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SPECULATION: Limits!?

Kakea

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I haven't played many Pokemon games aside from: Pokemon Yellow, Black, Black2, White and Gold (In that order, lol!) And I noticed something from playing them and finding out the evil truth online: All pokemon received heavy limits on them around Gen3!?!!!! It destroyed the series for me, and while I'm curious about seeing the new games, I'm not as excited to play as I am with the "limitless" Gen1 and 2. How do you deal with your favorite Pokemon being forced to be weak? You CAN'T take your team to the Pokemon league because no matter if you train them to lv100 or buy 1000s of revives, they WON'T feasibly get through(unless you use a "Tank" Pokemon, like I was forced to do on Black and White, seriously I'm comparing this to when I just recently finished Gold with my favorites from Kanto and Johto! :D ) How does it feel to be limited? I know they have EV IV training, but they'll break the necessary limits to be Pokemon you can take everywhere with you!

(If you've done this with your favorites or DON'T care: Congratulations or If you somehow have no attachment to a game your playing: leave...)
 

BigBadButterfree

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I'm not sure I entirely understand your issue here. Yes, there is evidence that every generation seems to introduce new Pokémon that are inherently stronger than many, but I don't think it's as bad as you are making it out to be. I mean, unless all your favorites are NFE Pokémon, or like all bug/flying, I think any Pokémon can somehow be useful for the main story of any game.

Aside from that, there are plenty of Pokémon in gen I and II that could be considered too weak to beat the league, but any one Pokémon will obviously have its own weaknesses that one of its teammates should be able to cover. And as for EV training, I've never even done that for the main story of any game, and I've been just fine every time. Yes, some games give you a bigger challenge than others, like Platium Cynthia, but she is by no means unbeatable.
 

Stratelier

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When I play a Pokemon game, a Pokemon only stays on the team if (1) I enjoy having it on team, or (2) feel its presence is otherwise necessary. The majority of my team consists of the former category (and often natives to the region in question).
 

TechSkylander1518

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because no matter if you train them to lv100 or buy 1000s of revives, they WON'T feasibly get through
The Elite Four's Pokemon are usually in the 70-80 range. If you had a team of level 100s, they'd get through it just fine.
All pokemon received heavy limits on them around Gen3!?!!!!
I don't understand what limits you're talking about here. Every change in Gen 3 allowed Pokemon to become stronger, not weaker. Gen 3's only changes to battles were the following:
  • Abilities were introduced. Some Pokemon might have gotten the short end of the stick with abilities, but the only abilities that put a limit on Pokemon are Truant and Slow Start, and they're signature abilities.
  • Natures were introduced. Again, you might get unlucky with some Pokemon's natures, but every nature boosts a stat in addition to lowering another, save for the neutral natures.
  • The IV and EV system were altered. I want to emphasize here-altered, not introduced. This system was already in place in Gens 1 and 2, and this change benefited Pokemon. (Example-in the old system, female Pokemon couldn't have the maximum possible Attack stat)
I know they have EV IV training, but they'll break the necessary limits to be Pokemon you can take everywhere with you!
It was already impossible to take your Pokemon everywhere with you. If you have more than six favorites, you have to put some in the PC. If your favorites don't have enough HM moves between them, you have to get a new Pokemon.

And I don't really get the problem with limits regarding EV/IV training. It's accessible for all Pokemon.
 

Kakea

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It was already impossible to take your Pokemon everywhere with you. If you have more than six favorites, you have to put some in the PC. If your favorites don't have enough HM moves between them, you have to get a new Pokemon.

And I don't really get the problem with limits regarding EV/IV training. It's accessible for all Pokemon.
Let me explain: In Gold, I chose ONLY Pokemon I wanted to beat the league with: NO legends, nor were they lv70...
They were maybe 50 and under... I decided to "TEST" the league and see what levels I need to beat it... but MISTAKINGLY beat it! :D


Cut to before, (sounds confusing, since I played this before Gold....) In Black, Black2 and White: I'd go to the league with my Pokemon at higher levels thanks to the ability to CONSISTENTLY train against other trainers (opposed to Gold's random calls to rebattle) and still needed 100s of revives to push through it! Later, I learned/ was forced to bring a legendary Pokemon to back everybody else up.... I could NEVER use only Pokemon I liked thanks to the revamped EV\IV set:

THIS IS WHAT I READ TRYING TO BREED STRONGER POKEMON....

EVs in older games
The EV system was completely overhauled in Generation 3 (Ruby/Sapphire). Prior to that, battling a Pokémon would give you Effort Values equal to its stats. For example, Dragonite would give 91 EVs in HP, 134 in Attack and so on.

You could gain up to 65536 EVs in every stat (HP, Attack, Defense, Special and Speed), so you didn't even need to consciously EV train - you'd normally gain all EVs by the time you reach level 100.



