BDSP Leaks/Rumors Thread

[Oriden]

I mean everyone is discussing the music and all the other aspects, but if you can’t even put a polished introduction to your game, I think that crosses the boundary to "unfinished". Even indie games somehow manage that and this is the highest grossing franchise on the entire planet.

I kinda wonder if ILCA didn't actually have that much oversight while making these. There's a lot that feels subpar, like their real passion was just in re-orchestrating the battles.

 

[Alola]

Hear me out. I think overall BDSP is on par with platinum as the definitive Sinnoh experience.

With everything now known I think overall BDSP are very solid and on par with Platinum overall.

What they lose in the BF, story changes, platinum gym teams, non forced Exp share? and distortion world (made up partially by the revealed Giratina shadow boss) they make up for in the Ramados Park, Super gym/E4 rematches, QOL improvements, better AI and gyms having held items, following Pokémon, grand hideaways, superior poke radar, customisation and polished graphics.

Overall both have their benefits and negatives but in general are solid definitive Sinnoh experiences.

Also Queen Cynthia retains her title as number 1! Red goes to cry in a corner lol.

What are your thoughts? Agree or disagree?

To piggyback off of PkmnTrainerV, I agree - BDSP has its good points (being able to properly dress for the snow, much better Gym/Elite/Champion battles, actualized in-game Shaymin/Darkrai events, etc.), but it's not the definitive Sinnoh experience in my opinion. Remember, Platinum was deliberately made to be the ultimate Sinnoh experience and BDSP lacks several Platinum features; as a result, BDSP isn't something I could call definitive.

• Platinum has the better story. It takes Team Galactic's world recreation plans and expands on them, from giving their actions (such as their Valley Windworks operation and Great Marsh bombing) more rationalization to including all three of Sinnoh's Box Legendaries in the finale rather than focusing on one. Players even get to visit the world Giratina was allegedly banished to, marking the first depiction of interworld travel that wasn't revisited until Generation VII. Cynthia is more involved, scenes play out differently with new bits added, new characters in Looker (introduced to reinforce how far reaching Team Galactic is as an entity) and Charon (one of the organization's top scientists and who made the infamous Red Chain) are introduced, and there's even a continuation of said Team Galactic plot in the post game.
• Speaking of post game, Platinum has more for a player to do. Just like in BDSP, one can spend time catching several Legendary Pokémon (though not as many) and rematching the Gym Leaders (as well as battle the Stat Trainers) or Elite Four. Pokémon Contests are whole (rather than relegated to only one enhanced round akin to Pokémon Musicals) events to master and personalized Villas along with designable Underground Secret Bases exist unlike in BDSP. Then, there's the Battle Frontier, single-player content for a higher degree of varied battles, with which had notable music and characters that now no longer exist barring Palmer; the Battle Hall, Arcade, and Castle are all Sinnoh original facilities that newer players won't get to experience.
• The Platinum regional Pokedex and distribution is one of the better depictions within the series (outside unnecessary issues like Munchlax and Feebas). Every type has at least three evolutionary families to choose from which promotes a high degree of diversity and there is an assortment of potentially strong gift Pokémon (Porygon, Eevee, Togepi, etc.). Although this can kind of be moot since most of those Platinum additions are found in the Grand Underground (I say kind of as apparently Eevee hasn't been publicly documented yet aside from as a gift post game, which is alarming given its evolution potential in the region; Rotom too is apparently post-game unlike in Platinum).
• There's no forced EXP All & game-breaking Affection mechanics. The Gym Leader lineup is more balanced too as having two Gym Leaders with a max level of 30 inbetween several areas doesn't work like it did in Kanto's FRLG with Koga/Sabrina as either way you slice it, you're going to be overleveled for one or will have to skip Trainers (versus Platinum's natural progression); we also lose out in Fantina's infamous difficulty as the third Gym Leader with her hard to take down Mismagius.
• While we praise the QoL features BDSP has introduced, Platinum did so as well when we consider its own time relatively. Move Tutors (which BDSP lacks) were introduced allowing for many notable moves and coverage to be acquired (before the post game as well), Poffins could be purchased as well as made with friends, the Poketch received a more intuitive design (which BDSP lacks), etc.
• The game is complete. There aren't any patches, updates, or any possibility of having to pay more in DLC to enjoy the Sinnoh experience.

