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MATURE: Legend of Zelda: Minish Cap (Canceled)
- Thread starter Greninjaman
- Start date
Snuggle Tier List
What I tell you three times is true.
- Joined
- Feb 15, 2019
- Messages
- 340
- Reaction score
- 226
Hello! I have never played The Minish Cap! I have played other games in the Zelda series (Wind Waker, Twilight Princess, a Let's Play of Ocarina of Time), but I haven't actually played the specific game you're writing about. I do know of it, but for all intents and purposes it's just "that GBA one" to me.
Now, you might be wondering why I'm reviewing your fic if I'm not one-hundred-percent familiar with the source material. And that's a very valid point! I could very well lay outside your target audience, thus invalidating any and all criticism I have to give. But I have a reason, and this is not a universal opinion, but it's a reason nonetheless:
I believe fan fiction should be able to be read by anybody, even by people outside fandoms.
Why? Well, that's a bit of a tirade, but the short version is you're artificially limiting your audience. You're limiting the amount of potential readers, you're limiting the amount of reviews you could get, and you're limiting the butterfly effect of your story in general. Buuuut there's a counterargument that establishing already-established characters is a waste of time, that it's needless exposition that slows your whole fic down, and while I don't personally agree, that's a discussion for somewhere else. Long story short, if you agree with my opinion, then this review might be applicable. If not, please find where I live and kill me in my sleep (AKA "constructive criticism with a machete").
In summary: I have a rough idea of the franchise's most important characters (Link, Princess Zelda, Ganon/Ganondorf, that kid with the booger dripping from his nose on Outset Island), and I know most canon Zelda stories more-or-less follow the Hero's Journey (WARNING: Link to Tv Tropes). Oh, and anything bigger than an elephant is required by the gods to have a weak point. So, without further adieu, let's look at your introduction:
So, what do I, the reader, know about your story going in? Well, your content disclaimer is twice the size of your actual description, so I don't got much to work with. Based on my knowledge of the Zelda franchise and the mention of gore, I'm expecting some swordfighting. But most swordfighting in Zelda occurs against sometimes-sapient-sometimes-not monsters infused with evil, which could explain why you're on the edge of rating this fic Teen. Other than that...this is a fic based on the Minish Cap? The Minish Cap is a game in The Legend of Zelda franchise? Honestly, there's not much going on. I don't have much to hook me here, to give me an idea of what I'm reading and why I should read it. Besides decapitations. I like decapitation. If there isn't a decapitation within the first paragraph, I will be disappointed.
I'm disappointed.
Okay, joke's over, I'm shifting to serious critic mode. in the absence of a proper description, I read this first paragraph as the intended hook. This paragraph exists to entice the reader, to inspire confidence in the author, that you, Sir Greninjaman are a writer of many talents and abilities and that you have an important story to tell. And I'm just not getting that. There might be some canon-related ironic tension I'm missing, but this paragraph to me could've been condensed into "Zelda enters the blacksmith's."
Let me break it down. First, the first sentence:
The first sentence is, like it or not, about as far as many readers make it. If they don't see something that makes them want to read more, that inspires confidence in the author's abilities and vision, they will stop reading. And this sentence is...well, it's not the worst sentence I've ever seen. There's some imagery, details about the surroundings, and that's always nice. A pleasant way to show-not-tell exposition. But there's one hook I'm thinking of, the one hook that would satisfy my very-personal-and-not-at-all-universal tastes, and that hook is the characters. And I just don't see that hook.
Let's break it down even more. The first half of your first sentence is dedicated to introducing Princess Zelda:
So, as someone who has never played The Minish Cap and who is vaguely aware of who Zelda is, what do I know?
Ooookkkaaayyy...let's move on.
Wait, uh, “Master Smith" is literally named Smith? That's, uh, well, is that canon? That sounds like a canon thing. Either way, that's so blunt and stupid I can't help but smile.
In related news: apparently, Zelda is so Pictograph-genic that she can be recognized purely on sight. Which leads me to believe she's wearing the full princess getup. Lacey dress, tiara, jewelry, everything. Or that Mr. Smith is a friend of the royal family or something. I realize this is reading a lot like confused mutterings, but making the audience ask questions is a decent way to get them invested. Though I'm the kind of guy who would overanalyze a sandwich, so that might just be me.
Oh, and the subtext here is that Link's totally banging Zelda. Like, riding out to pick up a boy and take him to a festival? Classic romance trope, that. Not sure if that was your intention, but, uh, subtext's there! I'd ship it.
Okay, serious pivot; I'm noticing a pattern in your writing style that ties in to everything I've mentioned before. That pattern is weird sentence focus. Like this:
If I had beta read this, I would have done this:
You're telling, not showing. And what you're telling, your audience can already figure it out. Zelda walks into shop, says something. Smith looks up, long line to text is revealed to be Smith's. No other characters are in the scene, the audience has a pretty good idea of where things are going. So don't beat around the bush: cut the superfluous description that was already provided by context clues, add a single line break to denote change of speaker, and move "Smith said" up farther, as the audience usually can figure out who's speaking by the time they've finish (in this case, it's Smith speaking, because there's only two characters in the scene and Zelda isn't calling Smith "Princess!") There's exceptions, such as if a new character is being added to the scene, but you can probably figure out the implications yourself. Start reading fics with this in mind and you'll get a feel for it sooner or later.
