Kotaku calls original Gen 3 games "one of the worst" ...thoughts?

(!) Let's battle!
Joined
Mar 29, 2011
Messages
604
Reaction score
1
Speaking of unpopular opinions, gen III probably saved the pokemon franchise for me. I never bought Gold/Silver/Crystal because I didn't like any of the pokemon and that was arguably my least favorite arc of the anime. It was hardly worth it to get teased and bullied over something so uninteresting. Even to this day I really didn't like playing through the original Gold/Silver. While the second region was nice in theory, it was so unfleshed out and the game is so clunky that it just didn't hold up to someone who already lacked nostalgia in the first place. Though gen II isn't my least favorite, that's only because the remakes fixed some of the bigger problems of the originals.

Gen III is the first pokemon game that actually felt... finished. The battle system was fixed, the storyline was simple but not annoying and in your face, pokemon designs with a nice variety, and a unique region that still hasn't been matched IMO. I've been able to replay R/S/E and Firered and Leafgreen multiple times, wheras trying to play gens I and II get old really fast as they are so humdrum compared to their remakes. Though I could see backwards compatibility being somewhat annoying, I also make special teams for each games so that's never going to be a gamebreaking thing. I rarely even use the pokemon I port into the new genrations.

They are very flawed... but every pokemon game is unbelievably flawed. What you like all depends on which flaws you tolerate. That's also why I have high hopes for the remakes, as they can fix the flaws and make my favorites even better.
 
New Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
218
Reaction score
0
Well that makes sense, and it's pretty obvious. But the DS games look prettier, people should get better so that they can hack it more often. I guess there's no hope of people hacking Gen. 6 anytime soon, then. LOL
I agree. While this is going to sound very blunt, I have to say it--Gen 3's graphics haven't aged very well. In fact, I'll argue that they've aged worse than Gen 2's. While the Gen 2 graphics had less color and detail, they looked pretty good for what the GBC was capable of. On the other hand, the GBA was capable of far more than what FRLG and especially, RSE gave us. The tilesets were blocky and awkwardly-colored (many of the RSE tiles, in particular, looked like straight revamps from the 8-bit games), and many of the Pokémon sprites were downright ugly. (Especially for the first 251, many of whom looked worse than they did in GSC and even, Yellow.) These were obviously GF's first 16-bit games, and you could tell.

Graphics improved a lot with DPP, and they got even better with HGSS-onward. Sadly, DS hacking hasn't developed to the point that GBA hacking has (and it probably never will), but it is possible to make the Gen 3 games look more like Gens 4 and 5 with new sprites, tilesets, and overworlds.
 
Drifter
Joined
Feb 21, 2009
Messages
545
Reaction score
152
Man reading this makes me question myself. Here I am, a guy in his late 20s who started at Pokemon Blue but happily calls Gen III his favorite (primarily for being an adventurers wet dream as far as Pokemon went) and completely heralds Hoenn (and GF itself at the time) for having the guts for doing everything that it was faulted for (and honestly, from the gameplay/mechanics aspect, succeeding handsomely in every shape and form) since they proved incapable of being able to balance it.

Hell, I was willing to ignore RS (due to how disappointing Gen II was) until some extremely detailed info on the games and dem monsters was given out on a forum I hung out in way back when. Then again, I gave zero craps when GS was announced in a gaming mag (and I liked Blue a lot) until the passing mention of breeding was brought up. Now, I just came from a very long satisfying period with Dragon Warrior Monsters (like best monster sim ever) and I jumped at how Pokemon was gonna handle it (such a fool I was). But that's neither here nor there...

Right, that's the thing I'm less a Pokemon fan and more as a gamer. I look for different things and as far as the twin vanilla main titles goes RS was THE solid gameplay-wise. Exploration, diverse environments, higher leveled enemies (who get smarter in Emerald), cool vivid tough Pokemon who could all fill a niche before dying, those much needed game mechanic changes. While no "post game" things like Regi's contests and full undersea exploration and such are usually left for post credits which still gave the game high replay value on it own which only increased the fun factor.
Let's not forget that at the time many of us were still trying to make heads and tails of the IV/EV system and how to make Natures work. It was fun having long online discussions over that.

