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Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long die-h

boop

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

Whaaaaaat??!

Don't be misled. Money is great, but I doubt those working on the games let that guide their methods. That's something the big-wigs on the level of major game corporations do (I.E. the people heading companies like Activision and E.A.). Any game creator, designer, what-have-you will tell you that the passion is in creating the game. For Pokemon, money is certainly the clincher that -enables- them to continuously make the games, but dollars to donuts that's not why they stay in the business.

Why are there so many legends? I'll tell you my simple assumption. It's because of great ideas. Lots of times in game development (early game development), you run up against constraints. Ideas come and go all the time. They're constantly being fed into the thinktank and get thrown out just as quickly. My guess is that Game Freak, when designing each new iteration, wants to include as many cool and fun ideas as possible. Because of time, money, and other such things, they can't keep 'em all, but definitely try to keep as many as they feasibly can in.
Yeah. But then Nintendo has to allow them to do it. Regardless of how much passion is put into the games, the reason those ideas see the light of day is because Nintendo/Game Freak thinks they are marketable.
 

Snicker1

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

If you think about it, they can go backwards. HG/SS had Ho-oh and Lugia and it came after arceus in pokemon series time and real time. And Arceus' description isn't God pokemon, and is based off of Japaneese beliefs, and is not necessarily GOD. Mew is a good example, and almost seems like how scientists like darwin found how we came from monkeys, which is he belief of scientists. I would like to see at least one game in the future involving debates between different religions of pokemon creation stories, which could make Pokemon a much more real franchise. Depending what Issu is based off of, like America or Europe, thay could totally change it up, starting all over and having new pokeymon creating even the land sea and sky. I think the idea of mythology too, and I think after having explored all of the world, they could even go back in time like they breifly did in the Arceus movie, and do Greek gods. The series has a lot more room to explore and has so far only catered to older Japanese beliefs mostly, so they might get to generation XII.:dizzy:
Actually, HG/SS were remakes of games that already occured in Gen. 2. Sorry for pointing that out.

Anyways, I agree that they should open up and do myths/legends outside of Japan. There is just so much potential with all of the rest of the worlds beliefs and myths. I would really like to see some European myths, as many of them are quite interesting.
 

Taromon777

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

I don't think Reshiram and Zekrom are meant to be "above" Arceus. Pokemon don't have to stick 100% to the original legends on which they are based. I think Reshiram and Zekrom are only meant to be as "important" as Dialga and Palkia. I like them, I had been hoping for a yin and yang legendary duo.

I'm not really too worried about the legendaries becoming more "godlike"; in addition to legendaries like these in recent generations there have also been other "lesser" legendaries like Manaphy and the Regis, which don't appear to have had any influence on the creation of the universe. And as far as we know, Victini isn't an omnipotent interdimensional supergod who created Arceus, so there's still hope...
 

Eldritch_One

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

Some grand Pan-dimentional Uber God?

Look out, here comes an Azathoth based Pokemon.

Lovecraftian Poke FTW, By the way. MEZOTHOTH, CREATOR OF THE POKEMON MULTIVERSE. xD

I'm drawing this. I'm so drawing this.
 

*Jirachi*

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

Well, I don`t know about you guys, but I never thought that Arceus is the Original One in the whole Pokémon World.
It`s just Sinnoh`s own myth. It is part of Sinnoh`s mytology and creating history.
Just like we have different creating myths in different parts of the World, I can`t see why Pokémon World wouldn`t have many different ones as well.

As I said, Arceus is only attached into Sinnoh`s history. It doesn`t have anything to do with other parts of the Pokémon World.
 

Kamex

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

Well, I don`t know about you guys, but I never thought that Arceus is the Original One in the whole Pokémon World.
It`s just Sinnoh`s own myth. It is part of Sinnoh`s mytology and creating history.
Just like we have different creating myths in different parts of the World, I can`t see why Pokémon World wouldn`t have many different ones as well.

As I said, Arceus is only attached into Sinnoh`s history. It doesn`t have anything to do with other parts of the Pokémon World.
You're right. As far as we know, there could be 5 more regions in the future, and each will have its own myths, legends and history.

A bit OT: Arceus is overrated, anyway. I never really took a liking to him. Why, you ask? Well, for one thing, his design doesn't really fit the whole creator thing. I mean, it could be a lot better. Besides, he could be the creator of the entire universe for what I care, but that still woudn't make him any more important than other (legendary) Pokémon. There will be more and each of them is unique in its own way.
 

SnorlaxMonster

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

Mew is a good example, and almost seems like how scientists like darwin found how we came from monkeys, which is he belief of scientists.
Darwin did not find that people came from monkeys, but that humans and monkeys share a common ancestor.

I would like to see at least one game in the future involving debates between different religions of pokemon creation stories, which could make Pokemon a much more real franchise.
This would not get passed the censors, unless it was extremely lowered down. And even then, religious groups would almost certainly complain.

