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Keldeo to be revealed in upcoming CoroCoro: 'Nobunaga' scans also leaked

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Joshawott

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I believe as well as this new information about Keldeo in this issue next issue will have Kyurem form details.

I took this quote from Serebii

This image, as usual, provides a teaser into what will be contained in next month's issue. This teaser states that in the next issue, due for release on March 15th, there is to be another bit of surprise information. This information is said to not just be about Keldeo, with it stating it will post "more than the report of Keldeo".
To The Pokémon Company, "surprise" means "Something which people outside of the target audience would have guessed years ago". Watch it be Grey or *sighs* Kyurem's new form.
 

TheCapsFan

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I don't think Kyurem even needs a new forme: it's awesome as it is.
 

Silktree

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To The Pokémon Company, "surprise" means "Something which people outside of the target audience would have guessed years ago". Watch it be Grey or *sighs* Kyurem's new form.
Don't belittle the target audience, which is a vague term. The kids who are new to the series are not the overwhelming majority, if they are the majority at all. If the target audience were really clueless I wouldn't blame the Pokémon Company for failing to generate actual surprises, but since that is not the case I do think there is a problem.
 

Mitchman

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*snip*
For the reasons I've stated above, if Generation V is made to be as long as III and IV, thus moving to the 3DS mid-generation, I'd be pretty disappointed in GameFreak.
You mentioned that jumping to the 3DS mid-gen would give us the same problem with gen 6, and it won't if we do get a 4 year gen as things are pointing to. The next gen would launch by 2014, which given how the 3DS will be 3 years old itself, would easily give breathing room to Gamefreak for Gen 6 to be on the 3DS with little to no problems on jumping to the next hardware for and if there is a gen 7. More importantly, establishing a new engine for the 3DS which would make development easier would help things go far more smoothly in gen 6 as they would have the experience with it. not to mention, if we got a mid gen reboot for jumping to the 3DS, we could get 2 games featuring 2 kyurem formes



Don't belittle the target audience, which is a vague term. The kids who are new to the series are not the overwhelming majority, if they are the majority at all. If the target audience were really clueless I wouldn't blame the Pokémon Company for failing to generate actual surprises, but since that is not the case I do think there is a problem.
The target audience is made up of clueless 5 year olds who can't go on the net and rely on reading a freaking kidzine. The only problem is here.
 

Silktree

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if we do get a 4 year gen as things are pointing to.
Things are not pointing in any concrete direction yet. If anything, I'd say that the anime's fast pace is a far more significant factor than the fact that Keldeo is only now being revealed, because distributing Meloetta and Genesect is a trivial matter whereas extending Best Wishes for almost two more years after the Unova League is not.

The next gen would launch by 2014, which given how the 3DS will be 3 years old itself, would easily give breathing room to Gamefreak for Gen 6 to be on the 3DS with little to no problems on jumping to the next hardware for and if there is a gen 7.
I can definitely see a problem with that, because if they deliberately wait four years to release a new generation every single time, eventually they'll run into the same problem they did with Black and White or even worse. If they wait until 2014 to release Generation VI and the 3DS' successor is released in 2017, will they really be able to release Generation VII in 2018 for that system? They can't keep doing the same thing every generation while ignoring Nintendo's moves. But I digress, as I think the real problem with the DS games is that Game Freak deliberately did not tap into the DS' full potential during Generation IV because the plan was always to release Black and White for that same system. If Game Freak chose to extend this generation by releasing Gray and remakes for the 3DS, the stalling and lazy approach toward utilizing the 3DS would be apparent, and not because 2013 is too soon for a proper 3DS game to be released. Besides, let's not forget that remakes would divert their attention from the development of the new generation.

More importantly, establishing a new engine for the 3DS which would make development easier would help things go far more smoothly in gen 6 as they would have the experience with it.
A late 2013 release date should give them enough time to do just that, as it will have been 2.5 years since the 3DS' release (and they got the development kits in early 2010). We've never had to wait for over three years to see a new generation on a new system.

The target audience is made up of clueless 5 year olds who can't go on the net and rely on reading a freaking kidzine. The only problem is here.
Five year olds? That is such an exaggeration. It is typically believed that the target audience comprises largely of elementary-school kids (ages 7-12), but Nintendo seem to think this has changed:

Satoru Iwata said:
You can now see the same age demographics by gender for Pokémon HeartGold and SoulSilver that were launched in September last year.
I mentioned this before at our Management Briefing in October last year, but 10 years after the launch of Pokémon Gold and Silver for Game Boy Color, both males and females in high school and a number of people in the 19 to 24 years old age bracket, who were believed to have graduated from Pokémon, have once again started enjoying Pokémon in addition to the current elementary-school children.


