SwSh Legendaries Discussion

[Matleo]

what if those 2 statues are Eternatus and Meteodyna? but that would be a little weird.

Hope this gen has less legendary(ultra beast) like pokemon and more regular new ones.

 

[Sheep40]

A little theory regarding Eternatus and Meteodyna: They incorporate elements of Arthurian, pagan (germanic and celtic, given Galar's real-word counterpart) and buddhist figures (buddhist as to oppose Unova's daoist).

Eternatus takes on Agravain (Outwardly dark and hateful, anti-hero at best), Tethra (death/darkness god), Odin (creates conflict to create heroes, stealth mentor, regarded as "curse-workers" or "evil makers", culture anti-hero) and Jizo (benevolent ruler of hell, perpetuates cycle) whilst outwardly projecting a dark-lord appearance akin to a combination of Darth Vader, Sauron, and Oryx. He is either dark-ghost or dark-fighting

Meteodyna takes on Lancelot (genuinely heroic, yet is prone to tautological extremes), Lugh (light god/culture hero), Tyr (god of justice, mechanical body prominently including left hand, famous for self-sacrifice, associated with sky, king of gods) and Kokuzo ("sky" association manifests as space or void; his name alludes to meteors or metoroic swords like Gurthang/Anglachael, twin of the buddha of hell). He has a more outwardly knightly form and is still mostly black in color, with white streaks. he is either psychic-fairy or psychic-steel, and takes after heroic figures.

 

[Myth]

About their types...by the numbers of their V cards on TCG (138~139/202), I saw some people speculating that at least their V cards could be steel type (TCG organizes cards by typing order).

It would be weird for them to make a big deal out of it if they're just both pure steel though.

 

[Phosphene]

I think the two will have the same typing, and will be dual-typed with one offensive type and one defensive type.

I'm pretty certain they'll be part Steel, which would fit the defensive type. I'd say Fighting would be fitting as the offensive type as it hits five types super effectively and is generally given to more offensively orientated Pokemon.

 

[Poke Dragon]

Again, if both are going to be Steel, then Zamazenta should have a type that resists the other type from Zacian. Zamazenta has a literal shield as its mane, so off course it should be able to resist any sword attack.

 

[Phosphene]

Again, if both are going to be Steel, then Zamazenta should have a type that resists the other type from Zacian. Zamazenta has a literal shield as its mane, so off course it should be able to resist any sword attack.

I don't understand. Reshiram and Zekrom are opposed yet neither secondary typing defeats/resists the other, for example.

 

[BigBadButterfree]

Again, if both are going to be Steel, then Zamazenta should have a type that resists the other type from Zacian. Zamazenta has a literal shield as its mane, so off course it should be able to resist any sword attack.

Why should the shield be able to block anything but the sword be unable to pierce anything? It's basically just that unstoppable force/immovable object thing.

In my opinion their types won't make sense mechanically but probably will lore-wise. And knowing GF they'll each have a special ability that ties into that.

 

[Sheep40]

Why should the shield be able to block anything but the sword be unable to pierce anything? It's basically just that unstoppable force/immovable object thing.

In my opinion their types won't make sense mechanically but probably will lore-wise. And knowing GF they'll each have a special ability that ties into that.

This I would not put past GF, not only in the Zacian/Zamazenta rivalry, but also Eternatus/Meteodyna and hopefully a theroized pair to cover those of Arthurs' weapons not depicted in Zacian/Zamazenta (probably ravens of some type, representing Arthur's spear Rhongomiyant and Dagger Carwennan).

 

[Myth]

Is it still worh speculating about them now that we are so close to the release (and likely also to leaks)?

Anyway, here are some things I've been thinking about them.

First, I found it interesting to know that the SwSh codename may have been "Orion". At least that was the name found by SciresM on the Japanese site:

Spoiler

View: https://twitter.com/SciresM/status/1172392615792107520

We know some of the codenames of previous projects, and they alone didn't seem to mean much, but it's interesting to know them nonetheless.

Obviously, the first thing that comes to mind are constellations. And then it's interesting to know the player gets something called "Wishing Star" at the start of games. Again, we need to keep in mind previous codenames didn't mean much, but it's an interesting thing to think about.

It's also interesting to remember that the Orion constellation is named after a figure from the Greek mythology (hunter Orion), and remember of the many stories about wolves of the Greek and Roman mythologies. Before we go any further, I also found it interesting to find out that "the brightest stars of the Orion constellation are the supergiants (massive luminous stars) blue-white Rigel (Beta Orionis) and red Betelgeuse (Alpha Orionis)".

Regarding the appearance of Zacian and Zamazenta, besides being wolves, it is curious to note that they are not only creatures with sword and shield traits, but that they also really resemble knights (we know that was intentional, as we saw Ohmori saying their names comes from "that Cyan (creature)!", "that Magenta (creature)!", since he intended them to be kind of rumors, and he also says that people on Galar would say "I saw this blue/red knight-looking creature!").

