Mafia Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 31st -- Endgame -- Mafia Victory!

[Almonds]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Personally, I think both are town.

1. Beck claimed a town-aligned-mafia-role after the Town Godfather died.

EDIT: I accidentally pressed 'post' (I'm on mobile currently)

2. Forgotten cc'd Beck.

What they both did are actions that would most likely get them lynched. I don't think Beck or Forgotten would have outed like that when it would only direct attention on themselves and thus only lead to either of them getting lynched.

 

[Doctor Floptopus]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Hmm. I have been reading through the posts, and I'm more convinced that beck is lying. This is because of the "second role" he mentioned. I have no second role. I have a suspicion that he's implying he has a bomb like element in his role to make people afraid of voting him and so I'm going to
Unvote: forgotten
Vote: beck
What do people think about the possibility of a granny? @Phoenicks; I looked at the vote chart and my name isn't on there as someone you can vote for, and I count 22 votes. Including gliscorman, there should only be 21. Have you left my predecessor's vote in there?
Edit: I just checked again, I replaced Parma, but he is still on the vote list and his vote has been counted.
Edit 2: if there is a townie rolecop and one of them is lynched, it would make sense to check the other tonight before jumping to conclusions. Does everyone else agree with this?

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Hmm. I have been reading through the posts, and I'm more convinced that beck is lying. This is because of the "second role" he mentioned. I have no second role. I have a suspicion that he's implying he has a bomb like element in his role to make people afraid of voting him and so I'm going to
Unvote: forgotten
Vote: beck
What do people think about the possibility of a granny? @Phoenicks; I looked at the vote chart and my name isn't on there as someone you can vote for, and I count 22 votes. Including gliscorman, there should only be 21. Have you left my predecessor's vote in there?
Edit: I just checked again, I replaced Parma, but he is still on the vote list and his vote has been counted.
Edit 2: if there is a townie rolecop and one of them is lynched, it would make sense to check the other tonight before jumping to conclusions. Does everyone else agree with this?

That would be useless since there isn't so much doubt that both check as strongman, but rather that one is a mafia strongman.

 

[HumanDawn]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

I want to know what kind of ability would make time pass like that. I could see if Dialga, Doctor Who, or some other time-traveller were in play, but they aren't and I can't think of anyone in Middle-Earth who's shown signs of being a time-traveller, save a certain wizard who'd be Townie, but that's even a stretch.

Could you please say who the wizard is?

Regarding the role it sounds... really pointless? I don't know what it would change and I don't see how it benefits either alignment in it being used.

Honestly, the longer I look at this whole strongman issue, the longer I'm believing that they're both telling the truth. The fact that it's confirmed already that some players will investigate a different role than what they actually might be seems to be a clear sign that Phoenicks doesn't want scumhunting to just be based on roles. I can very very VERY easily see him placing two players with different roles that investigate as the same title to mix things up. I was only seeing this as a slight possibility earlier, but I'm honestly not getting any significant scumtells from either Beck nor Forgotten and I'm finding it more and more difficult to reconcile their roles being mutually exclusive.

Okay, if you think there are two same miller roles that are aligned with the Town that would most likely cause two Town mislynches and be very generous to the Mafia, could you also say that if one of them were Mafia, who do you think is most likely lying?

I'm not letting a no-lynch on one of us happen. If it comes down to it I'll vote myself.

A bit less than 24 hours were left when you posted this, just because it was a tie then it doesn't mean it will stay a tie.

 

[Doctor Floptopus]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

That would be useless since there isn't so much doubt that both check as strongman, but rather that one is a mafia strongman.

Fair point. If there's a normal cop, though, (probably) it would be worth their while to check. I just thought that if one of them was lying then they may be lying wholly, not just about their allignment.

 

[Midorikawa]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

That would be useless since there isn't so much doubt that both check as strongman, but rather that one is a mafia strongman.

Fair point. If there's a normal cop, though, (probably) it would be worth their while to check. I just thought that if one of them was lying then they may be lying wholly, not just about their allignment.

If one is mafia then they are probably also godfather. I doubt either would risk outing themselves with such a risk as cop if they weren't sure they couldn't get caught by some kind of cop.