While I'm keeping what I think of Gen II out of this thread I will go on a limb and say that HAD many passable ideas (many of which became key elements to its successors systems) but simply failed in every corner to make them work since it never tried to sit and actually utilize any of it.
Also, Crystal tried very, very hard to become its own beast and did (unwittingly) create a standard in future narratives. Bless its heart. Was very disappointed that HGSS removed a particular scene in Burned Tower really showing off what a petulant and honestly vile little jackass that trash talking weakling (the rival) was.

Also, some fun food for thought: Many of you older types should know quite well that supposed golden-age of Pokemon was actually quite an ugly period with the franchise itself eventually losing steam due to its oversaturation in the market. You couldn't escape it, and honestly many (esp. parents w/their crying wallets and many like myself who dabble farther in other things) were getting tired of it. Let's not forget how bad things got when it came to those cards. Lotta media backlash (mostly smear campaigns yes) centering on scamming and thefts. Hell even some court TV shows got in on it.

The anime kinda shot itself in the foot during that period what with how Johto was running things till the fantastic Silver Conference. I only caught those via reruns years later myself. Advance Generation was still the same ol' but just with better writi--oh, the Misty thing.

As for the article, Kotaku isn't really known for its journalistic integrity and having headlines like that proves it's just about click-baiting.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
4,564
Reaction score
964
I notice the article doesn't spend much actual time bashing Gen 3, and the author even admits that she overall loves the generation herself.
 
Face the Darkness
Joined
Aug 1, 2013
Messages
717
Reaction score
1,069
Ahh gen 3 what a strange beast. I myself stopped playing before gen 3 even came out. It was actually the card game that got me out if Pokemon for a bit. It was XD that rekindle my love for the games but I've still never been able to pick up a card without feeling ripped off.

As a, result I only ever played Emerald, and only once compared to my 7-10 other play throughs of a every other game. So I'm excited to see what I might have missed.

I have to say this article got me thinking about my own least favorite Pokemon main game; X and Y. From what I recall Emerald really shook up the formula for me so it still kept me entertained throughout. But X and Y were formulaic, to long, and far slower despite not having large water routes to blame it on.

So yeah opinions.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 9, 2012
Messages
4,564
Reaction score
964
I noticed an article in CVG where they mentioned "full 360 degree movement (unlike the eight-directional movement in XY)". Does that mean what I think it means? This screenshot seems to confirm it -- note Brendan is standing still while not perfectly aligned with the grass tiles (like you'd see when walking/running in XY).
 
Member
Joined
Oct 3, 2013
Messages
451
Reaction score
5
I noticed an article in CVG where they mentioned "full 360 degree movement (unlike the eight-directional movement in XY)". Does that mean what I think it means? This screenshot seems to confirm it -- note Brendan is standing still while not perfectly aligned with the grass tiles (like you'd see when walking/running in XY).
Huh, neat. I guess. Grid-walking is actually kinda nice considering the way grass and everything works.
 
The Charming Fool
Joined
Oct 10, 2013
Messages
719
Reaction score
163
I don't get how RS could be considered worse than Gen I and II. RS introduced a relatively deep storyline with interesting ideas such as man's careful balance with nature. It also revolutionized the series in terms of game mechanics. In comparison to Emerald though, RS are definitely some of the worst in the series.
 
So you want to be a hero?
Joined
Sep 1, 2009
Messages
1,068
Reaction score
1
Key word: 'one of' the worst. With only six generations of Pokemon, being one of the worst is not quite being one of the best. (I know that's probably not what they intended, but I'm pretty glass-half-full here).
 
Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2011
Messages
859
Reaction score
2
I noticed an article in CVG where they mentioned "full 360 degree movement (unlike the eight-directional movement in XY)". Does that mean what I think it means? This screenshot seems to confirm it -- note Brendan is standing still while not perfectly aligned with the grass tiles (like you'd see when walking/running in XY).
ORAS has full 360 movement if you use the analogue stick. Unless you're sneaking though, I find using the D-pad for grid movement to be better.
 