It can be just about design inspiration (knight-inspired Pokémon with no other extra-meaning behind it, simple as that). But it's really interesting to note they even have capes-like things (and to be honest, I love Zacian already, but Zamazenta design is also starting to grow on me). And yesterday we also found out that Zacian uses its fur (?) as a sheath for its sword:

Spoiler

It reminds me of that knight statue we saw in one of the trailers, and makes me wonder if there could be any relation:

Spoiler

And this brings us back to Greek and Roman mythologies. It's interesting to remember they have stories about humans being turned into wolves on certain occasions.

Now about their types and abilities.

It's interesting to go back to their the revealed V cards, and realize that TPC not only hide their types, weaknesses and resistances, but also their evolutionary stage category (hiding whether they are basic or not).

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler: and that brings us to the statement of some pre-reviewers, who said we met at the beginning of the game with the legendary of the cover "without its golden ornaments". As I said before, perhaps they may have a pre-evolution in common, as was the case with Solgaleo, Lunala and Cosmoem. And that Pokémon could maybe be their pre-evolution instead.

About their cards, they literally hide everything but the names of one of their moves. And speaking of moves, it's interesting to note two things: first, their names: "Brave Blade" and "Assault Tackle", that are pretty generic names.

Second, it is almost certain they're also hiding other moves and probably even abilities from their cards. If we look at the first EX/GX cards of Xerneas, Yveltal, Solgaleo and Lunala, for example, we see that it is very unlikely that Zacian and Zamazenta's card will be so inferior with just one movement, so they should be hiding some movements and probably their V card's abilities, as well.

And for them to be hiding it so much, there must be something at least unconventional coming from. Since they're also hiding their types, obviously the easiest guess to make is that their gimmicks have something to do with them.

We have seen many theories about that (the one that says they change their types freely, triple types, typeless, the unlikely "it's a new type" theory etc.). so I will refrain from speculating on this once more.

But I found it curious that their movements are so generic named. And again, as said a few posts ago, TCG usually organizes the cards by typing order, so by the number of their cards, following the conventional order and things we know, people speculate that at least those cards should be Dark, Fairy, or the most speculated type: Steel. But again, the types of their cards alone don't mean much, if we think about it.

Another little thing I noticed about story and perhaps about the legendaries, is that, coincidentally, we have 4 key characters (the protagonist and the 3 rivals: Hop, Marnie and Bede). And coincidentally the Raids support 4 players. I wonder if there will be any Raid with any of the legends that the four will have to fight together to defeat. But again, in SM we also had 4 key characters if we think about it (the protagonist, Hau, Gladion and Lillie), and we didn't have any Totem battles with legends, so maybe that means nothing.

There are other things that could be related to that, if we were to speculate...Like that city where a building has 4 different flags. Or some theories I've been seeing on twitter about the climate change in the Wild Area. There would be many possibilities for sure, but in the end, I think these ones don't hold much water, otherwise Affleck would have said something about it. They're just ideas.

 

[prog rocker]

You know, now that I think about it, I wonder if the reason Affleck thought we got only one wolf is because they're like Solgaleo and Lunala and have a common pre-evolution.

 

[Cute Charm]

Didn't the Affleck leak come out right after the first trailer? It didn't take much to double check if we got 2 wolves that are in fact in the same room forest clearing at the same time.

 

[prog rocker]

Didn't the Affleck leak come out right after the first trailer? It didn't take much to double check if we got 2 wolves that are in fact in the same room forest clearing at the same time.

I can't remember. Part of me says it came before the wolves' reveal, but I doubt it.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

It was posted on May 23, which does seem to be before the Dynamax trailer that confirmed the wolves. I don't remember if they were on the site before that, though.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_dgvgpC8Nw

 

[techitisJ]

The legendaries weren't on anything before. There was a huge news gap between the initial reveal in February, then another Pokemon Direct on June 5th, the only tiny tidbits being about the shirt contest and a Steel-type move naming contest (which might have happened after June 5th now that I think about it. Or before. Idk). No new Pokemon were revealed or anything though. It was only speculation that the legendaries were wolves because of the logos.

It is interesting that Affleck thought they were the same. I mean they do look quite similar. I would like to see another evolving legend, so I definitely wouldn't mind seeing a common pre-evo on these two.

 

[swiftgallade46]

Didn’t people who played the first 90 minutes of the games claim that

Spoiler

there was a scene where both wolves appeared without any armor

? Maybe they looked almost exactly the same in that instance.

 

[Myth]

Didn’t people who played the first 90 minutes of the games claim that

Spoiler

there was a scene where both wolves appeared without any armor

? Maybe they looked almost exactly the same in that instance.

Yes, that is what is being discussed.

Spoiler

But I think only one wolf appears.

 

[Dr. Turtwig MT]

Spoiler

If I remember correctly one of the previews states that you go to the foggy woods and see your versions legendary there without thier armor.