And these are the registrants’ age demographics by gender for the latest Pokémon Black and Pokémon White.

The trend of reanimation of Pokémon graduates has gained the momentum to show further expansion. The record first-week sales of the software can be said as the result of this trend. I think you may know this from your own experiences, but an increasing number of people who are playing with Nintendo DS on public transport and in other public spaces have been observed.
I'd say the problem is that the Pokémon Company haven't given the demographic shift much weight yet.
 
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Joshawott

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@Silktree pretty summed up my points in regards to a 3DS jump. In that if they do make Grey for the 3DS, they will obviously be holding back some of the 3DS' features for Generation VI. If they didn't hold back and went all out with a 3DS Grey, then what else could they add into Generation VI? I feel that things like the Dream World were attempts to try and go the step further.

Personally, I'd prefer a DS game that pushed the console to its limits instead of a 3DS game that hardly uses the console's capacity at all.
 

Serebii

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@Silktree pretty summed up my points in regards to a 3DS jump. In that if they do make Grey for the 3DS, they will obviously be holding back some of the 3DS' features for Generation VI. If they didn't hold back and went all out with a 3DS Grey, then what else could they add into Generation VI? I feel that things like the Dream World were attempts to try and go the step further.

Personally, I'd prefer a DS game that pushed the console to its limits instead of a 3DS game that hardly uses the console's capacity at all.

Au contraire. Many of the C-Gear features ended up being used in a similar manner to StreetPass meaning that they can be fully implemented into StreetPass. SpotPass can also be used for various things.

Upgraded graphics, ok...but they have said that they wish to remain sprite-based, so it's all just a matter of polish. A game doesn't NEED to push hardware's limits. Seriously.
 

Joshawott

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@Silktree pretty summed up my points in regards to a 3DS jump. In that if they do make Grey for the 3DS, they will obviously be holding back some of the 3DS' features for Generation VI. If they didn't hold back and went all out with a 3DS Grey, then what else could they add into Generation VI? I feel that things like the Dream World were attempts to try and go the step further.

Personally, I'd prefer a DS game that pushed the console to its limits instead of a 3DS game that hardly uses the console's capacity at all.

Au contraire. Many of the C-Gear features ended up being used in a similar manner to StreetPass meaning that they can be fully implemented into StreetPass. SpotPass can also be used for various things.
Well yeah, when I first heard of the C-Gear's features I thought of StreetPass and it was a similar feature in Nintendogs and Dragon Quest IX that inspired StreetPass in the first place. The problem is though, if GameFreak are going to continue Generation V onto the 3DS, they will have to hold back some things for Generation VI. For example, if they go all out with StreetPass (with the C-Gear and some new uses), SpotPass and things like AR and Motion Controls if they choose to use them, what will they have for Gen VI? Besides, if they use StreetPass for the simple C-Gear functions in a 3DS Grey, then Gen VI comes along on the new console with some amazing use for StreetPass, you'll have people wondering "Well, why didn't they just let us do that in Grey?" and if they did, then what would they do to make Generation VI stand out more? For Black and White, they had to do things like the gimmicky C-Gear dealy (who actually uses the survey thing?) and the Global Link website - which hasn't been able to completely cope with the demand since day 1.

Besides, why is Pokémon + Nobunaga's Ambition still for the Nintendo DS? After all, it's coming out just over a year since the 3DS came out in Japan. The Pokémon Company are still supporting the Nintendo DS and I expect that will continue this year (with Grey probably being its last game)

Upgraded graphics, ok...but they have said that they wish to remain sprite-based, so it's all just a matter of polish. A game doesn't NEED to push hardware's limits. Seriously.
Well, I think asking for graphics similar to Dead or Alive Dimensions, Resident Evil Revelations or Metal Gear Solid 3D: Snake Eater would be asking for too much anyway; especially as there will be 646 Pokémon, plus their alternate and shiny forms (and come Generation VI, another 100-odd more). Sure, Pokédex 3D has some fantastic 3D models, but that's only 161 models and it sure as hell takes up a lot of extra data. Maybe they'll go the BlazBlue route for battles and merely have the background is well, in the background? With sprites though, at the very least, GameFreak will have to move away from the pixelated sprites soon - perhaps replacing them more "smooth" ones.
 