Member
Joined
May 1, 2010
Messages
206
Reaction score
18
Well, I agree with her. Not bad games, had a lot of improvements in both graphic and gameplay.. but I wasn't overwhelmed like I was after GSC.
 
New Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
2
Reaction score
0
I'm glad with all the seasons but seasons 1-3 I believe they should stay the way they are.
 
Disturb not the harmony
Joined
Apr 6, 2005
Messages
1,155
Reaction score
12
Coming off of Gen 2, Gen 3 seemed like a major step back. No day/night, can't return to the previous regions, can't trade with the old games, only 8 badges, can't catch the other game's legendary, no new types, and contests, which were promoted as the big new feature, weren't that exciting of an addition. Then there was the addition of natures, and replacing Stat Exp. with EVs, both of which forced you to focus on a Pokemon's Attack or Special attack making it much harder to pull off a mixed sweeper, and also made the metagame less accessible. Now, granted, accessibility has improved in recent generations (super training is a godsend!), and nowadays, it's hard to imagine Pokemon without figuring out the right nature and planning out which stats will get those precious 510 EV points, but at the time it was a huge change and just didn't feel right to me.

But that's just my 2¢.
 
New Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
218
Reaction score
0
Coming off of Gen 2, Gen 3 seemed like a major step back. No day/night, can't return to the previous regions, can't trade with the old games, only 8 badges, can't catch the other game's legendary, no new types, and contests, which were promoted as the big new feature, weren't that exciting of an addition. Then there was the addition of natures, and replacing Stat Exp. with EVs, both of which forced you to focus on a Pokemon's Attack or Special attack making it much harder to pull off a mixed sweeper, and also made the metagame less accessible. Now, granted, accessibility has improved in recent generations (super training is a godsend!), and nowadays, it's hard to imagine Pokemon without figuring out the right nature and planning out which stats will get those precious 510 EV points, but at the time it was a huge change and just didn't feel right to me.

But that's just my 2¢.
I agree with you 100%, especially on Natures and EVs.

If there's one thing I wish was never added to the games, it's those two things. In the first two Generations, it was very possible to use a wild-caught, in-game team to reasonable success in the Stadium games and even, link battles, provided that the Pokémon had good movesets. With no Natures, no EV cap, and only 15 IVs, a Pokémon basically had to have IVs of 0 across the board before it would be unusable. Breeding was only a necessity if you wanted a specific Egg Move and/or wanted to play Little Cup, and even that was less of a hassle thanks to the lack of Abilities/Natures and perfect IVs being less of a necessity.

And, yes, I also blame the stat system of Gens 3 and later for the eventual Power Creep of the DS games. Thanks to the limit imposed by Natures and EVs, Pokémon now needed more wildly specialized stats to function at their peak, hence the Base 135 Attacks and Base 120 Speeds that seem to have been handed out to later Gen Pokémon like candy. And, with that also came more wildly overpowered moves (ie. Post-Gen 3 Outrage and Draco Meteor), things like Dragon Dance, Quiver Dance, and Choice Items that didn't do anything but jack up already astronomical stats even higher, and amazing, completely OP abilities that start weather, raise Attack/Speed/Evasion, etc, being handed out to everyone and their mother. And, more recently, we have Mega Evolutions and their wildly inflated stats, all just so the older Pokémon don't permanently fall behind. (If you're wondering why it's mostly Gen 1-3 Pokémon getting them instead of Gen 4-6, there you go.)

If there's one thing I wish XY had done, it's nuke backwards compatibility and remove Natures and the EV cap once and for all. Put a hard end to the Power Creep.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
1,664
Reaction score
1,226
Coming off of Gen 2, Gen 3 seemed like a major step back. No day/night, can't return to the previous regions, can't trade with the old games, only 8 badges, can't catch the other game's legendary, no new types, and contests, which were promoted as the big new feature, weren't that exciting of an addition. Then there was the addition of natures, and replacing Stat Exp. with EVs, both of which forced you to focus on a Pokemon's Attack or Special attack making it much harder to pull off a mixed sweeper, and also made the metagame less accessible. Now, granted, accessibility has improved in recent generations (super training is a godsend!), and nowadays, it's hard to imagine Pokemon without figuring out the right nature and planning out which stats will get those precious 510 EV points, but at the time it was a huge change and just didn't feel right to me.

