• A new LGBTQ+ forum is now being trialed and there have been changes made to the Support and Advice forum. To read more about these updates, click here.
  • Hey Trainers! Be sure to check out Corsola Beach, our newest section on the forums, in partnership with our friends at Corsola Cove! At the Beach, you can discuss the competitive side of the games, post your favorite Pokemon memes, and connect with other Pokemon creators!
  • Due to the recent changes with Twitter's API, it is no longer possible for Bulbagarden forum users to login via their Twitter account. If you signed up to Bulbagarden via Twitter and do not have another way to login, please contact us here with your Twitter username so that we can get you sorted.

Review M17: Diancie and the Cocoon of Destruction

Anyway, I'm surprised people seem to have doubts about the lyrics... it's definitely "teach" and not "each" in that line, or at least it should be... "each" wouldn't really make sense.
I just see it as seeking to understand the power within every Pokémon, using anastrophe to achieve rhyme. To me, it makes no less sense than "Just can't stop 'til your power I master" (after all, English is a subject-verb-object language, so how does the apparent object-subject-verb form "your power I master" make any sense?).

Though I did find something rather interesting:
Someone on the discussion page for "Pokémon Theme" said that the Spanish version says "teach" (""Enseñe a Pokémon de entender / El poder que hay dentro" which literally translates to "Teach Pokémon to understand / The power that's inside". The verb Enseñar = "to teach"."). The problem: it was actually a fan translation. What's more, I found a page with the real Spanish versions, both Latin American and European, along with a bunch of other languages, and... well:

Spanish (Latin American):
Yo viajaré de aquí a allá, buscando hasta el fin./¡Oh! Pokémon yo entenderé tu poder interior (I will travel from here to there, searching until the end/Oh Pokemon, I will understand your inside power)

Spanish (European):
Al fin podré desentrañar/el poder que hay en Pokémon (At last I will be able to solve the mystery/In the power that is in Pokemon)

Catalan:
per fi podré desentranyar/el poder dels pokemon (I'll finally be able to reveal/The power of the Pokémon)

French:
Je parcourrai la Terre entière/Traquant avec espoir/Les Pokemon et leurs mystères/Le secret de leur pouvoir (I will traverse the whole Earth/Hunting with hope/The Pokemon and their mysteries/The secret of their power)

German:
Ich streife durch das ganze Land/Ich suche weit und breit/Das Pokemon um zu verstehen/Was ihm diese Macht verleiht (I roam the land/I search near and far [for]/The Pokemon to understand/Where it gets this power from)

Portuguese (Brazilian):
Pelo o mundo viajarei/Tentando encontar/Um Pokémon e com o seu poder/Tudo transformar (I'll travel through the world/trying to meet/a pokemon and with his power/change everything)

Portuguese (European):
Pelo mundo viajarei/Tentando encontrar/Um pokémon e com o seu poder/Tudo transformar (I will travel across the world/Trying to find/A Pokémon and with its power/Transform everything)

Finnish:
etsin aina vaan,/ja Pokémonin jokaisen,/mä opin tuntemaan (I'm still searching/And I will learn to know/each Pokémon)

Arabic (classical):
Sa usafiru abr al’ard/Bahithan fi kolli makan/An Pokemon adati salaam/Quwwatin la tuhan (I’ll travel around the earth/Searching everywhere/For Pokemon, the tool of peace/Power that won’t be disgraced)

Russian:
В путь смелее, пробил час./И недруг пусть боится нас./Ведь победный светит знак,/Друг другу, врагу враг. (Off we go daring, the hour has come/And let the villains fear us/You see, the sign of victory shines/Friend for friend, enemy for enemy)

Bulgarian:
Аз ще ида на край света,/ще търся ден и нощ/...и ще разкрия тайната,/мощта на покемон. (I will go to the end of the world,/I'll look for it day and night/and I'll reveal the secret,/the power of Pokemon!)


Notice the theme of most of the ones based on the English version (that aren't completely out of the left field like the Portuguese, Arabic, and Russian): "I want to understand/uncover the power within Pokémon." Notice what it's not: "I want to teach Pokémon about their power" (not knowing German, that apparently implied "for" makes it look to me like "I'm traveling in order for my Pokémon to learn about where their power comes from," and if that counts as teaching, that's still... one out of how many?).

So what does that mean?

