Kanto/Johto Sequels

[Silktree]

Here's a better idea for Typhlosion: Have its Z-move be a powered up Burn Up, that activates Flash Fire and makes it so that Typhlosion's type never changes when it subsequently uses Burn Up.

Also, give it Earth Power and Energy Ball already, as well as Sleep Powder for Meganium and Icicle Crash for Feraligatr. The latter's Z-move could be a powered up Aqua Tail with a secondary effect that increases Feraligatr's Speed by one stage, and gives it Moxie as an ability.

And while I'm at it, here is what I proposed for the Unown in their specific thread:

I would follow the third movie by having the Unown create imaginary variants of other Pokemon. A puzzle would allow the player to use Unown letters to spell out the name of the desired Pokemon, as well as its ability and three of its moves (Hidden Power would be forced, but its power would be doubled).

Sure, some of the results could be pretty broken, but they would be banned from official tournaments and battle facilities. At least they would be fun to use casually due to the virtually endless possibilities, which is more than can be said for banned legendaries.

Don't you feel all tingly inside while thinking about the Unown?

 

[SerenaToAlola]

I linked to the storyline posts before, but I'll just quote them:



As you can tell, Lillie and Lusamine play important roles, but the real highlight is another character that ties into a seldom known Crystal event. I also have ideas regarding another mysterious character...

Ah I actually saw your posts before but I wasn't really able to follow it cause it got pretty complicated. Well I like the epidemic idea and how it creates stakes within the story. Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe this entire epidemic drama is in addition to the usual league/challenge that the player character set off on and would get incorporated to the story in a similar fashion to how Lillie dragged the player character from SM into her whole Aether Foundation drama right?

I also like your ideas of tying in the alternate universe of the earlier games with the current universe, however the way you went about it seems way too convoluted. An idea I had was that the spread of the epidemic caused Lusamine to direct Aether Foundation’s research efforts towards the epidemic with Mew as a key research subject since it after all has the DNA of every Pokemon. In the course of their research, they have discovered something that could destroy this virus. However their discovery is way too dangerous and they hence decided to contain it in the GS ball and as a way of securing it, sent it back in time and into another dimension (the older games, basically) for safe keeping with the help of Chieko and Celebi.

However, rogue researchers from Aether Foundation want to keep the GS ball for themselves thinking that it would increase their influence and as such makes attempt to head into those dimensions to sabotage the plans. The player character then chases the rogue researchers into this other dimension to stop them. Here the game could revert back to the style of the earlier games as sort of a cool throwback to show that we are going back in time to those earlier games. The researchers get into an argument with the player character and in an attempt to show their power, threatens to release the GS ball to destroy these earlier worlds. It is then revealed that it is Marshadow that is in the GS ball all this time and the player character has to defeat Marshadow to save the various worlds. The player then captures Marshadow and teaches it some values such as the need to protect humans that are not its trainer. Meanwhile Lusamine and Bill are still unable to find the solution to the epidemic and they look towards Sinnoh and the creation trio for further answers.

Why Marshadow? Well IDK, it’s not available in anyway yet so I guess it would be convenient to use it to solve a plot hole from the past. I didn’t really like the idea of new MewTwos and Celebis as I found it unnecessarily complex and confusing (sorry... I know you put in a lot of time and effort to think this through but I just feel like it's drama without adding anything to the point of the story hope you understand).

 

[Silktree]

Correct me if I’m wrong but I believe this entire epidemic drama is in addition to the usual league/challenge that the player character set off on and would get incorporated to the story in a similar fashion to how Lillie dragged the player character from SM into her whole Aether Foundation drama right?

Yes, but unlike the island challenge being the player character's main goal, in this case the league would be a means to an end. It would be about the gym leaders teaching/testing the player more than anything else, which would add more depth compared to the previous games. That is to say, the leaders would appear outside their gyms and interaction with Totem-like Pokemon (Neo Celebi's army) would take place prior to the gym battles.

I also like your ideas of tying in the alternate universe of the earlier games with the current universe, however the way you went about it seems way too convoluted.

Fair enough, but I'd argue that's because they are condensed into a single post as a huge info dump. In an actual game, the reveals would happen gradually and flashback scenes would help the player digest the story. It is not that complicated, but I suppose that some elements might be handled in a subtle way (not unlike ORAS' Sea Mauville) rather than being thoroughly explained.

Why Marshadow? Well IDK, it’s not available in anyway yet so I guess it would be convenient to use it to solve a plot hole from the past. I didn’t really like the idea of new MewTwos and Celebis as I found it unnecessarily complex and confusing (sorry... I know you put in a lot of time and effort to think this through but I just feel like it's drama without adding anything to the point of the story hope you understand).

Okay. If we're being honest, then I don't like your Marshadow idea, which is obviously not something that occurred to Game Freak in 2000. To make matters worse, you brought the Sinnoh trio into this, too.

