DISCUSSION: Journey Fic Discussion

[Jaypom]

When it does come to teams for journey's though, I think it's best to make sure a Pokemon has it's own personality. A Pokemon shouldn't sit on a team if it acts as a character.

 

[Greninjaman]

If that's what works for you, then it works for you.

 

[InfiniteBakuphoon]

@Greninjaman
I have my own little perspective on that subject matter myself. Most likely because of the inspiration that I have from the anime - where character development for the Pokémon is pretty important - I almost subconsciously consider Pokémon - in a very general sense - to have a similar level of emotional complexity to humans, or at the very least enough to be considered more than simple animals with only relatively basic feelings and desires. To me, they're not just superpowered pets that will do whatever you say just because you caught it in a Poké Ball or have eight Gym badges... they have feelings, dreams, loves and hates, and philosophies that define them and drive what they do... just like with humans. And while this point is admittedly a highly debatable one if you're more into the game canon vs. the anime one, I think that the more descriptive and narrative nature of fanfic vs. the more mechanical and "blank-slate" nature of the games kind of complicates things a little bit. A reader who's more into the anime canon, for instance, may consider a less definitive approach to characterizing Pokémon à la the games as closer to under-characterization than one that actually reflects what they believe to be the "true nature" of Pokémon (like me writing this post right now, actually... haha). And yet, someone who's more into the game canon may actually agree with that view if they're one to create personalities for their Pokémon or otherwise project traditionally "human" qualities onto them because, again, the games are somewhat of a blank slate when it comes to Pokémon... they could be relatively simple animals just as easily as they could be highly intelligent and complicated creatures.

With all of the above caveats noted, however, I have to say that as someone with a more anime-oriented view on Pokémon, I believe that Pokémon should be considered equal to humans as far as narrative importance goes. Because if we can focus on the emotions and thoughts of the human protagonists, why shouldn't we do the same with those of Pokémon that - Poké-speak and individual species quirks aside - are very arguably similar to them in the ways that matter most in a story? And as characters that are narratively important, it goes without saying that a Pokémon's characterization should reflect that importance, and that it shouldn't be marginalized or oversimplified just because the character in question is a Pokémon.

That said, things can easily get kind of ridiculous if you apply that philosophy too liberally. Consider, for instance, that if you have three main characters and they all have six Pokémon, then that's 18 Pokémon to consider both individual character arcs and roles in the overall plot for, on top of those for their trainers and everyone else in the story! Given the inherent frustration potential in that, I've been thinking - for the sake of sanity if nothing else - that maybe there should be around two or three Pokémon in the party that are "main focus" Pokémon who will have character development and narrative prominence on the same level as the humans that they travel with. The other Pokémon will still matter, of course, but their development will necessarily be rendered in broader strokes compared to the others, or will perhaps be slower and less eventful until a time comes in the story where they can have their "day in the limelight", so to speak, and really come into their own as characters.

Overall:
If you're writing in the anime canon, try to flesh out your Pokémon as much as you reasonably can. Ideally, flesh them out regardless of which canon you're writing in, but realistically, do whatever you feel is most compatible with your own views on Pokémon and - perhaps most importantly - with the story that you're trying to tell.

 

[Greninjaman]

@Greninjaman
I have my own little perspective on that subject matter myself. Most likely because of the inspiration that I have from the anime - where character development for the Pokémon is pretty important - I almost subconsciously consider Pokémon - in a very general sense - to have a similar level of emotional complexity to humans, or at the very least enough to be considered more than simple animals with only relatively basic feelings and desires. To me, they're not just superpowered pets that will do whatever you say just because you caught it in a Poké Ball or have eight Gym badges... they have feelings, dreams, loves and hates, and philosophies that define them and drive what they do... just like with humans. And while this point is admittedly a highly debatable one if you're more into the game canon vs. the anime one, I think that the more descriptive and narrative nature of fanfic vs. the more mechanical and "blank-slate" nature of the games kind of complicates things a little bit. A reader who's more into the anime canon, for instance, may consider a less definitive approach to characterizing Pokémon à la the games as closer to under-characterization than one that actually reflects what they believe to be the "true nature" of Pokémon (like me writing this post right now, actually... haha). And yet, someone who's more into the game canon may actually agree with that view if they're one to create personalities for their Pokémon or otherwise project traditionally "human" qualities onto them because, again, the games are somewhat of a blank slate when it comes to Pokémon... they could be relatively simple animals just as easily as they could be highly intelligent and complicated creatures.

