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Mafia Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 31st -- Endgame -- Mafia Victory!

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URPG!
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

I'm going to make this perfectly clear. Beck does not have a secondary role. This was him coming full to claim to me. He has told me that his role is 100% identical to Forgotten's claimed role.

My decision to lynch Forgotten has absolutely nothing to do with this, however. There are several other things at play here. These things come together, and make it our best option to lynch Forgotten. It will clear up a large portion of my confusion. I do not know whether or not Forgotten is scum. I have no certainty of that matter. However, the situation and conditions that have been brought forth have forced me to make a decision, and those conditions (which are more extensive than just Beck vs Forgotten) hinge on what he flips. I chose him because he is, in my opinion, the most likely to flip Mafia. If he does, yay. We have a clear and we lynched a scum. Conversely, if he flips Town, I've actually bagged two Mafia members, at the price of losing the would-be confirmed. The same works for Beck, though admittedly slightly different, but I deem that Forgotten is, again, most likely to flip Mafia based on the information I have. So I want to lynch him because I think we have the highest chance of not losing a Townie in this witchhunt.

For the record, only one other person is aware of the full extent of what's going on. Even the people I've trusted with pieces of information don't have all of it. To those of you who express undue worry at me accidentally sharing information "with the wrong people", I simply tell you this: nobody (save the one person, who will be taking over for me behind the scenes) knows enough to leak any critical information to the Mafia. Even if everyone I've so far shared pieces of info with came together and willingly gave their info to the Mafia, the Mafia would still know less about the roles than the person I've set up.

I find it worrisome that many experienced people appear to be trying to sow discontent and discomfort, and question whether their motives are as pure as they'd like us to believe.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Wait so now he doesn't have a second role? He's been claiming he does this entire time. At least as we have understood this entire time, he hasn't corrected us.

Your reason for lynching me may not be that GM, but now he was lying either way. I'm more confident then ever.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Wait so now he doesn't have a second role? He's been claiming he does this entire time. At least as we have understood this entire time, he hasn't corrected us.

Your reason for lynching me may not be that GM, but now he was lying either way. I'm more confident then ever.
He claims that he was attempting to bait a nightkill or roleblock, which is at least a plausible explanation. This is nothing personal, Forgotten, you being Mafia just lines up more nicely with my other scumreads, so I need to test them out before I die. At least get some sort of idea as to who's who.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

I understand it's not personal GM.

I'd like to apoligise if I'm coming off angry.

Also, so there shouldn't be any doubt imo at this point that one of us is scum and one of us is town. Now that he claims we have the same the same role I find town having two of the same roles is unlikely.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

I still can't rule out the possibility that you're both Mafia. I just don't feel too comfortable with either of you, and the fact that Beck lied, either about having one or two powers does nothing to inspire confidence in me. Just the opposite.
@GliscorMan; I want to know why I shouldn't move my vote from Forgotten to Beck. If either of their deaths will give you 2 mafiosi to out, what in your mind makes Forgotten any different from Beck?
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

@GliscorMan; I want to know why I shouldn't move my vote from Forgotten to Beck. If either of their deaths will give you 2 mafiosi to out, what in your mind makes Forgotten any different from Beck?
Quick correction, that's on the off chance that they flip Town. And, quite frankly, there's a couple other scumreads that would be easier to make sense of if Forgotten's lynched over Beck. It's all sort of complicated and I'm trying to simultaneously explain it and not give away critical information.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

@GliscorMan; how do you expect us to blindly follow you if you are giving us no good reason to? As it is the fact that Beck lied makes him more scummier, and further adds to the validity of Forgotten claim timing. You talk about Forgotten lining up with your other scumreads, but you don't even share those with us.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Mmm, OK, if you're that close to certain that Forgotten will flip Mafia and it'll give you more useful info, I'll keep my vote on him so he can go first.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Also, I'm getting scum reads from Rabbit. He said reads would come when he came back, which haven't come. The only post he made was voting me. He tends to slip under the radar until town starts lynching inactives so I think we should keep him in our mind.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

What exactly have I been doing that you find so suspicious? I need specifics, because obviously from my point of view I can't see it. If you don't believe me, you don't believe me. But that won't stop me from trying to convince you otherwise.
Please read posts #285 and #347. I believe I explained my case quite succinctly. You have given me no reason whatsoever to have even the slightest inclination that you are town.

