Speculation Johto Remake Discussion (Johto Confirmed?!)

[EmpoleonProd]

Yeah. They haven't made a game set in the Johto region since 2009, which was 13 years ago (I am not counting the VC releases for this statistic). This gap is larger than the gap between RG and FRLG (8 years), GS and HGSS (10 years) and RS and ORAS (12 years). The longest gap between revisits was between FRLG and LGPE, at 14 years. We've gone only 10 years since we've last seen Unova (in BW2). Johto and Unova are also the only regions that cannot be played in full 3D. Kanto can through LGPE, Hoenn through ORAS, Sinnoh through BDSP, and Kalos-onwards are naturally made in full 3D. Johto is just plainly the most out of date region right now, and as such it is the most deserving of a remake right now.

This exactly. At some point, every region will be made playable in full 3D, Johto and Unova are the obvious contenders next in line.

As for Nintendo moving on from the Switch, personally I doubt it, I think it's more likely we see a Switch Pro or some evolution of the system rather than a complete departure from it. The Switch is still a very successful system and the problems it does have are not problems that require a brand new system to solve it, so I think the Switch is here to stay at least for the forseeable future. I think eventually, every region will be made playable on the Switch or Switch Pro or whatever the next system may end up being.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Pokemon is well known for continuing to support systems well into the end of their lifespans. Emerald came out one year after the DS launched, BW2 came out one year after the 3DS launched, and USUM released in the year of the Switch's launch. Basically, main series games are never released in the year of a new console's launch, and I don't know if this will change.

Again, this is a pattern, not a guarantee. Patterns can be broken at any time.

Also, there's still time for (although I'm not sure this is going to end up happening) the successor to release Holiday 2023 and the first Pokemon game on Switch to release on 2024. That would satisfy the pattern of Pokemon releasing a new game (although in this case I think the "game" is SV DLC) when Nintendo is moving on to next gen hardware.

As for Nintendo moving on from the Switch, personally I doubt it, I think it's more likely we see a Switch Pro or some evolution of the system rather than a complete departure from it. The Switch is still a very successful system and the problems it does have are not problems that require a brand new system to solve it, so I think the Switch is here to stay at least for the forseeable future.

The Switch's success is one argument against a successor releasing sometime soon, but at the same time, success is fleeting (just look at how hard Nintendo crashed with the Wii U after the success of the Wii) and new hardware isn't just about "solving problems" as much as having something more powerful to market as the hot new thing. The Switch has done tremendously well, but third party developers are wanting to move on to stronger hardware like the PS5 and Xbox Series X and the more time goes on, the more they'll want to make games that take advantage of those platforms and leave the Switch behind. And there's even been a few complaints that some recent games like Splatoon 3 might be reaching the limits of what the Switch can do.

Next gen =/= complete departure from the branding and form factor. I fully expect the next gen device to be a variant of the Switch, similar to what the GBA and GBC were for the GB or the 3DS was for the DS. But those games were entirely new generations of hardware with new games designed to take advantage of the upgraded hardware, and that's what I suspect we're getting soon (I would say within the next 3 years at the latest).

I think eventually, every region will be made playable on the Switch or Switch Pro or whatever the next system may end up being.

Probably not feasible without a couple of things happening:

1. the next gen hardware is backwards compatible with the Switch and can play the Switch Pokemon games
2. NSO carries over to next gen instead of starting over with something else and having to wait 5 years for the same consoles we've had for multiple generations to be added back.

With the second one, we'd have Kanto, Sinnoh, Galar, and Paldea right off the bat. Depending on what happens between now and next gen that might also include Johto and Unova. Then it would just be a matter of porting Hoenn to NSO and remaking Kalos and Alola and you've got it the entire back catalogue of regions + the new one(s) they introduce that gen.

If they don't have both of those though then no, there'd be waaaaay too many regions to re-release them all in just 5-7 years.