Upon finding this out, I had very investing surprises: the first was the realization of the caps set by Nature and Personalities they set. I breeder a Pikachu in Black to remind me of Pokemon Yellow, in which he (bless it's soul) was able to one hit EVERY type (except ground types, obviously) with Thunder or Slam! I trained my Black/Black2 Pikachu to lv100! Surely I can do ANYTHING I want!(?) The poor thing could BARELY fight lower leveled Pokemon... Thunder no longer one hits others and it took GREAT effort to beat just Pokemon on anyone's team with this Pikachu... Cut to current day: My Johto Pikachu can one hit everyone, though his movement's different: He can use Return rather than Slam like the others... Still, he's beating entire teams smoothly like the Kant:bulbaWave:1stgen Pokemon! The difference is TOO great: Nintendo has capped the poor monsters, you really can't take your favorites if they're not what Nintendo wanted to be strong and it's not possible to use them in POST GAME, as they're too weak. I had no trouble before, byte post game Pokemon are way too strong fir favorites, if they're not legends or "rare" , they must be either to train properly, or you'll need a "tank" to help. Meanwhile, every p\pokemon I've raised in Kanto and Johto are capable of handling themselves
 

SpikOriundo

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It wasn't the EV revamp that made this happen; it was the AI and Special/Physical split, I'd say.
Pokémon before maybe could defeat anything.
But, did you know that Lance's Dragonite, on the RBGY would use Agility, a Psychic-type move, against Fighting and Poison types? That happens because Psychic is stronger against those types, but the AI didn't figure out that it's a status move that raises Speed, not an attacking move.
Nowadays the AI understand what is what, and sometime will even predict your next move and switch out, like switch out the Electric type that is out on the field for one with Levitate or a Flying-type, if you previously used Earthquake.
Not only that, the Special/Physical split happened, where now the stat used is decided by the move itself, not the type of the move. Example, not all Electric types are Special. This is what made some Pokémon weird to use, for lack of moves that uses a certain type of attacking stat.
 

TechSkylander1518

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Later, I learned/ was forced to bring a legendary Pokemon to back everybody else up
You're not at all required to use a legendary. Here's an example of someone who went through the Elite Four just fine without one.
.... I could NEVER use only Pokemon I liked thanks to the revamped EV\IV set:
What on earth do EVs and IVs have to do with legendaries? Legendaries follow the EV/IV system just the same as everyone else. They're not guaranteed perfect IVs, either-they can have awful stats.

THIS IS WHAT I READ TRYING TO BREED STRONGER POKEMON....

EVs in older games
Well, there's part of your problem. You don't get EVs by breeding.
The EV system was completely overhauled in Generation 3 (Ruby/Sapphire). Prior to that, battling a Pokémon would give you Effort Values equal to its stats. For example, Dragonite would give 91 EVs in HP, 134 in Attack and so on.
And nowadays, you receive smaller EVs for battling Pokemon, which are often based on its highest stat. This change doesn't affect how strong a Pokemon can get, it just simplifies the calculation.
You could gain up to 65536 EVs in every stat (HP, Attack, Defense, Special and Speed), so you didn't even need to consciously EV train - you'd normally gain all EVs by the time you reach level 100.
You still gain EVs through normal gameplay. EV training now is about getting EVs in specific stats.
Upon finding this out, I had very investing surprises: the first was the realization of the caps set by Nature and Personalities they set.
As I said before:
every nature boosts a stat in addition to lowering another, save for the neutral natures.
And, given that you used both Thunder (a special move) and Slam (a physical move), I find it hard to believe that Nature was the cause. Only one of its stats could be lowered by its nature.
Pokemon Yellow, in which he (bless it's soul) was able to one hit EVERY type (except ground types, obviously) with Thunder or Slam!
a) In Pokemon Yellow, there was just the Special stat, as opposed to the Special Attack and Special Defense stats. Since the split, some Pokemon intended to be more defense-oriented received higher Special Defenses than their Special stat in Gen 1.
b) Between Pokemon Yellow and Pokemon Black, there were 498 Pokemon added. Surely that would make a difference?
c) If your entire strategy is to one-shot opponents, that's probably part of why you struggled so much with the BW Elite Four. As SpikOriundo said, the AI's improved since then-you're supposed to have a bit of strategy, not just use brute force.
The poor thing could BARELY fight lower leveled Pokemon... Thunder no longer one hits others
Not being able to one-shot =/= being a bad fighter.
The difference is TOO great: Nintendo has capped the poor monsters,
You've assumed that this is the case, and you haven't even bothered to look at any of the other possibilities. You haven't told us what Pokemon you've fought against, what your Pikachus' stats are, or what your Unova Pikachu's Nature is. You just jumped right to this conclusion.
 
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Stratelier

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Also, if you're relying on a single Pikachu like a certain anime protagonist was known for, you have bigger problems anyway because Pikachu isn't even its final form. It may be unfortunate to certain of your favorite Pokemon, but some species simply have stronger stats than others, and when you're facing the Elite 4, they all have teams assembled from generally high-stat, fully-evolved Pokemon. If you want to beat them with an equal-levelled team, you'd better bring (1) Pokemon with fully evolved stats who can stand against them fairly, or (2) techniques that can nerf whatever strengths the opponent wants to use and make up for poorer stats.

For example, in Sun I had an Oricorio (yellow) on the team basically permanently. It didn't actually have that many options for attacking, but between Teeter Dance, Feather Dance and Roost there were relatively few opponents capable of taking this bird down, let alone threatening anyone else once Oricorio was through stalling and nerfing them.
 
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