I'm starting to believe that Forgotten is telling the truth, for the reasons Mew has stated. I won't remove my vote just yet, but I'm more and more considering the possibility that we're both Town. I would like to hear from you, @GliscorMan;, regarding the landscape of the roles in this game. Is it likely that there are two almost identical roles? I am not lying about my role, and I can't imagine that Forgotten is either. But he must be. I'm extremely conflicted. If there's room for both, I'm willing to consider us both being innocent.
Thinks Forgotten is telling the truth.
Wants to lynch him anyways.

Unless I missed something, this just seems REALLY contradictory right now, especially with all the votes turning towards Forgotten.

Let's just put it this way. It is very hard for me to determine who to trust, especially in a game like this. Who I choose to share my information with is a very... Important decision to make. I cannot trust you, which is why I cannot give you the information, simply because said information is incredibly sensitive.

I find it harder to trust those who can't trust a confirmed Townie such as myself. Bodes ill, if you understand me.
It's not you I don't trust. It's Beck, and pretty much everybody else. You said it yourself, it's hard to determine who to trust. I only trust you in the sense that I know you are confirmed. Your contacts, whomever they be, can be lying or misleading you. Beck could be (and most likely is) lying to you as well. Just because you are a confirmed town member does not mean that your logic and reasoning are now suddenly infallible and not subject to flaws.

In this scenario, I am not going to change my vote simply because you have "information" that I am not privy to. I'm not asking you to share your information. Of course not. That would be foolish. What I am saying is that, since I do not have this knowledge, I have no reason to believe one way or another whether it is true. And since I cannot determine it's validity, I will not change my vote, and I find it suspect that those whose votes are switching to Forgotten are so easily swayed. We have literally been told nothing besides "trust me" from both you and Beck, and as I've said before, I cannot trust your logic completely simply because you are confirmed town.

For the record, only one other person is aware of the full extent of what's going on. Even the people I've trusted with pieces of information don't have all of it. To those of you who express undue worry at me accidentally sharing information "with the wrong people", I simply tell you this: nobody (save the one person, who will be taking over for me behind the scenes) knows enough to leak any critical information to the Mafia. Even if everyone I've so far shared pieces of info with came together and willingly gave their info to the Mafia, the Mafia would still know less about the roles than the person I've set up.
And do you have 100% certainty that this anonymous contact you have is not mafia? If not, then our worries are 100% justified.

I find it worrisome that many experienced people appear to be trying to sow discontent and discomfort, and question whether their motives are as pure as they'd like us to believe.
I find it worrisome that many experienced people are now so easily changing their minds on a whim and voting Forgotten simply because you said so. As I've said before, it's not you I don't trust. You are town, so I know your intentions are correct. You want to lynch mafia, and so do I. However, your intentions are separate from your reasoning, and because one is good does not mean the other is as well. I do not know whom you are talking to, nor am I asking for that. But considering that I do not know them, and that you cannot be completely certain they are not lying either, I am not going to blindly follow your lead because you are town.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

how do you expect us to blindly follow you if you are giving us no good reason to? As it is the fact that Beck lied makes him more scummier, and further adds to the validity of Forgotten claim timing. You talk about Forgotten lining up with your other scumreads, but you don't even share those with us.
You realize you're being incredibly self-contradictory? You're among the crowd that's worried I'll share sensitive information, like claims for example, yet you want more evidence for my vote. What do you expect me to give? Other peoples' claims like you're so desperately advocating against? It's either the information and full reasoning is kept private and exclusive with a few people, or I reveal it in public and everyone, including the Mafia, gets it.

I know which I prefer, which is why I will not be stating anything more than I already have in regards to the Beck vs Forgotten case.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

@GliscorMan; I never said share everything. I said we need something, such as even your other scumreads, yet you aren't giving us anything other than "trust me. The person who lied is more likely townie."
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

This is getting ridiculous.