 

[EmpoleonProd]

The same way the Xbox Series and PS5 are backwards compatible with all Xbox One/PS4 games, I imagine any Switch successor would likely be the same, just the Switch, but a lot better.

 

[Defiant]

2023 - SV DLC
2024 - Let's Go Johto
2025 - Gen 10 (maybe slight delay until Feb 27th 2026 - 30th anniversary)

 

[RileyXY1]

2023 - SV DLC
2024 - Let's Go Johto
2025 - Gen 10 (maybe slight delay until Feb 27th 2026 - 30th anniversary)

I'm not expecting any more Let's Go games. I believe that LGPE itself was a one-off designed to help bring Pokemon GO players into the main series.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I'm not expecting any more Let's Go games. I believe that LGPE itself was a one-off designed to help bring Pokemon GO players into the main series.

Doubly so because Game Freak seems to have changed the direction they want the series to go in over the course of the Switch. Initially they seem to have thought mobile gameplay was the way to go, but after seeing BotW's success they want Pokemon to be open world. If they do another game like LGPE to try and attract players to a next gen console before the next gen game is ready it'll probably be something that better fits their current philosophy. Another Legends game might be a good candidate for this.

 

[prog rocker]

I hope not.

I love Pokémon, so I want it to keep being that one game that brings me peace, not stress.

Also, we really need more normal RPGs in the market.

All of this is my opinion, though. I don't want those RPGs to turn into an indie-only genre.

 

[team_____grunt]

I think it would be cool if they do a pokemon legends in Johto.

 

[RileyXY1]

I think that we'll get a Johto remake in 2024, and it might not be a BDSP-esque faithful remake.

 

[Defiant]

I think that we'll get a Johto remake in 2024, and it might not be a BDSP-esque faithful remake.

Would have to be Let's Go surely?

GSC was a sequel to RBY.
HGSS was a sequel to FRLG
LG2J would be a sequel to LGPE

As you say a BDSP faithful remake just wouldn't work especially as the games already been remade into HGSS.

 

[RileyXY1]

Would have to be Let's Go surely?

GSC was a sequel to RBY.
HGSS was a sequel to FRLG
LG2J would be a sequel to LGPE

As you say a BDSP faithful remake just wouldn't work especially as the games already been remade into HGSS.

I believe that LGPE was a one-off designed to help bring Pokemon GO players into the main series. I don't think that any more Let's Go titles will be made.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Would have to be Let's Go surely?

GSC was a sequel to RBY.
HGSS was a sequel to FRLG
LG2J would be a sequel to LGPE

As you say a BDSP faithful remake just wouldn't work especially as the games already been remade into HGSS.

Not necessarily. There's a lot of things they could do with Johto that aren't BDSP or LGPE styled remakes. They could do a Legends Johto. They could do a GS2. They could just do NSO ports of GSC. They could come up with something completely different that we're not even thinking of.

I agree with the notion that LGPE was a one off. They seem to have changed their design philosophy since then, back when they were developing LGPE they thought the Switch would fail and that mobile style gameplay was all people wanted. Now they've eaten Murkrow on that prediction. The Switch is wildly successful because of BotW and other similar open world games and now Game Freak has followed suit.

So I don't think they're interested in continuing the Let's Go gameplay. It was designed for a mobile audience that doesn't seem to care much about the Switch, the fanbase didn't really grow because of it, and it caused controversy among core fans that didn't want mobile gameplay pervading the main series. It's brought some benefits to the series, but they've folded them into other games that better appeal to the Switch's userbase (adding overworld encounters to SwSh, LA, and SV, letting you aim and throw Poke Balls outside battle with the control stick instead of motion controls in LA and SV, etc.). If they're not doing a BDSP style remake for Johto, it's probably either going to be an NSO port or some kind of reimagining (whether it's Legends style or something else). Possibly even both.

