pokemon fan 132
pokemon fan 132
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2008
- Messages
- 2,989
- Reaction score
- 377
In regards to Ash himself and movie:
And now the response:
I can assure you that people would be more keen on hearing classic story again if it was done in proper way. Not omitting 2/3 of who formed that story in OS. This being movie about Ash and Pikachu strength of relationship doesn't hide fact that surrounding and other characters played role in influencing those iconic moments and characterization of main protagonist himself being part of that classic storyline.
By removing them your doing disservice to OS legacy, disrespecting older fans, devoid kids of knowing what was true history and roots. And at same time through this bipolar byproduct called anniversary movie which tries both to be nostalgic and tell completely different story acting as full reboot insulting foundations on which franchise was born(since anime did played big role I creating positive reputation and image of pokemon as whole, especially in beginning).*
As for original universe not getting conclusion diluting same protagonist in multiple in carnations of his former self. Your not only destroying image that same protagonist established around himself. But pillars of entire theme and message this series promoted ever since they started.
Recent news about movie and how shitty Ash was toward his pokemon(Pikachu) muds on image original version of himself used to have.
Not even counting massive loss of interest among fans from various generations(both young and older)who waited for years to receive gratification. In form of sensible, good ending.
Keeping same protagonist with no personality, emotion, experiences and depth original one had defeats purpose of reboot. Undermining its strength and direction writers are attempting to go with such project.
If they're trying to go for reboot at least stay consistent with theme by replacing Ash as well instead of mudding his legacy and identity through using cheap copy of his former self.
Needless to say it would be only fair, considerate and respectful to first tie loose ends, unfinished storylines and the4mes started in original universe and main series. Bringing everything to an end eventually, regardless of some like you being tired of original Ash and this universe.
Before even considering option of doing reboot, let alone carrying it in reality while spitting directly in face of legacy older characters and plots from original universe left behind themselves.
Or to be more precise first clean mess in your own backyard before going on something else.
Popular? It literally broke fandom dividing them in such way, that its almost like it was when Misty was replaced splitting original trio (you guys should have been present online when that happened).
In that case your well aware of consequences and how such things can quickly go down south.
So sound director, Rica Matsumoto, logo, manga and on top of that fact that in ending credits for anniversary movie SM characters were on purpose excluded don't ring a bell to you?
Ash not interacting with Team Rocket could also come from fact that Ash in different universe didn't had especially negative encounters with TR in beginnings like original Ash did with their conflict and*rivalry happening later on.
I mean its no definite proof that anniversary movie and SM anime belong in separate universe. But writers and directors with eradication of continuity, flashbacks and any valuable mention, let alone return of characters from past series surely are not helping this to clear up either.
Giving reason to doubt if they are trying to slipom under radar how full fledged reboot happened . Counting on fanbase being dumb enough not to read between lines avoiding that way stirring up flames further. Like that already didn't happened.*
It would serve as sense of progression with Ash and his story moving somewhere as result of that. Not staying exact same static character who constantly is stuck in loop of regression and repetition.
Also act of winning something big for once would have send out message out there how all his hard work, inspiration he draw from other trainers and people(including his friends), pokemon he caught, all kind of strategies and training he adopted. Various failures and triumphs growing and learning from them were not done in vain. Amounting to something that will pay of eventually. But none of that happened.
Only problem with this lies in fact of that being self contained ending of self contained saga which had no connections to history and past adventures Ash went through whatsoever.
Did it acknowledge Ash journey through Kanto, Johto, Hoenn or Sinnoh? Were his downfalls and hardwork recognized. Were his older friends and pokemon which played major role in shaping his character and identity as trainer to become person he was in XY ended up being brought up and respected for their contribution?
Or impact left on story, let alone their own unfinished storylines and loose ends?
None of plot holes, unresolved stories , relationships etc accumulated and created in 20 years of pokemon journey were brought up and resolved with Kalos sagas.
In essence not providing conclusion and natural wrap up of things for anime as whole.
Likewise Ash growth and development when we just put XY series in equation didn't received ending neither. Considering entire agenda and motivation behind Ash even traveling to Kalos hasn't been met at all, Since Ash strongly decided how its now or never that he finally wins league during time continuity still existed.
Serena future and development was left up in the air not really giving satisfying conclusion.* Team Rocket and entire organization had no real ending at all.
With entire journey leaving more things unfulfilled than not.