1. It was supposed to be "teach." Through some comedy of errors, however, whoever typed up the lyrics either accidentally forgot the T or copied a version where the T was torn/cut off or otherwise destroyed, then sent this mistaken version to everyone else (2.B.A. Master CD people, foreign translators, English singers), and everybody used this mistaken version.

2. It was supposed to be "teach." Through another comedy of errors,
a. the foreign language translators either didn't get printed lyrics and had to listen to them and almost all of those people heard 'each,' or they did get a typed version that did say 'teach' but most of them still, for whatever reason, decided to translate it talking about seeking to understand the power of Pokémon rather than seeking to teach Pokémon about their power (and, save for German, those that didn't talk about understanding the power of Pokémon talked about something completely different, like "tools of peace" and not disgracing their power, winning, or using the power of Pokémon to "transform/change everything");
b. the English singers are saying 'teach,' but something (in the recording process, mastering process, even just the instrumentation) keeps destroying or otherwise rendering unclear that T (and, apparently, for some strange reason, only that particular T; after all, do you hear "Uh catch them is my real est, uh train them is my cause," or "you each me and I'll each you," or "Come with me, the ime is right. There's no better eam"?); and
c. the "each" on the 2.B.A. Master CD insert was just a random, if unfortunately opportune, typo (or alternatively, whoever typed them up was also putting down what they heard, and they also misheard it as "each").

3. It was supposed to be "each." John forgot what he wrote ~15 years ago, and when asked about it recently, he thought something like, "Yeah, 'teach' makes sense. It must have been meant to be 'teach.'"
 
Last edited:
b. the English singers are saying 'teach,' but something (in the recording process, mastering process, even just the instrumentation) keeps destroying or otherwise rendering unclear that T (and, apparently, for some strange reason, only that particular T; after all, do you hear "Uh catch them is my real est, uh train them is my cause," or "you each me and I'll each you," or "Come with me, the ime is right. There's no better eam"?)
My assumption was that for whatever reason they didn't want to make a decision on teach/each when doing the version for the new series and this movie - so they sung 'teach' and then edited it to try and match the sound to the original, rather than trying to correct the lyric either way.

It kinda makes sense when considering that the point of utilising the old theme was to leverage all the nostalgia for how things used to be, and you wouldn't want to ruin that with what some people might see as changing the words, when it's easy enough to sidestep the issue by making it unclear. Because obviously no one would over analyse that part of the song on the internet, so it'd be fine.

To me the lyrics would also make sense if there was a missing/abbreviated 'for' in front of 'each' - 'Searching far and wide for each Pokemon, to understand the power that's inside'. Making the whole line about discovering new Pokemon and their powers.

Regardless, I really like this version of the song, and the extended one in the movie does a very good job. I'll miss it if they change themes for the next dub season.
 
The aspect of using themes for the characters is actually an interesting parallel to the earlier days of the dub-I don't know about the TV show, but for The First Movie (and presumably the second and third), there was an emphasis from Norman Grossfeld to Ralph Schuckett to create themes for the various characters. One thing I think is lacking from Shinji's scores are recognizable themes for the characters-you'll hear a bit here and there, but overall it's not super thematic. Now, I can also see the argument that it goes too far the other way in the English version, but I think the approach used in the dub is valid.
 
I'm not too familiar with the original versions of AG or DP, but didn't May and Dawn have instrumental versions of their ending themes play all the time? I don't think Misty or Iris had their own themes, and I haven't noticed Serena getting the same treatment with hers (although it's only been around for a handful of episodes) but I remember hearing May and Dawn did have their own themes.
 
The aspect of using themes for the characters is actually an interesting parallel to the earlier days of the dub-I don't know about the TV show, but for The First Movie (and presumably the second and third), there was an emphasis from Norman Grossfeld to Ralph Schuckett to create themes for the various characters. One thing I think is lacking from Shinji's scores are recognizable themes for the characters-you'll hear a bit here and there, but overall it's not super thematic. Now, I can also see the argument that it goes too far the other way in the English version, but I think the approach used in the dub is valid.