 

[GastlyGibus]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

I'm running for work in about ten minutes. I apologize if this seems rushed.

In what way is this desperate? More specifically, the latter most part of the post, where I confront his vote against UM. And my vote was desperate, but yours against me? You even just said that you "had no better target at the moment." How is that any less desperate?

If I'm understanding this right, you're basically jumping on Soulmaster for what you perceived to be him shifting the attention to an lesser active player, playing "passive-aggressively" (wut?), and being "indecisive." Wow, someone indecisive on day one. Whodathunkit?

Also, you'll notice the key part of my phrase. "No better target at the moment." As in, at that particular point in time. As the posts progressed, it seemed to me like you were growing more and more desperate for reasons to keep your vote on Soulmaster, even amongst your public expressions of doubt.

But you're correct. I'm not denying the fact that I didn't know. I didn't 100% believe that he was Mafia, but I did believe that he was our best option under the circumstance. Call me guilty for my playstyle, but it's always better to lynch on Day One, and yesterday was no different. Soulmaster was the sacrificial lamb, as far as I'm concerned. Nothing personal, obviously, but if we hadn't lynched then yesterday would have effectively been a waste. I picked the lesser of two evils.

I fail to see how he was our best option. Obviously, our best option would be mafia, and I would try to form a stronger case for someone before lynching them. Certainly stronger than the one you had made.

It would. And if anyone had a better option, I would have considered changing my vote. But nobody did.

So you have to wait for others to do the work for you? Why couldn't you have branched out on your own and analyzed the posts that had been made to come to a better conclusion? Why do you have to wait for someone else to make a case?

Anyway. Yes, I agree that the post was a bit late to be effective, but better late than never, right? I never want to intentionally lynch an innocent, but I (and MasterMew) gave every opportunity for others to change our minds. I mean, even you had the chance, but you were nowhere to be found. You can't not provide us an ultimatum and then argue that we were acting vindictively. It's not fair.

I already mentioned I didn't have time. Had I the time to make a more structured argument, I would have certainly done so. I don't know what else you want me to say on that matter.

And no, it's not "better late than never." Your post at the end of that phase was effectively useless. Nobody could have possibly created an argument in so short a time frame.

Because it doesn't (or at least, shouldn't) matter.

Actually, it does matter. Quite a bit, because unless there's some kind of mafia doctor or you have a vigilante shot or something, I don't see how a Strongman would be of any use to the town. I can easily claim something silly like, I don't know, let's say Commuter. If I don't specify what exactly my ability does, it's quite pointless to claim, isn't it?

My vote stays. I agree with Gliscorman in that one of you two has to be lying, and your behavior has been far more shady than Forgotten's

 

[GliscorMan]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

To everyone reading this, I am still in the process of gathering claims. However, Beck has claimed in full to me, and some things are starting to click. I have privately asked him a question, and as soon as he gets back to me I will give my verdict on which strongman is telling the truth. Hopefully, my information-gathering and analysis skills will prove to be effective.

Until then, it is not at all beneficial to rush the conclusions here. We cannot afford to make rash decisions. As the venerable Treebeard once said: "Let's not be hasty".

 

[Hippowdon]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

I'd like to share my own thoughts on the "I will not tell lies" situation this doesn't even make sense to me but I think that is a lie in its self (or phoenicks didn't think that through well, not what I think) but feel like he has lied to me a few times already (with the roles and such) I'm not trying to bash phoenicks but it makes absolutely no sense to me.

 

[Neonsands]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

If one is mafia then they are probably also godfather. I doubt either would risk outing themselves with such a risk as cop if they weren't sure they couldn't get caught by some kind of cop.

See, but the thing about them both claiming that, is that they both would have to show up as mafia, no? Like, there would be no reason to claim miller if you aren't going to show up as mafia on being checked.

 

[Beck]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

If one is mafia then they are probably also godfather. I doubt either would risk outing themselves with such a risk as cop if they weren't sure they couldn't get caught by some kind of cop.