 

[Myth]

With that knight statue, and with what Ohmori said about the games' names in some interviews, about "whether people would use power to attack or to protect someone", I thought of this regarding Zacian and Zamazenta origins (has potential story spoiler given by reviewers):

Spoiler

An ancient knight could be losing some battle, so two of their Pokémon may have reacted in an attempt to help them. One may have taken their shield, in order to protect them, while the other may have taken their sword instead, in order to protect them by attacking the danger, and then they may have became Zacian and Zamazenta.

I'm sure I have seen a similar theory before. And that's a bit reminiscent of Odin and his two wolves, Geri and Freki, which has been very much discussed since the revelation of the wolf-headed logos (as well as Skoll and Hati).

But this would not explain the "wolf without the golden ornaments"-thing at the beginning of the game. Unless it's a retroactive evolution, or if they're weakened.

I have to say I also thought of Zacian and Zamazenta being humans, but that would be weird, and would raise a lot of questions (like, they'd probably like to go back to normal if that was the case?). And it would not explain the "wolf without the golden ornaments"-thing either.

Also, it makes sense to think that Meteodyna should be the cause of Dynamax, because of its name, but I hope it's not another clichéd explanation of things coming from space. Similarly, there is the question of why Eternatus is considered evil. Something like Necrozma for the second time in a row would also be boring.

I have to say we have so much different information that I'm concerned about how they will connect it all, or even if they will really be connected at all (I mean, that would be the ideal scenario).

 

[Sheep40]

With that knight statue, and with what Ohmori said about the games' names in some interviews, about "whether people would use power to attack or to protect someone", I thought of this regarding Zacian and Zamazenta origins:

Spoiler

An ancient knight could be losing some battle, so two of their Pokémon may have reacted in an attempt to help them. One may have taken their shield, in order to protect them, while the other may have taken their sword instead, in order to protect them by attacking the danger, and then they may have became Zacian and Zamazenta.

I'm sure I have seen a similar theory before. And that's a bit reminiscent of Odin and his two wolves, Geri and Freki, which has been very much discussed since the revelation of the wolf-headed logos (as well as Skoll and Hati).

But this would not explain the "wolf without the golden ornaments"-thing at the beginning of the game. Unless it's a retroactive evolution, or if they're weakened.

I have to say I also thought of Zacian and Zamazenta being humans, but that would be weird, and would raise a lot of questions (like, they'd probably like to go back to normal if that was the case?). And it would not explain the "wolf without the golden ornaments"-thing either.

Also, it makes sense to think that Meteodyna should be the cause of Dynamax, because of its name, but I hope it's not another clichéd explanation of things coming from space. Similarly, there is the question of why Eternatus is considered evil. Something like Necrozma for the second time in a row would also be boring.

I have to say we have so much different information that I'm concerned about how they will connect it all, or even if they will really be connected at all (I mean, that would be the ideal scenario).

A rather significant theme in my theroized story is that one either wishes to use power to protect what they love or destroy what they hate (a norse linguistic pun here; Zacian and Zamazenta are based off of Hati and Skoll, in other words hatred and treachary), and about how those two ends are ultimately the same, and lead to nothing but despair and abuse of power. Love and hate are often intimately connected, after all.

Eternatus I believe is considered evil because he is associated with darkness, and I imagine him to be some kind of large demonic figure. His role is that of a Winnower: he seperates true glory from false vainglory. He does this by throwing people and pokemon into unsavory situations and judging them on how they react. He's quite similar to the Jewish conception of Satan: he does bad things to people just to see how those people react. He's misinterpreted as malicious, though he just wants people and pokemon to get stronger for their own good. To this end, he empowered Zacian and Zamazenta with two artifacts infused with his own power (the brand of hate and the shild of treachery), and intended to have strong trainers defeat and capture them, before throwing them into a final trial to see whether they deserve such power. Dynamax was created by a monastic order that worships/is allied with him, and serves as the latest iteration in such a cycle.

The angelic Meteodyna on the other hand is simply seen as good due to its opposition to Eternatus (bein associated with light). However, just as Eternatus is ultimately altrustic in his goals, Meteodyna acts out of spite. He wishes to see a world of righteousness, and believes that right makes might, not the other way around. Meteodyna often seduces those who've failed Eternatus' trials into his service ad empowerment. A fundamentally dogmatic, tautalogical creature, Meteodyna watches carefully to see who is more dogmatic than strong, and empowers those sufficiently fanatical.

It should be stressed, however, that Eternatus is not good, nor is Meteodyna evil. They're gods that embody concepts, (think Daedra from the Elder Scrolls). their morality is different completely from humans because they have different priorities, and their thinking can come across as alien and unpredictable, even to other legendaries.

 

[Emmy]

Y'know, I've been thinking about that statue with the sword and shield and I would laugh if that's not actually a human but Zacian and Zamazenta's original form and fighting off some great evil caused them to split into two.