Review Kalos League Review

[Arceus the Dragon]

Considering that you used Bulbapedia as a source before, you would know that Alain is listed as a member of Team Flare. And thus, he is a member/assoicate of Team Flare by your standards. And really, what kind of character is he when he couldn't immediately turn against Lysandre the moment he realized he was tricked? He needed Ash to snap him out his depression and did nothing to help until Ash freed himself. That is a sign of a character with a weak will. He never became the strongest trainer that he sought to be. Because he was on the wrong path the whole time.

Malva was technically tricked by Lysandre's lies, but she knew she had to act immediately and then deal with her guilt afterwards. She didn't need Ash to do anything for her nor did she just watch helplessly while Team Flare destroys an entire city. If Ash was in Alain's shoes, he would cry in guilt but immediately resolves to stop Lysandre to make up for it. Just like he did in the Erika episode.

Also word of note, Alain no longer considers the Mega Ring and Stone to be his anymore. Only Lysandre's now. And thus in some retrospect, Alain will likely never see his victory as fair and square considering that the Mega Ring helped him get him there. It wasn't something he had earned (as it was given to him under false pretenses) nor did it help him grow as a character (only Mairin and later Ash did that). And that's why he starts his trainer life over.

Actually no. He was never an associate/member of team flare by my standards. Alain doesn't have a weak willed but I agree that Ash snapped him out of it and convinced him to turn on Lysandre. In the end, Ash lost the league and nothing will change that. One good thing is that he went above top 4 and didn't score top 8 or lower.

 

[Shadao]

Actually no. He was never an associate/member of team flare by my standards. Alain doesn't have a weak willed but I agree that Ash snapped him out of it and convinced him to turn on Lysandre. In the end, Ash lost the league and nothing will change that. One good thing is that he went above top 4 and didn't score top 8 or lower.

Bulbapedia placed him under Notable Member, and I do recall you used Bulbapedia to justify your points... or do you only use them when it suits you? Regardless, it is fact that Alain is considered to be part of Team Flare. And really, any sane man would have immediately turned against Lysandre the moment they realize he is destroying a city for genodical purposes. Malva is an example of that. But Alain instead lets his guilt to eat him up and render him useless until Ash has to spell it out that the past doesn't matter when the present is at stake. That is a sign of a weak person.

And a weak person has no right to be considered the strongest trainer. If his heart is easily crushed by guilt, he can never protect the ones he cares about. And due to that, what's the worth of the League champion if he is too weak to muster the will to fight his treacherous boss on his own? That is why Alain admits that he cannot win against Ash at the end of the Flare arc.

His words, not yours. That is fact.

 

[345ash-greninja]

Alain had zero reasons to win the League. He beat Ash multiple times before the League, so Ash had every reason to beat him here. Alain was portrayed as just too powerful, which ruined XY series at the end. He at least needed to lose sometime rather than constantly winning nearly every battle. The Kalos League finals was his time to lose after winning so many in a jiffy. But ridiculously, the writers once again made him win, which defied logic. He was portrayed as an OP gary stu. His flaws were hardly recognised. He was hugely responsible for Lumiose City's destruction and was too easily forgiven.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

Bulbapedia placed him under Notable Member, and I do recall you used Bulbapedia to justify your points... or do you only use them when it suits you? Regardless, it is fact that Alain is considered to be part of Team Flare. And really, any sane man would have immediately turned against Lysandre the moment they realize he is destroying a city for genodical purposes. Malva is an example of that. But Alain instead lets his guilt to eat him up and render him useless until Ash has to spell it out that the past doesn't matter when the present is at stake. That is a sign of a weak person.

And a weak person has no right to be considered the strongest trainer. If his heart is easily crushed by guilt, he can never protect the ones he cares about. And due to that, what's the worth of the League champion if he is too weak to muster the will to fight his treacherous boss on his own? That is why Alain admits that he cannot win against Ash at the end of the Flare arc.

His words, not yours. That is fact.

Not to me he wasn't. Ash is the weak one because he couldn't win a single league or keep his best pokemon. Alain is not weak.

 

[345ash-greninja]

Not to me he wasn't. Ash is the weak one because he couldn't win a single league or keep his best pokemon. Alain is not weak.