The 4Kids era never really gave characters their themes... maybe they tried doing it for the movie as you said although I don't really remember anything like that.
The Japanese version has been doing it for a while though. Like, I'm surprised you said they only do it for "a bit here and there". Starting from DP at least they always had themes for the chracters: Dawn's Theme, May's Theme during her visit (and the late days of AG), Ash's theme during DP, the Contests theme, I can't really remember it but Barry had a theme too, Riolu/Lucario/aura theme, Pokémon Ranger theme, Iris and Cilan had themes too (they were some of the few tracks released from BW and were constantly used for Iris/Cilan scenes), Clemont's theme that I'm sure everyone is aware of by now, and I'm not sure but I think there was a certain theme often used in some of the Serena focused scenes?
So yes the Japanese version does use themes a lot. Much more than the dub ever did... I think that in the recent years the dub has been trying to mostly keep this kind of "theme music" and if they do replace it they're trying to create a new theme for that character like they seemingly do with Hawlucha.

Also regarding the lyrics, I still can't see it being anything other than "Teach". Maybe we should wait for a closed captioned version. (anyone got some DVDs with Kanto episodes or the first Movie that have closed captions and can check this?)
Oh and I can confirm that for foreign dubs it is often the case that there's just no written lyrics for the theme songs (or sometimes there is but whoever handles passing the materials to the translator is stupid and doesn't send some of the extra files that they got in addition to episodes scripts) and the translator has to just do it by hearing. (also using different language dubs to decide the English lyrics isn't a good idea anyway since things are always changed in other languages to match the music and rhyme)
 
Yash said:
That's one difference between 4Kids and TPCI, if you watch the opening credits in the movies 4Kids always would credit the American producers, composers, writers etc. first and then throw in a "Created by Satoshi Tajiri" or something whereas TPCI more or less just translates the Japanese credits.

I actually prefer the way TPCI does it. 4Kids giving themselves top billing for work that other people did is such an incredibly arrogant thing for them to do.

Yoshi1001 said:
One thing I think is lacking from Shinji's scores are recognizable themes for the characters-you'll hear a bit here and there, but overall it's not super thematic.

You're clearly not paying attention. Mewtwo in the first movie, Jirarudan in the second film, Zanna and Lyon in the fifth movie, Deoxys in the second Advanced Generation movie, Darkrai in the first DP movie, Dent's "It's ___ Time!" theme, Citron's invention theme, Luchabre's theme music (which actually made an appearance in the Japanese version of this movie, BTW), THE ROCKET-DAN...I could go on and on.
 
a. the foreign language translators either didn't get printed lyrics and had to listen to them and almost all of those people heard 'each,' or they did get a typed version that did say 'teach' but most of them still, for whatever reason, decided to translate it talking about seeking to understand the power of Pokémon rather than seeking to teach Pokémon about their power (and, save for German, those that didn't talk about understanding the power of Pokémon talked about something completely different, like "tools of peace" and not disgracing their power, winning, or using the power of Pokémon to "transform/change everything");

The Norwegian dub gets it right, with "Let Pokemon see that it's possible to use their power", so I'll go with the "they had to translate by ear" theory.
 
In hindsight, what I said is inaccurate and I should have put it differently. It's true that the characters do have themes, they just don't stick with me as much as those first few movies-other than the ones based on the ending songs, I can't recite the tunes. For example, I know Cilan had a theme, and I've heard it plenty of times (I play it on the station, after all), but I couldn't hum a few bars without going back and listening to it. That doesn't make the music good or bad necessarily, just more of an observation.
 
Anyway, I'm surprised people seem to have doubts about the lyrics... it's definitely "teach" and not "each" in that line, or at least it should be... "each" wouldn't really make sense.
I just see it as seeking to understand the power within every Pokémon, using anastrophe to achieve rhyme. To me, it makes no less sense than "Just can't stop 'til your power I master" (after all, English is a subject-verb-object language, so how does the apparent object-subject-verb form "your power I master" make any sense?).

Though I did find something rather interesting:
Someone on the discussion page for "Pokémon Theme" said that the Spanish version says "teach" (""Enseñe a Pokémon de entender / El poder que hay dentro" which literally translates to "Teach Pokémon to understand / The power that's inside". The verb Enseñar = "to teach"."). The problem: it was actually a fan translation. What's more, I found a page with the real Spanish versions, both Latin American and European, along with a bunch of other languages, and... well:

Spanish (Latin American):
Yo viajaré de aquí a allá, buscando hasta el fin./¡Oh! Pokémon yo entenderé tu poder interior (I will travel from here to there, searching until the end/Oh Pokemon, I will understand your inside power)

Spanish (European):
Al fin podré desentrañar/el poder que hay en Pokémon (At last I will be able to solve the mystery/In the power that is in Pokemon)