I'd rather not bag on about this for too long. You probably already got the message. Let's keep going.
Remember how earlier when I was talking about how characters take the appearance of their archetype? Well, I did not expect a smith to wear glasses. Maybe that's my Minish Cap outsider status creeping in, but when I think of a blacksmith, I think big dude. Burly. Probably has a cool beard. Glasses don't really fit into that, at least in my head. So now I'm imagining a whole new un-stereotypical appearance for Smith, and you made that happen with five words:
Now, what I imagine Smith's appearance to be isn't, from an author's standpoint, predictable. Every person that reads your story is going to have a different interpretation. That isn't necessarily bad, per se; assuming your readers aren't actively trying to dislike your story (in which case, heck them), they're going to use their imagination to the best of their ability to "fill in the blanks", so to speak. Some people like to do this. Others, don't. Me, I'm in the former camp, but that's a very subjective opinion based on very subjective factors outside your control (reader's visual memory, familiarity with the topic, thought process, random bits and bobs on the reader's desk, etc.). So...I like this, but slap an asterisk on it.
Oh, and to me, Smith's Benjamin Franklin with a heroic build. Kicks butt during the day, reads philosophy at night. But that just my fanon, ready to be jossed at any moment because I'm not too familiar with the canon. I live on the edge, man. Moving on!
Wait, now we start describing Zelda's appearance? No! No, no, no. We're four paragraphs into this scene, Zelda's already had half a conversation. The confused image I had of Zelda in my head is completely falling apart, and now I'm doing the mental gymnastics of recontextualizing the scene again.
I think I know what's going on. You're trying go avoid the dreaded exposition dump. You don't want to layer on all the boring details at the start of a story, because then you'll bore your audience and then they'll find some other fic to read. As you should! You are doing a good thing! But at the same time, some scenes need exposition. They need context for the reader to understand what is happening, and that context needs to come sooner rather than later. Otherwise, you'll end up with confused readers trying to comprehend just what the what is going on.
How do you balance this? Unfortunately, dealing with exposition isn't one size fits all. In this case, off the top of my head, I'd recommend scrapping that line earlier about Zelda's blue eyes and blond hair and replace it with a little internal monologue. Something short, one or two sentences, where she justifies to herself her choice of outfit. Maybe even have her comment on it; does she like dressing casual, or does she long to return to her dress? That way, you're killing two birds with one stone; characterizing Zelda, and giving needed exposition. But there's definitely other ways of doing this, and I'd give it a good think. Just know what details a reader will need to visualize a scene, and make sure they're delivered before the reader starts making assumptions. Unless you want them making assumptions, in which case don't give details at all.
(Hey, this review is gaining an underlying theme! I did not intend for that to happen!I have no idea what I'm talking about!)
So I'm not the biggest Zelda fan. I don't compulsively play the games or scout the wikis for lore. But I do know Link is, canonically speaking, a blank slate. He's a very average dude with little-to-no personality besides being a hero, so that the player can slot their own personality into Link. Hence why you can rename Link in most Zelda games I'm aware of. Oh, and Link's a heavy sleeper, so that another character can wake him up and give exposition to the player.
For reasons that are probably obvious, this does not translate well to fan fiction. Characters need personality, they need likes and dislikes, they need opinions on the world around them. That's what makes them interesting to read, to see how they react when plot comes chugging their way, to see how they handle situations differently than you or I. They're vectors into a web of thought-provoking possibilities, standard-bearers for alternate realities we may or may not wish to make a little more real. They are the base of any idea presented in prose, and they should be fleshed out and developed at every possibility.
This scene is now occupied by three character who, five paragraphs in, we know far too little about. Does Zelda like dresses? Does she like being a princess? What are her thoughts on her royal responsibilities? What are her royal responsibilities? Does Link know? Does Link care? I'm picking up hints that Zelda and Link got some romantic relationship. How serious is it? Why are these people attracted to each other? Is Link in it for the fame and privilegeand dat booty, or do these characters have an emotional connection on some level? They seem to have some sort of history; what does that entail? Do I have to break out The Legend of Zelda timeline? Gosh-heck it, I don't wanna break out The Legend of Zelda timeline!
I'm bringing characterization up because this was a painful paragraph to read. When you have a scene occupied entirely with underdeveloped characters, you turn what would be engaging dialogue into exposition. This paragraph only serves to get Zelda and Link out the door for the Picori Festival. And this is just one paragraph, and it's not the end of the world. These characters might become better developed as time passes, and this is just a stepping stone to make that happen. But it was a rough stone, and I did not enjoy it.
