new battle system from LA or is a new, original take on a Pokemon battle system. I do like LA's idea of making the trainer more involved and battles being in the overworld. I'd like to have abilities back, even if many of them need to be reworked or replaced to accommodate the new battle system. I don't need held items if abilities are back and I quite like the idea of stuff like Mega stones (as an example, I'm unsure if I'd put megas in this game, much as I like them) being made into key items.

Ideally, much the same as LGPE was able to use the Kanto Megas and Alolan forms that had been introduced, I'm hoping between LA and gen 9, a healthy amount of Johto monsters get new forms that can be used here. As well as new forms and a few new monsters to be added in this game. Also I would include all evolutionary relatives to any Kanto/Johto monsters.

Beyond that, however few Pokemon is necessary to allow for LGPE-style riding where you can ride pretty much anything you reasonably could, including surprising and unique rides like Snorlax. A tight roster also makes it more likely that the graphics and possible interactions could be closer to something like New Snap (I don't expect it to meet that level as Snap is singularly focused on looks/interactions and there's more going on here, but you get the idea).

I'd expand on LGPE's partner concept of always have a little buddy you dress up and hang out with in addition to your follow or ride Pokemon, and I'd like a decent selection here. Obviously the Johto babies lend themselves well to this concept, but hopefully more than just them. At the same time, I know you can only program in so many monsters to be dressed up in so many ways, but in my mind it should be that wherever possible, a Pokemon is either large and rideable or small and buddy-able. Of course there'd be a fair few that are in-between and only used for battling and following, but again, as much as possible, I would like to include these unique interactions.

I'm not sure what, but I'd like something new or different with the starters. Maybe instead of getting your starter from Elm, your first Pokemon is an egg brought by Celebi that can hatch into any of several monsters. Maybe your starter is an Eevee given to you by a visiting kimono girl. Maybe you choose between the classic starters, but their types are all switched around. I'm just spitballing here.

Storywise, expanding on Silver/Giovanni is a must, with Giovanni having more of a direct presence in the story. Maybe even throw in RR Giovanni as well, I'm a sucker for parallel universe stuff. Expand on Lance, Clair, and Blackthorn (dragon lore is cool) as well as the kimono girls and SinJoh. Give us Impostor Oak. Give us a reward for completing the Unown Dex (Unown with a Schooling-like ability?). Give us a water-type Lugia (I dunno, Diving Form).

Oh and use the HGSS design for Sabrina, with the crazy big bracelets. It's her best look.
 

Almonds

Lovely
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
14,649
Reaction score
4,553
If they ever do revisit Johto with the gym challenges, I seriously hope they properly promote Johto pokemon in gym battles. At the very least give Falkner a Hoothoot. Hoothoot is found in the early routes right next to New Bark Town. There's literally no excuse.
 

Nodqfan

Veteran Trainer
Joined
Apr 24, 2020
Messages
85
Reaction score
105
Pronouns
He/Him
If Johto does get remade again. I hope they fix the awful level curve because as much as I love HGSS the level difference late in the game is straight-up terrible.

Also, I don't know if ILCA will become the official designated remake studio for Pokemon or anything like that. Maybe they'll have different studios do the remakes when the time comes like Genius Sonority or Spike Chunsoft.
 

EmpoleonProd

Empoleon Master Trainer
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
1,341
Reaction score
1,035
The only thing I want to see them do with Johto is a sequel or a Legends game. The way they've been approaching remakes lately, there's no way in hell they're surpassing HGSS, and probably aren't even going to come anywhere close to it. It's just going to be a GS copy/paste job. I'm sick of remakes like that. They're capable of doing much, much more with the remakes and instead they're tying one hand behind their back for "MUH NUSTAHLJUH!". Enough. I want to see what Johto would look like if it was built from the ground up in 2021, not what it looked like in 1999 with an HD coat of paint and a handful of minor QoL features.

I'm glad you mentioned Legends because I do think Johto would make one of the greatest settings for a past era, lore-based game. It's definitely in the top half of regions for lore with Ecruteak City and the burned tower, I think it would be phenomenal to live through that event in-game in real time rather than be told about it or shown a few still shots. Legends: Ho-Oh just in name alone sounds like a fantastic game, so something along those lines for Johto would be cool. They could even tie into Sinnoh's lore by including the Sinjoh Ruins just as HGSS did, if they want to get a little ambitious.
 