But that's just my 2¢.
I agree with you 100%, especially on Natures and EVs.

If there's one thing I wish was never added to the games, it's those two things. In the first two Generations, it was very possible to use a wild-caught, in-game team to reasonable success in the Stadium games and even, link battles, provided that the Pokémon had good movesets. With no Natures, no EV cap, and only 15 IVs, a Pokémon basically had to have IVs of 0 across the board before it would be unusable. Breeding was only a necessity if you wanted a specific Egg Move and/or wanted to play Little Cup, and even that was less of a hassle thanks to the lack of Abilities/Natures and perfect IVs being less of a necessity.

And, yes, I also blame the stat system of Gens 3 and later for the eventual Power Creep of the DS games. Thanks to the limit imposed by Natures and EVs, Pokémon now needed more wildly specialized stats to function at their peak, hence the Base 135 Attacks and Base 120 Speeds that seem to have been handed out to later Gen Pokémon like candy. And, with that also came more wildly overpowered moves (ie. Post-Gen 3 Outrage and Draco Meteor), things like Dragon Dance, Quiver Dance, and Choice Items that didn't do anything but jack up already astronomical stats even higher, and amazing, completely OP abilities that start weather, raise Attack/Speed/Evasion, etc, being handed out to everyone and their mother. And, more recently, we have Mega Evolutions and their wildly inflated stats, all just so the older Pokémon don't permanently fall behind. (If you're wondering why it's mostly Gen 1-3 Pokémon getting them instead of Gen 4-6, there you go.)

If there's one thing I wish XY had done, it's nuke backwards compatibility and remove Natures and the EV cap once and for all. Put a hard end to the Power Creep.
Its not exactly hard to breed for this stuff anymore though, want a proper nature? Take one of your pokemon that has the nature breed it with the pokemon while holding an ever stone, want the ivs and the nature? go to your friend safari with a synchronize pokemon with the nature you want. Yeah it putsmore thought into it but you get more reward from it.

Yeah nuke backwards compatibility screw over those people who have been collecting events (legitimately) that have been breeding and ev training ( the hard way before x/y) for 15+ years just so you can catch a pokemon in the wild and use it right away with some movepool tweaks see how well that goes over in the community it would be worse then r/s's backlash for lack of backwards compatibility. In R/S it was like all 2 people who found a shiny couldn't transfer them and everyone else with their lvl 100 charizards couldn't transfer them, you saw how people quit over just that they came back yes but not until fr/lg or d/p in most cases.

if that happened with x/y then all thousand people who've found a shiny by now, all the fans who got all the events ( mew, deoxys etc.) would be out of luck see how they handle it, it would be the end of pokemon.

Really coming from someone who reset his emerald version 100 times over when he was little I never saw this issue of transferabilty until I got my own event pokemon because to me those pokemon where always the same pokemon I just reset the games and they got reset to their original forms. I didn't care if I could transfer them that was a nice surprise for me when I found out I could in d/p. its a shame the originals were hated for such trivial stuff.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
May 4, 2007
Messages
13,955
Reaction score
1,773
The power creep started becoming obvious Gen V, and it came from the realization that well-rounded stats, like Arcanine's were crap.

Having no EV caps (but there technically was) would have only accelerated this. With EVs, Pokemon were able to specialize stats without Game Freak having to intervene with giving everyone and their mother base 120+ stats. Eventually, that stopped working and its probably because we have so many Pokemon, that keeping all stats in the same range would lead to repeats. The power creep was going to happen regardless--its happened everywhere else (just look at how bad the first Yugioh cards were compared to now). The only way the power creep couldn't happen is if new mechanics weren't introduced (notice how our items also received a "power creep" in terms of usefulness? And that didn't happen until Gen IV/V) and new Pokemon were introduced. Gen I Pokemon were optimized for Gen I mechanics, of course they'd look bad as the game progresses. However, if the game doesn't change, why should we keep buying them?