Granted...most of these points can be subjected to change/made moot should they release Platinum elements in patches or as DLC, but given how they treated ORAS, I'm highly highly skeptical. I just feel third versions are definitive visions of a region (outside of Pokémon encounters, to keep some merit for original releases; here's looking at no Mareep in Crystal).

hey make up for in the Ramados Park, Super gym/E4 rematches, QOL improvements, better AI and gyms having held items, following Pokémon, grand hideaways, superior poke radar, customisation and polished graphics.

Aside from clothing options and following Pokémon (features present in past Pokémon games), this seems to largely chalk up to "we forwent most of Platinum's notable features to: a) make the game prettier (which should be a given due to this being released on a home console) b) give players more Pokémon to catch and c) make a number of non-battle facility battles more challenging."

 

[Fairy Type Arceus]

Your post answered your own question in my opinion. I disagree because so many elements vital to Sinnoh like the distortion world are missing. It cannot be "definitive" if it’s missing half the things from the actual definitive edition from 13 years back.

Thing is remakes were never stated to be definitive versions of a region or game. They were remakes first and foremost of the game they were remaking not a sinnoh DX edition. And in this case it was to remake dp.

Lets go didn't include the sevi islands because it wasn't a frlg remake but watch the next time we go to Kanto (and trust me give it like 10 years they can't leave that place alone) it'll be a remake of the remakes and the sevi islands will be in. We might see this trend as they remake 3rd versions and eventually remakes if they keep up this pace. (Whos ready for bdsp remakes in 2070?) Platinum and emerald might get their day in the remake sun in like 2040 xD

 

[Mistresspaie]

Your post answered your own question in my opinion. I disagree because so many elements vital to Sinnoh like the distortion world are missing. It cannot be "definitive" if it’s missing half the things from the actual definitive edition from 13 years back.

You literally spend 5 minutes in the distortion world and only return once for the orb. It’s nice but ultimately inconsequential. The distortion room (where your upside btw) where you fight shadow Giratina to get the orb is a good nod towards it imo.

 

[Nagisa]

I mean everyone is discussing the music and all the other aspects, but if you can’t even put a polished introduction to your game, I think that crosses the boundary to "unfinished". Even indie games somehow manage that and this is the highest grossing franchise on the entire planet.

It really gives it a bad look. But do we know if the patch at least adds a proper introduction, like the previous games had? Swsh's half-assed one was so disappointing (three shots of an empty stadium? that's what you want to hype me for? no opening showing the starters, the region, the rivals, the legendaries?), it made me doubt whether they even cared about the region, and Sinnoh doesn't deserve that.

Thing is remakes were never stated to be definitive versions of a region or game. They were remakes first and foremost of the game they were remaking not a sinnoh DX edition. And in this case it was to remake dp.

That's exactly the problem. From the start, the concept of these remakes was subpar. These games should have been Platinum remakes, just split in two for whatever reason since they clearly love that business model too much to stop it.

 

[Fairy Type Arceus]

It really gives it a bad look. But do we know if the patch at least adds a proper introduction, like the previous games had? Swsh's half-assed one was so disappointing (three shots of an empty stadium? that's what you want to hype me for? no opening showing the starters, the region, the rivals, the legendaries?), it made me doubt whether they even cared about the region, and Sinnoh doesn't deserve that.


That's exactly the problem. From the start, the concept of these remakes was subpar. These games should have been Platinum remakes, just split in two for whatever reason since they clearly love that business model too much to stop it.

But are remakes supposed to be definitive versions? Thats what 3rd versions and DX versions are for. Should this have been platinum remakes since that was the "dx" sinnoh version? Maybe, its hard to argue against that but to say that remakes should be definitive versions with all content from all versions of any game set in that region isn't what they're being made for, its to remake the expirence of sinnoh as it was in dp.

