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Real, Fake, Or Unsure

  • Real

    Votes: 3 5.7%
  • Fake

    Votes: 38 71.7%
  • Unsure

    Votes: 12 22.6%

  • Total voters
    53
The argument was never that these Pokemon are this species, just that they take inspiration from it. (Just like Lapras isn't a complete representation of the Loch Ness monster, or how the Pikachu line aren't exactly like mice) My apologies for misinterpreting you with time.

Was Dratini revealed before Lapras? If that's the case, I can see the reasoning behind this, but it seems like it'd be quite a stretch if it wasn't. And while Dratini does have a connection to water, it's not quite as shown off as Lapras's-its dex entries talk about it moving people across water, and that's shown quite often in the anime. (It gets quite the treatment with Surf, too-it was the Gen 2 sprite for surf, got a custom sprite for Surf in Gen 6, and the Poke Ride function for it in Gen 7-but, of course, that information wasn't there for Gen 1.)

I had removed the ending part of the sentence about time because it sounded snarky on re-reading. Hoofenmouth Syndrome is definitely acting up >.<

Well, my issue is that Lapras was clearly intended to be heavily based on Nessie, while Bulbasaur and Chikorita you really can't put a solid singular inspiration on. So it's a lot easier to judge typing for one, but with the other two we can barely narrow down even the plant basis, let alone if there's any animal basis. It doesn't help that plant types tend to not have an animal basis, leaving it further questionable whether Bulbasaur was inspired by a modern animal, an extinct animal, or even how the dirt might have clung to the roots of a plant after it was yanked from a pot (its skin hints toward the potting soil possibility in how it's patterned, while early sprites favored the toad interpretation in how it stood and leapt). Chikorita could be a basis of both animal and plant, or could be entirely based on the real-world plant made into an animal. Then again, it doesn't help that reading a lot of the dex entries makes it clear that Lapras is actually closer to a real-world dolphin than to its mythological basis, which makes me wonder if the Nessie base wasn't a later idea (they might have had trouble making a good dolphin sprite at the time).

Lapras and Dratini were both revealed at about the same time, and both under different names than they have now. Lapras was originally called Ness, while Dratini was originally called Dragoon. Typing wasn't revealed, IIRC, and Lapras had more teeth than it does now.
 
I had removed the ending part of the sentence about time because it sounded snarky on re-reading. Hoofenmouth Syndrome is definitely acting up >.<

Well, my issue is that Lapras was clearly intended to be heavily based on Nessie, while Bulbasaur and Chikorita you really can't put a solid singular inspiration on. So it's a lot easier to judge typing for one, but with the other two we can barely narrow down even the plant basis, let alone if there's any animal basis. It doesn't help that plant types tend to not have an animal basis, leaving it further questionable whether Bulbasaur was inspired by a modern animal, an extinct animal, or even how the dirt might have clung to the roots of a plant after it was yanked from a pot (its skin hints toward the potting soil possibility in how it's patterned, while early sprites favored the toad interpretation in how it stood and leapt). Chikorita could be a basis of both animal and plant, or could be entirely based on the real-world plant made into an animal. Then again, it doesn't help that reading a lot of the dex entries makes it clear that Lapras is actually closer to a real-world dolphin than to its mythological basis, which makes me wonder if the Nessie base wasn't a later idea (they might have had trouble making a good dolphin sprite at the time).

Lapras and Dratini were both revealed at about the same time, and both under different names than they have now. Lapras was originally called Ness, while Dratini was originally called Dragoon. Typing wasn't revealed, IIRC, and Lapras had more teeth than it does now.
Haha, don't worry about it, tone can get muddled pretty easily online!

That's a neat look through Bulbasaur's design, I never would have considered dirt clinging to roots! (Looking back through the dex, Bulbasaur and Chikorita really stand out-the only other Grass type that even resembled an animal at the time was Paras) I think the Loch Ness monster probably account for most of Lapras's origin, since you said it was originally released as Ness, but dolphins probably influenced a lot of it. (It probably has something else mixed in there, too, since the shell doesn't seem to come from either)

Huh, that's really interesting! That definitely makes sense that people would have thought that, then, especially if they were close in time of being revealed.
 
