LGBTQ+ representation in the Pokemon anime

[lisianthus]

Piggybacking off of this thread, I wanted to see what people thought.
I do wonder if there will be any LGBT representation in the anime anytime soon?
People could say "well, it's a kids' show", but this argument is slowly being debunked with kids shows with LGBT characters and relationships slowly becoming more and more common (at least in the West, and Japanese culture does have some LGBT characters in shows that are more teen/adult oriented.)
I personally don't think that anything like this would happen in the anime, at least not yet, sadly (Japan still hasn't legalized gay marriage yet), however it was snuck in, in the XY games.
Most likely because of the programmers/writers for the games having more freedom with the games.
So what are your thoughts about this? Do you think there will ever be any LGBT characters in the anime?
Edit: I am in favor of this, by the way. It's a good part of the world normalizing LGBT stuff, and could give a great sense of identity to any kids/people (hell, Ash's character in XY has gotten me through really messing up before)
Edit #2: Preemptively, please make sure that you're being nice to one another. This is still a relatively sensitive topic (for some people), so please make sure to respect everyone in the thread, and their viewpoints, no matter how "wrong" you or I would feel.

 

[J Bouken]

As I see it, any shows depicting a world resembling our own should acknowledge people of all different types exist.

I don't see any harm in Pokemon having LBGT characters. There are kids out there (hell, even some adults out there) who might be LGBT or maybe unsure and I think it'd be awesome if they had positive fictional role-models to look up to rather than the caricatures we typically see in anime.

In addition to that, Pokemon is a global franchise with a vast reach and influence. It being at the forefront of normalising inclusivity could make a real impact on younger generations, especially as the fiction we consume can play a huge role in our world outlooks and the way we treat others.

And frankly, I've yet to see a compelling reason why this shouldn't happen.

 

[Schemer99]

I'd say give it 10 years ago, but I don't honestly know. Japan's social climate is a mystery to me and it's based on outdated information and niche subcultures.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I think it would be great to have some LGBTQ+ representation in the anime and the franchise as a whole. I don't know when it could happen for a few reasons, but it could really help kids and people in general have some positive representation in the anime. A major franchise like Pokemon having LGBTQ+ representation would be huge too.

 

[Galactic_V]

That's really complicated to answer. I'd say yes, but we're talking about a Japanese franchise. Few people here are familiar with such different culture, and I think only them'd be able to give a full verdict to that.

As far as my knowledge goes, I think those sort of things tend to be avoided in Japanese children shows (unless it's a side character of course). Course I'm not 100% sure of what I'm saying here, but that's the impression I have.

 

[Jewel the Quaxly]

I would say it depends, honestly, on how well they would execute such a thing. For one thing, the anime has never really been shown to explore any serious subjects or issues regarding racism, sexism, or any other kinds of discrimination so the most they would do is rely on subtlety and simply SHOWING LGBTQ+ characters rather than addressing it. But I'm not entirely sure how they would do that either-unless, perhaps, they would introduce a CotD or side character or main character who is shown to have a crush on someone of the same sex. I've personally never liked romance but I would say that works since they've done such episodes in the past.

I honestly don't really know because there isn't really a hallmark FOR said representation? For instance: Is just showing one character who is implied to be gay enough representation?

 

[Mr. MoonStone]

That's really complicated to answer. I'd say yes, but we're talking about a Japanese franchise. Few people here are familiar with such different culture, and I think only them'd be able to give a full verdict to that.

As far as my knowledge goes, I think those sort of things tend to be avoided in Japanese children shows (unless it's a side character of course). Course I'm not 100% sure of what I'm saying here, but that's the impression I have.

There are a few instances where LGBTQ characters have been introduced in children's anime (off of the top of my head, Sailor Moon & Cardcaptor Sakura come to mind), but it's pretty much unheard of in a shonen series to have queer protagonists. In the case of Pokémon, I think it could get even more complicated as the anime is produced with the intention of being released internationally.

However, I personally would love to see it. It would've made life a lot easier to have more queer characters to look up to as a kid. Although Pokémon isn't the most "romantically" focused series like other anime, it would be great to see some queer representation in show at some point.

 

[Galactic_V]

There are a few instances where LGBTQ characters have been introduced in children's anime (off of the top of my head, Sailor Moon & Cardcaptor Sakura come to mind), but it's pretty much unheard of in a shonen series to have queer protagonists. In the case of Pokémon, I think it could get even more complicated as the anime is produced with the intention of being released internationally.