For the record, these past couple paragraphs were not fun to write. I realise I'm coming off a little entitled from the safety of the reviewer's couch, but considering how important characterization is to prose, I went with the blunt approach. It's entirely possible these characters have already be thoroughly characterized in The Minish Cap, and thus I'm complaining about something that doesn't even exist for this fic's target audience. If that's the case, please ignore my ramblings and start sharpening your constructive criticism machete.
(note: I'm going to start skipping around a bit, as going paragraph-by-paragraph would lead me to repreating the same points over and over. I'm not an english teacher, this ain't a pop quiz, you will not be graded on reading comprehension. Yadda yadda getting on with it)
Just a heads up; a man unexpectedly touching is never a giggle-level offense, now matter how romantically involved they are. I may be the proud owner of a penis myself, but I know not to touch a woman without her explicit intent. Even the most cuddly actually-in-love couples never escalate beyond a tickle fight, and I know that from personal experience. Not, uh, that I was in a cuddly relations. I, uh, don't actually have a girlfriend. Um, I, uh...moving on!
Up to this point, you were using the walk to the Picori Festival to develop the relationship between Zelda and Link. That's good! Characterization is good, as I spent way too much time ranting about! But this section of text changes gears. Now we're back in exposition territory, with Zelda and Link trading off speaking duty as they explain the known backstory of the Picori. And while they're doing this, they aren't expressing any of the characterization they had been given up to that point. In fact, seeing how Link has been egging on Zelda about her worrying about him, there's a little tension in the air. Zelda feels spurned by Link not attending the Picori Festival last year, Link feels betrayed by Zelda not trusting him to show up. And none of this is being addressed as they make small talk about decorations.
I realize the point if the above quote was to explain the history of the Picori. But the premise of this conversation goes against Zelda and Link's previous characterization as giggling lovers. Thus, the dialogue feels awkward - because it is! There are serious grievances that were left on the table, and instead of addressing these grievances, they chose to talk about something else. And I know this wasn't intentional, you wanted to explain some backstory in a natural conversation. But Zelda and Link need to have their characterization referenced. You could use body language to signal the conversation is just an awkward distraction from the previous topic, or put the plot on hold as Zelda and Link clear the air. They seem in love, a simple “I'm sorry" would work wonders. Then you can have one of the characters express a fascination with the Picori Festival, giving them a reason to want to talk about it.
In other words: let the characters drive the plot. If you design your characters cleverly, you can drop truckloads of exposition without even trying. And then, you'll find the story writes itself a little bit, as the characters just do what they've been established to do. It's a weird, euphoric feeling that's hard to explain, but feel it once and you'll be craving it your entire life. It's like a drug, only it makes you creative and gives you energy. So it's a drug, but don't tell the FDA or I'll come to your house with a constructive criticism machette.
Uuuuuuuuuuggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh...
I have I confession to make. I do not like The Legend of Zelda's canon storytelling. I like the presentation, I like the feeling of adventure, but the stories have all fell flat. They're too childish, too naive, to the point where the only healthy way to engage with them as stories is to not take them too seriously.
Dream visions are a very LoZ trope. It's not exclusively a LoZ trope; since we're on a Pokemon forum, I feel obligated to point out Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Red & Blue Rescue Team had recurring dream visions as a major plot point. But Rescue Team is an extremely childish game with no pretensions whatsoever. It is a game more about living in a very particular bread of idealistic world than about plot or characters or even gameplay.
(PokeSide note: Mystery Dungeon has its roots in games far removed from the Pokemon universe, with the same core gameplay being adapted to various licensed properties. In other words, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon's gameplay was shoplifted from other games as it was a tried-and-tested formula that emulated the adventure feel. So when I say gameplay isn't all that important to the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon series, this is what I'm talking about)
The Legend of Zelda is a kid's game, sure. But it takes itself seriously. There are legitimate attempts at dark and mature subjects through the franchise's history. The Redeads. The twilight zone in Twilight Princess. The future hellscape in Ocarina of Time. But it's also tied to a childish narrative about a young hero chosen by the god's prophecy to defeat evil and rescue maidens and battle monsters. And the clash of these two ideas is a very, very thin tightrope.
When it works, it's a cute storybook-esque tale you tell you kids. But for me, if I wanted innocent childbook storytelling, I'd replay Red Rescue Team. And seeing dream visions pop up in a fic rated Mature is giving me serious pause for concern.
Take this as more evidence that I'm outside your target demographic. I'm starting to feel like that myself.
Let's talk about tone.
Tone, and this my personal definition I use for myself, is the atmosphere of a scene. For instance, if the characters are having a conversation in a room full of dead bodies, there is going to be a morbid tone. If the characters are having a conversation about the size of a particular person's butt, there is going to be a comedic tone. If the characters are having a conversation about the size of a particular person's butt while in a room full of dead bodies, there's going to be a absurd tone. And so on.
