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Mafia Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 31st -- Endgame -- Mafia Victory!

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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 5th -- Night 3 -- Ill Enough

Role confirmed.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 5th -- Night 3 -- Ill Enough

@GastlyGibus; I direct you to the post where I explained this already.

And that's exactly where you're wrong. This is a one-man show, at least for now. That's what happens with a mass-claim, and why so many people dislike it. You've got to put your faith in the confirmed Townie that he knows what he's doing, that he'll keep the information secure, that he'll set the right people up with each other, and that he'll lead the lynch using all of the information he's gathered.

There are some things that, if I told you them, would suddenly make things click into place for you. With one sentence, I could provide you and everyone else here with enough reasoning to follow me. But I can't. The information has connotations beyond just whether to lynch Beck or Forgotten, and I cannot make those public, or even (in good confidence) share them with anyone else. If I made public why I want to lynch Forgotten over Beck, and explained it in enough detail to make sense, the Mafia would have a massive advantage, and the Town would no longer have the advantage that it does. Information is the most important thing about this game, and I cannot jeopardize any of the information.

I can't give out the scumreads until Forgotten (or, I suppose, Beck) is lynched, and I can't even tell you why until then, either. Even hinting at why could unravel the whole thing, and have it all come crashing down on the Town.

Now do you understand?
Now that Forgotten is lynched, some other things I didn't think of came up. But, because I'm (of course) in contact with the investigative roles, I can guarantee that we will bag more scum than just Beck.

(Plus, a 4 Town for 1 Mafia ratio is pretty normal. If we got 1 Mafia for the first 4 Town, I'd say that we're on the right track)
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 5th -- Night 3 -- Ill Enough

GastlyGibus; I direct you to the post where I explained this already.
And I direct you to the three posts where I explained the absurdity of that logic. (Posts #390, #394, and #419, for those using different post display limits.)

Regardless, it's a waste of time now to debate this. Forgotten was town. Beck is mafia. That's all that can be gleaned from this. And four town for one mafia is not a good trade off. At that rate, the town would lose before we could even put a dent in the mafia's numbers. The way Pheonicks has this set up, one town member will die every night phase, doctor protection be damned. We have very little margin for error here, and we can't afford to keep taking shots in the dark, hoping to hit mafia. We need solid, concrete evidence to support our lynches, something that was decidedly missing in the Forgotten v. Beck case.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 5th -- Night 3 -- Ill Enough


Look we got scu- oh wait, no we didn't because for some reason logic dictates that the one that lied about their role was supposed to be town, and thus the one that evidence pointed to as town is scum.


MAFIA IS NEVER A ONE MAN SHOW!!!

And this is why. As someone with massclaims, it is their job to help town figure stuff out, not decide it, because if they do then we mislynch, and we lose a member, and mafia lives another phase.

@HumanDawn; Not sure if I misunderstood or not, but did you say that you pressured beck into claiming exactly the same role as Forgotten.


Also FoS: CrackFox still defending Beck, really? I think this FoS is obvious. Oh and of course Beck=Scum and if he isn't then I will be shocked, not that that should happen.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 5th -- Night 3 -- Ill Enough

Not sure if I misunderstood or not, but did you say that you pressured beck into claiming exactly the same role as Forgotten.
I was talking with him privately and he told me his role was the same as Forgotten's, that's when I figured one of them had to be lying if their role was the same.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 5th -- Night 3 -- Ill Enough

Not sure if I misunderstood or not, but did you say that you pressured beck into claiming exactly the same role as Forgotten.
I was talking with him privately and he told me his role was the same as Forgotten's, that's when I figured one of them had to be lying if their role was the same.
What made you think Beck was tellin the truth
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 5th -- Night 3 -- Ill Enough

What made you think Beck was tellin the truth
The fact he told me he had no night action made me trust him more because he were Mafia, claiming to not have it would put him on more equal ground with Forgotten because he'd have no role to prove.
Say he wanted to fakeclaim Tracker, he could have done so to Gliscorman and Gliscorman would be more inclined to vote Forgotten, and Beck wouldn't need to worry about proving anything if he'd be lynched the next phase.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 5th -- Night 3 -- Ill Enough

Ok. I've flicked through the thread a bit and dug up some posts. In the lynch on Soulmaster on Day 1, Crystal Onix was the first to place an actual, non-RNG vote. He also jumped on the Forgotten bandwagon (though that was the Gliscor thing.) Fishy, fishy. He didn't contribute much in Day 2 either.