Catalan:
per fi podré desentranyar/el poder dels pokemon (I'll finally be able to reveal/The power of the Pokémon)

French:
Je parcourrai la Terre entière/Traquant avec espoir/Les Pokemon et leurs mystères/Le secret de leur pouvoir (I will traverse the whole Earth/Hunting with hope/The Pokemon and their mysteries/The secret of their power)

German:
Ich streife durch das ganze Land/Ich suche weit und breit/Das Pokemon um zu verstehen/Was ihm diese Macht verleiht (I roam the land/I search near and far [for]/The Pokemon to understand/Where it gets this power from)

Portuguese (Brazilian):
Pelo o mundo viajarei/Tentando encontar/Um Pokémon e com o seu poder/Tudo transformar (I'll travel through the world/trying to meet/a pokemon and with his power/change everything)

Portuguese (European):
Pelo mundo viajarei/Tentando encontrar/Um pokémon e com o seu poder/Tudo transformar (I will travel across the world/Trying to find/A Pokémon and with its power/Transform everything)

Finnish:
etsin aina vaan,/ja Pokémonin jokaisen,/mä opin tuntemaan (I'm still searching/And I will learn to know/each Pokémon)

Arabic (classical):
Sa usafiru abr al’ard/Bahithan fi kolli makan/An Pokemon adati salaam/Quwwatin la tuhan (I’ll travel around the earth/Searching everywhere/For Pokemon, the tool of peace/Power that won’t be disgraced)

Russian:
В путь смелее, пробил час./И недруг пусть боится нас./Ведь победный светит знак,/Друг другу, врагу враг. (Off we go daring, the hour has come/And let the villains fear us/You see, the sign of victory shines/Friend for friend, enemy for enemy)

Bulgarian:
Аз ще ида на край света,/ще търся ден и нощ/...и ще разкрия тайната,/мощта на покемон. (I will go to the end of the world,/I'll look for it day and night/and I'll reveal the secret,/the power of Pokemon!)


Notice the theme of most of the ones based on the English version (that aren't completely out of the left field like the Portuguese, Arabic, and Russian): "I want to understand/uncover the power within Pokémon." Notice what it's not: "I want to teach Pokémon about their power" (not knowing German, that apparently implied "for" makes it look to me like "I'm traveling in order for my Pokémon to learn about where their power comes from," and if that counts as teaching, that's still... one out of how many?).

So what does that mean?

1. It was supposed to be "teach." Through some comedy of errors, however, whoever typed up the lyrics either accidentally forgot the T or copied a version where the T was torn/cut off or otherwise destroyed, then sent this mistaken version to everyone else (2.B.A. Master CD people, foreign translators, English singers), and everybody used this mistaken version.

2. It was supposed to be "teach." Through another comedy of errors,
a. the foreign language translators either didn't get printed lyrics and had to listen to them and almost all of those people heard 'each,' or they did get a typed version that did say 'teach' but most of them still, for whatever reason, decided to translate it talking about seeking to understand the power of Pokémon rather than seeking to teach Pokémon about their power (and, save for German, those that didn't talk about understanding the power of Pokémon talked about something completely different, like "tools of peace" and not disgracing their power, winning, or using the power of Pokémon to "transform/change everything");
b. the English singers are saying 'teach,' but something (in the recording process, mastering process, even just the instrumentation) keeps destroying or otherwise rendering unclear that T (and, apparently, for some strange reason, only that particular T; after all, do you hear "Uh catch them is my real est, uh train them is my cause," or "you each me and I'll each you," or "Come with me, the ime is right. There's no better eam"?); and
c. the "each" on the 2.B.A. Master CD insert was just a random, if unfortunately opportune, typo (or alternatively, whoever typed them up was also putting down what they heard, and they also misheard it as "each").

3. It was supposed to be "each." John forgot what he wrote ~15 years ago, and when asked about it recently, he thought something like, "Yeah, 'teach' makes sense. It must have been meant to be 'teach.'"

If can help, the Italian Pokémon theme (of the redub) was the last Pokémon theme made in foreign languages, recorded in august 2009 for TPCi, for the re dubbing of the first 4 seasons.
The lyrics:
- E capirò il potere che, ogni Pokémon ha in se!
- And i will understand the power that, every Pokémon has itself!
 
My assumption was that for whatever reason they didn't want to make a decision on teach/each when doing the version for the new series and this movie - so they sung 'teach' and then edited it to try and match the sound to the original, rather than trying to correct the lyric either way.

