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Knight of Veilstone theory

elementcollector1

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WARNING: SPOILERS FOR LEGENDS: ARCEUS AHEAD!

There's plenty of legends about ancient Sinnoh that Legends could've touched on, but aside from the Sea's Myth (which was newly introduced for exactly that purpose), they don't seem to have featured any of them. While it makes sense for them not to talk about Pokemon and human marriage, and not to make the player afraid of the Lake Trio before they had the opportunity to help the player, a certain myth goes oddly unmentioned. Found in Canalave Library in modern-day Sinnoh with most of the others, it reads as follows:

"A young man, callow and foolish in innocence, came to own a sword.
With it, he smote Pokémon, which gave sustenance, with carefree abandon.
Those not taken as food, he discarded, with no afterthought.
The following year, no Pokémon appeared. Larders grew bare.
The young man, seeking the missing Pokémon, journeyed afar.
Long did he search. And far and wide, too, until one he did find.
Asked he, "Why do you hide?" To which the Pokémon replied…
"If you bear your sword to bring harm upon us, with claws and fangs, we will exact a toll."
"From your kind we will take our toll, for it must be done."
"Done it must be to guard ourselves and for it, I apologize."
To the skies, the young man shouted his dismay.
"In having found the sword, I have lost so much."
"Gorged with power, I grew blind to Pokémon being alive."
"I will never fall savage again. This sword I denounce and forsake."
"I plead for forgiveness, for I was but a fool."
So saying, the young man hurled the sword to the ground, snapping it.
Seeing this, the Pokémon disappeared to a place beyond seeing…"

Most strangely of all, this myth is titled 'Veilstone's Myth', suggesting it has some connection to Veilstone City. Many have concluded from Veilstone's proximity to Turnback Cave as well as the final line of the tale that the Pokemon the knight eventually found was none other than Giratina, and I personally agree - but there's more to it than that. Who is the Knight of Veilstone, and why exactly did he cut so many Pokemon down?

There are several hints in the course of Legends: Arceus that this knight may in fact be none other than Commander Kamado of the Galaxy Expedition Team. Kamado’s backstory, sparse as it was, is revealed by Beni, a childhood friend. The two had their hometown burnt to the ground by a maddened Pokemon, and Kamado and Beni immigrated together to the Hisui region to build a place where humans could live free from the fear of Pokemon. (Incidentally, this Pokemon was very likely to be a Gyarados, considering a certain Pokedex entry from Pearl: “In ancient literature, there is a record of a Gyarados that razed a village when violence flared.”). But Kamado and Beni are both old men by the time Legends occurs - what, exactly, were they doing with their time in between their hometown burning and the events of the game?

Our first clue is found in the Cobalt Coastlands, an area which encompasses those parts of Hisui that would one day become the cities of Sunyshore and Veilstone in the modern-day Sinnoh region. This area is stated to be where the Ginkgo Guild landed in Hisui (even to the point where a specific area is named ‘Ginkgo Landing’). The Galaxy Team wouldn’t have existed yet, and the Ginkgo Guild are known to trade with the Diamond and Pearl clans (earlier arrivals than the Galaxy Team and Jubilife Village peoples), so Kamado and Beni would have had to hitch a ride with them. The ships found here are sunken and capsized, with holes in the hull and crates of goods washing ashore, indicating this landing was not a pleasant one - and, most importantly, wild Gyarados can be found nearby. Also nearby is Deadwood Haunt, an area filled with Ghost-types - quite possibly the slain remnants of those the Veilstone Knight cut down. The Ginkgo Guild aren’t seen in this area (to be fair, they aren’t encountered anywhere outside Jubilife Village with the exception of Volo), so it is safe to say they no longer consider this area an ongoing base of operations. True to form, Jubilife Village features a second landing dock at Prelude Beach that is much safer, and it can be presumed that the Ginkgo Guild choose to sail here by the time of Legends: Arceus instead of to the much more treacherous Coastlands. An unknown doctor found just outside the Village entrance from Prelude Beach also remarks that Jubilife Village has been around for at least 10 years, and that 10 years ago it was little more than a poorly-defended series of huts along the beach. But, regardless, it cannot be understated that the very first location in Hisui that Kamado would have set foot upon was not at all distant from what would become Veilstone City, and that the Pokemon who destroyed the ships may well have been additional Gyarados - something Kamado would not have easily forgotten.