See, but the thing about them both claiming that, is that they both would have to show up as mafia, no? Like, there would be no reason to claim miller if you aren't going to show up as mafia on being checked.

If a Rolecop investigates us, we'll show up as Strongman. If a regular Cop invesitgates us, we'll show up as Town.

 

[GliscorMan]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Unvote: GliscorMan
Vote: Forgotten

In the light of Beck's claim, and his answer to my question, I cast my vote. Note that I did not receive the answer I was hoping for, however the answer he did give brought up some new avenues for research. It appears that, regardless of which of the two is lynched, and regardless of what alignment is revealed, there will be someone confirmed through this lynch.

I believe that the most beneficial course of action, in this case, is to lynch Forgotten. This is by no means a perfect solution, but I believe it to be the one that is most likely to yield a member of the Mafia.

 

[Life]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

I hate to do this, but I'm going to tie the votes again and
Unvote: Life
Vote: Beck

As I have stated previously, I think they're both town. While I do not want to go with a no lynch, I would rather see Beck lynched than Forgotten as I feel like the likelihood of Beck being scum is higher. There is no reason why Forgotten would have counter-claimed Beck and brought all this attention on themself knowing that people would suspect them of being mafia. While, yes, this may be what Forgotten was going for, trying to get people like me to believe such, I really don't think that's the case here.

If it comes down to it, I will retract my vote only because I would rather have us lynch Forgotten than go into a no lynch, but I vote in hopes that someone who has yet to vote will share the same opinion as me.

That said, there are still several people who yet to share their opinion or vote. I would appreciate it a lot if you all could give us some aid on this matter before we get any further.

edit: okay whoops didn't see the vote change. I'm still keeping my vote, though.

 

[Beck]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

As I have stated previously, I think they're both town. While I do not want to go with a no lynch, I would rather see Beck lynched than Forgotten as I feel like the likelihood of Beck being scum is higher. There is no reason why Forgotten would have counter-claimed Beck and brought all this attention on themself knowing that people would suspect them of being mafia. While, yes, this may be what Forgotten was going for, trying to get people like me to believe such, I really don't think that's the case here.

If you think we're both Town, then why are you voting for either of us? If you think we're both Town, then why would either of us be more likely to be Mafia than the other? The longer this game plays out, the more inclined I am to think that the role Forgotten and I might share is the equivalent of a Vanilla Townie in another game. The vibe that I'm getting from everyone else is that they have similar roles.

This is what's so frustrating. I claimed well before Forgotten. Well before there was even the threat of having to massclaim. I claimed on Night One, when I had little reason to. I claimed because I thought I might save everyone some trouble. If I were guilty of anything, wouldn't it make more sense to claim after the fact I had been investigated? If I were guilty, I wouldn't have ever in my right mind claimed so soon. I thought that I was the only other Miller-like role so I felt it was in the Town's best interest to claim upfront.

GliscorMan, our only confirmed innocent, even just voted for Forgotten. Yet you're still content with voting for me?

 

[Life]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

If you think we're both Town, then why are you voting for either of us?

Simply because I would rather us lynch one of you over us not lynching at all. If we go into a no lynch the same thing will happen during the next phase and I don't want that to happen.

I would really prefer that we retract all the votes for you two and discuss someone else, but it seems we've gotten too far in now.

 

[Beck]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

If you think we're both Town, then why are you voting for either of us?

Simply because I would rather us lynch one of you over us not lynching at all. If we go into a no lynch the same thing will happen during the next phase and I don't want that to happen.

I would really prefer that we retract all the votes for you two and discuss someone else, but it seems we've gotten too far in now.

Fair enough. I can agree that one of us must be lynched, if for no other reason than it garnering the most information. What have I done, though, that makes you choose me over Forgotten?

EDIT: @Mijzelffan; & @Rabbit;, now that GM has voted, what do you think?

@Paperhorse;, @Master Mew;, @jda95;, @Crystal Onix;, @Zenax;, @Pariah;, @Neonsands;, @Kyriaki;, if you had to vote for either Forgotten or I, who would you vote for and why? If I do have to die at the end of this phase, then it is what it is. But I would appreciate your input. If I've missed anyone, please let me know and I will mention them.