It kinda makes sense when considering that the point of utilising the old theme was to leverage all the nostalgia for how things used to be, and you wouldn't want to ruin that with what some people might see as changing the words, when it's easy enough to sidestep the issue by making it unclear.
...They made them (this guy and, presumably, Billy Crawford) sing "teach," then edited it to sound like "each"/the original because 1. they didn't want to choose between them, and 2. nostalgia? What happened to #http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/usertag.php?do=list&action=hash&hash=11 when they supposedly edited out the T, and what happened to either of those when John specified which it was apparently intended to be?

I wonder if anybody's asked and gotten an answer from the singers about what they were given to sing....

Oh and I can confirm that for foreign dubs it is often the case that there's just no written lyrics for the theme songs (or sometimes there is but whoever handles passing the materials to the translator is stupid and doesn't send some of the extra files that they got in addition to episodes scripts) and the translator has to just do it by hearing.
Interesting. o_O I was just guessing. :sweatlol:

(also using different language dubs to decide the English lyrics isn't a good idea anyway since things are always changed in other languages to match the music and rhyme)
The person from Bulbapedia thought it was helpful/interesting, and I did too (it just didn't work out in their favor).
VWFixxshrug.gif


The Norwegian dub gets it right, with "Let Pokemon see that it's possible to use their power", so I'll go with the "they had to translate by ear" theory.
Interesting. Thanks.

Teach: German, Norwegian
Learn about: Spanish (Lat. Am.), Spanish (Euro), Catalan, French, Finnish, Bulgarian, Italian

If can help, the Italian Pokémon theme (of the redub) was the last Pokémon theme made in foreign languages, recorded in august 2009 for TPCi, for the re dubbing of the first 4 seasons.
The lyrics:
- E capirò il potere che, ogni Pokémon ha in se!
- And i will understand the power that, every Pokémon has itself!
Oh? Cool. Thanks.
 
Last edited:
He's the only one credited as working on the main feature, though. Sometimes he *is* the only composer to work on a particular episode / movie.

Tada Akifumi did the music for the accompanying Pikachu short but those credits were obviously not included here.
 
I kind of liked how Merrick, Knight, and Joke played some comedic roles during the movie. Speaking of which, has anyone figured out the English names for Joke and Knight since the ones I heard were pronounced Bort and Alatrome, respectively, and I was unable to get closed captioning to confirm the spelling of the two?
 
I'm sure there are more than a few Simpsons fans at TPCI.
 
Yeah, I was thinking of the exact same thing with the name Bort being on the Simpsons. However, I just discovered on wikipedia that Bort is related with diamonds, as well as the dictionary.com site, which is probably why the name was chosen. As for Alatrome, no information has been found yet.
 
I'm actually going to spend money on the Japanese Blu-ray. I will not watch the dub.
 
I know I'm obviously biased here since I pay way more attention to the music than a lot of people but I don't understand how people have trouble telling whether a piece of music was composed for the Japanese version or the English dub. Miyazaki Shinji and whoever does the music for the dub (John Loeffler?) have such completely different composition styles, use different instruments (a full orchestra vs. synthesizers), and have their music edited into the picture in such different ways that I don't see how anyone could mistake one for the other.

But anyway, I'm disappointed but not at all surprised that the music issue isn't fixed for the DVD release.

Ummm... They don't use synthesizers anymore in the dub. Pretty sure most if not all of XY's dub music is fully orchestrated
 
It isn't. The only shows on American TV (animated or otherwise) that still use full orchestras are The Simpsons, Family Guy, and American Dad!. Everyone else uses synthesizers because they're cheaper.

Modern synthesizers sound better than the older ones and conductors are getting better at using them so that's probably where some of your confusion is coming from.


(Plus, you can just listen to it and tell)
 
I'm actually going to spend money on the Japanese Blu-ray. I will not watch the dub.
That's the spirit!

The only time the dub score for Pokemon has ever used real orchestra is for the first three movies. As Dogasu said composers have simply gotten better at using synth.

(Also Legend of Korra does use an orchestra but that's neither here nor there, plus it's over now anyway)
 
Please note: The thread is from 8 years ago.
Please take the age of this thread into consideration in writing your reply. Depending on what exactly you wanted to say, you may want to consider if it would be better to post a new thread instead.
Back
Top Bottom