That's not to say Beck's off the hook, though. Fact is, both you and Beck have me spooked with your role claims, but GM also considered the same things I gonsidered, and I have to admit, out of the two of us, GM is the more experienced and informed player. My scumdar is still fallible, probably more so than many other people's as shown by the fact that I was certain Soulmaster was scum, and I don't even have a cop role. These are things I have to keep in mind.
Care to elaborate a bit on that? What's so "spooky" about it?

Anyways,

FoS: Crystal Onix
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 5th -- Night 3 -- Ill Enough

To be honest, I'm more than a bit unsure about who to trust. I have been told by GliscorMan that there's someone I can trust, yet they were one of the people I was less sure about before. If they know who they are, can they please pm me and tell me why they are so trustworthy. There have been 3 townies killed so far, 4 by 10 tonight. This means there will be a higher concentration of Mafiosi than before. I am loathe to trust anyone at the moment. However, there is one person I know is 100% mafia. So, a massive FoS: Beck
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 5th -- Night 3 -- Ill Enough

Also, fun fact, Beck has been (un)surprisingly quiet since the lynch results.

@Beck; not that it's likely to change my mind at this point, considering there's pretty much a 99% probability that you're mafia, but I would love to hear what you have to say to all of this.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 5th -- Night 3 -- Ill Enough

@GastlyGibus; @Midorikawa;

Again, I have not told you anything about what's going on because I don't trust you, and I can't trust the public. It's as simple as that.

If you can't find it in yourself to trust the only freaking confirmed townie, then I doubt whether or not you're on the same side as I am. Highly doubt, as in I'd genuinely be impressed if you flipped Town.

Why doesn't it make sense that I can't tell you? There's a lot of information at stake, and I'm putting the needs of the Town over the needs of individuals. Chill out, it's nothing personal.

Already, we can see what happens when I even give a hint of information to someone. They go right out and share it with the thread, isn't that right, flip? This is why I refuse to share anything of worth with the public.

Let's put it this way. If I say person X and person Y have claimed similar roles, and I know that one of them is Mafia, the one that's Mafia immediately knows that the other is Town. And if they know that, they have one less person to worry about when they're hunting for the power roles. Oh, plus it gives the Mafia the information that I have, which takes away the advantage that I've worked hard to give the Town.

You two are literally suggesting that I throw everything I've worked for away because you don't like one of the steps.

Once again, I'm going to state that the lynch on Forgotten was not about Beck vs Forgotten.

The outcome that I'm working for is a Town victory. If you have a problem with that, speak up so we can lynch you for being Mafia.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 5th -- Night 3 -- Ill Enough

@GliscorMan; I do have an issue because again MAFIA IS NOT A ONE MAN SHOW! Yet that phase got treated as one. For you it may have been more, but for the thread for that phase it was about Beck vs Forgotten because we had the information in front of us in thread, not what you had. The mafia revolved around everyone not one person for one phase or ever! If disagreeing with you and pointing out how wrong you are makes me scum, then so be it, but I will not keep quiet and watch you or any one make decision that hurt the town like you just did.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 5th -- Night 3 -- Ill Enough