Just something I'd like to point out, neither of those two are children's anime, per say. They were released as shoujo series in Japan (aimed at girls from 13 to 18 years old). Pokemon, on the other hand, is considered a kodomo (completely aimed at children), and even though its intent is to be released internationally, it's still a Japanese show, made to follow (mostly) Japan's culture standards.

 

[Mr. MoonStone]

Just something I'd like to point out, neither of those two are children's anime, per say. They were released as shoujo series in Japan (aimed at girls from 13 to 18 years old). Pokemon, on the other hand, is considered a kodomo (completely aimed at children), and even though its intent is to be released internationally, it's still a Japanese show, made to follow (mostly) Japan's culture standards.

That's true! I wouldn't necessarily classify the Sailor Moon anime (specifically, the '90s adaptation, not the manga or Crystal which are definitely geared towards teens) in the same category as kodomo like the Pokémon anime. However, just going off on personal experience in Japan and from what I've heard from boyfriend when he was a kid living in Japan, those titles, and more specifically, their anime adaptations, were always kind of viewed as something geared towards younger girls and children (like 5-7).

My second comment was more towards the point that international audiences would probably frown upon any same-sex relationships depicted in the series, even if by some chance LGBTQ characters were depicted in the anime. Although the anime is primarily produced with Japanese kids in mind, I wouldn't count out the possibility that they consider foreign markets in the process. However, I don't have much info on that to give any real or substantial answer outside of opinions lol, so if someone does (I think Dogasu may?) please clarify!

 

[ii kanji]

Speaking of Dogasu, he has posted a couple of tweets about canonically (albeit that info is not obvious in the show itself) LGBTQ+ characters recently:

 

[Galactic_V]

Speaking of Dogasu, he has posted a couple of tweets about canonically (albeit that info is not obvious in the show itself) LGBTQ+ characters recently:

Oh yeah, I do remember the first guy in that fashion episode. And I also record of some gay characters showing up in some shounen anime from the 80s, 90s and 00s, but it was never a good representation. They'd be mostly used for gags and jokes. The one that comes in my head is Gereral Blue from Dragon Ball, which is portrayed mostly as a gag character.

 

[ii kanji]

What is the consensus on Harley? (Is there one?) I haven’t watched an episode featuring him for donkey’s years but I think I’m right in recalling that he referred to himself by the pronoun ‘atashi

A feminine pronoun that strains from わたし ("watashi"). Rarely used in written language, but common in conversation, especially among younger women.

’. This plus other contextual clues makes me think there’s a definite possibility that he was intended to be LGBTQ+ even if it ain’t stated outright.

(If anyone knows more about Japanese language and culture would love to hear your interpretation of Harley’s pronoun sitch.)

 

[Galactic_V]

What is the consensus on Harley? (Is there one?) I haven’t watched an episode featuring him for donkey’s years but I think I’m right in recalling that he referred to himself by the pronoun ‘atashi

A feminine pronoun that strains from わたし ("watashi"). Rarely used in written language, but common in conversation, especially among younger women.

’. This plus other contextual clues makes me think there’s a definite possibility that he was intended to be LGBTQ+ even if it ain’t stated outright.

(If anyone knows more about Japanese language and culture would love to hear your interpretation of Harley’s pronoun sitch.)

Oh yeah, I forgot about him. It's been ages since I've watched a single episode where he shows up, but IIRC he's got a gay-like speaking pattern (just as you pointed out). If I got time, I'll try to watch an AG episode later where he appears and check it. Yeah, I'm sure it's never outright stated, but strongly implied by how he speaks.

 

[Mr. MoonStone]

Speaking of Dogasu, he has posted a couple of tweets about canonically (albeit that info is not obvious in the show itself) LGBTQ+ characters recently:

Twitter is currently freaking out (in a good way) about this piece of info


Miwa-san is such an icon! I hope more people learn about him and his AMAZING career!

 

[Hidden Mew]

Speaking of Dogasu, he has posted a couple of tweets about canonically (albeit that info is not obvious in the show itself) LGBTQ+ characters recently:

I remember the Chansey trainer. I would have thought that they could be a trans character instead, mainly due to how Ash and his friends' quick reaction to seeing him reminds me of the dated comedy of seeing men dress up as women. Not that having that kind of reaction towards a gay character is any better. I think that was also kind of typical of characters reacting to gay characters at the time too, which is problematic to say the least.