Ash didn't keep Greninja because he cared about the safety of Kalos. That makes him selfless, not weak. But Alain allowed himself to be fooled by Lysandre and didn't even help Ash after he was captured by Lysandre. So he is a morally weak person, unlike Ash.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

Ash didn't keep Greninja because he cared about the safety of Kalos. That makes him selfless, not weak. But Alain allowed himself to be fooled by Lysandre and didn't even help Ash after he was captured by Lysandre. So he is a morally weak person, unlike Ash.

Alain didn't allow himself to be fooled. Lysandre obviously can be very convincing. But what does that matter? Alain turned on him and Ash saved the region. I don't care if Ash was being selfless, I rather he kept Greninja because Kalos is already protected by others. I no longer believe Ash deserved to win the league after the release of Greninja.

 

[345ash-greninja]

Alain didn't allow himself to be fooled. Lysandre obviously can be very convincing. But what does that matter? Alain turned on him and Ash saved the region. I don't care if Ash was being selfless, I rather he kept Greninja because Kalos is already protected by others. I no longer believe Ash deserved to win the league after the release of Greninja.

Releasing a Pokemon for the safety of a region doesn't mean that he doesn't deserve to win the League. Ash is a selfless person, he cares more about the safety of others rather than being more powerful himself. So he is way morally superior than Alain. Even after Alain watched Ash being captured by Lysandre, Alain still didn't help him for quite a while, and it required Ash's motivational speech to get Alain back to his senses. This proves that Alain is morally a much weaker person. And Ash didn't win the League because the writers wanted to shift him to the next region, Alola. If Ash won the League the writers would have to keep him in Kalos as he had to then challenge the regional E4 and champion.

 

[Shadao]

Not to me he wasn't. Ash is the weak one because he couldn't win a single league or keep his best pokemon. Alain is not weak.

Alain is weak because he couldn't fight against Lysandre even when Lysandre told him the truth. He has the power to stand up to Lysandre but ends up collapsing into despair simply because he couldn't deal with guilt at all. Ash never gives up. That is why his will is strong and that is why he leads.

Alain didn't allow himself to be fooled. Lysandre obviously can be very convincing. But what does that matter? Alain turned on him and Ash saved the region. I don't care if Ash was being selfless, I rather he kept Greninja because Kalos is already protected by others. I no longer believe Ash deserved to win the league after the release of Greninja.

Alain's guilt complex makes him very easily manipulated. Steven Stone is already suspicious about Lysandre's activities with the Megalith. So clearly Lysandre isn't all that flawless with his benevolence facade. And Malva shows stronger will by scolding Lysandre's mad ambitions and taking the fight against him. She knows she's guilty by association but she will not let guilt stand in her way of saving the world for a better tomorrow. And she knows when to take responsibility as an adult after this is over. Alain's guilt complex blinds him to see the cracks behind Lysandre's goal. He never questions why they need to capture Zygarde nor wonders why Lysandre needs Mega Evolution energy at all beyond the vague "peaceful" purposes. And when he realizes the truth, his guilt complex weighs him down and he does absolutely nothing to take a stance against Lysandre.

It is Ash who stood against Lysandre first, not Alain. He leads the battle, not Alain. He teaches Alain that the past does not matter when the future is at stake. From a ten year old boy, Satoshi truly lives up to his name. Only by his demonstration of true strength does he get Alain to stand up and fight against his former boss. If Ash leads, he is the master while Alain is follower.

And really? You don't care if Ash is selfless? You want him to be selfish? To be power hungry? To be the very thing that Ash fought against? I would rather have Ash keep Greninja, but I would never demean Ash for deciding what is best for his companions, even if it tears him apart. I blame the show runners and Zygarde for Greninja's departure, but never Ash. If Ash acted in any other way, he is no longer Satoshi of Masara Town. And that would be the biggest disrespect for the character, moreso than denying a single League victory.

 

[Decaboyz]

Seriously, no matter how stupid or unreasonable the league defeat for Ash, I couldn't bring myself to hate him. He had become a really great trainer. Almost every action and decision he did this season reflect how matured his thinking was. ( He's still oblivious to romance BTW)

 

[ArvAl]

The biggest regrets of all fans may be their overwhelming hypes towards Mega Charizard X before XY even starts. Anime staffs notice those happenings by taking it on a character which most people used to love, and now that trend backfires so bad when Alain beats Ash with his ace Pokemon which, I'm afraid they won't do refunds afterwards the loss.