With all of the above caveats noted, however, I have to say that as someone with a more anime-oriented view on Pokémon, I believe that Pokémon should be considered equal to humans as far as narrative importance goes. Because if we can focus on the emotions and thoughts of the human protagonists, why shouldn't we do the same with those of Pokémon that - Poké-speak and individual species quirks aside - are very arguably similar to them in the ways that matter most in a story? And as characters that are narratively important, it goes without saying that a Pokémon's characterization should reflect that importance, and that it shouldn't be marginalized or oversimplified just because the character in question is a Pokémon.

That said, things can easily get kind of ridiculous if you apply that philosophy too liberally. Consider, for instance, that if you have three main characters and they all have six Pokémon, then that's 18 Pokémon to consider both individual character arcs and roles in the overall plot for, on top of those for their trainers and everyone else in the story! Given the inherent frustration potential in that, I've been thinking - for the sake of sanity if nothing else - that maybe there should be around two or three Pokémon in the party that are "main focus" Pokémon who will have character development and narrative prominence on the same level as the humans that they travel with. The other Pokémon will still matter, of course, but their development will necessarily be rendered in broader strokes compared to the others, or will perhaps be slower and less eventful until a time comes in the story where they can have their "day in the limelight", so to speak, and really come into their own as characters.

Overall:
If you're writing in the anime canon, try to flesh out your Pokémon as much as you reasonably can. Ideally, flesh them out regardless of which canon you're writing in, but realistically, do whatever you feel is most compatible with your own views on Pokémon and - perhaps most importantly - with the story that you're trying to tell.

I agree with you on that. the more chatacters you have, the harder it would be to give each Pokemon character development.

 

[Iggy]

I agree with you on that. the more chatacters you have, the harder it would be to give each Pokemon character development.

True. You could also have it depend on the specie. A Caterpie or a Wurmple with the deep complexities of a human is just absurd. >90% just squeaks and acts irritating, nicely dovetailing with the predicable cardboard characters of the anime. And when I say ">90%" I certainly acknowledge exceptions, rare as they are. I would apply a more developed (or should I say evolved) psychological and emotional depth to fully evolved Pokemon (Blastoise, Tyranitar, and of course the mythical ones and legendaries).

 

[Beth Pavell]

I dunno, a caterpie from {some rise by sin} is one of my favourite characters and a lynchpin of the story. That example does go to show that you need time and narrative space to build a character, regardless of whether they're human or a pokémon

 

[Greninjaman]

I agree with Beth on this. If a Pokemon is going to be on the team, then it should have some develpment, even if it's just a Caterpie or a Wurmple.

 

[diamondpearl876]

Gonna note that giving a Pokémon development, even if they have the intelligence/emotional capacity of humans, doesn't necessarily have to involve allowing them to speak and be understood clearly by humans. I've seen a lot of people refer to Pokémon who talk as more "in depth" and "developed" than those who don't talk over the years. Even if the Pokémon being able to talk isn't a reason for readers say that, dialogue is just way more obvious and telling than narration is most of the time, so I have no doubt that the lack of a language barrier factors into their claims. There's ways to portray non-talking Pokémon through body language, actions in and outside of battle, etc. Yeah, it takes more practice than dialogue and balancing subtlety to make sure readers pick up on things is difficult, but it can be done.

 

[CrystaI]

After someone mentioned in this thread, I aroused a doubt of why every main characters must hold 6 handheld pokemons?

It is justifiable for trainer characters tended to enter the league provided that having at least 6 pokemons is one compulsory prerequisite to gain entrance, hence trainer character shall have that unspoken essentiality to catch that many during one's journey, regardless of do they like or wanted that specific pokemon. But if that trainer is not entering the league? Or if the character is not trainer but others like coordinator or breeder or researcher or whatever else? Or at the very fundamental, if there is no such prerequisite to hold at least 6 pokemons in order to enter the league?

If we look at the game-verse, the number of people holding 6 pokemons are really countable with one's finger, even including the cases of when those NPCs leveled up by challenging them again and again (Of course excluding the case of those generic trainers one could battle in the battle facilities). Also do not forget, if player's team is indeed that strong enough, one can speed through the league with only one single pokemon. In the anime-verse, well I guess we could assume every league participants hold at least 6 pokemons, but yet, most of the time it is only starting from quarterfinal the trainer shall allowed to use all of their 6 pokemons. If including that outrageous Cameron match of Unova League, despite it was set to be 6vs6, the battle still conducted finely(?) despite one side is short of one handheld (on top of that he won that match!!!).

