League/Elite 4 speculation, Ash saving his best Pokemon for later?

[Hellion]

I don't have bias towards unevolved Pokémon, I have bias towards unevolved Pokémon beating stronger evolved Pokémon, especially these of their own evolution chain.?

Contradicting yourself much ? The anime has proven time and time again that just because a pokemon isn't evolved, it doesn't mean it's weak... Anime logic isn't Game logic... accept this and your life will be easier.

And I never told Canalave Gym battle wasn't bad writing. It was.

Glad you agree

But somehow, for me, it was more acceptable than Pastoria Gym was. For you, it was opposite. But then again, you was affected by your bias and I was affected by my bias. So, let's just agree both battles were bad written, OK?

When I looked at the battle, if you read my above post, I make abstraction of my bias towards Gliscor and say that it deserved to be used in that battle, even that it was wise for Ash to use it... but when a pokemon has never won a single battle, you don't use it against the Gym leader's strongest pokemon... the writers should have made it battle bronzor... That's not bias... Losing your mind cause Ash's pikachu and buizel both defeat a Floatzel together after a long battle that could have gone either way, that's bias... That being said, I will admit that Pastoria is my third least favorite gym battle in Sinnoh after Snowpoint and the uber-awful Canalave gym battle.

Plus, my whole point was the plot line of those two episode

Buizel, traded to Ash, is a loner but in order to defeat its evolution has to team up with Pikachu, end their pseudo-rivalry and learn the value of team spirit = good plotline

Let's make Gliscor win against a pokemon that should demolish him otherwise just cause we think it needs to win at least one battle in its entire existence = bad plotline

Poor Gliscor was bad handled by writers and then released. It feels even worse than how Ash's Johto Pokémon were treat, doesn't it

You're right, the Johto starters actually won battles.

I get the fact that you hate the Johto Pokemon and you hate the fact that they're coming back for a bit (possibly longer) over Pokemon that you like. So take the piss on the Johto Pokemon for a few more months, continuing bitching about them, continue hating them. Because in a few months, you won't be able to do it anymore.

QFT

 

[Cybersai]

I don't know why you guys act like Gliscor's win wasn't great. When that Gym ep originally aired, everyone was singing their praises about Gliscor.


If Gliscor returns for the league, it will be memorable.

 

[Weedle Mchairybug]

Contradicting yourself much ? The anime has proven time and time again that just because a pokemon isn't evolved, it doesn't mean it's weak... Anime logic isn't Game logic... accept this and your life will be easier.

Actually, I wouldn't label it weak just because it was unevolved, I'd moreorless say it would be weak because it just flat out wasn't even close to experience as the gym leader's pokemon.

When I looked at the battle, if you read my above post, I make abstraction of my bias towards Gliscor and say that it deserved to be used in that battle, even that it was wise for Ash to use it... but when a pokemon has never won a single battle, you don't use it against the Gym leader's strongest pokemon... the writers should have made it battle bronzor... That's not bias... Losing your mind cause Ash's pikachu and buizel both defeat a Floatzel together after a long battle that could have gone either way, that's bias... That being said, I will admit that Pastoria is my third least favorite gym battle in Sinnoh after Snowpoint and the uber-awful Canalave gym battle.

Hey, I'd be fine with Buizel winning if Floatzel was one of the least experienced pokemon of Crasher Wake's roster. However, Floatzel was his strongest pokemon, and presumably his most experienced (its his star pokemon, after all.). I don't like it when Gym Leaders are portrayed as complete weaklings that lose to rookie pokemon. Granted, it was at least better than how Hoenn portrayed the Gym Leaders (where it almost felt like you were watching Ash cream Team Rocket with a Caterpie again. It may be good for battling JJM, but to do that to people who are considered experts in their field and treating them as being pathetic, even being on the level of JJM is quite insulting.)