I hope you understand.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

So basically like Volcanion? Also I agree with Silk about them using Z moves over Megas since they along with regional forms are this gens main shtick

Typhlosion has a different stat spread than Volcanion. But, both have almost similar concepts, but different execution.

 

[Silktree]

It is not unthinkable that Typhlosion's Z-move might have a self-infecting Soak-like effect, especially if Burn Up is involved.

The bottom line is that Z-moves have untapped potential. Game Freak simply need to explore more ideas than raw power. In addition to the Johto starters, there are also the 10 Kanto/Johto legendaries (Mew already has one), especially the bird and beast trios which need the boost.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

Okay. If we're being honest, then I don't like your Marshadow idea, which is obviously not something that occurred to Game Freak in 2000. To make matters worse, you brought the Sinnoh trio into this, too.

I brought in the Sinnoh trio cause I see them as a natural extension to SM's story which involves dimensions and space. Your story involves time as well which once again is something that the Sinnoh trio is concerned with. Personally, I want a trilogy covering Gen I-II and IV because it just seems like the perfect/convenient way to wrap up all the sequels and remakes or whatever it is that people want to me.

Is there any other reason why you don't like Marshadow idea aside from the fact that's it's something that's clearly based on hindsight? My problem with your whole Neo Celebi and new MewTwo thing is that there doesn't seem to be any point to it aside from it being dramatic and that doesn't make good story telling from what I've learned. You would have to consider what has this Celebi's depression-ish phase got to do with the point/theme of your story in order for it to work. It just seems all over the place now.

Yes, but unlike the island challenge being the player character's main goal, in this case the league would be a means to an end. It would be about the gym leaders teaching/testing the player more than anything else, which would add more depth compared to the previous games. That is to say, the leaders would appear outside their gyms and interaction with Totem-like Pokemon (Neo Celebi's army) would take place prior to the gym battles.

You honestly lost me here. So the league is not the main goal? If not then why would the PC take part in the league at all?

 

[Silktree]

I doubt that there will be a trilogy. This generation will likely last three years, and Game Freak need a gap to prepare a new generation - especially for a new system. SM hint at Kanto sequels, but certainly not Sinnoh sequels. Last I checked, SM take place after DP, so I don't see what Lillie would have to do with remakes.

Why do I dislike your Marshadow idea? Maybe because there is nothing to imply that it is a destructive force of nature? You take issue with my backstory for Neo Celebi, but there needs to be one for any villainous legendary that drives a storyline. I think that your anti-drama stance is weird, especially if you like Lillie...

That is not to say that my ideas couldn't be simplified, but the radical departure you're suggesting would be so unfitting for Kanto/Johto games.

You honestly lost me here. So the league is not the main goal? If not then why would the PC take part in the league at all?

The player's goal would be to become equipped to solve the plague crisis. It wouldn't be just something to do between gyms/trials. Arguably, BW did this with the league being about stopping N, which I liked.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

I don't want a DP remake. I want another sequel to SM set in Sinnoh.

We don't really know anything about Marshadow right now so it can literally be anything they want to make it to be. It does feel like it could be incredibly strong though and has the potential to be really destructive. However, it does seem like it also has quite a bit of empathy and can learn how to be good. Anyway it appears in Kanto according to the new movie so I thought why not.

Yes a good villain needs a back story but I just don't see why Celebi would suddenly become the villain. The link between it's backstory (loneliness and depression?) and the point of the story (why we have to stop the plague) seems pretty tenuous to me. It almost feels like the whole purpose of Neo Celebi is to just have some fancy redesign of Celebi with some elaborate animation. The result is over-dramatic and I just don't see a need for it. Anyway I'm still learning more about story telling so you can take my criticisms with a pinch of salt and not take it too personally. <3

 

[Silktree]

Don't worry, I don't take it personally or even seriously. I think you're a little too enamored with the idea of following Lillie around the world and I suspect that you don't really care about the older regions.

As for Marshadow, I doubt they will do more with it in Kanto/Johto than they did with Diancie/Hoopa in Hoenn, or Magearna in Alola for that matter. I expect a new form with very little exposition.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

My problem with your whole Neo Celebi and new MewTwo thing is that there doesn't seem to be any point to it aside from it being dramatic and that doesn't make good story telling from what I've learned. You would have to consider what has this Celebi's depression-ish phase got to do with the point/theme of your story in order for it to work. It just seems all over the place now.

You know, the problem/thing with Pokemon is that the stories are mostly dramatic. When have you heard of a ten year old trying to catch the creator of the universe? Travel to an alternate dimension? Catch the bearers of time, and space? Try to catch the Pokemon that expand the land/water?

You honestly lost me here. So the league is not the main goal? If not then why would the PC take part in the league at all?

To get stronger to try to try and cure the epidemic? I'm not sure how much the PC can do without training with a level 5 Bulbasaur/Charmander/Squirtle/Pikachu.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

I think you're a little too enamored with the idea of following Lillie around the world and I suspect that you don't really care about the older regions.

Maybe I am hehehe. Well I only played some of the older games but I mostly ignored the story for all of them.