It could be one of possible variables, however it's just a theory though. No one knows their true reasons writing such catastrophic ending except themselves.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

Alain is weak because he couldn't fight against Lysandre even when Lysandre told him the truth. He has the power to stand up to Lysandre but ends up collapsing into despair simply because he couldn't deal with guilt at all. Ash never gives up. That is why his will is strong and that is why he leads.



Alain's guilt complex makes him very easily manipulated. Steven Stone is already suspicious about Lysandre's activities with the Megalith. So clearly Lysandre isn't all that flawless with his benevolence facade. And Malva shows stronger will by scolding Lysandre's mad ambitions and taking the fight against him. She knows she's guilty by association but she will not let guilt stand in her way of saving the world for a better tomorrow. And she knows when to take responsibility as an adult after this is over. Alain's guilt complex blinds him to see the cracks behind Lysandre's goal. He never questions why they need to capture Zygarde nor wonders why Lysandre needs Mega Evolution energy at all beyond the vague "peaceful" purposes. And when he realizes the truth, his guilt complex weighs him down and he does absolutely nothing to take a stance against Lysandre.

It is Ash who stood against Lysandre first, not Alain. He leads the battle, not Alain. He teaches Alain that the past does not matter when the future is at stake. From a ten year old boy, Satoshi truly lives up to his name. Only by his demonstration of true strength does he get Alain to stand up and fight against his former boss. If Ash leads, he is the master while Alain is follower.

And really? You don't care if Ash is selfless? You want him to be selfish? To be power hungry? To be the very thing that Ash fought against? I would rather have Ash keep Greninja, but I would never demean Ash for deciding what is best for his companions, even if it tears him apart. I blame the show runners and Zygarde for Greninja's departure, but never Ash. If Ash acted in any other way, he is no longer Satoshi of Masara Town. And that would be the biggest disrespect for the character, moreso than denying a single League victory.

Alain is not weak when it comes to battle. Maybe with the moral side but never with battles. Ash has a strong moral side but is weak when it comes to attempting to win leagues. I think Alain didn't asked questions about Lysandre's plan because he probably felt that it was not his place to ask. Ash is not a master just because he lead the battle. Ash will never be a master, role model or inspiration as he has made many failures in his journey. Ash failing the league is proof of that.

 

[Shadao]

Alain is not weak when it comes to battle. Maybe with the moral side but never with battles. Ash has a strong moral side but is weak when it comes to attempting to win leagues. I think Alain didn't asked questions about Lysandre's plan because he probably felt that it was not his place to ask. Ash is not a master just because he lead the battle. Ash will never be a master, role model or inspiration as he has made many failures in his journey. Ash failing the league is proof of that.

Alain lost nearly his entire team to Ash. Two of which are pseudo legendaries who fell down to Pikachu alone. Ash is not weak by any words, not even in battles. To say he is weak is to agree with the evil Lysandere about strength, that you have to be the most vicious trainer out there. And you do not want to agree with a bad guy, do you?

Additionally, your attempt to defend Alain has only made him look worse. Any strong trainer or true hero would question or defy orders against their superior if there is something suspicious going on. If it's not their place to even question, they deserve all the blame for not standing up. Just Following Orders won't cut it.

And you have no idea what a true Pokémon Master is if you make a claim against Ash like that. Winning isn't everything and Alain is proof of that. He states that Ash is the one trainer that he can never overcome. He saw himself as the loser while Ash is the winner. And that is fact and final.

And this is why everyone deserves to go back to Pokémon School. Leagues are toxic and overrated.

 

[Max1996]

And this is why everyone deserves to go back to Pokémon School.

Spoiler: Random sprite that seemed fitting.

Sounds like a certain Dragon-type really needs that.

 

[Silktree]

Leagues are toxic and overrated.

You'd be singing a different tune had Ash won. The league was mediocre, anyway.

 

[Shadao]

You'd be singing a different tune had Ash won. The league was mediocre, anyway.

I refer to how these kind of arguments it all boils to Ash's success or failure is apparently determined by winning the League... and nothing else. If I recall correctly, I was satisfied with Alain acknowledging Ash as the superior trainer (only disappointment is no more Ash-Greninja vs Mega Charizard X). I get angry when that fact is thrown out for a technicality win in these debates. Let's not look how powerful Ash has become, let's focus on end results and not Team Flare.