@GliscorMan; I do have an issue because again MAFIA IS NOT A ONE MAN SHOW! Yet that phase got treated as one. For you it may have been more, but for the thread for that phase it was about Beck vs Forgotten because we had the information in front of us in thread, not what you had. The mafia revolved around everyone not one person for one phase or ever! If disagreeing with you and pointing out how wrong you are makes me scum, then so be it, but I will not keep quiet and watch you or any one make decision that hurt the town like you just did.
Well, FYI, Gliscor's the only truly confirmed townie. That comment reeks of scum. No wonder he doesn't trust you. Huge FoS:Midorikara.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 5th -- Night 3 -- Ill Enough

I do have an issue because again MAFIA IS NOT A ONE MAN SHOW! Yet that phase got treated as one. For you it may have been more, but for the thread for that phase it was about Beck vs Forgotten because we had the information in front of us in thread, not what you had. The mafia revolved around everyone not one person for one phase or ever! If disagreeing with you and pointing out how wrong you are makes me scum, then so be it, but I will not keep quiet and watch you or any one make decision that hurt the town like you just did.
Mido. What do you want? There's nothing I can change without throwing the game. I won't throw the game because I don't like getting banned. What do you propose I do that won't get me banned?

I can't give you the information I used to make my decision in Forgotten vs Beck, and that's final. In fact, the information will only go public after the phase update, which will kill me. And even then only if what happens is as I expect it. In fact, I'll have multiple people able to corroborate the story, on the entirely probable, based on the way you guys are acting chance that you don't trust one of them.

But right now, you're trying to debate that your "information" which basically amounts to your opinion is as equally worthy as the extensive information I have gathered through a host-sanctioned mass-claim.

Go look up proper mass-claim protocol on any Mafia wiki. You'll see that what I did was entirely within reason, and is exactly what I should have done in the situation I was in. Heck, I'll go ahead and find one and quote it right now.

EpicMafia Wiki said:
In a game with whispers enabled, the town may decide to claim to a certain clear (or near-clear), who can sort out the information in order to decide who to lynch or how otherwise to proceed (typically by finding counterclaimed roles). This has the advantage of not outing players' roles, especially power roles, to the mafia as a public massclaim would do.
There. Happy? I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 5th -- Night 3 -- Ill Enough

Also, fun fact, Beck has been (un)surprisingly quiet since the lynch results.

@Beck; not that it's likely to change my mind at this point, considering there's pretty much a 99% probability that you're mafia, but I would love to hear what you have to say to all of this.
I'm sorry, but I've been without Internet this week, I'm on vacation with family. I'll post with all of my thoughts in the next hour. Let me read back.

And I can't wait to see you lose your pants when I flip Town. Oh my God, you're all so confident.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 5th -- Night 3 -- Ill Enough

@GliscorMan; Did Mido claim to you? I personally doubt it.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 5th -- Night 3 -- Ill Enough

Again, I have not told you anything about what's going on because I don't trust you, and I can't trust the public. It's as simple as that.
Trust is not a one way street. If you cannot trust me, how can you expect me to trust you in return?

If you can't find it in yourself to trust the only freaking confirmed townie, then I doubt whether or not you're on the same side as I am. Highly doubt, as in I'd genuinely be impressed if you flipped Town.
Well, as we can see, the trust that was placed in you by the others was clearly misplaced, considering you were wrong about Forgotten being mafia.

Let me reiterate this once again. Being a confirmed town member does not mean you are right. You being town, and you being correct, are two totally different things. They are incongruent with each other. Just because you are town does not mean that your logic, your reasoning, your accusations, and your conclusions are now suddenly above reproach and not subject to criticism. The issue is not about trusting the townie, as I've stated numerous times. The issue is about trusting whom you are talking to.

Now see, I don't know whom you are talking to. And since I do not know that, I have absolutely no reason to trust their words, since I do not even know whom they are and what was said. Surely you can understand that, considering I do not have any of the knowledge you apparently possess, I cannot trust whether or not the source is reliable.