It took me a minute to recognize the character from the Destiny Deoxys movie. I thought that they were just a quick gag background character due to how excited they were getting on the train when people were leaving the city, but I'm also not that familiar with a lot of the Weekly Pokemon Broadcasting hosts. That's pretty cool that she came out as trans though.

 

[Galactic_V]

Okay, I rewatched Harley's debut episode and it's just like ii kanji said, his speaking pattern strongly implies he's a LGBT character. Other than the あたし she pointed out, I noticed he ended some of his phrases with わ and かしら, which are known to be really girly. But I stand by my opinion above, it's yet another example of an overly stereotyped LGBT character, sadly, which makes him more of a gag tbh.

There're certain bits I found funny though, like how his berserk button activated when Haruka complimented his cookies but added her かも catchphrase at the end of her line (which sort of implies uncertainty) and then he kept repeating it just to annoy her lol

 

[swiftgallade46]

The problem I have with Harley is that he is the first and so far the only gay-coded recurring character to-date (other than maybe Burgh or Wallace but they didn’t appear much) and yet he is characterized as villainous and sneaky. He’s kind of a stereotype of a gay man trying to sabotage the pretty girl.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

People could say "well, it's a kids' show",

This cannot be an argument anymore since they’ve literally implied a straight pairing kiss (Ash and Serena in XY).

so the most they would do is rely on subtlety and simply SHOWING LGBTQ+ characters rather than addressing it. But I'm not entirely sure how they would do that either-unless, perhaps, they would introduce a CotD or side character or main character who is shown to have a crush on someone of the same sex. I've personally never liked romance but I would say that works since they've done such episodes in the past.

For instance: Is just showing one character who is implied to be gay enough representation?

I think it’s a good start, at the very least. A random, neutrally drawn person just simply habing a crush or blushing around the same gender, or even handholding would be a really good start.

Speaking of Dogasu, he has posted a couple of tweets about canonically (albeit that info is not obvious in the show itself) LGBTQ+ characters recently:

Coming to this, I hate that all gay "representation" so far has been sick gags that perpetuate the stereotype that "gay man feminine". Feminine gay men exist, but not every man who’s gay/bi wears egg image feminine (I have a knack for weird autocorrect) dresses or acts so.

 

[ii kanji]

The problem I have with Harley is that he is the first and so far the only gay-coded recurring character to-date (other than maybe Burgh or Wallace but they didn’t appear much) and yet he is characterized as villainous and sneaky. He’s kind of a stereotype of a gay man trying to sabotage the pretty girl.

100% agree with this. Don’t get me wrong, he is a very watchable character and I love him from the POV that he made Haruka’s contest shenanigans much more interesting, but as LGBTQ+ representation it is supremely suboptimal. It doesn’t help that for all his petty villainy he didn’t get much in the way of a sympathetic backstory or ever get to show another side to his character (or at least not prominently enough for me to remember lol ), so he remains a caricature.

I actually wonder if (at least some part of) the production intends for Go to be an LGBTQ+ character. That whole hoo-hah about his ‘androgynous’ looks, plus his interactions with Satoshi and his childhood friend whose name I forget, AND the total absence of any shipping subplot with Koharu (it would have been sooo easy) have definitely raised the question in my mind… Of course it remains to be seen if they’ll actually do anything with him on a romantic front since he’s only 10 but there’s scope there especially given that he is in certain ways more mature than Satoshi. Being a co-protag who is so fully fleshed out and who doesn’t just exist to be a stereotype gives him the potential to be amazing rep!

 

[Hidden Mew]

I'm kind of surprised that Harley's Japanese speaking pattern implies that he is gay-coded. I remember there was some discussion over whether or not Harley was supposed to be gay during and a bit after AG, but I thought that was primarily due to the dub. From what I remember, the dub definitely made him sound more flamboyant, especially during the Battle Frontier season, so I just assumed that it was a dub addition.

If he was supposed to be gay-coded, then that does make the decision to make him a more villainous rival more problematic. Granted, I think that they kind of went too far with his gag anyway. His constant attempts to cheat in order to defeat May does make Harley stand out among most other rivals and I thought he was entertaining when I first watched AG, but the concept of a liar frequently attempt to pretend to be May's friend just doesn't sit right with me. Even though he wasn't really rewarded for that kind of behavior, seeing him be so manipulative and cruel for really pathetic reasons just made Harley way too unlikable for my tastes when I rewatched the later AG seasons for the first time years ago. Knowing that he was most likely gay-coded based on his Japanese speech patterns just makes the decision more questionable in retrospect.