I hate it when only Legaue results become the barometer of success for Ash.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

Alain lost nearly his entire team to Ash. Two of which are pseudo legendaries who fell down to Pikachu alone. Ash is not weak by any words, not even in battles. To say he is weak is to agree with the evil Lysandere about strength, that you have to be the most vicious trainer out there. And you do not want to agree with a bad guy, do you?

Additionally, your attempt to defend Alain has only made him look worse. Any strong trainer or true hero would question or defy orders against their superior if there is something suspicious going on. If it's not their place to even question, they deserve all the blame for not standing up. Just Following Orders won't cut it.

And you have no idea what a true Pokémon Master is if you make a claim against Ash like that. Winning isn't everything and Alain is proof of that. He states that Ash is the one trainer that he can never overcome. He saw himself as the loser while Ash is the winner. And that is fact and final.

And this is why everyone deserves to go back to Pokémon School. Leagues are toxic and overrated.

To say Ash is weak doesn't agree with evil Lysandre so stop making things up. And no, defending him doesn't make things worse and that is another lie. Alain will still beat Ash in a battle. He is not a loser but he will make sure he won't put his trust in the wrong people gain. No, what you said is not fact but lies. Making things up like that only makes Ash look worse. Ash will always be inferior to Alain in terms of battles and that is real facts.

Arguing with me is pointless. I have my opinion and you have yours.

 

[Superblast]

To say Ash is weak doesn't agree with evil Lysandre so stop making things up. And no, defending him doesn't make things worse and that is another lie. Alain will still beat Ash in a battle. He is not a loser but he will make sure he won't put his trust in the wrong people gain. No, what you said is not fact but lies. Making things up like that only makes Ash look worse. Ash will always be inferior to Alain in terms of battles and that is real facts.

Arguing with me is pointless. I have my opinion and you have yours.

I find it utterly baffling that you actually follow the mindset that winning = everything. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand, but there's more to "strength" than league results. If you think otherwise then you're unbelievably petty. I mean, it's almost like these characters had personalities or something!

Ash's character, not his win ratio, is superior to Alain's in every single way. He is stronger in willpower, in motives, and in ideals. If Ash sees a problem, he'll leap straight into action and do whatever it takes to fix it, which is exactly what he did. If Alain sees a problem, he'll hide in a corner and blame himself, which is exactly what he did. Ash is driven by an unfailing motivation to make things right. Alain has to be spoonfed motivation to do anything.

And what does Alain have over Ash? Exactly one thing: he wins more battles than Ash does. And that's exactly what people hate about him in the first place. He's fueled by nothing but insecurity and false motives and is still impossibly powerful, which I've already explained is an absolutely terrible character template.

 

[Arceus the Dragon]

I find it utterly baffling that you actually follow the mindset that winning = everything. I'm not sure why this is so difficult for you to understand, but there's more to "strength" than league results. If you think otherwise then you're unbelievably petty. I mean, it's almost like these characters had personalities or something!

Ash's character, not his win ratio, is superior to Alain's in every single way. He is stronger in willpower, in motives, and in ideals. If Ash sees a problem, he'll leap straight into action and do whatever it takes to fix it, which is exactly what he did. If Alain sees a problem, he'll hide in a corner and blame himself, which is exactly what he did. Ash is driven by an unfailing motivation to make things right. Alain has to be spoonfed motivation to do anything.

And what does Alain have over Ash? Exactly one thing: he wins more battles than Ash does. And that's exactly what people hate about him in the first place. He's fueled by nothing but insecurity and false motives and is still impossibly powerful, which I've already explained is an absolutely terrible character template.

I do agree that Ash has a better character. But Ash has been losing leagues so many times that it is becoming old. Did Alain messed up? Yes but he managed to turn around in the end. Ash was the hero of the day and saving a region is bigger than a league win. Alain is going to work harder to be better than his previous self from now on. As for Ash, unless I see an improvement in SM then I am unlikely to remain a fan of him for much longer.

 

[Master Cyrus]

I never thought Ash would win in the first place so I wasn't shocked at the outcome at all since DP has proven that Ash will never win a league no matter how prepared.

Of course they then pulled another DP->BW here where he almost won and then got a new design to make him look even more childish, presumably with a large nerf to his intelligence as well.

 

[Matleo]

why dondt they use type and ability immunities any more?

would have been great to see for once Alan or someone using a dragon move against a fairy type.

They make them all to smart and too unforgettable in their battles lately.