When it comes to the fanfic...... maybe it is really just out of follow-the-canon-setting habit, I do tended to have my protagonist eventually obtain at least 6 pokemons before reaching the league, and because I incorporated that handheld prerequisite, hence my protagonist knows they needed to have 6 pokemons before reaching the league. But are their handheld pokemons all that important character-wise? To be honest, I personally feel 6 is a bit over-capacity. Out of the 6(x2) handheld I planned to let two of my main characters have, there will always be one on each side which I struggled to develop it into an outstanding meaningful character (this has nothing to do with its strength in battle, mind you). Other than having 6 as a mere norm for battle purpose, there isn't really much in terms of story purpose. One of my two main characters is not even fond of this league prerequisite of at least 6 handheld pokemons, as he is the kind of person that denies a pokemon to follow him shall that pokemon is not 200% deadset determined to do so, making him never ever "catches" a pokemon as this action is against their will. Although his attempt and struggle to force a "catch" is one plot I planned to write, but the pokemon itself is unnecessary for him personally.

That's why, other than the two protagonists, I don't planned any other main characters or supporting characters to hold that many pokemons. Even if some specific experienced trainer technically do hold six upon introduction, I'm not planning to show every one of them immediately (and because it is in-universally not wise at all to let other people know your cards, shall one is planned to have a battle afterward).

 

[Greninjaman]

Speaking of character develpment of Pokemon, if one were to go the anime route and have the protagonist move on to the next region, what would justify (narrativly and logically) leaving one's Pokemon behind in order to create a team with Pokemon found in that region (Like Ash does in the anime starting with Hoenn).

 

[Beth Pavell]

My attitude is rather to either go for trying to give all pokémon characters some sort of personality, or none.

True, there's no particular reason why you have to go for the notional maximum of six, and indeed fewer than that will give you more breathing space to develop each one. And in this sense it's no different to any story with a lot of characters.

All that being said, some sort of "personality" can be a broad concept. There's nothing wrong with supporting characters being shallower and less rounded than the main characters, whether they're pokémon or humans

 

[InfiniteBakuphoon]

@CrystaI
I've actually been having a dilemma somewhat related to that regarding the protagonist's Pokémon in one of my story ideas. Namely because said story idea takes place in Johto, and most crucially during a time when there were only 251 known Pokémon. Which of course limits the pool of Pokémon available to only Kanto and Johto Pokémon, as opposed to even the expanded pool from the HGSS era, let alone the nearly one thousand Pokémon we have today. Additionally, I want to avoid giving my protagonist the same kind of Pokémon that Ash from the anime had while he was in Johto (including what would have otherwise been obvious choices like Noctowl or one of the Johto starters), as well as the same kind of Pokémon stereotypically associated with the Johto game protagonists (like Donphan or Marill, two more obvious choices), which of course limits the pool even further. The current way that I have to somewhat "fix" this potential problem is to simply have the protagonist have three or four Pokémon in his party instead of six, with the narrative excuse reason being that he would rather spend time raising a few extremely well-raised Pokémon versus six somewhat well-raised ones. Which is all well and good for battling Gym Leaders and the like... but guess what happens when he reaches the League? Yep, not enough Pokémon for the full battle matchups. Not good!

To address that problem when the League starts, one idea I've been thinking about was to have the protagonist "borrow" two or three Pokémon from his traveling companions in order to meet the six-Pokémon requirement. There are plenty of opportunities for drama here: because the borrowed Pokémon are not actually his, the level of trust and understanding between him and the borrowed Pokémon is obviously going to be very different compared to the relationship between him and his actual Pokémon, let alone compared to that between the borrowed Pokémon and their actual trainers! And this would likely be true even if the borrowed Pokémon were on friendly terms with the protagonist earlier, outside of the context of battle. There could be potential there to explore the differences in relationship dynamics between a Pokémon and their human friend versus a Pokémon and their human trainer. And of course, there are the more obvious questions like: would a Pokémon listen to a completely new trainer without question just because they're friends, or just because their original trainer told them to do so? And even if they did, how would the relative lack of experience and understanding between the new trainer and their borrowed Pokémon affect their ability to battle and communicate effectively?

