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Speculation Johto Remake Discussion (Johto Confirmed?!)

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The Johto games are personal favorites of mine but as there are already remakes of them the experience would need to be significantly enhanced a la the ROM Hack Ultra Shiny Gold Sigma for another to be relevant and intriguing even for me.
i.e the national dex which is included in the gym leader rosters and additional plot and
@Bolt Strike's suggestion to re-type Goldrenrod gym as Fairy-type is a smart one considering that Whitney already uses a Clefairy which is no longer a Normal-type. In Ultra Shiny Gold Sigma she's still considered a Normal-type gym leader but has a Sylveon that was a tad harder for me than her Miltank with an almost entirely illegal move set.

I'd be alright with a Johto LGPE but wild battles would need to be restored. I am not a fan of the pure Safari Zone/Go format, it makes grinding obnoxious.

I have a fairly strong theory as to what the titles to Johto remakes could be, those being Let's Go Pichu and Let's Go Cleffa.

Unless it's this.
I don't believe that would work. The baby class wasn't meant to be viable long-term and Pichu and Cleffa are possibly the most terrible Pokemon in the baby class. Neither could hold up for the duration of an entire game as gimmick Pokemon that can't be evolved.
Admittedly, I am not all that familiar with the Clefairy line as I haven't used it much but my experiences with Pichu have been nothing but obnoxious and I disagree that Pikachu and Clefairy as the franchise mascots need to be used as inspiration in Johto installments.

I feel it should be LG Merril and Snubble, the first two Johto Pokemon ever introduced. As such they're kinda the mascots of Johto. Remember all the Pikablu rumors in the first-gen? Pikablu was actually Merril.

I prefer not to get behind the new Legends format until I experience it but from what I have gathered about LA something of a cross between LE and Legends such as it being set in a past Johto with regional variants could be interesting.
 
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GhostLucario

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Honestly I wouldn't mind seeing Johto remade but please no Let's go or Legends.
Let's go are the only games I never bought and I'm not interested in playing them. I've never liked the Go mechanics, they are frustrating and just thinking about GF or ILCA doing another game with those make me roll my eyes. I did like the artstyle and the character design, so a re-remake with those assets would be ok. Just no Go catching mechanics please.

As for Legends I am growing less and less enthusiastic about the game with each reveal, I am even thinking of canceling my pre order. It just doesn't seem like my type of game, I never liked games that include crafting and resource managing (like Resident Evil with its limited space for items and being able to combine them to create new ones and the boxes, for example).

A BDSP style of re-remake would be fine for me as long as they improve on the pokémon selection, the level curve, exp scaling and the trainer rosters which you know BDSP barely did improve any of that but for ILCA's first time doing a complete game it was fine.
 

WhittneyFan03

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If Johto does get remade again. I hope they fix the awful level curve because as much as I love HGSS the level difference late in the game is straight-up terrible.

Also, I don't know if ILCA will become the official designated remake studio for Pokemon or anything like that. Maybe they'll have different studios do the remakes when the time comes like Genius Sonority or Spike Chunsoft.
i agree with you, they have the tech now, they should just put in a level scaler after morty and have it go up every time you fight trainers & other gym leaders, so that jasmine chuck and pryce arent all at the same level range, and so going from these 3 to clair isn't so drastic. also lower red's team, or at least they need to raise the levels of the kanto gym leaders, and pokemon in mount. silver like they did in HGSS
 

WhittneyFan03

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If Johto does get remade again. I hope they fix the awful level curve because as much as I love HGSS the level difference late in the game is straight-up terrible.

Also, I don't know if ILCA will become the official designated remake studio for Pokemon or anything like that. Maybe they'll have different studios do the remakes when the time comes like Genius Sonority or Spike Chunsoft.
i agree with you, they have the tech now, they should just put in a level scaler after morty and have it go up every time you fight trainers & other gym leaders, so that jasmine chuck and pryce arent all at the same level range, and so going from these 3 to clair isn't so drastic. also lower red's team, or at least they need to raise the levels of the kanto gym leaders, and pokemon in mount. silver like they did in HGSS
 

henrymidfields

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You know what? Even in single-region games, we never really used the entire levels for assigning NPC trainer difficulties. Johto's E4 had the lowest levels, obstensibly because of the longer game, but most other regions only have trainer Pokemon's levels up to around 60-65 until the Champion. BW's final boss Ghetsis only had 50-55 at highest, and that's also with only one region. I've never seen cases with trainers using Level 70+ aside from Red.

I wonder why HGSS Kanto trainers in general and gym leaders in particular haven't had Lv 50-60+ Pokemon. Or Mt Silver not having wild Pokemon with higher levels. It's not exactly rocket science to adjust levels, is it?
 
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FelipePR

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You know what? Even in single-region games, we never really used the entire levels for assigning NPC trainer difficulties. Johto's E4 had the lowest levels, obstensibly because of the longer game, but most other regions only have trainer Pokemon's levels up to around 60-65 until the Champion. BW's final boss Ghetsis only had 50-55 at highest, and that's also with only one region. I've never seen cases with trainers using Level 70+ aside from Red.

-Several trainers has Pokémon with level 70+ besides Red, some of them being Lance, Cynthia, Steven, Lucian... in the late game. Now, if you mention Pokémons with level above 80, you're right, if you disregard BDSP games. Honestly, they "nerfed" the Kanto Gym trainers and leaders so that Red ultimately poses a real challenge to the player, but gameplaywise, it wasn't a good choice as it made several battles pointless.

i agree with you, they have the tech now, they should just put in a level scaler after morty and have it go up every time you fight trainers & other gym leaders, so that jasmine chuck and pryce arent all at the same level range, and so going from these 3 to clair isn't so drastic. also lower red's team, or at least they need to raise the levels of the kanto gym leaders, and pokemon in mount. silver like they did in HGSS

- Well, jasmine battle is straightforward after chuck, there's no reason for there to be a relevant level difference between the two. For the rest, I agree, Pryce should be buffed, as well as the Kanto leaders and especially the elite four rematches, with the exception of Lance.