Readers sense tone, just like they sense the tone of real-life conversations and events. If you write a scene where everyone's rioting and then have all your characters break out into a musical number, your readers are going to be a little confused. And I do think this quoted paragraph has a major tonal error. And that error is "serious conversation immediately followed by festival games".
However! There's a way to cheat tonal constraints. You already know it. It's called the line break.
Consider the following:
This, while I wouldn't call it perfect, is a decent improvement. There's some grammah errors that need correcting, some redundant language, but that line break gives the reader a pause. Not only does it signify the passage of time, it stealth-signals to the reader "Hey! (Listen!) Reflect on what just happened!" Thus, the reader goes into the next scene with their minds more-or-less at ease, ready to accept whatever tone comes next.
And yeah, I'm skipping some low-hanging fruit. I'm going off the assumption that you're spotting the more basic grammah as I quote you. And I've already mentioned redundancy, and it'd be redundant to criticize redundancy every time I see redundancy, as that would be redundant. Just know I'm hanging back a bit in the name of constructive criticism. Don't go developing no ego, Mr. Jaman.
I have never played Zelda before. What is a Triforce?
Yeah, I'm being difficult on purpose here. Up until this point, someone who has never played Zelda could've read your fic and have a good enough idea what's going. All simple fantasy, kings and queens and all that, and anything unique to Zelda has been explained through exposition. And then you name-drop the Triforce.
I'm not gonna rag on you for this, as explaining elements of a fic's franchise can be redundant for fans of that franchise. Just keep in mind it's going to exclude those not in your target audience (in this case, Zelda fans). I already talked about this before, I won't bring it up again. Did I mention redundancy? I don't think I mentioned redundancy. I've never redundant, you see.
rimshot
Hey, I know that name! Vaati's a bad guy! This is bad! Oh, no!
Seriously, there's some irony here. And by irony, I mean dramatic irony. The audience, being Zelda fans, recognize the name Vaati. The characters don't. Thus, tension! Weird fuzzy feeling! It's like saying the name of a movie in that movie, only not as short-lived and not as easy to execute. The audience feels smart, and feeling smart is never a bad feeling.
...wait. If Vaati is powerful enough to just blast his way through the guardd, then why did he bother winning the swordsmanship contest? Why not just attend the Picori Festival like a normal dude, then when the award ceremony starts, blast his way to the chest? Seems like a lot less effort on his part. I mean, I'd suppose he'd have to blast through more guards that way, but Vaati is looking a little invincible right now. Seems like he could've just saved himself some time by just assaulting the castle any day of his choosing.
Now, maybe if there was some complicated procedure where only trusted castle guards had to turn keys in unison in order to open this particular chest, and there's some magic-babble about how the chest can't be forced open or whatnot. Then it'd make sense to infiltrate the sword contest. And you wouldn't even need exposition; just show an intricate procedure where the chest is unlocked.
Also, Vaati first word of dialogue was "Fools!". I'm sorry, I've watched Austin Powers, I can't take Vaati seriously as a villain. Ham it up and make it a comedy, or make the villain a little less "children's cartoon". It's the burden of labeling your mature, and (in my opinion) the stumbling block that makes me a Pokemon fan over a The Legend of Zelda fan.
Wait, what? Uh, I think I'm...but then, why would the...but then, why would...you know what, nevermind. This ceremony was weird. My brain's knotted. I've been reviewing fan fiction for too long.
So, uh, yeah...that's about it. Honest opinion, now that I've read the entire thing and gone into the nitty-gritty, I don't think this fic was meant for me. I do think my review has some value, but I am outside your target audience. There's just too many bad opinions getting in the way of me enjoying this fic. And that says more about me than you. Still, that said, I think you got a long way to the top if you wanna rock and roll. If you take anything out of my review, work on redundancy and building your characters and redundancy. Get it? 'Cause I did the joke, and it's redundant, and I...
...I'll show myself out.
Now, you might be wondering why I'm reviewing your fic if I'm not one-hundred-percent familiar with the source material. And that's a very valid point! I could very well lay outside your target audience, thus invalidating any and all criticism I have to give. But I have a reason, and this is not a universal opinion, but it's a reason nonetheless:
I believe fan fiction should be able to be read by anybody, even by people outside fandoms.
Why? Well, that's a bit of a tirade, but the short version is you're artificially limiting your audience. You're limiting the amount of potential readers, you're limiting the amount of reviews you could get, and you're limiting the butterfly effect of your story in general. Buuuut there's a counterargument that establishing already-established characters is a waste of time, that it's needless exposition that slows your whole fic down, and while I don't personally agree, that's a discussion for somewhere else. Long story short, if you agree with my opinion, then this review might be applicable. If not, please find where I live and kill me in my sleep (AKA "constructive criticism with a machete").