Haha, don't worry about it, tone can get muddled pretty easily online!

That's a neat look through Bulbasaur's design, I never would have considered dirt clinging to roots! (Looking back through the dex, Bulbasaur and Chikorita really stand out-the only other Grass type that even resembled an animal at the time was Paras) I think the Loch Ness monster probably account for most of Lapras's origin, since you said it was originally released as Ness, but dolphins probably influenced a lot of it. (It probably has something else mixed in there, too, since the shell doesn't seem to come from either)

Huh, that's really interesting! That definitely makes sense that people would have thought that, then, especially if they were close in time of being revealed.

Plus, I tend to taste my feet a lot when I speak anyway, which doesn't help.

Only reason I first considered it is Venusaur looks the closest to that. Early art really highlighted it. Paras and Parasect both helped me consider the fact that, early on, Grass type didn't refer to animals; Paras and Parasect both reflect a real-world fungal infection that, in insects, creates real-world zombies. Pokedex entries hint towards this being true of the Pokemon world as well, making me wonder if the Pokemon classification isn't for the mushroom instead of the insect. It's certainly not the only time we see paired Pokemon that are treated as a singular entity. I really kinda wish that they would explain the basis of some of these grass types.

The shell on Lapras I think is based on a saddle. It fits with the idea it's a pokemon you ride around and is, effectively, a water-based horse. Naturally, humans need a place to sit and spots to hold onto and attach bags.

It was fun early on! Gen 1 was interesting in how they advertised it and how much beta info we got. Nintendo really did a lot of marketing of the game along the lines of, "See this cool thing we're doing?" and later on figured out how to capitalize on it. It was also interesting the mistakes they made, like how easily Psychic types could trash the only Gen 1 Ghost types (the Ghastly family).
 
4chan is so far from a credible source, it's not even funny.

As for my other thoughts, Envoy practically took the words out of my mouth. It sounds far more like an amateur fangame than any sort of official project.
 
The UK is in Europe.
It's part of Europe politically. It is not actually connected to the continent. (Please look at a world map)
New generation= new features
A copy of an old feature isn't really new.
Most people would have thought Ho-Oh and Lugia for Sun/Moon since the sun is gold and the moon is silver, etc, etc
Nobody thought that. Sun and Moon are a new generation-nobody would have expected mascots from a previous game.
 
The UK is in Europe. And so is France (Kalos). And yes Regina does mean Queen but that still falls under the category of Royal. About the other points it could have been a mistranslation and may have been reversed

It would make more sense if they were talking about the Roman Empire instead of Britain for that part.

But, then, there's a lot about it that doesn't make sense. Like why they think X/Y was heavily based on Norse myths when the region was part of the Celtic lands and Britain actually has more Norse influence.

But, eh.
 
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It's part of Europe politically.

Not that this makes this "leak" any more authentic, but the UK is in Europe geographically, in the same way that Malta, Cyprus and Sicily are. It's still complete nonsense to say that the UK is in South Europe (Whatever way you choose to define it), or to say that it somehow makes a logical connection to Yungoos.

On the subject of myth, it's a bit of a tricky one. Not much of the "Celtic" myths survive (As far as I know), and those that do you tend to find more specifically in Welsh and Irish mythology. A lot of the Arthurian myth you could argue is as much French as it is "English", so by the same token the Saxon and Norse myths could be argued to be as much English. I'm not sure how much this would matter to a hypothetical Japanese game designer - given how good Game Freak usually are at doing their research, I suppose they might make the effort to separate them out ... but then the regions have always been inspired by real places so for the sake of fantasy, does that nitpicking really matter?

Well, in this case, no, because an unsourced post from 4chan isn't even half a hoax
 
About the only basis I see for the argument X/Y had any Norse or Celtic basis is the two mascots and the Fairy type. The rest of the game reminded me a lot of modern fantasy Arthurian myth. Given how many French novelists helped shape Arthurian myth, that makes sense.

But, that's still debating another issue of a "leak" that is probably just some guy posting fanfiction for the lulz.
 