- The level curve/difference issue is not the result of any technical limitation, it is simply the result of poor choices on the part of the producers.
 
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JohtonianZoroark

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Definitely on board with Legends: Celebi, but if the choice is between LGPE and BDSP as the basis for Johto remakes, I guess I have to choose the former…I think the Gen IV remakes were a waste of time for everyone involved, so any game that actually expands upon the foundation of the original is better than a “faithful” remake of a game that had plenty of issues upon release.

Also, if it IS Legends: Celebi, I’d prefer that it be set in the future, or between the present and future, but not the past. We’ve now seen both a game about a corner of the Pokémon world as it was many years ago AND at least one movie and episode of the anime concerning Celebi specifically going back to that time period. Let’s find out what’s ahead for once! What becomes of Johto a century in the future? The region already feels like a blast from the past, what would it be like in an even more modern age?
 

henrymidfields

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-Several trainers has Pokémon with level 70+ besides Red, some of them being Lance, Cynthia, Steven, Lucian... in the late game. Now, if you mention Pokémons with level above 80, you're right, if you disregard BDSP games. Honestly, they "nerfed" the Kanto Gym trainers and leaders so that Red ultimately poses a real challenge to the player, but gameplaywise, it wasn't a good choice as it made several battles pointless.
I'd prefer to see a more competitive movepool that works well with the Pokemon and teammates if I want a challenge. Red as it currently stands in GSC/HGSS looks more like a boss that involves a merely tedious grindfest than a genuinely difficult one.
 

Gengarzilla

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If any region should get revisited next, I'd say it should be Unova.
Not as a remake though. Gen 4's original games was honestly the point where remakes hit a wall and stopped feeling like "enhanced improvements", as the reception to BDSP made very clear.

No, I want to see Legends: Kyurem. I really want to dive deep into Unova's past like we did Sinnoh and similarly give light to its mythos. I would love to see "Black" and "White" merge, to finally witness Kyurem depicted in its ultimate prime, back before the aspects later known as Reshiram and Zekrom would split off into their own independent beings. The thought of documenting all of this and other Gen V legendary Pokémon into Unova's first Pokédex is honestly quite exciting, rather more so than anything relating to Johto.
 
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KJNanika

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I don't want a BDSP-style remake for the Johto games, since the biggest problem with the originals (and first remakes) were that the NPCs' rosters didn't use enough new Pokemon (compared to species also found in Kanto)

A Let's Go-style remake, however, I wouldn't mind so much

Either way, I'll probably stick to HeartGold version (and get the eShop version of Crystal before that goes away), since I never picked up BDSP because I already had Pearl (and was way more interested in PLA anyway)
 

EmpoleonProd

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I don't want a BDSP-style remake for the Johto games, since the biggest problem with the originals (and first remakes) were that the NPCs' rosters didn't use enough new Pokemon (compared to species also found in Kanto)

A Let's Go-style remake, however, I wouldn't mind so much

Either way, I'll probably stick to HeartGold version (and get the eShop version of Crystal before that goes away), since I never picked up BDSP because I already had Pearl (and was way more interested in PLA anyway)
I like how now after BDSP, people would rather have LGPE-style remakes lol, a year ago this would be unheard of. Personally I loved the graphics and artstyle of LGPE, they were by far the best-looking Pokemon games and still debatably are. I'm genuinely surprised BDSP weren't built on the LGPE engine. It's commonplace for them to use another game's engine as a base to make the next one, i.e. DP being used to make HGSS. So it would've made sense to take the grid-like map structure and semi-chibi characters present in LGPE for the next remake as well, those being BDSP.
 

Blanc

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I'm genuinely surprised BDSP weren't built on the LGPE engine. It's commonplace for them to use another game's engine as a base to make the next one, i.e. DP being used to make HGSS. So it would've made sense to take the grid-like map structure and semi-chibi characters present in LGPE for the next remake as well, those being BDSP.
This is probably because BDSP was outsourced to another company, namely ILCA games and constructed on (surprisingly) the Unity engine. iirc Gamefreak has said in the past they don’t give out their engine to anyone else either (as far as I recall), so it makes sense ILCA had to make do and recreate what they could.
 

Bolt Strike

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Honestly choosing between a BDSP and LGPE style remake is like choosing between getting slapped upside the head or punched in the chest, neither option is particularly appealing. I want either a BW2-sequel, a Legends style reimagining, a straight port of the original priced appropriately (like, $30 or less), or nothing. I'm not paying $60 for a game that's the same or worse than the original experience which could practically run on a calculator, if I'm paying $60 for a revisit to an old region I want something that feels like it's remotely close to what SwSh and LA could offer.
 
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RileyXY1

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I believe that we're very likely going to get another set of Johto remakes after SV. I hope that they are not like BDSP and instead include all kinds of mechanics from the later gens, including Terastal.
 

Nodqfan

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If Gen 2 does get another remake I hope the level curve wild Pokemon and NPC Trainers is better than it was in HGSS.
 

Daenerys

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If Gen 2 does get another remake I hope the level curve wild Pokemon and NPC Trainers is better than it was in HGSS.
It won't be imo. If GF didn't do that in HG/SS despite the leveling curve being one of the biggest complaints that folks had about G/S/C, I don't see why they'd listen now.
 
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