Our second clue comes from Kamado himself. Kamado carries himself as a stern, firm and even cruel man over the course of the story, but this masks the young country boy frightened of powerful Pokemon that he became in his youth. Kamado, likely traumatized by the razing of his childhood home, would be an ideal candidate to take up arms against Pokemon without caring for sustenance or utility - it would be simple revenge against the creatures that he perceived had more power than they should.

The very last clue that ties this all together is Kamado’s armor. Seen only during the events of the story when he abandons his facade of benevolence in favor of war, and again when he is challenged in the Proving Grounds, this armor is stated by Kamado to be a traditional Galarian set. But if Kamado has a full set of Galarian armor, it stands to reason he would have had a Galarian sword or other such weapon along with it, as most knights had dedicated swords or weapons of choice. So where’s the sword? Why don’t we see it on his person, or hidden away somewhere?

Well… it’s broken. He threw it away, so naturally it wouldn’t be on his person anymore even though the armor was kept.

To piece it all together, here is the following summary of events:

-At some point in their younger years, Kamado and Beni’s hometown is burned to the ground by a rampaging Pokemon. If this Pokemon was indeed Gyarados, it’s possible the town was undergoing some form of violent political conflict, which Kamado would have been influenced by.

-Kamado, traumatized by these events, escapes with Beni to immigrate to the Hisui region with the help of the Ginkgo Guild, who were previously catering to the more historical immigrants that formed the Diamond and Pearl clans. It’s possible that in exchange for this, the Ginkgo Guild eventually obtained exclusive foreign mercantile rights in Kamado and Beni’s founded village. Kamado and Beni, after the ships carrying them crash at the Ginkgo Landing, subsist off of the land, hunting Pokemon for food. At some point during these events, Kamado obtains a full suit of Galarian armor and sword.

-Kamado, now a young man seeking revenge against the powerful Pokemon that destroyed his hometown and nearly killed him, carries out the events of Veilstone’s Myth, slaughtering with little care for food or use. The Pokemon of the Cobalt Coastlands learn to hide from his presence lest they be cut down as well. This leads to the creation of Deadwood Haunt, filled with the slain spirits of the Pokemon he selfishly killed.

-A year passes, and Kamado and Beni find that their supply of food derived from Pokemon is running low. Kamado journeys ‘far and wide’ to find where the Pokemon have fled to, eventually arriving at Turnback Cave and encountering Giratina. Giratina, aware of the sheer amount of death this lone man has caused, informs him that revenge will be taken if he continues. Kamado, horrified by the monster he has become, forsakes the sword.

-Larders are still bare, and as such Kamado and Beni would need to travel elsewhere to find a sustainable source of food, likely meeting up with the Diamond and Pearl clans along the way. They eventually end up at the site of Jubilife Village, and establish a new dock at Prelude Beach, meeting up with other members of the Ginkgo Guild (or sending off the survivors that may have accompanied them) to establish trade once again. Jubilife Village and the Galaxy HQ are founded, and Kamado quietly keeps the armor that came with the sword - a means of defense, rather than attack. Kamado shelves his open violence and portrays himself as a powerful, respectable and mature leader - but the country boy terrified of Pokemon never truly goes away.

-At least ten years later, Jubilife Village is thriving, but people don't really make an effort to live alongside Pokemon the way the Diamond and Pearl clans due, likely in part due to Kamado's isolationist influence. That is, until some 15-year-old kid just falls out of the sky.
 
This is honestly mostly airtight and pretty convincing. I especially like the detail of the area's ghosts possibly being those slain by the swordsman.

My main counterpoint would be that I would expect for something to become a myth, it would have to have happened much longer ago. The time period of LA just seems to recent to me.

That said, I do have my own ideas of Kamado's life (much of this influenced by discussions on Twitter and elsewhere):

Kamado and Beni's town likely was destroyed by a Gyarados, the idea I most subscribe to is that it was a town destroyed by rampaging Gyarados creating the Lake of Rage.