 

[Greninjaman]

@CrystaI
I've actually been having a dilemma somewhat related to that regarding the protagonist's Pokémon in one of my story ideas. Namely because said story idea takes place in Johto, and most crucially during a time where there were only 251 known Pokémon. Which of course limits the pool of Pokémon available to only Kanto and Johto Pokémon, as opposed to even the expanded pool from the HGSS era, let alone the nearly one thousand Pokémon we have today. Additionally, I want to avoid giving my protagonist the same kind of Pokémon that Ash from the anime had while he was like Johto (including what would have otherwise been obvious choices like Noctowl or one of the Johto starters) as well as the same kind of Pokémon stereotypically associated with the Johto game protagonists (like Donphan or Marill, more obvious choices), which of course limits the pool even further. The current way that I have to somewhat "fix" this potential problem is to simply have the protagonist have three or four Pokémon in his party instead of six, with the narrative excuse reason being that he would rather spend time raising a few extremely well-raised Pokémon versus six somewhat-well-raised ones. Which is all well and good for battling Gym Leaders and the like... but guess what happens when he reaches the League? Yep, not enough Pokémon for the full battle matchups. Not good!

To adress that problem that problem when the League starts, one idea I've been thinking about was to have the protagonist "borrow" two or three Pokémon from his traveling companions in order to reach the six-Pokémon requirement. There are plenty of opportunities for drama here: because the borrowed Pokémon are not actually his, the level of trust and understanding between him and the borrowed Pokémon is obviously going to be very different compared to the relationship between him and his actual Pokémon, let alone compared to that between the borrowed Pokémon and their actual trainers! And this would likely be true even if the borrowed Pokémon were on friendly terms with the protagonist earlier, outside of the context of battle. There could be potential there to explore the differences in relationship dynamics between a Pokémon and their human friend versus a Pokémon and their human trainer. And of course, there are the more obvious questions like: would a Pokémon listen to a completely new trainer without question just because they're friends, or just because their original trainer told them to do so? And even if they did, how would the relative lack of experience and understanding between the new trainer and their borrowed Pokémon affect their ability to battle and communicate effectively?

I don't see a problem with borrowing your companion's Pokemon. If he bonds with the Pokemon of the companions thoughout the story in addition to his own, then it should not be a problem.

 

[Greninjaman]

In (re)working my journey fanfiction, I'm not sure which way I should do. Each has advantages and disadvantages.

Anime Route: Having one protagonist going through each Region.
Game Route: Having one protagonist for each region.

I plan on adapting the Gym Quest as well as the Island Challenge in Alola. What are the advantages and disadvantages of each route?

 

[Persephone]

Very few people get through one region so it's somewhat unexplored, if you want an honest answer. I would plan on completing a character arc through the course of one region and then deciding whether there's another clear story to tell with them or if you'd be better off finding another character with their own problems.

 

[Greninjaman]

Very few people get through one region so it's somewhat unexplored, if you want an honest answer. I would plan on completing a character arc through the course of one region and then deciding whether there's another clear story to tell with them or if you'd be better off finding another character with their own problems.

Probably a smart move there.

 

[diamondpearl876]

Merged your thread into this one. Any discussion about journey fics should go here to prevent clutter with similarly themed threads.

 

[Greninjaman]

I've seen stories with people with mental disabilities and such, but what about a blind person? Would story fics with them as a protagonist work?

 

[Persephone]

I'm literally doing this in guidance right now. I ordinarily wouldn't just self plug without further elaboration, but this is one of those times I think I can?

Just in case I can't do that, read a bunch of accounts from blind people (especially backpackers and travelers) and work from there. I think Pokemon is a very disability friendly world because hyper-intelligent guide animals exist, you can always just rely on a Mudsdale or something to ride on and handle basic navigation out on routes, etc. Telepaths could maybe even allow for some situational vision depending on your interpretation of how that works.

guidance won't explore the latter because protagonist just isn't much interested, but it's an angle. One I would handle with care due to the sensitivity around "cure" narratives in disabled communities.

 

[Greninjaman]

How would no traveling Companions work in a Journey Fic? I'm trying to decide on whether or not to have not companions. No companions means more focus on the main character (Ash in my Journey Fiction). The story would also be able to move at a faster pace. Also, less Pokemon to worry about.