 

[Life]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Fair enough. I can agree that one of us must be lynched, if for no other reason than it garnering the most information. What have I done, though, that makes you choose me over Forgotten?

You yourself have done nothing to make me choose Forgotten over you. It's just that I don't think Forgotten trying to frame you is likely at all, and I feel that if they were scum they'd be making a horrible move by trying to get us to lynch you. So for those reasons and others I have already posted, I just can't imagine Forgotten flipping mafia. And it's because I can't see Forgotten flipping mafia whatsoever, it's that 1% that I have to go off of.

The 1% lies in the chance that you are lying, and while I don't think it's likely that you are, I can't rule out the possibility. Of course, I can't rule out the possibility that Forgotten is trying to frame you, but I just can't imagine the mafia doing something that odd, so I personally rank it as >1%.

I hope this makes sense.

 

[Beck]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Fair enough. I can agree that one of us must be lynched, if for no other reason than it garnering the most information. What have I done, though, that makes you choose me over Forgotten?

You yourself have done nothing to make me choose Forgotten over you. It's just that I don't think Forgotten trying to frame you is likely at all, and I feel that if they were scum they'd be making a horrible move by trying to get us to lynch you. So for those reasons and others I have already posted, I just can't imagine Forgotten flipping mafia. And it's because I can't see Forgotten flipping mafia whatsoever, it's that 1% that I have to go off of.

The 1% lies in the chance that you are lying, and while I don't think it's likely that you are, I can't rule out the possibility. Of course, I can't rule out the possibility that Forgotten is trying to frame you, but I just can't imagine the mafia doing something that odd, so I personally rank it as >1%.

I hope this makes sense.

So it's more likely that if I were Mafia, that I would claim at the beginning of the Night Phase, completely unprompted? Knowing very well that I would be in question the following Day Phase. I was in no immediate danger, yet I outed myself. I understand that this is a confusing and difficult position, but I promise that I claimed in confidence. I honestly believed that I was the last Miller-like role.

If anyone else was in my shoes, would you have not claimed? Forgotten didn't even bother to claim, knowing very well that if he hadn't, he could have been investigated and had wasted our Cop's time. How is that at all a pro-Town move? It's always best if the Miller claims after Day One, it's absolutely in the Town's best interest.

 

[Life]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

[You yourself have done nothing to make me choose Forgotten over you. It's just that I don't think Forgotten trying to frame you is likely at all, and I feel that if they were scum they'd be making a horrible move by trying to get us to lynch you. So for those reasons and others I have already posted, I just can't imagine Forgotten flipping mafia. And it's because I can't see Forgotten flipping mafia whatsoever, it's that 1% that I have to go off of.

The 1% lies in the chance that you are lying, and while I don't think it's likely that you are, I can't rule out the possibility. Of course, I can't rule out the possibility that Forgotten is trying to frame you, but I just can't imagine the mafia doing something that odd, so I personally rank it as >1%.

I hope this makes sense.

So it's more likely that if I were Mafia, that I would claim at the beginning of the Night Phase, completely unprompted? Knowing very well that I would be in question the following Day Phase. I was in no immediate danger, yet I outed myself. I understand that this is a confusing and difficult position, but I promise that I claimed in confidence. I honestly believed that I was the last Miller-like role.

If anyone else was in my shoes, would you have not claimed? Forgotten didn't even bother to claim, knowing very well that if he hadn't, he could have been investigated and had wasted our Cop's time. How is that at all a pro-Town move? It's always best if the Miller claims after Day One, it's absolutely in the Town's best interest.

I believe you, and I honestly do not think that you are mafia. I realize that you claimed for the town's best interest, but the possibility still lies that you could be lying, and to me, that possibility has a higher percentage than Forgotten.

All I am trying to say is that the way my mind works, I see it that you have a better likely hood of flipping mafia than Forgotten.

 

[GliscorMan]

Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

@Life; There's some information that you don't have, and that's why I'm voting for Forgotten. Actually, there's some information that I don't have, and that's why I'd like you to claim to me.