Depending what Issu is based off of, like America or Europe, thay could totally change it up, starting all over and having new pokeymon creating even the land sea and sky.
From the way you phrased it I can't tell if you already knew, but Kyogre, Groudon and Rayquazza did this. Also, the two main Isshu speculated locations are America and China (currently).

I think the idea of mythology too, and I think after having explored all of the world, they could even go back in time like they breifly did in the Arceus movie, and do Greek gods. The series has a lot more room to explore and has so far only catered to older Japanese beliefs mostly, so they might get to generation XII.:dizzy:
A Japanese game is more likely to stick to Japanese mythology, but Greek and Egyptian mythology would be interesting.
 

Cosmic Power

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

It reminds me of this story:

*A well-known scientist (some say it was Bertrand Russell) once gave a public lecture on astronomy. He described how the earth orbits around the sun and how the sun, in turn, orbits around the center of a vast collection of stars called our galaxy. At the end of the lecture, a little old lady at the back of the room got up and said: "What you have told us is rubbish. The world is really a flat plate supported on the back of a giant tortoise." The scientist gave a superior smile before replying, "What is the tortoise standing on?" "You're very clever, young man, very clever", said the old lady. "But it's turtles all the way down!"*

I hope that game freak doesn't keep making legendaries to support the previous ones. What comes next? Mothra?

*it's from wikipedia. But it is a well know story :D
 

Seress

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

I believe that gen VI's legendaries should be based off of the aztecs!
 

WallflowerCanyon

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

Very interesting indeed... I'm willing to accept it if Reshiram and Zekrom are supposed to surpass Arceus, I couldn't care less what happened. Honestly though, what's the big deal if they did? Some of you act like it's the sign of Armaggedon or somethin' like that.:-/ If anything, it would just mean that they can open much bigger cans of whoop-ass.

It's really interesting how they made comparisons to the Chinese mythology when talking about Arceus, Reshiram, and Zekrom. That was something that had never crossed my mind, and it actually kinda makes sense that Reshiram and Zekrom might be above Arceus since they represent Yin and Yang... but this is providing if it all really is based on Chinese mythology though. Regardless, still really interesting.

If Reshiram and Zekrom really are supposed to be above Arceus, then that could only mean one thing.... looks like Cyrus got his ass one-upped by some foo' with green Bishi-hair, beings it would make Dialga and Palkia small-fry compared to the Isshu Legendaries.:lol:
 

Zeta

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

I really don't think the BW Legendaries are intended to be "above" Arceus, nor do I think they or any future legendary needs to be to be interesting.
 

WallflowerCanyon

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

I really don't think the BW Legendaries are intended to be "above" Arceus, nor do I think they or any future legendary needs to be to be interesting.
I'm not saying that Legendaries who make it past Arceus are gonna suck... I don't even try catching the buggers nowadays. It's just the overall mythology 'n stuff that they've been implementing in these games is what's interesting to me. Regardless if Reshiram and Zekrom are above or below Arceus, I still think they're pretty awesome.
 

CypherFDP

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

What would be beyond God?

Easy.

Super-God.

EDIT: No wait, Super-Mecha-God.
 

Giratina!

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

A thought that came to me while reading this: just because the bases of these three Pokémon - Zekrom, Reshiram, and Arceus - were all intertangled in an egg-making thing of beauty doesn't mean that the Pokémon themselves need to be. For all we know, these two could just be the Balance of good and evil that we've all been trying to attribute to Cresselia and Darkrai or Arceus and (shudder) Giratina since around 2007, and legions of Fakemon before that. They could be the creations of Arceus/Mew/Chuck Norris/whatever deity you believe created the Pokémon world in-game, just like all the other Legendaries were.

Of course, it would be a nice nod to whoever knows the cultural origins of Arceus to make Zekrom and Reshiram the creators of Arceus... but to be entirely honest with you, the best understanding I could get of Arceus' background was to play around with the whole Holy Lamb thing that Jesus had going on. And even that was unlikely. Maybe it's a horse-thing because horsies are majestic. Maybe it's a llama-thing because llamas are awesome.
 

GodofPH

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

By the way, I apologize for the typos. I don't have editing privileges yet on Bulbanews, so I can't fix them. Sorry guys!
 

Articwolf10

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

I higly dount they are above Arceus... I personally think they are connected with the Dragon Trio...

Reshiram can represent Daytime Fire and Nature While Zekrom represents INight Lightning and Invention MAny God's in mythology represent several things after all
 

xjoedirtx

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

Personally, I hope that Reshiram and Zekrom aren't put above Arceus. That wouldn't really make sense, seeing as how Arceus is supposed to be the creator of the entire universe, and all. Then again, as they said in the article, Pokemon is meant to be mindless entertainment, and its meant to be viewed in terms of how fun it is, not the overall storyline(or lack thereof).
 

Some_Gamer_Dude

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

My opinions on this subject:
The Pokedex is NOT fact. I really wish someone would do an article about this as I have in the past, it continuously uses 'Myth, Legends, It is said' and other vague wishy washy wording, including Arceus and Mew.