Lets go was similar because it was remaking yellow and it kept the feel of bonding with pikachu (and eevee), expanded on following Pokemon and expanded on Jessie and James as in game characters, none of this was in rb or frlg. If remakes were meant to be DX versions of the region they would have included the sevi islands. Or if frlg was meant to be DX Kanto following pikachu and catchable starters would have been in the game with surfing pikachi mini games.

 

[Oriden]

But are remakes supposed to be definitive versions? Thats what 3rd versions and DX versions are for. Should this have been platinum remakes since that was the "dx" sinnoh version? Maybe, its hard to argue against that but to say that remakes should be definitive versions with all content from all versions of any game set in that region isn't what they're being made for, its to remake the expirence of sinnoh as it was in dp.

Lets go was similar because it was remaking yellow and it kept the feel of bonding with pikachu (and eevee), expanded on following Pokemon and expanded on Jessie and James as in game characters, none of this was in rb or frlg. If remakes were meant to be DX versions of the region they would have included the sevi islands. Or if frlg was meant to be DX Kanto following pikachu and catchable starters would have been in the game with surfing pikachi mini games.

I get what you're trying to say but at the same time, third versions are just enhanced versions, and if you're going to remake games, why not remake them to be more like the better version? Especially when remakes are generally improved versions anyway, why start with the lesser version of the game instead of taking the improved one and improving it more?

 

[Fairy Type Arceus]

I get what you're trying to say but at the same time, third versions are just enhanced versions, and if you're going to remake games, why not remake them to be more like the better version? Especially when remakes are generally improved versions anyway, why start with the lesser version of the game instead of taking the improved one and improving it more?

So they can sell you the Crystal, Emerald and Platinum remakes in 10 years is my best guess. I think its stupid too but its my beat way of trying to get behind gamefreaks mindset on why they'd be so faithful to RS and DP over their 3rd versions.

Altough I wonder how they'll handle BW 2 and USUM...and at least when X and Y gets remade we xan avoid this conversation Completly lol.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

You literally spend 5 minutes in the distortion world and only return once for the orb. It’s nice but ultimately inconsequential. The distortion room (where your upside btw) where you fight shadow Giratina to get the orb is a good nod towards it imo.

That doesn’t really invalidate anything I said? An entire legendary’s lair world isn’t nconsequential, not to mention all the other aspects @Alola talked about. There’s no way BDSP comes close to Platinum when “definitive" is concerned. It is missing story elements so it isn’t definitive in that aspect, it is missing featured that stop it from making it definitive. Whereas the only constraint platinum deals with is time and a lack of QoL, which is something out of the franchise's control.

Ideally, I think the remakes should be the definitive editions (@Oriden phrases it much more clearly so I won’t repeat) but BDSP are not even close.

 

[Mistresspaie]

That doesn’t really invalidate anything I said? An entire legendary’s lair world isn’t nconsequential, not to mention all the other aspects @Alola talked about. There’s no way BDSP comes close to Platinum when “definitive" is concerned. It is missing story elements so it isn’t definitive in that aspect, it is missing featured that stop it from making it definitive. Whereas the only constraint platinum deals with is time and a lack of QoL, which is something out of the franchise's control.

Ideally, I think the remakes should be the definitive editions (@Oriden phrases it much more clearly so I won’t repeat) but BDSP are not even close.

I agree on the story basis. Platinum will always be superior there but unless they decide to remake the 3rd versions we’re not getting the definitive story anytime soon on remakes.

Everything else though Bdsp surpasses platinum except for four areas. The BF, contests, the Villa and secret bases. The rematches are vastly superior, the legendary catching on par with if not better, poke radar is improved making chaining far better, legendary events are in for Shaymin and Darkrai which at the time was very hard to do with platinum due to technical limitations, following Pokémon in general makes it better, customisation is a plus, the Pokémon hideaways are great too. You even get to fight Dawn/Lucas.