Bolt Strike

Bringing the Thunder
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
5,998
Reaction score
4,864
Pronouns
He/Him
I'm glad you mentioned Legends because I do think Johto would make one of the greatest settings for a past era, lore-based game. It's definitely in the top half of regions for lore with Ecruteak City and the burned tower, I think it would be phenomenal to live through that event in-game in real time rather than be told about it or shown a few still shots. Legends: Ho-Oh just in name alone sounds like a fantastic game, so something along those lines for Johto would be cool. They could even tie into Sinnoh's lore by including the Sinjoh Ruins just as HGSS did, if they want to get a little ambitious.

I mean, I'd prefer a GS2 over Legends, Legends looks like it might be fairly empty in terms of locations/settlements and I'd really prefer an entry with modern technology so we can have modern QoL features, but a Legends game would still be acceptable. Legends seems to be taking a lot more liberties with the map design and the regional dex than other remakes. I think it'd be more of a Legends Celebi than a Legends Ho-oh, I don't see them making an entry based on one half of a mascot pair (unless they do dual versions like the main games and have a Legends Lugia as well, but I'm not sure they want to do that with Legends games).
 

EmpoleonProd

Empoleon Master Trainer
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
1,341
Reaction score
1,035
I mean, I'd prefer a GS2 over Legends, Legends looks like it might be fairly empty in terms of locations/settlements and I'd really prefer an entry with modern technology so we can have modern QoL features, but a Legends game would still be acceptable. Legends seems to be taking a lot more liberties with the map design and the regional dex than other remakes. I think it'd be more of a Legends Celebi than a Legends Ho-oh, I don't see them making an entry based on one half of a mascot pair (unless they do dual versions like the main games and have a Legends Lugia as well, but I'm not sure they want to do that with Legends games).

I get what you're saying but like any game series, I feel like Legends is a series that can grow and get better as they make more of them. I'm sure Legends: Arceus will have some kinks but we have to bare with them to grow the series. Also, I'm only saying Ho-Oh because Ho-Oh is the legendary most central to the lore of the Johto region, it literally reincarnated the legendary beasts, it just makes the most sense in my opinion. I think Sinnoh is only using Arceus since Arceus is the trio master of the original three Sinnoh mascots and is the most central Pokemon to Sinnoh lore, the same way Rayquaza is to Hoenn or Ho-Oh is to Johto.
 

Emmy

Cam Girl~
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Messages
1,419
Reaction score
3,240
It would honestly break my heart to see them announce a Gold/Silver remake only to see it turn out to be like BD/SP.

G/S/C and the remakes are among my absolute favourites in the franchise so I really don't want them touched if its not going to be an improvement.

I'd be fine with literally any other game taking place in Johto though, such as a Legends: Ho-Oh or whatever.
 

Almonds

Lovely
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
14,649
Reaction score
4,553
Also, I hope they do not get rid of the Rocket Executives for the sake of "being faithful." They were great additions to HGSS. I heard Archer makes an appearance in LGPE. So again, I hope they keep them in a potential Johto revisit.
 

Silktree

Not Dead
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
19,814
Reaction score
13,881
I'm going to have to see how Legends turns out before I can say anything about that. I have concerns.

There isn't too much to say about a remake, which I can do without. It should include the HGSS features (Pokeathlon, restored Kanto and at least the Battle Factory), but also the missing Crystal components (Kris, GS Ball and News Machine). The Safari/Go catching style should be optional (see Legends), and there should finally be more Johto representation in trainer teams and also in the wild (LGPE were pretty refreshing in this regard). Significant story changes are unlikely outside of the protagonists and rival (I'd honestly just disregard the LGPE precedent).

Not necessarily an LGPE2 or a Legends Celebi (though I'd take either), but something in-between. A singular version starring Celebi that actually pulls a bit from Ocarina of Time: two versions of the overworld (past and present) with a singular point (Ilex shrine) as the means by which to switch between the two.

The past is more-or-less contemporary to LA so characters from that game can return, the present is LGPE-esque in that it's not quite the same adventure you remember, and it brings Kris back in a way reminiscent of LGPE bringing back the lost Kanto female protagonist (and the battles against Red/Green/Blue further cement their starter choices from LGPE).
This is a nice idea, but it sounds like two games thrown into one package, which means that they're better off splitting them exactly as they did with BDSP and LA (unless that backfires).