Your version does paint this as happening when Kamado was much younger, but honestly, I don't think he was. The wedding picture on his desk always stood out as significant to me as a way to explain his pain and hatred of Pokemon-- I strongly suspect his wife died in the Gyarados attack.

But why is Kamado, who normally wears very traditional Japanese attire and is almost certainly Johtonian (when his dialect slips at the end of the game, in the Japanese it apparently becomes a Kansai dialect-- it was localized in English as country/Southern-esque because it communicates "rural" to us as Kansai would to Japanese audiences) wearing a very western-style suit and tie for his wedding photo? And why does he own Galarian armor? It's possible that these are both clues that his wife was Galarian.

Also your version does have him repenting to Giratina when I don't think he has turned around like that and at all processed his grief/Pokemon issues until we see it at the end of PLA. It's certainly possible that he had some earlier progression from "violent and murderous" to "just passively disliking Pokemon" and then finally getting over that disdain and distrust when we see it, but I kinda think it's cleaner if he just has the one big revelatory moment we witness.
 
Your version does paint this as happening when Kamado was much younger, but honestly, I don't think he was. The wedding picture on his desk always stood out as significant to me as a way to explain his pain and hatred of Pokemon-- I strongly suspect his wife died in the Gyarados attack.

But why is Kamado, who normally wears very traditional Japanese attire and is almost certainly Johtonian (when his dialect slips at the end of the game, in the Japanese it apparently becomes a Kansai dialect-- it was localized in English as country/Southern-esque because it communicates "rural" to us as Kansai would to Japanese audiences) wearing a very western-style suit and tie for his wedding photo? And why does he own Galarian armor? It's possible that these are both clues that his wife was Galarian.

Also your version does have him repenting to Giratina when I don't think he has turned around like that and at all processed his grief/Pokemon issues until we see it at the end of PLA. It's certainly possible that he had some earlier progression from "violent and murderous" to "just passively disliking Pokemon" and then finally getting over that disdain and distrust when we see it, but I kinda think it's cleaner if he just has the one big revelatory moment we witness.

I took a look at the wedding photo, and while I can't get any better resolution at the moment (unless someone has a texture rip?) it definitely does look like they're wearing Western marriage clothing:

1650578885322.png


If Kamado's wife was Galarian, it's quite possible he held significant rank in Galarian society - a burgher at the very least, as these were required to acquire and own armor in case of war. This would also explain how he might have met or contacted Laventon, who is known to be Galarian as well. I don't know when Laventon arrived at Jubilife Village, though I suspect it wasn't when it was founded (a little over 10 years prior to the events of Legends, according to a random doctor NPC I found at night outside the Prelude Beach village entrance recently).

I definitely think you're right that Kamado is Johtonian, as Beni (who came from the same town) is a ninja. He would have likely come from the famous Iga or Koga clans, as they're both located in the Kansai region - this would also explain Kamado's accent when he drops his refined demeanor. Most of Johto's towns and cities appear to fall within this area, so the pair could be from any one of them, though I would strongly suspect Mahogany Town due to its proximity to the Lake of Rage and its slogan "Welcome to the Home of the Ninja!"

And yet... I just don't see any good explanation for Kamado becoming a burgher, much less an actual knight. In addition, there's this huge wrench that I recently discovered:

1650578606514.png
1650578637430.png


In Pokemon Masters EX, Wikstrom (the guy on the left and a member of the Kalos Elite Four) has this to say about his armor:

"Long has this suit of armor—this treasure—been held by the esteemed knights of my family."
"Generation after generation, we have protected the land of Kalos, living in peace with the Pokémon that dwell there."
"Long, long ago, the land of Kalos was swept up in a ruthless war, you see..."
"My ancestors banded together with Pokémon to rescue the townspeople from a cruel fate... So 'twas written in the annals of history."

Meanwhile, Kamado says this about his armor:

1650578838454.png


So where does this style of armor actually come from? The closest I could find is this modern interpretation of a jousting knight's armor or this more general 16th century knight armor interpretation, as well as this Italian replica that is based on the armor of Roberto of Sanseverino (note especially the similarity around the hand plates and leggings):

1650579827779.png
1650579999124.png


I'm going to ask around on Reddit and see if I can't get a more specific match, but I'm pretty sure these are close - though '16th century' doesn't exactly tell me where they're from...
 