Plus, my whole point was the plot line of those two episode

Buizel, traded to Ash, is a loner but in order to defeat its evolution has to team up with Pikachu, end their pseudo-rivalry and learn the value of team spirit = good plotline

Let's make Gliscor win against a pokemon that should demolish him otherwise just cause we think it needs to win at least one battle in its entire existence = bad plotline

That I can agree with, and it gives me bad reminders about Hoenn's Gym Leaders, anyways. I mean, at least with Johto, some of Ash's kanto Pokemon did help Ash win his matches.

 

[Hellion]

I don't know why you guys act like Gliscor's win wasn't great. When that Gym ep originally aired, Scott was singing his praises about Gliscor.


If Gliscor returns for the league, it will be memorable.

Fixed. I don't really get what's so great about Gliscor coming back for the league... If it's strong and defeats pokemon, than Ash had nothing to do with it and he steal precious time from Ash's sinnoh team and the Johto pokemon... And if he comes back and hasn't really improved, than what was the point of releasing it in the first place ? Gliscor coming back is a lose-lose situation if you ask me... except if it only comes back to join Dawn in cheerleading cause that might actually be funny (for once)...

Actually, I wouldn't label it weak just because it was unevolved, I'd moreorless say it would be weak because it just flat out wasn't even close to experience as the gym leader's pokemon. Hey, I'd be fine with Buizel winning if Floatzel was one of the least experienced pokemon of Crasher Wake's roster. However, Floatzel was his strongest pokemon, and presumably his most experienced (its his star pokemon, after all.). I don't like it when Gym Leaders are portrayed as complete weaklings that lose to rookie pokemon.

Experience = game mechanics and Game is different than the anime... Plus, buizel had fought in many battles, tied against lucario in a closely fought battle, lost to an Elite 4 member's bronzong while still being able to land a few hits... It had plenty of experience plus it was helped by pikachu... I agree that on paper, buizel defeating floatzel sounds like a dem win, but if you actually watch the episode, it definitely wasn't... (unlike an other gym battle... I'll give you a hint, it rhymes with fanalave)

Don't get me wrong, even in the anime world, evolved pokemon are generally stronger than their pre-evolved form, but those pre-evolved pokemon can defeat their evolved forms through tactics instead of relying on pure power (which is what happened in Pastoria...)

 

[Cybersai]

And if he comes back and hasn't really improved, than what was the point of releasing it in the first place ? Gliscor coming back is a lose-lose situation if you ask me... except if it only comes back to join Dawn in cheerleading cause that might actually be funny (for once)...

Gliscor is an established member of Ash's Sinnoh team. It has more of a reason to be in the Paul battle at the league than Gible does. And knowing the writers, they WILL have Gliscor in the Paul match instead of Gible.

Personally I cannot wait to see Gliscor return, just to prove the naysayers wrong. Gliscor was an absolutely loved Pokemon when it was around, and given the amount of people upset at its release, you can tell people are clamoring for its return. Here's hoping the writers do not forget this.

 

[hhhhdmt]

In fairness to Gliscor, while it didnt win alot of battles, it did seem to try hard. And it put up a pretty good fight against Paul's Torterr, even it it didnt win. I can't wait for it to return either, if it returns at all.

 

[Hellion]

Gliscor was an established member of Ash's Sinnoh team. It had more of a reason to be in the Paul battle at the league than Gible does before it left for training. And knowing the writers but I don't, they WILL have Gliscor in the Paul match instead of Gible.

Personally I cannot wait to see Gliscor return, just to prove the naysayers wrong. Gliscor was an absolutely loved Pokemon when it was around, and given the amount of people upset at its release, you can tell people are upset by his release. Here's hoping the writers do not forget this.cause you know, they really really care about the people on this fandom

fixed. Gliscor's "training" to me negates any claim he has on Paul's battle... plus he doesn't have any rivalry with any of Paul's pokemon except Paul's Gliscor who has been lost in the ages, not anymore than Gible...

 

[Cybersai]

fixed. Gliscor's "training" to me negates any claim he has on Paul's battle... plus he doesn't have any rivalry with any of Paul's pokemon except Paul's Gliscor who has been lost in the ages, not anymore than Gible...