Midori, just ask him privately if you want more information. Pumping our conf-townie for info publicly like this is scummy as hell and there's no reason for him to comply.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Midori, just ask him privately if you want more information. Pumping our conf-townie for info publicly like this is scummy as hell and there's no reason for him to comply.
Since when is wanting more info scummy? We've literally been given nothing, and both Gliscorman and Beck both expect the town to comply simply because they said so.

We have exactly one reason to suspect Forgotten: his claim. That's it. On the other hand, we have multiple reasons to suspect Beck. And yet, we're going with the former because we're just supposed to disregard common sense and automatically believe what we're told.

As I said before, being a confirmed townie does not mean that Gliscorman isn't being lied to. Neither does it clear Beck in any way, shape, or form. So for us to just abandon our doubts and concerns and play "follow the leader" because GM is confirmed is incredibly risky and dangerous.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Midori, just ask him privately if you want more information. Pumping our conf-townie for info publicly like this is scummy as hell and there's no reason for him to comply.
Since when is wanting more info scummy?
Since when is that what I said?

Ask him privately. If he trusts you with it, he'll give it to you. But don't demand that he broadcasts it publicly in the thread.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Ask him privately. If he trusts you with it, he'll give it to you. But don't demand that he broadcasts it publicly in the thread.
I think you're misunderstanding what it is I'm asking for. I'm not asking for Gliscorman to be totally transparent and give us everything he knows. All I want is a suitable reason for me to consider voting someone besides Beck, preferably a reason that isn't just "because I said so."
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

@Master Mew; I think you're missing my point. GM expects the thread to follow him blindly but you can't expect that without giving something. No one is saying to tell everything, and contacting him private do3snt help the thread make a decision. This isn't a one man show. Town needs to work together;
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Ask him privately. If he trusts you with it, he'll give it to you. But don't demand that he broadcasts it publicly in the thread.
I think you're misunderstanding what it is I'm asking for. I'm not asking for Gliscorman to be totally transparent and give us everything he knows. All I want is a suitable reason for me to consider voting someone besides Beck, preferably a reason that isn't just "because I said so."
@Master Mew; I think you're missing my point. GM expects the thread to follow him blindly but you can't expect that without giving something. No one is saying to tell everything, and contacting him private do3snt help the thread make a decision. This isn't a one man show. Town needs to work together;
I agree 100%. But, first of all, "one man show" is one of those dangerous buzzwords that spooks people into thinking the game is going to be led by one person henceforth and that's extremely misleading since GliscorMan is going to be dead after Night 3, so for the record nobody is proposing that.

Secondly, "the thread" is made up of individuals, who are all perfectly capable of shooting GliscorMan a PM. And since some of those individuals are Scum, it's perfectly reasonable that GliscorMan will withhold information from some and share with others.

Here, let's just clear this misunderstanding up, because maybe we're just thinking of different things. Give me an example of the sort of "information" you'd need to hear from GliscorMan to be satisfied that wouldn't erode the one advantage we have right now in a Townie who holds information the Mafia doesn't have access to? And one good reason why that information would have to be shared in-thread instead of privately.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

@Midorikawa; @GastlyGibus;

And that's exactly where you're wrong. This is a one-man show, at least for now. That's what happens with a mass-claim, and why so many people dislike it. You've got to put your faith in the confirmed Townie that he knows what he's doing, that he'll keep the information secure, that he'll set the right people up with each other, and that he'll lead the lynch using all of the information he's gathered.

There are some things that, if I told you them, would suddenly make things click into place for you. With one sentence, I could provide you and everyone else here with enough reasoning to follow me. But I can't. The information has connotations beyond just whether to lynch Beck or Forgotten, and I cannot make those public, or even (in good confidence) share them with anyone else. If I made public why I want to lynch Forgotten over Beck, and explained it in enough detail to make sense, the Mafia would have a massive advantage, and the Town would no longer have the advantage that it does. Information is the most important thing about this game, and I cannot jeopardize any of the information.

I can't give out the scumreads until Forgotten (or, I suppose, Beck) is lynched, and I can't even tell you why until then, either. Even hinting at why could unravel the whole thing, and have it all come crashing down on the Town.

Now do you understand?
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 2nd -- Day 3 -- To Isengard!

Maybe a little dramatic toward the end, there, @GliscorMan :p but yeah, basically that.
 
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