I guess I imagined that Kamado's Galarian wife lived with him in (you're right, good catch on the slogan) Mahogany. That maybe Galar had sent a party of delegates or something to PokeJapan. And the armor was perhaps an heirloom of her family's. But it's true that we really have no idea and he could have moved back and forth between regions.

Good catch on the possibility of a Laventon/wife connection, I hadn't thought of that.

I'm not sure what to make of the armors seemingly being either (or both) Kalosian and/or Galarian. Could it be the color/material? The design is shared but the colors are different, either because of the available materials or sort of like different teams having different jerseys?

I'm not sure what to make of it, except that it's certainly no mistake that the armors are nearly identical.

A side note: I think it's neat that we can track Wally's family from Johto to Sinnoh to Hoenn, as well as the possibility that his ancestors knew Koga's/Janine's and/or the Shadow Triad's.
 
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Reddit has answered my pleas, and the answer is...

It's neither.

The closest historical match is 16th century German light cavalry armor, more specifically Maximilian armor. This armor was designed to imitate fashionable European clothing at the time, and was produced in Germany and Italy and spread to large parts of Europe. Maximilian armor was worn by English King Henry VIII (1491-1547), but was only considered militarily useful between 1515-1530 and was mostly commissioned by wealthy noblemen as an antique plate armor after this period.

The Maximilian armor was named and made, presumably, for Emperor Maximilian I, who ruled the Holy Roman Empire from 1508 to 1519. During this time, Maximilian I waged several wars against the French, occupying parts of current northeastern and southeastern France (Dendemille, Couriway and Lavelle in Kalos would probably be under Roman-equivalent occupation). More importantly, Maximilian married Mary of Burgundy in 1477, who ruled the Burgundian state (an area in France south of the parts Maximilian was busy conquering):

1650586252953.png


From this, it's entirely possible that the set gifted to the Galarian king eventually found its way to Kamado (or was replicated by Galarians), while the set actually belonging to Maximilian I's equivalent could have been passed down (or similarly replicated) and eventually found its way to Wikstrom. Notably, according to Galarian lore, this could have been during the time of Calyrex's rule, indicating Calyrex might have been the one to receive the armor (which I now have a mighty need to see drawn).

So while this doesn't tell us a whole lot about Kamado's history, it's at the very least still likely that he's either Galarian nobility through marriage or has connections to Galarian nobility, enough so to buy the armor. The color scheme is actually likely to be due to either black paint (a mixture of fat and soot) or oil blackening, both of which were commonly done to improve rust resistance. Wikstrom's armor, on the other hand, is stated to be polished frequently by him, and thus wouldn't develop or retain such a coating. In other words, Wikstrom's in it for the looks and Kamado's in it for long-term utility.

Still trying to wrap my head around exactly how Kamado would have acquired this armor - he can't have gotten it ceremonially, might have gotten it as a hand-me-down or a replica (but would have to pay for the latter), or may have even found it (or stole it?) Regardless, wherever he got the armor he probably got a sword as well, as they're rarely separate purchases for burghers, knights or even wealthy commissioners looking for replicas.

EDIT: While we never actually see it, Wikstrom frequently mentions being (and rarely owning) a blade, specifically calling himself 'the Elite Four's famed Blade of hardened Steel'. Yet another implication that Kamado would own a blade as well, given their connection via the armor.
 
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Still trying to wrap my head around exactly how Kamado would have acquired this armor - he can't have gotten it ceremonially, might have gotten it as a hand-me-down or a replica (but would have to pay for the latter), or may have even found it (or stole it?) Regardless, wherever he got the armor he probably got a sword as well, as they're rarely separate purchases for burghers, knights or even wealthy commissioners looking for replicas.
During the Sengoku Jidai Japan bought European armor because it was more protective than locally made armor, due to Japan's iron deposits being of poor quality. It's possible Kamado has traditional Galarian armor because his family bought it in the Pokémon equivalent of that period.
 
Another thing to mention - Commander Kamado's attire when not wearing the armor appears to be specifically a montsuki, a traditional Japanese robe worn for extremely formal occasions such as weddings...