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El_

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Personally, I'd prefer a DS game that pushed the console to its limits instead of a 3DS game that hardly uses the console's capacity at all.

Agreed with this. 2012 (2013 for others) is also the perfect time to finally have one last hurrah for Pokemon on the DS. Eventually they will have to switch the main series entirely to the 3DS and it just makes more sense to do that with gen 6, which imo isn't that far away.

A lot of things seem to indicate to me at least that this generation will be completed faster than the last ones. People seem to forget about the old days when a generation lasted for two to three years. (Gens 1+2)

There is no law that says gen 5 must last for 4 years, and there is certainly no certainty at all for RSE remakes in this gen at all. Remakes should be held for the 3DS in the next generation anyways.

What I see happening soon:

Sometime between March-June: Unveiling of Kyurem's Forme/Announcement of Grey
Pokemon Grey Nintendo DS - September 2012 (March 2013 for US)
Pokemon BW: The Song of Meloetta & the Mysterious Genesect July 2013
September 2013: The BW anime ends + the debut of Gen 6 and the switch over of Pokemon to the 3DS

That just seems like a logical schedule to me.
 

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I basically agree with Joshawott and El_, but I also think that Gray should utilize the 3DS in some way despite being a DS title (assuming that is the case). A year ago IGN reported that the non-Japanese versions Black and White would be enhanced on the 3DS. Now, I did not believe that rumor because IGN had had no track record of reporting exclusive Pokémon information, but even now I trust they relied on facts when they said that DS games could gain some enhanced functionality when played on the 3DS. It would appear, though, that this was not possible before June 2011:

Tsunekazu Ishihara said:
To be candid with you, the 3DS is not an easy platform to develop software on. Thinking about it another way, though, it's the kind of platform that really makes you want to delve into the feature set and figure out how to make fun things with it. The more you explore the features, the more ideas pop up about how to make games more fun. The 3DS has two CPUs -- one devoted to the game, another devoted to network communication -- and until the June update, I'd say that the communication chip was sort of a work in progress. The update completed the package, so to speak, and now we can get full performance out of that CPU. The fact that these two CPUs work independently of each other is really important -- one can work all by itself without being bogged down by the other. I think taking full advantage of that is one of the keys to 3DS game development.

To be honest, there isn't much I can tell you yet, sadly. However, I can tell you that we've got just as many surprises in store for the second half of 2011 as we had for the first half, so keep an eye out for us. I don't think every Nintendo DS user has immediately upgraded to the 3DS, so while we'd like to keep DS gamers close in our minds, we also want to show people how much the world of Pokémon can be expanded with the 3DS's feature set.
Granted, he was referring to the development of 3DS games in general, but since he mentioned that not all the DS players had upgraded to the 3DS (and as far as Pokémon is concerned the situation hasn't changed) I would think the first step toward incoporating the 3DS features would actually not be a 3DS-exclusive game. That is where the possibility that IGN brought up could come in, now that the network features are essentially separate from the in-game ones.

What I'd like to see in Gray in terms of 3DS-exclusive features is a Wi-Fi community/guild feature, similar to the one in Mario Kart 3DS. It would essentially be an online Union Room merged with the Wi-Fi Club, using one Friend Code for the entire community (let's say around 16 people). Such a feature would not detract from the bigger things that could be done in Generation VI, but it would be anything but a gimmick, unlike Platinum's Wi-Fi Plaza. At the very least it would allow people to organize proper Wi-Fi tournaments for the first time. It is also notable that this would allow Kyurem's Forme to be used in Wi-Fi battles (in contrast to the Platinum Formes), as the community would obviously be open to Gray players only.
 
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Mitchman

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Communities are game based for now so for all we know gray could belong to the NiN side of things for the wireless part of the game instead of NWC, but even then blocking off such an important feature unless you buy a 3DS is far too divisive at this point to go smoothly. Any 3DS exclusive features would go straight to gen 6 or gray if and if only it goes to the 3DS. I just can't see it working.
 