Pokemon has become more absurd the more it distances itself with science and it is painting itself into a corner, which it already has. Arceus was that corner. Reshi and Zeky are just retcons to that corner and do nothing but make it worse.

Pokemon needs to make it a tad more obvious these claims are myths, and depower the legendaries in story(But not battle). Ho-Oh's resurrection of the Beasts was the first step onto the slippery slop we've been on and are still on. In other words, GF needs to start making it more obvious these are myths and legends with a real animal behind them, not truth. The more truth the more absurd it gets.
 

MoonlitxShadow

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

i had origionally posted this on the discussion page but i think its better suited here.

first of all i will agree that Pokemon is a game of "mindless" entertainment in so far as the player isnt driven to play by some deep and complicated back story. most players are driven by the adventure aspect of catching, training, and winning battles. there not much to think of. but maybe mindless is too harsh i tend to think "simple" would make a better analogy. but i digress.

the legendaries have been a topic of much dismay for me. i dont really use them...ever. i only ever catch them for the pokedex. but none the less i still like them as part of the games. i will concede that post generation III legendaries are kind of over stretching their reach in terms of what the are chosen to represent. the first two generations of legends were chosen to represent specific elemental natures. GenI: fire, electricity, ice. genII: fire, electricity, water. but then genIII complicates it a little with the earth, ocean, and sky imagery. but the genIV in my opinion are more complicated then genV. yin and yang, light and dark, good and evil, are a little more widely understood then the more philosophical concepts of physics that the genIV represent with the time, space, and void triumvirate. GenIV had an astounding 14 legendaries to itself which is way to many!!! granted i am quite partial to Darkrai but that doesnt forgive the humongous over saturation. the psychic trio, physics trio, moon duo, regigigas, manaphy, phione, heatran, shaymin and not to mention the all powerful arceus.....will genV have even more? we already know of three...

in terms of designs the first two generations are my favorite. with special provision for darkrai. but a case can be argued that darkrai fits into the simple design definition of the first two generations. these new generations are getting more and more complex. the weather trio were way more complicated than the first two gens and he dragon trio beats them out. however, the series seems to be looking for redemption in the yin yang duo. i consider their design many times simpler than that of the dragon trio. but thats just my opinion.

in respects to the anime: i consider it one of the simplest and least thought provoking animes i have ever seen. if you want a thought provoking anime look for the likes of FullMetal Alchemist, Eureka Seven, Neon Genesis Evengaleon, Code Geass or Deathnote. you can argue for your saturday morning educational words of wisdom all you want but it is a lost cause. im not saying that it isnt entertaining as a whole...it just isnt very deep.
 

FatKidLovesCoke

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Re: Looking Forward: The Stuff of Legends: Outlook and speculation from a life long d

i had origionally posted this on the discussion page but i think its better suited here.

first of all i will agree that Pokemon is a game of "mindless" entertainment in so far as the player isnt driven to play by some deep and complicated back story. most players are driven by the adventure aspect of catching, training, and winning battles. there not much to think of. but maybe mindless is too harsh i tend to think "simple" would make a better analogy. but i digress.

the legendaries have been a topic of much dismay for me. i dont really use them...ever. i only ever catch them for the pokedex. but none the less i still like them as part of the games. i will concede that post generation III legendaries are kind of over stretching their reach in terms of what the are chosen to represent. the first two generations of legends were chosen to represent specific elemental natures. GenI: fire, electricity, ice. genII: fire, electricity, water. but then genIII complicates it a little with the earth, ocean, and sky imagery. but the genIV in my opinion are more complicated then genV. yin and yang, light and dark, good and evil, are a little more widely understood then the more philosophical concepts of physics that the genIV represent with the time, space, and void triumvirate. GenIV had an astounding 14 legendaries to itself which is way to many!!! granted i am quite partial to Darkrai but that doesnt forgive the humongous over saturation. the psychic trio, physics trio, moon duo, regigigas, manaphy, phione, heatran, shaymin and not to mention the all powerful arceus.....will genV have even more? we already know of three...

in terms of designs the first two generations are my favorite. with special provision for darkrai. but a case can be argued that darkrai fits into the simple design definition of the first two generations. these new generations are getting more and more complex. the weather trio were way more complicated than the first two gens and he dragon trio beats them out. however, the series seems to be looking for redemption in the yin yang duo. i consider their design many times simpler than that of the dragon trio. but thats just my opinion.

in respects to the anime: i consider it one of the simplest and least thought provoking animes i have ever seen. if you want a thought provoking anime look for the likes of FullMetal Alchemist, Eureka Seven, Neon Genesis Evengaleon, Code Geass or Deathnote. you can argue for your saturday morning educational words of wisdom all you want but it is a lost cause. im not saying that it isnt entertaining as a whole...it just isnt very deep.
how does this relate to the topic because personally, i think you wasted typing that :-/
 
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