In summary: I have a rough idea of the franchise's most important characters (Link, Princess Zelda, Ganon/Ganondorf, that kid with the booger dripping from his nose on Outset Island), and I know most canon Zelda stories more-or-less follow the Hero's Journey (WARNING: Link to Tv Tropes). Oh, and anything bigger than an elephant is required by the gods to have a weak point. So, without further adieu, let's look at your introduction:
Greninjaman said:
So, what do I, the reader, know about your story going in? Well, your content disclaimer is twice the size of your actual description, so I don't got much to work with. Based on my knowledge of the Zelda franchise and the mention of gore, I'm expecting some swordfighting. But most swordfighting in Zelda occurs against sometimes-sapient-sometimes-not monsters infused with evil, which could explain why you're on the edge of rating this fic Teen. Other than that...this is a fic based on the Minish Cap? The Minish Cap is a game in The Legend of Zelda franchise? Honestly, there's not much going on. I don't have much to hook me here, to give me an idea of what I'm reading and why I should read it. Besides decapitations. I like decapitation. If there isn't a decapitation within the first paragraph, I will be disappointed.
Greninjaman said:
I'm disappointed.
Okay, joke's over, I'm shifting to serious critic mode. in the absence of a proper description, I read this first paragraph as the intended hook. This paragraph exists to entice the reader, to inspire confidence in the author, that you, Sir Greninjaman are a writer of many talents and abilities and that you have an important story to tell. And I'm just not getting that. There might be some canon-related ironic tension I'm missing, but this paragraph to me could've been condensed into "Zelda enters the blacksmith's."
Let me break it down. First, the first sentence:
Greninjaman said:
The first sentence is, like it or not, about as far as many readers make it. If they don't see something that makes them want to read more, that inspires confidence in the author's abilities and vision, they will stop reading. And this sentence is...well, it's not the worst sentence I've ever seen. There's some imagery, details about the surroundings, and that's always nice. A pleasant way to show-not-tell exposition. But there's one hook I'm thinking of, the one hook that would satisfy my very-personal-and-not-at-all-universal tastes, and that hook is the characters. And I just don't see that hook.
Let's break it down even more. The first half of your first sentence is dedicated to introducing Princess Zelda:
Greninjaman said:
So, as someone who has never played The Minish Cap and who is vaguely aware of who Zelda is, what do I know?
- Zelda is a Princess. Thus, she has some sort of royal authority. Good info, and it only took one word! Props where props are due!
- Zelda has blue eyes and long blond hair. Personally, I've never cared for physical descriptions of characters unless they reveal something more than skin deep (i.e. outfit of their previous-unknown profession, a scar implying a backstory, an atypical view of their social class), and Zelda's blue eyes and blond hair aren't telling me anything. If anything, they're saying "Zelda looks like a princess", but that was already implied by calling her Princess Zelda. That is: until evidence is provided to the contrary, a character is assumed to look like the most generic version of their archetype as possible. Thus, telling me Zelda has long blond hair and blue eyes is redundant. However...
- Zelda is traveling by herself through a rural-ish area. This would imply that she's got a do-it-herself ruggedness to her, which would've informed my view of her appearance if you hadn't already give a physical description. And the rugged do-it-yourself Zelda, to me, is a much more interesting archetype than Royal McRoyalty I'm-a-Princess Zelda (DISCLAIMER: I have a penis). This is more of a me thing and my complete, overwhelming, dripping-out-my-pores hatred for fantasizing inherited power structures that are stupid ideas why do people think kings and queens are in any way appealing STUPID STUPID
- takes medication
Ooookkkaaayyy...let's move on.
Greninjaman said:
Wait, uh, “Master Smith" is literally named Smith? That's, uh, well, is that canon? That sounds like a canon thing. Either way, that's so blunt and stupid I can't help but smile.
In related news: apparently, Zelda is so Pictograph-genic that she can be recognized purely on sight. Which leads me to believe she's wearing the full princess getup. Lacey dress, tiara, jewelry, everything. Or that Mr. Smith is a friend of the royal family or something. I realize this is reading a lot like confused mutterings, but making the audience ask questions is a decent way to get them invested. Though I'm the kind of guy who would overanalyze a sandwich, so that might just be me.
Oh, and the subtext here is that Link's totally banging Zelda. Like, riding out to pick up a boy and take him to a festival? Classic romance trope, that. Not sure if that was your intention, but, uh, subtext's there! I'd ship it.
Okay, serious pivot; I'm noticing a pattern in your writing style that ties in to everything I've mentioned before. That pattern is weird sentence focus. Like this:
Greninjaman said:
If I had beta read this, I would have done this:
Greninjaman said:
You're telling, not showing. And what you're telling, your audience can already figure it out. Zelda walks into shop, says something. Smith looks up, long line to text is revealed to be Smith's. No other characters are in the scene, the audience has a pretty good idea of where things are going. So don't beat around the bush: cut the superfluous description that was already provided by context clues, add a single line break to denote change of speaker, and move "Smith said" up farther, as the audience usually can figure out who's speaking by the time they've finish (in this case, it's Smith speaking, because there's only two characters in the scene and Zelda isn't calling Smith "Princess!") There's exceptions, such as if a new character is being added to the scene, but you can probably figure out the implications yourself. Start reading fics with this in mind and you'll get a feel for it sooner or later.