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Communities are game based for now so for all we know gray could belong to the NiN side of things for the wireless part of the game instead of NWC, but even then blocking off such an important feature unless you buy a 3DS is far too divisive at this point to go smoothly. Any 3DS exclusive features would go straight to gen 6 or gray if and if only it goes to the 3DS. I just can't see it working.
What do you mean by "too divisive"? As long as it is technically doable, it goes without saying that it would be much fairer than forcing players to buy a 3DS just to play a game that should be almost entirely playable on the DS.
 

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Forcing people to buy a 3DS for communities would be divisive. As I said though if communties were to become game based and the servers used are the NiN servers and not the NWC servers then by all means would I be for it. I was also thinking going DS would be bad sales wise as Pokemon games no matter if the main duo or the 3rd game always attract new customers, and selling 3DS' for the sake of playing DS games looks really stupid on TPC's part. I just can't see it happening.
 

Joshawott

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If Pokémon Grey is on the DS, but has such 3DS features, it would create a situation where it doesn't force people to go out and buy a 3DS to play it, but it encourages them to do so, but doesn't leave the non-3DS owners left entirely in the dark. If it is possible to have a DS game tap into the 3DS' CPU, that would of course be really cool (sort of like how BW being played on a DSi/XL/3DS allowed it to use WPA).

People could say that the comment about people not adopting the 3DS came before the price drop and fair enough, that's true. However, the 3DS sales only really picked up with Christmas, meaning Grey would have been in development for well over a year before then. Also, why is Pokémon + Nobunaga's Ambition on the DS, not the 3DS? =3.
 

Silktree

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I was also thinking going DS would be bad sales wise as Pokemon games no matter if the main duo or the 3rd game always attract new customers, and selling 3DS' for the sake of playing DS games looks really stupid on TPC's part. I just can't see it happening.
There would be nothing wrong with a September 2012 DS release, especially if the game included incentives to buy a 3DS. Should Generation VI be released in 2013, there is no major reason to worry about raising 3DS' sales just yet. Let's not forget that Diamond and Pearl were released almost two years after the DS, and we're only now getting to the 3DS' first anniversary.

The only thing that I see as divisive is expecting people to buy a new system for a game that barely utilizes its hardware.
 
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Mitchman

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If Pokémon Grey is on the DS, but has such 3DS features, it would create a situation where it doesn't force people to go out and buy a 3DS to play it, but it encourages them to do so, but doesn't leave the non-3DS owners left entirely in the dark. If it is possible to have a DS game tap into the 3DS' CPU, that would of course be really cool (sort of like how BW being played on a DSi/XL/3DS allowed it to use WPA).

People could say that the comment about people not adopting the 3DS came before the price drop and fair enough, that's true. However, the 3DS sales only really picked up with Christmas, meaning Grey would have been in development for well over a year before then. Also, why is Pokémon + Nobunaga's Ambition on the DS, not the 3DS? =3.
Thing is a DS game cannot tap into a 3DS' CPU. Same architecture and what not but DS gameplay is solely based on emulation on the 3DS. Only way gamefreak would be able to tap into the 3DS is if they achieve some kinda mystical god-tier of tech-magic surpassing the gamecube's own wizardry. Which is also why communties would be impossible unless its the game itself that has the communities. As for why the hell Nobunaga is on the DS is probably cause TPC doesn't see reason to go for it. That or people got cheap.


There would be nothing wrong with a September 2012 DS release, especially if the game included incentives to buy a 3DS. Should Generation VI be released in 2013, there is no major reason to worry about raising 3DS sales just yet. Let's not forget that Diamond and Pearl were released almost two years after the DS, and we're only now getting to the 3DS's first anniversary.

The only thing that I see as divisive is expecting people to buy a new system for a game that barely utilizes its hardware.
But it can't have incentives as I stupidly just realized late into this debate. As I mentioned DS gameplay is emulated on the 3DS, and has NOTHING to do with its wireless capabilities nor can it magically conjure 3D.And yes diamond and pearl were released 2 years into the DS' life cycle, but by golly we're gonna need 6 months to that point come September in the middle of a generation. Continuing on the DS would only be for convenience's sake, and that's it. Consumer wise it makes the most sense, but industry wise it could be risk. No point in repeating myself, but for the sake of getting new customers moving to 3DS makes absolute sense, no matter what the hell platform BW were on.
 