To get stronger to try to try and cure the epidemic? I'm not sure how much the PC can do without training with a level 5 Bulbasaur/Charmander/Squirtle/Pikachu.

You don't have to take part in the league to train your Pokemon. In fact, if the epidemic is so serious, wouldn't the league be a distraction from saving the world? If I set off on a journey to find a cure for an epidemic, I would be focused on finding the cure and not going to gyms. Going to the gyms wouldn't make sense unless the gym leaders all know something about the epidemic.

 

[SinnohEevee]

Maybe I am hehehe. Well I only played some of the older games but I mostly ignored the story for all of them.



You don't have to take part in the league to train your Pokemon. In fact, if the epidemic is so serious, wouldn't the league be a distraction from saving the world? If I set off on a journey to find a cure for an epidemic, I would be focused on finding the cure and not going to gyms. Going to the gyms wouldn't make sense unless the gym leaders all know something about the epidemic.

But doing the League is probably the best way to train your Pokémon.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

You don't have to take part in the league to train your Pokemon. In fact, if the epidemic is so serious, wouldn't the league be a distraction from saving the world? If I set off on a journey to find a cure for an epidemic, I would be focused on finding the cure and not going to gyms. Going to the gyms wouldn't make sense unless the gym leaders all know something about the epidemic.

According to Silktree's storyline, Neo Celebi's army's members will be outside the gym. I think I, as a gym leader, would notice if a Pokemon with a dark force is battling people outside my gym...

 

[SinnohEevee]

Better fight a Neo Celebi army with a strong team: Mega Venusaur/Charizard/Blastoise, Raichu, Dragonite, etc.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Venusaur/Charizard/Blastoise, Raichu, Dragonite,

You just mentioned half of my dream Kanto team... just replace Dragonite with Dragonair.

 

[SinnohEevee]

You just mentioned half of my dream Kanto team... just replace Dragonite with Dragonair.

Which Eeveelution would you use?

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Which Eeveelution would you use?

Though you didn't mention an eeveelution there... I think I'll be going with either Flareon or Umbreon.

I hope they make atleast a few Megas or something. Noctowl needs time to shine, for one. And I doubt a Z-Move will do anything for it.
GF, it learns more Psychic than normal moves!!

 

[SinnohEevee]

Though you didn't mention an eeveelution there... I think I'll be going with either Flareon or Umbreon.

I hope they make atleast a few Megas or something. Noctowl needs time to shine, for one. And I doubt a Z-Move will do anything for it.
GF, it learns more Psychic than normal moves!!

I didn't because I am unsure about it.

 

[Silktree]

I hope they make atleast a few Megas or something. Noctowl needs time to shine, for one. And I doubt a Z-Move will do anything for it.
GF, it learns more Psychic than normal moves!!

Era variant.

Well, owls don't only symbolize luck in Japan. In different parts of the country, they have historically been given a variety of other attributions (as a guiding bird and a bird which can predict the weather, for example), but original folktales ascribing these representations seem to have gradually vanished.

Since the Meiji restoration in 1868 when Japan opened its doors to the West, the image of the owl has also changed, and the view on owls as a symbol of wisdom and education became more prominent.

Today, the idea that owls represent lucky charms for fortune and protection and the alternate view that they symbolize knowledge seem to coexist in an unusual and interesting mix, just like the new and old Japan I guess, and this combination of meanings only increases the amount of cute and happy owl designs on the market!

Basically, the Noctowl we know represents wisdom (despite the lack of Psychic typing), but a variant from an older era would symbolize luck and/or guidance. Fairy/Flying would be appropriate.

It is intersting to note that the Swablu line were the oddballs with access to Moonlast in XY, which was later justified by Mega Altaria. Now in SM, the Hoothoot line suddenly have access to Moonblast, too. Variants don't need to share moves, but still.

 

[SerenaToAlola]

You know, the problem/thing with Pokemon is that the stories are mostly dramatic. When have you heard of a ten year old trying to catch the creator of the universe? Travel to an alternate dimension? Catch the bearers of time, and space? Try to catch the Pokemon that expand the land/water?

There's a difference between a dramatic story and an overdramatic plot development that doesn't tie in with the theme of the story. A big reason why SM was said to have the best story ever was because everything ties in nicely around the central theme of family. A good and meaningful story would focus on a central theme and have its plot development revolve around this theme.

According to Silktree's storyline, Neo Celebi's army's members will be outside the gym. I think I, as a gym leader, would notice if a Pokemon with a dark force is battling people outside my gym...

No doubt they would know about the dark force but would they know anything about how to deal with this dark force? If they did they would be doing something about the epidemic themselves already. Having a battle with a 10 year old just to help him get stronger so that he can maybe help in finding a cute for this epidemic would just seem like a waste of time. If they didn't then I don't really see the point of battling the gym leader for a badge when there's something else that is so urgent. I don't think that gym matches are the best way to train... You can also train by battling wild Pokemon in the course of your journey.