 

[SushiBurrito]

I dunno Let's Go Pikachu and Eevee worked I guess as remakes of Pokemon Yellow and were trying to attract a Pokemon Go audience.

Heart Gold and Soul Silver already incorporated elements of Crystal into its story so idk what another remake would accomplish?

I'd rather they just remake Black and White.

 

[skynerel]

I’m not really interested in Johto remakes, but if they do, they might as well add a real story this time around, plus a style similar to SW/SH/Legends.

 

[FelipePR]

I’m not really interested in Johto remakes, but if they do, they might as well add a real story this time around, plus a style similar to SW/SH/Legends.

- Yes, and it wouldn't be too difficult at all, because these games barely have stories too.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I’m not really interested in Johto remakes, but if they do, they might as well add a real story this time around, plus a style similar to SW/SH/Legends.

They're probably not going to make a game similar to SwSh, LA, or SV unless it's a Legends style reimagining. It's too drastic a change for a remake and would feel like a completely different game, similarly to how LA was ancient Sinnoh but was almost completely unrecognizable to DPPt.

Really, I think a reimagining in the vein of LA is needed. There's far too much about Johto that is heavily outdated. The region design is archaic because of the GB's limitations and looks like a child's LEGO set. The region is too linear and blocky, it's too short and not scaled well to make it feel sufficiently large, and it's too flat in areas that should feel mountainous such as Mt. Mortar, Rt. 45/46, and the routes leading to Mt. Silver (Mt. Silver itself was fixed with the redesign in HGSS, but Routes 26-28 should feel a bit more mountainous too) because the only method they had to convey elevation was tons of ledges. The Johto Dex is way too unvaried and lacking in certain rare types, especially Ghost and Dragon which only have 2 families. It could use a massive expansion with families from newer generations with a dex resembling some of the more modern regional dexes that have 300-400. And yes, as you mention, the story is practically nonexistent. It feels like Team Rocket does nothing except cause trouble in random places. There's little sense of a coherent, overarching narrative (they do test the use of radio waves on the Magikarp in Lake of Rage to evolve them which vaguely relates to the Radio Tower takeover, and an NPC gives some short lore about Lugia/Ho-oh but that's it). This is far more than what can be accomplished in a remake. A remake needs to stick to the script to some degree to recreate the experience. Here the script needs to be rewritten, which is where you need a reimagining to make it feel not like the Johto we know, but a Johto that's better than we could've imagined in 1999.

That being said, I'm thinking maybe a Legends Johto specifically may not be the best way. Legends takes place in the past and the region feels too empty and unsettled. Here I think it might be better to have something more modern like SV. Make it a sequel instead, maybe one that takes place 20 years after GSC so it's in the present day. Let us see fully developed cities like Violet, Goldenrod, Ecruteak, and Olivine in the present day and present day technology like the Pokegear (but modernized to look and feel more like a Rotom Phone). Let us explore the whole region in open world like SV instead of disjointed areas in LA. They can make it a spiritual successor to LA and bring back some of the mechanics people want to see return such as throwing Poke Balls and being attacked by Pokemon in the overworld too to make it the best of both worlds, but I think a modern experience would feel more alive and populated than another past Johto.

 

[prog rocker]

I guess this is why I feel kinda disconnected from modern games...

I do sincerely miss the old formula. I don't want BDSP to be the last games like that...

Sorry for repeating myself, but after seeing what games won awards recently, I feel the future is kinda grim for people like me.

 

[Defiant]

I guess this is why I feel kinda disconnected from modern games...

I do sincerely miss the old formula. I don't want BDSP to be the last games like that...

Sorry for repeating myself, but after seeing what games won awards recently, I feel the future is kinda grim for people like me.

Agree with you completely. I get that a lot of people love open world games, but for many it almost seems to be fact that open world is better than a story based formulaic approach.

I get the need to do something different, but now it feels like we're always doing something different.

ScaVio is fully open world
SwSh added the wild area and took out the elite four.
SuMo replaced gyms, albeit with something similar.