I'd rather not bag on about this for too long. You probably already got the message. Let's keep going.
Greninjaman said:
Remember how earlier when I was talking about how characters take the appearance of their archetype? Well, I did not expect a smith to wear glasses. Maybe that's my Minish Cap outsider status creeping in, but when I think of a blacksmith, I think big dude. Burly. Probably has a cool beard. Glasses don't really fit into that, at least in my head. So now I'm imagining a whole new un-stereotypical appearance for Smith, and you made that happen with five words:
Greninjaman said:
Now, what I imagine Smith's appearance to be isn't, from an author's standpoint, predictable. Every person that reads your story is going to have a different interpretation. That isn't necessarily bad, per se; assuming your readers aren't actively trying to dislike your story (in which case, heck them), they're going to use their imagination to the best of their ability to "fill in the blanks", so to speak. Some people like to do this. Others, don't. Me, I'm in the former camp, but that's a very subjective opinion based on very subjective factors outside your control (reader's visual memory, familiarity with the topic, thought process, random bits and bobs on the reader's desk, etc.). So...I like this, but slap an asterisk on it.
Oh, and to me, Smith's Benjamin Franklin with a heroic build. Kicks butt during the day, reads philosophy at night. But that just my fanon, ready to be jossed at any moment because I'm not too familiar with the canon. I live on the edge, man. Moving on!
Greninjaman said:
Wait, now we start describing Zelda's appearance? No! No, no, no. We're four paragraphs into this scene, Zelda's already had half a conversation. The confused image I had of Zelda in my head is completely falling apart, and now I'm doing the mental gymnastics of recontextualizing the scene again.
I think I know what's going on. You're trying go avoid the dreaded exposition dump. You don't want to layer on all the boring details at the start of a story, because then you'll bore your audience and then they'll find some other fic to read. As you should! You are doing a good thing! But at the same time, some scenes need exposition. They need context for the reader to understand what is happening, and that context needs to come sooner rather than later. Otherwise, you'll end up with confused readers trying to comprehend just what the what is going on.
How do you balance this? Unfortunately, dealing with exposition isn't one size fits all. In this case, off the top of my head, I'd recommend scrapping that line earlier about Zelda's blue eyes and blond hair and replace it with a little internal monologue. Something short, one or two sentences, where she justifies to herself her choice of outfit. Maybe even have her comment on it; does she like dressing casual, or does she long to return to her dress? That way, you're killing two birds with one stone; characterizing Zelda, and giving needed exposition. But there's definitely other ways of doing this, and I'd give it a good think. Just know what details a reader will need to visualize a scene, and make sure they're delivered before the reader starts making assumptions. Unless you want them making assumptions, in which case don't give details at all.
(Hey, this review is gaining an underlying theme! I did not intend for that to happen!
Greninjaman said:
So I'm not the biggest Zelda fan. I don't compulsively play the games or scout the wikis for lore. But I do know Link is, canonically speaking, a blank slate. He's a very average dude with little-to-no personality besides being a hero, so that the player can slot their own personality into Link. Hence why you can rename Link in most Zelda games I'm aware of. Oh, and Link's a heavy sleeper, so that another character can wake him up and give exposition to the player.
For reasons that are probably obvious, this does not translate well to fan fiction. Characters need personality, they need likes and dislikes, they need opinions on the world around them. That's what makes them interesting to read, to see how they react when plot comes chugging their way, to see how they handle situations differently than you or I. They're vectors into a web of thought-provoking possibilities, standard-bearers for alternate realities we may or may not wish to make a little more real. They are the base of any idea presented in prose, and they should be fleshed out and developed at every possibility.
This scene is now occupied by three character who, five paragraphs in, we know far too little about. Does Zelda like dresses? Does she like being a princess? What are her thoughts on her royal responsibilities? What are her royal responsibilities? Does Link know? Does Link care? I'm picking up hints that Zelda and Link got some romantic relationship. How serious is it? Why are these people attracted to each other? Is Link in it for the fame and privilege
I'm bringing characterization up because this was a painful paragraph to read. When you have a scene occupied entirely with underdeveloped characters, you turn what would be engaging dialogue into exposition. This paragraph only serves to get Zelda and Link out the door for the Picori Festival. And this is just one paragraph, and it's not the end of the world. These characters might become better developed as time passes, and this is just a stepping stone to make that happen. But it was a rough stone, and I did not enjoy it.
For the record, these past couple paragraphs were not fun to write. I realise I'm coming off a little entitled from the safety of the reviewer's couch, but considering how important characterization is to prose, I went with the blunt approach. It's entirely possible these characters have already be thoroughly characterized in The Minish Cap, and thus I'm complaining about something that doesn't even exist for this fic's target audience. If that's the case, please ignore my ramblings and start sharpening your constructive criticism machete.