And again, we can clearly see that Forgotten was town. If anything, this proves my point even further that just because you are town does not mean you are automatically correct. you were wrong about Forgotten's alignment. You are accusing me of being mafia, and you are wrong about that as well. You being town does not mean you are incapable of being wrong. This is what I'm trying to say.

Why doesn't it make sense that I can't tell you? There's a lot of information at stake, and I'm putting the needs of the Town over the needs of individuals. Chill out, it's nothing personal.
No, it's not personal. I never said it was. I'm only sounding frustrated because you, and others, are willfully ignoring what I'm trying to say. I am fully aware that whatever information you have is sensitive. Of course it is. I never asked for you to tell me absolutely everything you know, and I understand that, obviously, since you don't trust me, you're not ging to share that with me. I understand that.

But, if I don't have any information whatsoever, then there is absolutely no reason at all for me to change my vote. From the information that I have, which is obviously not as much as the information you have, Beck was our best choice for lynching. And again - and please understand, I'm not trying to be an arrogant narcissist when I say this - the fact of the matter remains that I was right about Forgotten. Me, and several others, further proving my point that just because you are town does not mean you are automatically correct. Can you understand now what I mean when I say I can't trust you? It's not your alignment that I am doubting. It's your reasoning, your logic, and your conclusions, which are completely unrelated.

You two are literally suggesting that I throw everything I've worked for away because you don't like one of the steps.
And we can see what happens when you keep everything to yourself.

Once again, I'm going to state that the lynch on Forgotten was not about Beck vs Forgotten.

The outcome that I'm working for is a Town victory. If you have a problem with that, speak up so we can lynch you for being Mafia.
The goal of the game, at least for the town, is to lynch the mafia before they all are killed themselves. How, exactly, does lynching a town member help us? Yes, we get information. Cool. Fantastic, even. But if we keep taking shots in the dark like this, and lynching town members left and right, we will lose. We can't afford more mislynches for information's sake. It's dangerous, and if we keep this up, the town will lose. Period.

So yes, I do have a problem with keeping secrets, especially ones that involve the fate of a would-be lynchee. If that makes me scummy, well, I don't really know what to say. I've tried explaining myself over and over again, and nobody seems to understand what I'm trying to convey.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 5th -- Night 3 -- Ill Enough

Look we got scu- oh wait, no we didn't because for some reason logic dictates that the one that lied about their role was supposed to be town, and thus the one that evidence pointed to as town is scum.
Your sarcasm is annoying and it's a low blow if you're trying to be funny. You're playing too confidently, and you were the one reluctant to claim to a confirmed innocent. That's ridiculous. And @GastlyGibus;, what happened to you? Your tone is awful. Calm down.

Yes, I lied. I thought that I was the only other Miller-like role, so I embellished my role to draw a Mafia NK, or at the very least, a Mafia Roleblock. Just like GM has said. I won't deny my white lie. But believe me when I say that I did it with the Town's best interest in mind. I did not expect Forgotten to counterclaim, because I did not expect there to be another player with the same exact role as me. Yes, exactly the same role. This will make more sense when I'm lynched tomorrow. I think it will be a great lesson to everyone playing. Be sure to take a photo of your reaction, Midori and Gastly, because I cannot wait to see your faces. Yikes, you're both obnoxiously confident.

But again, if I were in any of your positions, I would probably do the same thing. So everyone with a level head, I will not be upset if you lynch me. There's really nothing I can do or say at this point to convince you otherwise, and that's okay. So while I am still alive tonight, feel free to ask me any question you may have. Anything. About anyone or anything. I'll do my very best to answer it in a timely manner.

Thank you.
 
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Re: Lord of the Rings Mafia -- August 5th -- Night 3 -- Ill Enough

Ok. If anyone asks me, these are my personal scum reads.

Beck: Well, everyone suspects him. I'm no exception.
Crystal Onix: Voted on both lynches. Indirectly started bandwagon on Soulmaster. A little fishy.
Mido: See post #432. Insanely scummy.
 
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