Legends Celebi would pretty much have to include at least two eras, but that is not to say that each one would function as its own game. In all likelihood, one of them would be secondary and only feature some of the map for particular Pokemon and some story.
 
Last edited:

Emmy

Cam Girl~
Joined
Sep 8, 2019
Messages
1,419
Reaction score
3,240
Legends Celebi would pretty much have to include at least two eras, but that is not to say that each one would function as its own game. In all likelihood, one of them would be secondary and only feature some of the map for particular Pokemon and some story.
I'm pretty sure one of the later Yo-Kai Watch games did something similar to this where in addition to the normal areas, you could also travel to the past and meet the MC's ancestor as well as there being several specific Yokai that can only be found in the past. :unsure:
 

R1ke

D U C K
Joined
Sep 6, 2020
Messages
727
Reaction score
2,651
I'd like them to minimise faithful remakes nowadays. Kinda tired of how similar they have become to the original. Much rather they do something new, like a legends game or shake things up again. It's a smarter route that still pays homage to the originals, but allows more creativity and freedom with the game design.
 

Silktree

Not Dead
Joined
Mar 14, 2005
Messages
19,814
Reaction score
13,881
I'm pretty sure one of the later Yo-Kai Watch games did something similar to this where in addition to the normal areas, you could also travel to the past and meet the MC's ancestor as well as there being several specific Yokai that can only be found in the past. :unsure:
Yep. The main city was smaller in the past, though.

If they sacrificed Kanto, they could include two full versions of Johto. I have doubts about that being a popular move, and it wouldn't be what Jimothy suggested. An obvious idea for past Johto is that Ecruteak (like Kyoto) was more central than anywhere else in the two regions, but it'd be hard to demonstrate that without exploring Kanto at all.
 
Last edited:

EmpoleonProd

Empoleon Master Trainer
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
1,341
Reaction score
1,035
I definitely think Johto could benefit from receiving the LGPE treatment of massively reshuffling around the wild Pokemon and trainer rosters, I've spoken in the past about certain Gym Leaders having mostly, or even exclusively, Kanto teams, such as Falkner having Pidgey and Pidgeotto when a lineup like Murkrow and an underleveled Noctowl (which is obtainable below the evolution level in the wild so it makes sense here) would be a lot cooler. Pokémon like Houndour, Larvitar, and Misdreavus not being available until the postgame is also something that needs to be fixed. LGPE did an extremely good job of doing these things so I hope a Johto remake follows in its footsteps at least in that aspect.
 
Last edited:

Almonds

Lovely
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
14,649
Reaction score
4,553
I definitely think Johto could benefit from receiving the LGPE treatment of massively reshuffling around the wild Pokemon and trainer rosters, I've spoken in the past about certain Gym Leaders having mostly, or even exclusively, Kanto teams, such as Falkner having Pidgey and Pidgeotto when a lineup like Murrow and an underleveled Noctowl (which is obtainable below the evolution level in the wild so it makes sense here) would be a lot cooler. Pokémon like Houndour, Larvitar, and Misdreavus not being available until the postgame is also something that needs to be fixed. LGPE did an extremely good job of doing these things so I hope a Johto remake follows in its footsteps at least in that aspect.
Omg yes. Also, Karen should have a Tyranitar. Lance in Gen 1 had Dragonite, and Drake in Gen 3 had Salamance. The last E4 member having the pseudo-legendary is not out of the ordinary.
 

Bolt Strike

Bringing the Thunder
Joined
Mar 20, 2013
Messages
5,998
Reaction score
4,864
Pronouns
He/Him
Also, if they do a GS2, I'd like to see a Goldenrod Gym become a Fairy type gym with a new gym leader. There's so many good Fairy types in the Johto for them to show off, Granbull, Togetic, Azumarill, Clefable, and Wigglytuff would be solid options for gym Pokemon. Whitney and her infamous Miltank can still hang around, but in a different capacity. Maybe she could be battled somewhere else in the storyline or be promoted to Elite 4 or something. But with so many typical Goldenrod gym Pokemon being retyped to Fairy and Goldenrod's theme fitting Fairy type, it feels more natural for the gym to be Fairy type now.

I'd also like to see Bugsy moved to mid to late game as most of his options would be good for that point in the game. Can you imagine Bugsy having Pokemon like Scizor, Heracross, Forretress, or Yanmega on his roster? Technically he already had a roster like this in his HGSS rematch team, but it'd be a lot more impactful and challenging to have a team like this during the actual story.
 
Top Bottom