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Least Favorite Saga

Least Favorite Saga?

  • Kanto

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Orange Islands

    Votes: 2 1.8%
  • Johto

    Votes: 13 11.7%
  • Hoenn

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Battle Frontier

    Votes: 1 0.9%
  • Diamond and Pearl

    Votes: 3 2.7%
  • Best Wishes

    Votes: 51 45.9%
  • Kalos

    Votes: 8 7.2%
  • Sun and Moon

    Votes: 29 26.1%
  • Journeys

    Votes: 2 1.8%

  • Total voters
    111
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True, I doubt many people will choose it right no, and if they do and then change their mind they can also change their vote.
Speaking for myself it would have to actively make decisions to spite the viewers, plus the flaws mentioned.

Heck it's why I can highly enjoy Sun and Moon. It feels like there was some trying and even some enjoyment on the part of the writers. If Journey is more like this I'll probably be satisfied or indifferent.
 
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The misfires from BW are the one time I can help but feel that the decisions are made to be a turn off to any viewer.
If I recall correctly some people that felt Tobias was created for that reason; to make it clear Ash was not allowed to win and nothing was too ridiculous to enforce that status quo.

Why that longstanding mandate was overturned in Sun/Moon is a very interesting question we may never know the answer to--could be as simple as there being One Guy high up who retired or moved somewhere else.
 
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If I recall correctly some people that felt Tobias was created for that reason; to make it clear Ash was not allowed to win and nothing was too ridiculous to enforce that status quo.

Why that longstanding mandate was overturned in Sun/Moon is a very interesting question we may never know the answer to--could be as simple as there being One Guy high up who retired or moved somewhere else.
To me I suspect it's a combination of fearing the backlash they got from him losing Kalos along with wanting to finally progress Ash into him finally winning the big one which helps lead into Journeys with him now competing in the World Championship with a better sense of confidence.
 
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To me I suspect it's a combination of fearing the backlash they got from him losing Kalos along with wanting to finally progress Ash into him finally winning the big one which helps lead into Journeys with him now competing in the World Championship with a better sense of confidence.
I think I'll make a topic about why Ash won the Alola league; I think there is a lot of interesting discussion to have in that regards and I don't want to risk derailing this thread.

*
For the topic itself, I sort of have trouble answering. I've only seen small parts of the some of the series and mostly kept up with events online (time crunch, burnout, etc.) and even though BW and Sun/Moon sound very unappealing to me I can't judge them fairly.
Of the ones I saw enough of to feel comfortable having a full opinion of I'd go with Johto. It was just very boring for much of its run. It's rare I've watched a show with such a pivot where I really liked Kanto and the OI then the next season just became so tedious to sit through.
 
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I think I'll make a topic about why Ash won the Alola league; I think there is a lot of interesting discussion to have in that regards and I don't want to risk derailing this thread.

*
For the topic itself, I sort of have trouble answering. I've only seen small parts of the some of the series and mostly kept up with events online (time crunch, burnout, etc.) and even though BW and Sun/Moon sound very unappealing to me I can't judge them fairly.
Of the ones I saw enough of to feel comfortable having a full opinion of I'd go with Johto. It was just very boring for much of its run. It's rare I've watched a show with such a pivot where I really liked Kanto and the OI then the next season just became so tedious to sit through.
...Johto has a lot of design issues that honestly....warranted the changes later. Like May and Dawn's Contest quests solve lull zones that Johto had in spades. Heck Unova's battle club tournaments would have been good means of handling the filler.

I voted DP for some reasons on my end, though I retain that Paul is the best rival. He's a horrible person with some presentation issues, but he blows Gary out of the park.
 
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I voted DP for some reasons on my end, though I retain that Paul is the best rival. He's a horrible person with some presentation issues, but he blows Gary out of the park.
I was leaning towards DP at first, honestly, but I decided it did have some very strong points, they were just overshadowed for me by frustration at Ash being repeatedly crushed in one-sided battles throughout the series, even his final league match, which made it trying to portray him as a veteran trainer (and his Battle Frontier win at the end of AG) feel insincere.
 
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If I recall correctly some people that felt Tobias was created for that reason; to make it clear Ash was not allowed to win and nothing was too ridiculous to enforce that status quo.
1. Except that still has a means to an end in keeping the show at it's most profitable even if they possibly underestimated the backlash, but then how did the younger Japanese audiences take it?

Cause again XY was such a major shake up that clearly even the kids objected to BW.

And while I recognize the problem with this approach more, and am less charitable with it as time goes on?

It really seems more like a case of just business and not planning a proper loss this time around.

When BW introduced a plausible means for him to lose through Virgil, what is accomplished by making him lose to an idiot who makes Kanti and Unova more credible in comparison?