Maybe so, but it should still be there as it was a part of the rivalry for quite some time. Can you honestly say, without bias, that you think Gible will be part of the Paul match instead of Gliscor?

I find it hard to believe.

 

[Hellion]

Maybe so, but it should still be there as it was a part of the rivalry for quite some time. Can you honestly say, without bias, that you think Gible will be part of the Paul match instead of Gliscor?

I find it hard to believe.

Without bias, I don't think either of the two de facto deserves a place in that match... Pikachu, Buizel, Staraptor, Infernape and Torterra all have heavy rivalries with Paul and his pokemon. Neither Gliscor or Gible can match that... Gliscor had a rivalry with Paul's Gliscor and not Paul and that's it... and since Paul isn't using it... To me, Gliscor or Gible, it's 50/50.

Plus, you using without bias is extremely ironic... Would you say the same thing is Staraptor would have gone to the air master instead of Gliscor... I don't think so...

 

[Cybersai]

Any Pokemon release would bother me greatly, so maybe. Its also because I want confirmation that Gliscor is coming back and won't be permanently released.

It amazes me that people still cry over Pidgeot who has been gone for like 11 years, yet current modern-day releases like Gliscor are overlooked.

 

[Hellion]

Any Pokemon release would bother me greatly, so maybe. Its also because I want confirmation that Gliscor is coming back and won't be permanently released.

It amazes me that some people still cry over Pidgeot who has been gone for like 11 years, yet current modern-day releases like Gliscor are overlooked.

Yeah, but you wouldn't be grasping at straws, singing Staraptor's praises and clamoring for its return against Paul and making the case about how it's the only pokemon that deserves to be in Paul's match if Staraptor had been released instead of Gliscor... Wanting something and saying it will happen is two different things...

I don't really think a whole lot of people are still hung up about Pidgeot or Butterfree... I think some people just dislike the idea of releases altogether... But the love that Ash's released pokemon get is greater that the ones is Oaked pokemon get because people know there's less of a chance they'll see it agains. In Gliscor's case, the hype about how great Gliscor was is really more a post-release phenomenon.

 

[Cybersai]

In Gliscor's case, the hype about how great Gliscor was is really more a post-release phenomenon.

I dunno about anyone else, but I plan on whipping up a shitstorm on the forums if Gliscor doesn't return for the league.

 

[Hellion]

I dunno about anyone else, but I plan on whipping up a shitstorm on the forums if Gliscor doesn't return for the league.

...and that's gonna be different from the shi*storms you throw every other day how ?

 

[peno]

To tell you truth, as much as I want Gliscor to return, I don't have that much hope for writers who ruined Sinnoh Contest Arc, nonsensically stretchening the end of Sinnoh saga with stupid fillers, released two Pokémon without any reason etc. They already ruined Sinnoh, why should we believe them they will do at least one right thing the return of Gliscor for league is? I simply don't have that much trust for this set of writers.

 

[empoleon dynamite]

It amazes me that people still cry over Pidgeot who has been gone for like 11 years, yet current modern-day releases like Gliscor are overlooked.

That's because the writters have improved to a point they can handle releases. Whilst we'll probably never see Pigeot again, we're bound to see Gliscor return. That much has held true for Charizard and Squirtle anyway.

 

[Falconwing]

That's because the writters have improved to a point they can handle releases. Whilst we'll probably never see Pigeot again, we're bound to see Gliscor return. That much has held true for Charizard and Squirtle anyway.

Who were caught alongside Pidgeot. So that logic doesn't hold true very well.

 

[Leonardo10]

That's because the writters have improved to a point they can handle releases. Whilst we'll probably never see Pigeot again, we're bound to see Gliscor return. That much has held true for Charizard and Squirtle anyway.

Very true my friend

 

[empoleon dynamite]

Who were caught alongside Pidgeot. So that logic doesn't hold true very well.

Where they released alongside Pidgeot? no

 

[Falconwing]

Where they released alongside Pidgeot? no

But they were released. Both in Johto.

 

[Cybersai]

But they were released. Both in Johto.

They were released? Never once when watching those eps did I think they were released.