Or funerals.

1650590587240.png
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...Did he just put it on to mourn and never take it off after his wife died (since he can't have worn it at the wedding)? We never see her in Legends: Arceus, so something must have happened. Probably a Gyarados.

Also, the two white emblems on either side of the robe are apparently his family crest (unless they're like the ones on the outfit at far left, and are just 'generic'?) I don't suppose we see them anywhere else?

As for Kamado's family/ancestors buying or owning the armor during the Warring States period, that does track - I didn't know Japan was open for trade that long ago. It would also explain why the armor is black as opposed to silver, as Japanese armorers frequently lacquered their armor in a variety of colors (navy blue, for example, was called 'kachi iro' after the Japanese word kachi (to win), so samurai believed it would bring good luck).

EDIT: Just realized this isn't the only time we've seen a sword snapped in half in Pokemon. Here's the sword of Maximilian I (circa 1480):

1650594690849.png


Notice the inscription on the blade? This was common practice at the time, typically a Bible psalm or other such religious line in Latin (the lingua franca of the age). And... I'll just leave this here:

1650594898824.png
 
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Another thing to mention - Commander Kamado's attire when not wearing the armor appears to be specifically a montsuki, a traditional Japanese robe worn for extremely formal occasions such as weddings...

Or funerals.

View attachment 158669View attachment 158670View attachment 158671

...Did he just put it on to mourn and never take it off after his wife died (since he can't have worn it at the wedding)? We never see her in Legends: Arceus, so something must have happened. Probably a Gyarados.
Okay, I love this detail. I doubt the thinking is that he literally never wears anything else, but wearing funeral attire is a pretty good way to signal to the player that he's mourning someone, and it tracks with the picture of him and his wife wearing different wedding attire, his seeming lack of wife now, and his animosity toward Pokemon.
 
I get the appeal of this theory, but the original Canalave myths obviously predate the PLA era by a long time. Do you really think that Kamado murdering Hisui Pokemon and being punished by Giratina wouldn't have been referenced at any point? Come on. Likewise, the Veilstone myth not being referenced at all should make you question its relevance. I strongly doubt that Giratina ever apologized to anyone.

Finally, just because Kamado wears a Galarian armor doesn't mean that he's from Galar. Lest we forget that he wears a kimono most of the time, and the Japanese version reveals that he has a kansai accent. He's most likely from Ecruteak, although it isn't a perfect theory since we only have limited references. I should create a separate thread about that.
 
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...No one in this thread thinks he's Galarian though, we all agree he's from Johto. That's mostly what we've been talking about.
 
I get the appeal of this theory, but the original Canalave myths obviously predate the PLA era by a long time. Do you really think that Kamado murdering Hisui Pokemon and being punished by Giratina wouldn't have been referenced at any point? Come on. Likewise, the Veilstone myth not being referenced at all should make you question its relevance. I strongly doubt that Giratina ever apologized to anyone.

Finally, just because Kamado wears a Galarian armor doesn't mean that he's from Galar. Lest we forget that he wears a kimono most of the time, and the Japanese version reveals that he has a kansai accent. He's most likely from Ecruteak, although it isn't a perfect theory since we only have limited references. I should create a separate thread about that.

What's so obvious about it? We thought Spear Pillar was destroyed in 'ancient' times too before the release of Legends.

And yes, I most certainly do. Who was going to tell someone? Beni? The same guy who openly admits to the player that he'll kill them if they proceed? This kind of thing would obviously be kept a secret, that's the whole point.

As for Giratina not apologizing to anyone, how would anyone know that for certain? In Platinum Giratina was explicitly shown to not be violent and destructive - no matter what you choose during its fight in the Distortion World, it accepts the outcome - much to Cyrus' amazement. Professor Laventon also theorizes after Giratina's capture that it allowed itself to be caught because, essentially, it no longer wanted to be villainous.

Finally, what exactly is the Veilstone myth supposed to be 'relevant' to? It still shows up in Brilliant Diamond/Shining Pearl, so it's not like they removed it as a retcon. In fact, they specifically added a legend in the Canalave Library solely to tie in with Legends, meaning they want the player to investigate these myths.
 
Please note: The thread is from 2 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
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