2. And as much as it was a poor move to bring Tobias out:

- He appears to be competent.

- A couple of Legendaries beating out a full team isn't much of a stretch. Can't say I've heard of a real life case where a low level, 5 Pokémon team from a newb player beat out a full team of higher level Pokémon.

- Ash still gets to take out a Latios and Darkrai. Don't get that kind of bragging right with Unova.

Doesn't make it good, but I think there's more to suggest it to be a misfire more than deliberate hate.
 
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There's a reason people consider Johto to be the land of fillers. :X3: :confused:
I'm aware of it's reputation and don't dispute the filler. Still gave more than BW though.

1. Continued Ash's growth, even the one iffy Badge he obtained felt more earned than say saving a Gym from Team Rocket.

Even the League loss didn't come off as a slight against him and even set up his plans to go to Hoenn.

And again his rivalry with Gary had some actual stake to it. Defeating him proved that the person starting last can come in first, VS he beat me several times so I must beat him.

2. Arguably still better Team Rocket. Barring how they were willing to not have the trio appear and had some successful missions leading up to the scrapped two parter, how different were they for the best?

Losses against Ash were as Dogasu pointed out weren't due to him being better but dumb moments on their part with the only difference is the lack of comedic mannerisms.

And not as often discussed lack of moments where we arguably feel for the trio. Like say Jessie being friends with a Blissey to a point where they give up free eats just to save that Pokémon's reputation in the Center.

See why I feel BW's misfires feel hateful?

And another bit on the Iris front which adds to why this Series/Season felt hateful. Misty as I said had more of a reason to look down on him due to not only slipping up, but because he was very irresponsible and more full of himself.

She honestly felt like she genuine was trying to push him into improving. Iris is just that internet troll not cutting you some slack and at best was a broken clock right twice a day.
 
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And another bit on the Iris front which adds to why this Series/Season felt hateful. Misty as I said had more of a reason to look down on him due to not only slipping up, but because he was very irresponsible and more full of himself.

She honestly felt like she genuine was trying to push him into improving. Iris is just that internet troll not cutting you some slack and at best was a broken clock right twice a day.
I agree that Iris could have been handled better, I don't think she even finished many of her goals. Including evolving Axew

Speaking for myself it would have to actively make decisions to spite the viewers, plus the flaws mentioned.

Heck it's why I can highly enjoy Sun and Moon. It feels like there was some trying and even some enjoyment on the part of the writers. If Journey is more like this I'll probably be satisfied or indifferent.
What do you think of Journeys so far?
 
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There's a reason people consider Johto to be the land of fillers. :X3: :confused:
To be honest, i miss the old fillers in pokémon. In my opinion, after the original series, the anime become so straight forth and unidirectional, even railed. In a way, the series become so much standardized and limited itself. Therefore, in my eyes, the always fantastic, mystic and intriguing world of Pokémon losed appeal. To some extent, i have similar impression in regard the games.

Otherwise, for good or for bad, the Sun and Moon series breakthrough the wearing formula. Once again the World of Pokémon was mystic, unpaired and unique. The unforeseen and the unexpected regain some space. Unfortunately, for me, the series is excessively childish

Besides to be uninspired, the johtho' fillers are more standardized in relation to Orange/Kanto one's. I think it is the key problem. After all, in my view, jotho was a pivotal stone to set the pace and the future formula of the franchise.
 
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I agree that Iris could have been handled better, I don't think she even finished many of her goals. Including evolving Axew
Yeah. They set up that goal for her and then decide "Hey! This thing is actually too marketable as its cute base form! Let's abandon the evolution plan and instead give her this fully evolved pseudo out of nowhere and have her go through a disobedience arc for the second time with it!" What a disappointment...
 
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Yeah. They set up that goal for her and then decide "Hey! This thing is actually too marketable as its cute base form! Let's abandon the evolution plan and instead give her this fully evolved pseudo out of nowhere and have her go through a disobedience arc for the second time with it!" What a disappointment...
I mean...there was also the fact Fraxure was a pain to draw and animate consistently on top of that
 
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I didn't know that part. Huh. Where was that stated?
Animators having trouble with it and marketing only wanting cute walking pokemon (hence why excadrill never does anything)
Also explains why Ash's BW team mainstays stayed the same, I guess, even though we see a dewott in an early episode and its animated beautifully

Nobody ever links to where it's said, but it's repeated on half a dozen websites, so I'm thinking there's some validity to it
 
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Alola, Kanto, Johto, Best wishesh, Journeys when it comes to take on gyms, league and amount of battles used abilities and strategies with swtiching, type immunities and other stuff...

they had some great battles but the fact that teams where unevolved and oponents had medicore teams....
 
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