You know what else the lack of EV caps help? High base-stat Pokemon. If everyone could maximize their stats, the only difference would be the species' base stats. That means Pokemon like Garchomp no longer have to compromise* between being bulky or offensive--they could just fuck things up. Pokemon with lower base stats won't have a chance against them because their offensive stats will never reach a point to be able to go over another Pokemon's defensive stats.

*This compromise thing actually also helps with differentiation within species. Is that Garchomp running Choice Band? Is it bulky, SD, or Chain Chomp?

EDIT: Also the biggest power creep by far was Mega Evolution--and that was an attempt to make old Pokemon relevant again. How in the world was Gen III responsible for that?
 
Last edited:
New Member
Joined
Sep 24, 2014
Messages
218
Reaction score
0
Yeah nuke backwards compatibility screw over those people who have been collecting events (legitimately) that have been breeding and ev training ( the hard way before x/y) for 15+ years just so you can catch a pokemon in the wild and use it right away with some movepool tweaks see how well that goes over in the community it would be worse then r/s's backlash for lack of backwards compatibility. In R/S it was like all 2 people who found a shiny couldn't transfer them and everyone else with their lvl 100 charizards couldn't transfer them, you saw how people quit over just that they came back yes but not until fr/lg or d/p in most cases.

if that happened with x/y then all thousand people who've found a shiny by now, all the fans who got all the events ( mew, deoxys etc.) would be out of luck see how they handle it, it would be the end of pokemon.
I don't think the backlash would've been as large this time around. After what happened with RSE, veterans would now know what to expect from a hard compatibility kill, so it would be less of a shock, and brand new fans don't care either way. Plus, the Kalos Dex is way larger than the Hoenn one was, so fewer species would be left behind, and any others would return in ORAS.

(Besides, XY are already pretty much a compatibility kill for anyone who isn't paying for Pokémon Bank and owns a Gen 5 game.)

The power creep started becoming obvious Gen V, and it came from the realization that well-rounded stats, like Arcanine's were crap.
Not in the first two Gens. (The only reason Arcanine suffered in RBY and GSC was because of its typing and movepool. Lapras and Nidoking had similarly balanced stats, but better typings and movepools, and they did just fine. Nowadays, they're both considered to be "trash.")

Having no EV caps (but there technically was) would have only accelerated this. With EVs, Pokemon were able to specialize stats without Game Freak having to intervene with giving everyone and their mother base 120+ stats.
But, those boosted stats would always come at the expense of another stat, which hurt Pokémon who depended on having balanced stats to work. Mixed sweepers and bulky attackers started to become obsolete, and overall, things started to go into hyper-offensive mode. And, to help the older Pokémon catch up, GF had to start adding even new and more powerful moves, items, and abilities, which only exacerbated the problem.

The power creep was going to happen regardless--its happened everywhere else (just look at how bad the first Yugioh cards were compared to now). The only way the power creep couldn't happen is if new mechanics weren't introduced (notice how our items also received a "power creep" in terms of usefulness? And that didn't happen until Gen IV/V) and new Pokemon were introduced. Gen I Pokemon were optimized for Gen I mechanics, of course they'd look bad as the game progresses. However, if the game doesn't change, why should we keep buying them?
Nobody told GF that they HAD to hand out overinflated stats like candy or create new moves with astronomical base powers and just happen to hand them out to Pokémon with insane attacking stats. There are far other ways to market new Pokémon games, such as better graphics, better stories, and nice-looking new Pokémon. I know it may seem hard to believe, but the vast majority of players could care less about the competitive aspect.

And, there's nothing "fun" or "enticing" about a game where only a tiny fraction of fully-evolved Pokémon are even viable for battle, and said Pokémon have to have very specific characteristics, or they're 100% worthless. (Because, what use is an Adamant Alakazam?) All it does is make the barrier to entry in competitive battling unnecessarily high, only driving even more people away from it.