Also feel the same way about Legend of Zelda, I see why Breath of the Wild is so groundbreaking, but I really hope that Skyward Sword isn't the last ever formula story based 3d Zelda, but 10 years on, it's looking like it is.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Agree with you completely. I get that a lot of people love open world games, but for many it almost seems to be fact that open world is better than a story based formulaic approach.

I get the need to do something different, but now it feels like we're always doing something different.

ScaVio is fully open world
SwSh added the wild area and took out the elite four.
SuMo replaced gyms, albeit with something similar.

Also feel the same way about Legend of Zelda, I see why Breath of the Wild is so groundbreaking, but I really hope that Skyward Sword isn't the last ever formula story based 3d Zelda, but 10 years on, it's looking like it is.

To be fair, storylines can be told in any entertainment medium (books, comics, TV, movies). Video games are the only medium where you can interact with the world of the story. So it makes sense that many might value gameplay over story and consider a linear, formulaic story an impediment to the freedom to interact with the game world in whatever way they want. You guys talk about feeling disconnected from the modern, open area games, well while you guys may have been enjoying Gens 5-7 and their linear story based experiences, I was feeling similarly disconnected from that era of the series. They moved away from the freedom and exploration of some of the older games (especially Gens 3 and 4) in favor of scripted adventures that gave the player little agency, and I was legit considering quitting the series during that era myself, those games were clearly not made for me. But BotW inspiring Game Freak to move in the direction they did for SwSh, LA, and SV felt like more of a return to form and even an evolution in some ways for those older, more explorable games I enjoyed more.

That being said, I don't think the shoe should simply be on the other foot and I could see the merit in keeping some story based linear games so that people like you can still enjoy the series. But it's not that compatible with the open world approach many want. I think what they'll need to do is have two separate branches of the series to satisfy both sides. They could alternate between open world games and linear story based games to keep both sides happy. And there's signs that they might already do that, at least with the remakes. That's how they handled Sinnoh remakes, with the traditional linear based storyline of BDSP and the ambitious, open area gameplay of LA. That's probably how they'll handle all remakes going forward too, given the success and positive reception behind LA. If they could go a bit further though and extend that to more than just remakes though, then they might be able to better satisfy both sides.

 

[Defiant]

To be fair, storylines can be told in any entertainment medium (books, comics, TV, movies). Video games are the only medium where you can interact with the world of the story. So it makes sense that many might value gameplay over story and consider a linear, formulaic story an impediment to the freedom to interact with the game world in whatever way they want. You guys talk about feeling disconnected from the modern, open area games, well while you guys may have been enjoying Gens 5-7 and their linear story based experiences, I was feeling similarly disconnected from that era of the series. They moved away from the freedom and exploration of some of the older games (especially Gens 3 and 4) in favor of scripted adventures that gave the player little agency, and I was legit considering quitting the series during that era myself, those games were clearly not made for me. But BotW inspiring Game Freak to move in the direction they did for SwSh, LA, and SV felt like more of a return to form and even an evolution in some ways for those older, more explorable games I enjoyed more.

That being said, I don't think the shoe should simply be on the other foot and I could see the merit in keeping some story based linear games so that people like you can still enjoy the series. But it's not that compatible with the open world approach many want. I think what they'll need to do is have two separate branches of the series to satisfy both sides. They could alternate between open world games and linear story based games to keep both sides happy. And there's signs that they might already do that, at least with the remakes. That's how they handled Sinnoh remakes, with the traditional linear based storyline of BDSP and the ambitious, open area gameplay of LA. That's probably how they'll handle all remakes going forward too, given the success and positive reception behind LA. If they could go a bit further though and extend that to more than just remakes though, then they might be able to better satisfy both sides.

Another reason I think Gen 2 and their remakes are the best.
Set path through Johto, then you get to Kanto and explore it freely and do the gyms any order etc