(note: I'm going to start skipping around a bit, as going paragraph-by-paragraph would lead me to repreating the same points over and over. I'm not an english teacher, this ain't a pop quiz, you will not be graded on reading comprehension. Yadda yadda getting on with it)
Greninjaman said:
Just a heads up; a man unexpectedly touching is never a giggle-level offense, now matter how romantically involved they are. I may be the proud owner of a penis myself, but I know not to touch a woman without her explicit intent. Even the most cuddly actually-in-love couples never escalate beyond a tickle fight, and I know that from personal experience. Not, uh, that I was in a cuddly relations. I, uh, don't actually have a girlfriend. Um, I, uh...moving on!
Greninjaman said:
Up to this point, you were using the walk to the Picori Festival to develop the relationship between Zelda and Link. That's good! Characterization is good, as I spent way too much time ranting about! But this section of text changes gears. Now we're back in exposition territory, with Zelda and Link trading off speaking duty as they explain the known backstory of the Picori. And while they're doing this, they aren't expressing any of the characterization they had been given up to that point. In fact, seeing how Link has been egging on Zelda about her worrying about him, there's a little tension in the air. Zelda feels spurned by Link not attending the Picori Festival last year, Link feels betrayed by Zelda not trusting him to show up. And none of this is being addressed as they make small talk about decorations.
I realize the point if the above quote was to explain the history of the Picori. But the premise of this conversation goes against Zelda and Link's previous characterization as giggling lovers. Thus, the dialogue feels awkward - because it is! There are serious grievances that were left on the table, and instead of addressing these grievances, they chose to talk about something else. And I know this wasn't intentional, you wanted to explain some backstory in a natural conversation. But Zelda and Link need to have their characterization referenced. You could use body language to signal the conversation is just an awkward distraction from the previous topic, or put the plot on hold as Zelda and Link clear the air. They seem in love, a simple “I'm sorry" would work wonders. Then you can have one of the characters express a fascination with the Picori Festival, giving them a reason to want to talk about it.
In other words: let the characters drive the plot. If you design your characters cleverly, you can drop truckloads of exposition without even trying. And then, you'll find the story writes itself a little bit, as the characters just do what they've been established to do. It's a weird, euphoric feeling that's hard to explain, but feel it once and you'll be craving it your entire life. It's like a drug, only it makes you creative and gives you energy. So it's a drug, but don't tell the FDA or I'll come to your house with a constructive criticism machette.
Greninjaman said:
Uuuuuuuuuuggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh...
I have I confession to make. I do not like The Legend of Zelda's canon storytelling. I like the presentation, I like the feeling of adventure, but the stories have all fell flat. They're too childish, too naive, to the point where the only healthy way to engage with them as stories is to not take them too seriously.
Dream visions are a very LoZ trope. It's not exclusively a LoZ trope; since we're on a Pokemon forum, I feel obligated to point out Pokemon Mystery Dungeon: Red & Blue Rescue Team had recurring dream visions as a major plot point. But Rescue Team is an extremely childish game with no pretensions whatsoever. It is a game more about living in a very particular bread of idealistic world than about plot or characters or even gameplay.
(PokeSide note: Mystery Dungeon has its roots in games far removed from the Pokemon universe, with the same core gameplay being adapted to various licensed properties. In other words, Pokemon Mystery Dungeon's gameplay was shoplifted from other games as it was a tried-and-tested formula that emulated the adventure feel. So when I say gameplay isn't all that important to the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon series, this is what I'm talking about)
The Legend of Zelda is a kid's game, sure. But it takes itself seriously. There are legitimate attempts at dark and mature subjects through the franchise's history. The Redeads. The twilight zone in Twilight Princess. The future hellscape in Ocarina of Time. But it's also tied to a childish narrative about a young hero chosen by the god's prophecy to defeat evil and rescue maidens and battle monsters. And the clash of these two ideas is a very, very thin tightrope.
When it works, it's a cute storybook-esque tale you tell you kids. But for me, if I wanted innocent childbook storytelling, I'd replay Red Rescue Team. And seeing dream visions pop up in a fic rated Mature is giving me serious pause for concern.
Take this as more evidence that I'm outside your target demographic. I'm starting to feel like that myself.
Greninjaman said:
Let's talk about tone.
Tone, and this my personal definition I use for myself, is the atmosphere of a scene. For instance, if the characters are having a conversation in a room full of dead bodies, there is going to be a morbid tone. If the characters are having a conversation about the size of a particular person's butt, there is going to be a comedic tone. If the characters are having a conversation about the size of a particular person's butt while in a room full of dead bodies, there's going to be a absurd tone. And so on.
Readers sense tone, just like they sense the tone of real-life conversations and events. If you write a scene where everyone's rioting and then have all your characters break out into a musical number, your readers are going to be a little confused. And I do think this quoted paragraph has a major tonal error. And that error is "serious conversation immediately followed by festival games".