New generation= new features and I just had a thought regarding this whole thing... notice have Ho-Oh was included. Most people would have thought Ho-Oh and Lugia for Sun/Moon since the sun is gold and the moon is silver, etc, etc yet they include Ho-Oh in this leak which appeared before the poster of the next movie which is about... Ho-Oh. Probably nothing but you never know
Oh honey...
 
I have not received any further Chinese leaks apart from Sun and Moon Chinese leaks.
The lack of original Chinese version of this leak also adds to its fishy-ness.
 
I'm calling bullshit. Though some sounds pretty neat. I would totally be up for a UK-based region.

While I do like the idea of a region with 4 legendary Pokémon that represents the elements (reminds me of Avatar), there is no reason to take this seriously yet. No current credible sources or anything.

Saaame. Sounds cool as hell.

Actually, however crazy it is, I would far prefer the radical change (like, for one game) of having 4 starter options which represent the 4 elements.
 
Actually, however crazy it is, I would far prefer the radical change (like, for one game) of having 4 starter options which represent the 4 elements.

We kiiinda already had one. Sort of? If you squint? Like, if you squint real hard.

In classical mythology, the element of "Earth" encompasses several of what Pokemon has dubbed 'types.' The Pokemon types that would fall under the umbrella of the classical earth element are: ground, rock, steel (in the Greek classification, not in the Chinese one,) and Grass.

Meanwhile, the air element would encompass the following two types: Flying (by default,) and Electric.

Of course arguments could be made against this classification. A:TLA itself would classify 'Grass' under the Water element and 'Electric' under Fire, but in most media, popular culture, and the public consciousness, Grass is a subcategory of earth and electric is a subcategory of Wind (when they're not their own classical elements themselves. Again, see the Chinese classical elements for an example of this.)

So, if we take the four classical elements to be Water, Fire, Grass (Earth,) and Electric (Air,) then Gen I already offered us a game in which we could get all four elemental Starters that represent all four elements: Pokemon Yellow. With Pikachu subbing in for the Air/Electric element, of course.

Obviously there are holes in this logic (hence why I said 'if you squint') such as why would Grass/Electric need to represent Earth/Air when Ground/Flying do that more directly, and are Grass/Electric even derivative of Earth/Air in the first place, but there is a logic to be seen here, if a flawed one.
 
I think it's fake. We've had this sort of thing always for a long time when there is speculation.
 
We kiiinda already had one. Sort of? If you squint? Like, if you squint real hard.

In classical mythology, the element of "Earth" encompasses several of what Pokemon has dubbed 'types.' The Pokemon types that would fall under the umbrella of the classical earth element are: ground, rock, steel (in the Greek classification, not in the Chinese one,) and Grass.

Meanwhile, the air element would encompass the following two types: Flying (by default,) and Electric.

Of course arguments could be made against this classification. A:TLA itself would classify 'Grass' under the Water element and 'Electric' under Fire, but in most media, popular culture, and the public consciousness, Grass is a subcategory of earth and electric is a subcategory of Wind (when they're not their own classical elements themselves. Again, see the Chinese classical elements for an example of this.)

So, if we take the four classical elements to be Water, Fire, Grass (Earth,) and Electric (Air,) then Gen I already offered us a game in which we could get all four elemental Starters that represent all four elements: Pokemon Yellow. With Pikachu subbing in for the Air/Electric element, of course.

Obviously there are holes in this logic (hence why I said 'if you squint') such as why would Grass/Electric need to represent Earth/Air when Ground/Flying do that more directly, and are Grass/Electric even derivative of Earth/Air in the first place, but there is a logic to be seen here, if a flawed one.

Bit of a stretch, but I really appreciate the effort XD I see what you mean.

I guess what I mean to say is I would really love to see a Water, Flying, Fire, Ground selection (even better if the Flying one had an Electric second type, and the Ground one had a Grass second type).

Elemental Avatar-style starters would be cool. Especially if they changed up the story and design of the game and strengthened the bond between Starter and Trainer, like it giving you different appearance options and alternations in the story or something. Idk I'm a nerd lol
 
As cool as some of the region design/classic element legendaries sound, the rest sounds like fanboy fantasy, honestly.
 
Bit of a stretch, but I really appreciate the effort XD I see what you mean.