Even discounting this the QOL improvements are too good not to point out. Especially when one goes back to Platinum after becoming so used to modern QOL features. Platinums speed hurts a lot, the HM problem makes exploring a pain, Shiny hunting is much harder due to the old odds, competitive training is far harder to do if not impossible, saving takes ages, having to travel to the pc to check your box, memorising type effectiveness in battle, single use tms (yes they are back here but it’s mitigated by how easy it is to get copies unlike Platinum) etc.

In the end both have their positives and negatives but each are very solid games in the franchise. Platinum is the definitive in story. BDSP is the definitive in gameplay imo.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Platinum is the definitive in story. BDSP is the definitive in gameplay imo.

I really can’t class it as definitive with an entire battle facility missing.

 

[NinjutsuSen]

Don't care for the Sinnoh battle frontier so I am not mad about the games missing them. The facilities where just basic party modes, each of them in a specific building and that's it. No pyramid esque exploration parts, no luck based paths and more or less lame gimmicks and the park also was non-existent. The missing Hoenn BF in ORAS was way worse.

Other than that and maybe the villa, I admit that I am more eager in the BDSP rematches and the Ramanas Park park and the more easy to obtain Darkrai/Shaymin events in the post-game. So when it comes to post-game I think I'll prefer BDSP over Platinum.

 

[Puddle]

I'm still salty about the finished soundtrack not being on the physical cartridges, but from what I'm heard of the music from the patch, I'm really impressed. It was well worth them taking the extra time to get it right. The Gym Leader and Elite Four themes are outstanding.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

So they can sell you the Crystal, Emerald and Platinum remakes in 10 years is my best guess.

We don't really have anything pointing to them making third version remakes, though, especially when HGSS and ORAS both included new plotlines for their third legendary.

 

[Daren]

Even discounting this the QOL improvements are too good not to point out. Especially when one goes back to Platinum after becoming so used to modern QOL features.

Honestly I replayed Platinum right after I finished Sword and the only things I missed were HM removal and the Pokémon Centre functionalities, and those were counterbalanced by the better exp system and stronger opponents.
Edit: Should clarify I'm talking about going through the game. Later games make it easier to build competitive mons which is great, but Sword/Shield in particular made the post-game facilities easy so that's not really useful in the way they'd have been in earlier generations.

 

[Defiant]

FRLG infinitely better than yellow, only thing missing was Yellow let you get all 3 starters.
HGSS infinitely better than Crystal, would be nice to have GS Ball, but even then limited to Japan only initially.

ORAS on par with Emerald, had a lot missing, no BF, unable to get other mascot, lacked some content but did do Delta Episode, new Megas, Deoxys

BDSP significantly worse than Platinum. Lots of missing content, only Mew and Jirachi to make up for it, even then need other games too.

 

[SmolDawn]

I'm still salty about the finished soundtrack not being on the physical cartridges, but from what I'm heard of the music from the patch, I'm really impressed. It was well worth them taking the extra time to get it right. The Gym Leader and Elite Four themes are outstanding.

How is it bad that they're not on the cartridges? You're still able to easily download it.

 

[Minya_Nouvelle]

How is it bad that they're not on the cartridges? You're still able to easily download it.

There will eventually come a time when that won't be the case anymore; when Nintendo discontinues the Switch and shuts down its eShop. If the music was on the cartridge, it wouldn't matter; you'd still be able to find a physical game and get the full soundtrack. But now, it is possible to lose the patch and it would be much more difficult to get it again. Granted, it will probably still be years before this happens.

 

[SmolDawn]

There will eventually come a time when that won't be the case anymore; when Nintendo discontinues the Switch and shuts down its eShop. If the music was on the cartridge, it wouldn't matter; you'd still be able to find a physical game and get the full soundtrack. But now, it is possible to lose the patch and it would be much more difficult to get it again. Granted, it will probably still be years before this happens.

Oh thanks for clarifying!

 

[Okido]

Yeah, so much content being stuck behind the patch kinda sucks from a game preservation standpoint.
There have been lots of video games in the past that have been wiped out due to relying on their console's internet services, and when those get shut down, they inevitably end up lost to time or unplayable. BDSP looks like a candidate to be next, due to the sheer amount of stuff it's patching in — any unpatched cartridges years and years from now could likely just stay in that unfinished state forever.