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Thing is a DS game cannot tap into a 3DS' CPU. Same architecture and what not but DS gameplay is solely based on emulation on the 3DS.
I'd like to see some proof of that statement. This is not what was believed a year ago; only 3D gameplay was ruled out. The fact that no DS game has used the 3DS' network features so far isn't enough to refute the possibility.

And yes diamond and pearl were released 2 years into the DS' life cycle, but by golly we're gonna need 6 months to that point come September in the middle of a generation.
The theory that at least some us are considering is that Generation VI will be released in September 2013, which is only 6 months after the two-year hallmark. I don't see why Game Freak would be more eager to release the first 3DS game than they were with the DS. Clearly, only a new generation will begin to do the system some justice, so if they're worried about the 3DS' sales they shouldn't wait until 2014 to launch a new generation.
 
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Joshawott

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If Pokémon Grey is on the DS, but has such 3DS features, it would create a situation where it doesn't force people to go out and buy a 3DS to play it, but it encourages them to do so, but doesn't leave the non-3DS owners left entirely in the dark. If it is possible to have a DS game tap into the 3DS' CPU, that would of course be really cool (sort of like how BW being played on a DSi/XL/3DS allowed it to use WPA).

People could say that the comment about people not adopting the 3DS came before the price drop and fair enough, that's true. However, the 3DS sales only really picked up with Christmas, meaning Grey would have been in development for well over a year before then. Also, why is Pokémon + Nobunaga's Ambition on the DS, not the 3DS? =3.
Thing is a DS game cannot tap into a 3DS' CPU. Same architecture and what not but DS gameplay is solely based on emulation on the 3DS. Only way gamefreak would be able to tap into the 3DS is if they achieve some kinda mystical god-tier of tech-magic surpassing the gamecube's own wizardry. Which is also why communties would be impossible unless its the game itself that has the communities.
Well, whether or not it is actually possible has yet to be seen. If it is possible, then it would be a cool idea. If it isn't, then I still prefer the idea of Grey being on the DS.

As for why the hell Nobunaga is on the DS is probably cause TPC doesn't see reason to go for it. That or people got cheap.
Hate to say it but, "or people got cheap" is a pretty terrible argument; especially considering how Pokémon + Nobunaga's Ambition is a brand new game, whereas Pokémon Grey will be a simple third version - Black and White with a few extras thrown in. If people have indeed "got cheap", then it's more logical that Grey will be for the DS. Think about it - we have Rumble Blast on the 3DS and Nobunaga's Ambition on the original DS - that shows me that The Pokémon Company are still willing to support Nintendo's notion that the DS and 3DS can live side by side for the time being.


There would be nothing wrong with a September 2012 DS release, especially if the game included incentives to buy a 3DS. Should Generation VI be released in 2013, there is no major reason to worry about raising 3DS sales just yet. Let's not forget that Diamond and Pearl were released almost two years after the DS, and we're only now getting to the 3DS's first anniversary.

The only thing that I see as divisive is expecting people to buy a new system for a game that barely utilizes its hardware.
But it can't have incentives as I stupidly just realized late into this debate. As I mentioned DS gameplay is emulated on the 3DS, and has NOTHING to do with its wireless capabilities nor can it magically conjure 3D.And yes diamond and pearl were released 2 years into the DS' life cycle, but by golly we're gonna need 6 months to that point come September in the middle of a generation. Continuing on the DS would only be for convenience's sake, and that's it. Consumer wise it makes the most sense, but industry wise it could be risk. No point in repeating myself, but for the sake of getting new customers moving to 3DS makes absolute sense, no matter what the hell platform BW were on.
No one said anything about magically producing 3D; what Silktree said was how the communications CPU is different to the main one.

People are still buying Nintendo DS consoles. It's not like since the Nintendo 3DS was released, people everywhere suddenly stopped buying the DS generation and Nintendo are still producing them (even launching new colours after the 3DS' launch). Also, there's the issues regarding Generation VI that I mentioned earlier in this thread. Yes, if a main series game was released for the 3DS it would sell and would shift a few consoles along with it...but if they released it for the DS, TPC and Nintendo can target those millions more who only own a DS (perhaps those who only got back into the franchise through HGSS and BW as well) and those who own a 3DS.
 

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I'm going to lol so hard if Gray is announced for the 3DS and all of this speculation turns out to be false.

But seriously, who knows what will happen. A DS release or 3DS release both have their merits and downsides; there is no obvious route Game Freak will take. People need to realize this, and stop making assumptions based on their own opinions.
 
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