However! There's a way to cheat tonal constraints. You already know it. It's called the line break.
Consider the following:
Greninjaman said:
This, while I wouldn't call it perfect, is a decent improvement. There's some grammah errors that need correcting, some redundant language, but that line break gives the reader a pause. Not only does it signify the passage of time, it stealth-signals to the reader "Hey! (Listen!) Reflect on what just happened!" Thus, the reader goes into the next scene with their minds more-or-less at ease, ready to accept whatever tone comes next.
And yeah, I'm skipping some low-hanging fruit. I'm going off the assumption that you're spotting the more basic grammah as I quote you. And I've already mentioned redundancy, and it'd be redundant to criticize redundancy every time I see redundancy, as that would be redundant. Just know I'm hanging back a bit in the name of constructive criticism. Don't go developing no ego, Mr. Jaman.
Greninjaman said:
I have never played Zelda before. What is a Triforce?
Yeah, I'm being difficult on purpose here. Up until this point, someone who has never played Zelda could've read your fic and have a good enough idea what's going. All simple fantasy, kings and queens and all that, and anything unique to Zelda has been explained through exposition. And then you name-drop the Triforce.
I'm not gonna rag on you for this, as explaining elements of a fic's franchise can be redundant for fans of that franchise. Just keep in mind it's going to exclude those not in your target audience (in this case, Zelda fans). I already talked about this before, I won't bring it up again. Did I mention redundancy? I don't think I mentioned redundancy. I've never redundant, you see.
rimshot
Greninjaman said:
Hey, I know that name! Vaati's a bad guy! This is bad! Oh, no!
Seriously, there's some irony here. And by irony, I mean dramatic irony. The audience, being Zelda fans, recognize the name Vaati. The characters don't. Thus, tension! Weird fuzzy feeling! It's like saying the name of a movie in that movie, only not as short-lived and not as easy to execute. The audience feels smart, and feeling smart is never a bad feeling.
Greninjaman said:
...wait. If Vaati is powerful enough to just blast his way through the guardd, then why did he bother winning the swordsmanship contest? Why not just attend the Picori Festival like a normal dude, then when the award ceremony starts, blast his way to the chest? Seems like a lot less effort on his part. I mean, I'd suppose he'd have to blast through more guards that way, but Vaati is looking a little invincible right now. Seems like he could've just saved himself some time by just assaulting the castle any day of his choosing.
Now, maybe if there was some complicated procedure where only trusted castle guards had to turn keys in unison in order to open this particular chest, and there's some magic-babble about how the chest can't be forced open or whatnot. Then it'd make sense to infiltrate the sword contest. And you wouldn't even need exposition; just show an intricate procedure where the chest is unlocked.
Also, Vaati first word of dialogue was "Fools!". I'm sorry, I've watched Austin Powers, I can't take Vaati seriously as a villain. Ham it up and make it a comedy, or make the villain a little less "children's cartoon". It's the burden of labeling your mature, and (in my opinion) the stumbling block that makes me a Pokemon fan over a The Legend of Zelda fan.
Greninjaman said:
Wait, what? Uh, I think I'm...but then, why would the...but then, why would...you know what, nevermind. This ceremony was weird. My brain's knotted. I've been reviewing fan fiction for too long.
So, uh, yeah...that's about it. Honest opinion, now that I've read the entire thing and gone into the nitty-gritty, I don't think this fic was meant for me. I do think my review has some value, but I am outside your target audience. There's just too many bad opinions getting in the way of me enjoying this fic. And that says more about me than you. Still, that said, I think you got a long way to the top if you wanna rock and roll. If you take anything out of my review, work on redundancy and building your characters and redundancy. Get it? 'Cause I did the joke, and it's redundant, and I...
...I'll show myself out.
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@Snuggle Tier List
I made the changes that you recommended, as well as doing my own edits. About Vatti wiping the floor with the guards, I want him to seem invincible, because that's what happens in the game. He wipes out the four guards and breaks the sword all without breaking a sweat. I also removed the thing about Link poking Zelda.
I made the changes that you recommended, as well as doing my own edits. About Vatti wiping the floor with the guards, I want him to seem invincible, because that's what happens in the game. He wipes out the four guards and breaks the sword all without breaking a sweat. I also removed the thing about Link poking Zelda.
Snuggle Tier List
What I tell you three times is true.
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Hey, don't be like that. Those jokes I made about how I'm not an expert, and that I'm outside your target demographic, and that I probably don't have any business reviewing your fic in the first place? I meant it.
Don't go changing your fic because some reviewer told you to. To you, I'm just some random dude on the internet. You barely know me, I barely you know. If you want to make changes to your fic, please do! But don't do it because I recommended it. Do it because you want to. Do it to make your writing better, as you would want it. It's your fic, you write it how you want to.
Just in case in wasn't clear. I might be being a little condescending here. You seem like a nice guy, willing to take criticism, and that's more than a lot of fanfic authors can say. Give yourself credit where credit's due, please.
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