You know what else the lack of EV caps help? High base-stat Pokemon. If everyone could maximize their stats, the only difference would be the species' base stats. That means Pokemon like Garchomp no longer have to compromise* between being bulky or offensive--they could just fuck things up. Pokemon with lower base stats won't have a chance against them because their offensive stats will never reach a point to be able to go over another Pokemon's defensive stats.
Pokémon like Garchomp wouldn't even exist in a game without EV caps to begin with. And, besides, it's not like Pokémon with lower BSTs stand much a chance against Pokémon like Garchomp with the current system, anyways. Look at all of the masses and masses of fully-evolved Pokémon that are considered "unviable" in Smogon's current metagame (many of which were considered to be good in earlier Gens):

http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/tags/uu
http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/tags/ru
http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/tags/nu

Plus, movesets and typings have just as much to do with a Pokémon's power as stats have, something that was even true in RBY and GSC. For example, in Gen 1, Persian was widely considered to be a superior Physical sweeper to Dragonite. Why? The Classy Cat packed a STAB Slash that always Criticaled, thanks to how Critical Hits worked back then. (And, the ability to max out both Attack and Special allowed Persian to also run Bubblebeam/Thunderbolt for anything Slash couldn't deal with.) The fat dragon, on the other hand, lacked STAB and was 4x weak to the ever-popular Blizzard, despite having far better stats in everything but Speed.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2013
Messages
1,571
Reaction score
157
@The Outrage; You pretty much hit the nail on the head. To me personally, i much prefer the EV system of Gen 3, i can build the pokemon the way i want, either bulky, sweeper, annoyer, hazard setter, etc and leave my opponent guessing what it is. With the EV system prior to Gen 3, my choices are extremely limited because i could just maximize every stat and that makes every pokemon pretty much predictable (the only unpredictable thing would be the moveset and even then not so much).

And the EV system prior to Gen 3 is far worse than the current system, the gap between high BST mons and low BST mons would be even bigger than it is now and it would lead to even more unusable mons, since the only thing to compare would be the species base stats and not the individual stats. The power creep was also inevitable, it happens to every franchise that has some sort of competitive.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 1, 2014
Messages
1,664
Reaction score
1,226
I don't think the backlash would've been as large this time around. After what happened with RSE, veterans would now know what to expect from a hard compatibility kill, so it would be less of a shock, and brand new fans don't care either way. Plus, the Kalos Dex is way larger than the Hoenn one was, so fewer species would be left behind, and any others would return in ORAS.

(Besides, XY are already pretty much a compatibility kill for anyone who isn't paying for Pokémon Bank and owns a Gen 5 game.)

The power creep started becoming obvious Gen V, and it came from the realization that well-rounded stats, like Arcanine's were crap.
Not in the first two Gens. (The only reason Arcanine suffered in RBY and GSC was because of its typing and movepool. Lapras and Nidoking had similarly balanced stats, but better typings and movepools, and they did just fine. Nowadays, they're both considered to be "trash.")

Having no EV caps (but there technically was) would have only accelerated this. With EVs, Pokemon were able to specialize stats without Game Freak having to intervene with giving everyone and their mother base 120+ stats.
But, those boosted stats would always come at the expense of another stat, which hurt Pokémon who depended on having balanced stats to work. Mixed sweepers and bulky attackers started to become obsolete, and overall, things started to go into hyper-offensive mode. And, to help the older Pokémon catch up, GF had to start adding even new and more powerful moves, items, and abilities, which only exacerbated the problem.

The power creep was going to happen regardless--its happened everywhere else (just look at how bad the first Yugioh cards were compared to now). The only way the power creep couldn't happen is if new mechanics weren't introduced (notice how our items also received a "power creep" in terms of usefulness? And that didn't happen until Gen IV/V) and new Pokemon were introduced. Gen I Pokemon were optimized for Gen I mechanics, of course they'd look bad as the game progresses. However, if the game doesn't change, why should we keep buying them?
Nobody told GF that they HAD to hand out overinflated stats like candy or create new moves with astronomical base powers and just happen to hand them out to Pokémon with insane attacking stats. There are far other ways to market new Pokémon games, such as better graphics, better stories, and nice-looking new Pokémon. I know it may seem hard to believe, but the vast majority of players could care less about the competitive aspect.