I guess what I mean to say is I would really love to see a Water, Flying, Fire, Ground selection (even better if the Flying one had an Electric second type, and the Ground one had a Grass second type).

Elemental Avatar-style starters would be cool. Especially if they changed up the story and design of the game and strengthened the bond between Starter and Trainer, like it giving you different appearance options and alternations in the story or something. Idk I'm a nerd lol

To add to this it would be great if they based the starter Pokémon on the original benders in Avatar. That is to say, the Fire starter would be based on a Dragon, Air, a bison, Earth, a badger mole, and Water..... Lunatone?
 
To add to this it would be great if they based the starter Pokémon on the original benders in Avatar. That is to say, the Fire starter would be based on a Dragon, Air, a bison, Earth, a badger mole, and Water..... Lunatone?
The words you're looking for are koi and fish.
 
The words you're looking for are koi and fish.

Actually, I wasn't. The original Waterbender is the moon. The Koifish are spirits, specifically, Tui is the spirit of the moon while La is the spirit of the Ocean.
 
I have an idea for Pokemon based on the classical element theme. You see an alchemist named Paracelsus created a set of creatures to symbolaize these elements and I have an idea on how these might be translated into pokemon (though based on the traditional depictions, with that said, deviations are possible)

  • The Sylph:
    • Typing: Flying/Fairy
    • Design: Likely to have a feminine or androgynous humanoid design. And would have a body part that is made of winds. Likely the wings.
    • Ability: Aerilate. The HA would be Pixilate.
    • Alternatively the typing would be Flying/Electric with the HA being Galvanize to match, but it would still use some fairy-type moves.
  • The Salamander (or Ifrit):
    • Typing: Fire/Dragon
    • Design: A reptilian creature made of flames. And may also resemble Ifrit from the Final Fantasy series.
    • Ability: a new ability that I call Burninate, a Fire-type version of the likes of Pixilate. In case you haven't noticed by now, this will be the common them of the abilities. Likewise the HA will be a Dragon-type version, which I would call Wyvernize.
  • The Undine:
    • Typing: Water/Ice
    • Design: Like the Sylph it would be humanoid (and possibly feminine) but like the Salamander, it would be composed of the element it presents, in this case, water. With a few parts made of ice to stabilize the form. Would resemble a Mermaid (or a certain Undertale character).
    • Ability: Keeping strictly to the theme, a new ability will be used, Hydrate (not Hydration), which would be a water-type clone of its HA, Refrigerate.
  • The Gnome (or Golem, but I think we already have that covered with...Golem)
    • Typing: Rock/Ground
    • Design: A rock monster with a Hammer. Humanoid and slightly masculine. It would resemble a statue
    • Ability: Ground and Grass versions called Pressurize and Gravitate, respectably. and yes Gravitate is the HA.
    • Typing changes to Steel, and Grass are also possible. With abilities to match (Steel would get Ironize and grass would get Fertilize)
  • A Fifth Pokemon can also be implemented as the leader of this group. Being based on Aether, or Quintessence.
    • Typing: Electric/Nomral
    • Design: this one if a bit tricky because Paracelsus did not make a corresponding element for this and because the element itself could be seen as Life and maybe Metaphysics. But I think a Philosopher('s Stone) motif might work. Alternative we could have a Unicorn pokemon or borrow from Asian mythologies and go for a Kirin design.
    • Ability: I can see a few options. It would have a reversed version of Normalize (where the opponent's moves become Normal type instead), it could have Galvanize and another ability for its Subtype (see below). and or it could have Power of Alchemy.
    • Alternatively the types (and thus the abilities) would be any of the elemental types not strictly associated with the elementals and not already used by the above 4 (Electric and Grass for example) or it could have a Psychic type or a Ghost type.
 
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Actually, I wasn't. The original Waterbender is the moon. The Koifish are spirits, specifically, Tui is the spirit of the moon while La is the spirit of the Ocean.
Yes. They are the physical manifestations of the moon and ocean. Hence why when Tui was killed, the moon disappeared. But their physical forms are that of koi fish. Hence, the 'animal' that represents waterbending is the koi fish.

Although if we really want to get technical, it was the lion turtles who gave humans the power to bend in the first place. But four lion turtle based Starters would get boring.
 
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