And, there's nothing "fun" or "enticing" about a game where only a tiny fraction of fully-evolved Pokémon are even viable for battle, and said Pokémon have to have very specific characteristics, or they're 100% worthless. (Because, what use is an Adamant Alakazam?) All it does is make the barrier to entry in competitive battling unnecessarily high, only driving even more people away from it.

You know what else the lack of EV caps help? High base-stat Pokemon. If everyone could maximize their stats, the only difference would be the species' base stats. That means Pokemon like Garchomp no longer have to compromise* between being bulky or offensive--they could just fuck things up. Pokemon with lower base stats won't have a chance against them because their offensive stats will never reach a point to be able to go over another Pokemon's defensive stats.
Pokémon like Garchomp wouldn't even exist in a game without EV caps to begin with. And, besides, it's not like Pokémon with lower BSTs stand much a chance against Pokémon like Garchomp with the current system, anyways. Look at all of the masses and masses of fully-evolved Pokémon that are considered "unviable" in Smogon's current metagame (many of which were considered to be good in earlier Gens):

http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/tags/uu
http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/tags/ru
http://www.smogon.com/dex/xy/tags/nu

Plus, movesets and typings have just as much to do with a Pokémon's power as stats have, something that was even true in RBY and GSC. For example, in Gen 1, Persian was widely considered to be a superior Physical sweeper to Dragonite. Why? The Classy Cat packed a STAB Slash that always Criticaled, thanks to how Critical Hits worked back then. (And, the ability to max out both Attack and Special allowed Persian to also run Bubblebeam/Thunderbolt for anything Slash couldn't deal with.) The fat dragon, on the other hand, lacked STAB and was 4x weak to the ever-popular Blizzard, despite having far better stats in everything but Speed.
Ok let me try this one more time you must get my point at the very least

I have 17 shinys 3 of those are events from b2/w2(creation trio) one is an event from x/y (shiny gengar) A shiny slyveon i breed for, a gabite and haxorous from b2/w2 a shiny garchomp I randomly encountered in platnuim shiny gyrados from hg, a shiny mudkip I breed for ( and others I can't remeber), I have a mew from the emerald event (traded to me) I have jirachi deoxys diance from japan ( and others such as the pokebank celebi) If I was unable to transfer all of this I'd be pissed beyond repair its more then losing my lvl 100 charizard or that one shiny I found in gold, its a combination of pokemon from as far back as fr/lg, I have every legendary catachable since fr/lg and guess what they're people out there how have more then I do they're people with boxes of shinys (likely hacked but whos to say someone out there doesn't have that many shiny pokemon) have all event pokemon maybe even a living pokedex waiting to be transferred to gen 7.

Now tell all of us that all those pokemon can't be transferred to seventh gen because they want to make the games as simple as they were in red and blue, I garuntee 90% f of the older fanbase will be gone, and some kids who even have those pokemon (kids can get event pokemon too) will be just as angry if not more since they won't know how to cope with it and you just lost the audience you got in x/y leaving only the kids who have never played pokemon that's a major sales drop.

we're not talking g/s anymore where you miss out on mewtwo ho-oh lugia and some shiny pokemon we're talking years 12 years worth of pokemon collecting down the drain it's more then losing your first starter it's losing everything the games had it would be a regression, and by doing that they ostracize the older fanbase the one part of the game that isn't easy as heck is taken out because kids don't know how to breed (but probably have an older sibling who knows how) its not losing those 1000 hours you spent playing red/blue and gold/crystal its losing years of playing the game.

edit: better graphics become useless as soon as x/y came around yeah or/as is beautiful but not that far from x/y the grapic update ebcomes less impressive each generation.
 
Last edited:
Top