Most importantly you cannot end entire anime journey and its 20 years by attempting to resolve only plotlines and subplots contained solely for one saga(being XYZ)while leaving everything else blatantly ignored and forgotten like it never happened, like its not worthy to receive chance to shine ion supposed finale giving them resolution too.
Even more so if anime you written for during all this years was always presented as one entity, Big overlapping story set in same timeline and universe which continuously builds on itself and goes forward. With past serving important part in its elements being used to help make new challenges and plots while adding to anime as whole identity and foundation to lie upon.
It can invoke emotion, but can it recreate exact same atmosphere and genuine moments people experienced when watching Os and having fond memories of it?
I would say no.
Everything nostalgic and characteristic for pokemon is contained in main anime 20 years of history and its roots.
You cannot invoke nostalgic feelings among audience through different characters and alternate universe protagonists who do not carry same feelings, emotions, personalities and experiences which perpetuated original Ash, Misty, Brock, Gary etc.
Problem with this movie is that it comes of as hypocritical in several fields. It tries to forget history ignoring anime 20 years of history by doing reboot, alternate universe which was supposed to have no connection to original universe telling its own original story.
Yet they borrow and copy elements from original Kanto series as nostalgia attempt to attract older generations of fans toward this movie too through false hype and mislead, ambiguous info.
But by doing such thing can this movie even be considered as nostalgic? When its not acknowledging pokemon past or honoring roots and those who defined it. They are through this movie only copying iconic and recognizable scenes from original universe through entirely different character who carries Ash name and face but has nothing of original Ash substance in itself.
They are replicating some scenes and*rewriting roots without having any decency to do throwback to original series, characters and past from which they borrowed elements to begin with.
If this movie was set as entirely different and original story having no connection to original universe scenes, plot and agenda it tried to reach. I would have no problems with it.
But trying to do both, recreating nostalgia through copying iconic moments from OS without even acknowledging source from where it came , set at same time selling to viewers how this movie is showing entirely new, never seen before story comes of as dishonest and disrespectful insulting people memories and intelligence.
Either go all in for completely different universe and story with no strings attached to previous universe. Or do proper hoino0r of anime roots and past going down the way Yugioh, Dragon Ball or Digimon for example did. Not shunning away from your work older classic characters who were major part of that.
Doing something in between undermines this movie credibility cresting unneeded and convoluted mess.
It tried to advertise itself that way and sell people naive picture of this being special project honoring show roots, Ash special bond with Pikachu and history.
But in end did it succeeded in any of that?
Knowing how 20 years of anime history and development never happened in this alternate universe. This Ash and Pikachu not being same ones millions*of fans grew up with trying to replicate emotion and significance of that moment through doppelgangers packed nicely in rushed and in many ways contrived based on summaries storyline.
You be the judge.
Because this movie stayed true to what it promoted with trailers and news as anniversary concept only by its name. But nothing else.
Instead of retelling and AU they could have dedicate anniversary movie to special story which commemorates 20 years of series existence respecting its beginnings and past. Gathering Ash with Misty and Brock telling untold story they experienced first time when exploring Kanto region. Seeing Ho-oh but never being revealed this huge secret until 20 years later.
That way both we would get fresh new material to look forward to rather than just retelling, while those in charge could play on nostalgia cash cow all they want. Being guaranteed that many of older fans who don't even watch pokemon anymore would rush in to watch this movie to relieve their childhood memories and see characters they became fond of again.
Whoever idea it was in trying to do something in between was a very bad one with result and outcomes having yet to be seen.
Yet it included exact same scenes in announcements like OS had. Same logo, Ash encounter with Spearow, Ash swimming in river encountering Gyarados, capture of classic Kanto pokemon like Charmander, Caterpie and half assed copy of Metapod evolution in Butterfree*was included in this movie, just like they were in original anime.
Making people allured and mislead in believing this movie was gonna be set in same universe as main anime including beloved and classic older characters.
It was production team fault for making fans tricked like that* building up hype and excitement. Just to later reveal how as either lack of originality or blatant disrespect in movie with alternate reality which was supposed to depict "new Ash" in different surrounding, different roots and original storyline.
They borrowed and copied exact same scenes and elements from original Kanto series, but at same time removed 90% of everything which build and represented Kanto saga in first place.
That's not neither original or creative storytelling.
At very least anime would than stay faithful to its purpose and message it wanted to promote in first place. Being actual anniversary movie nurturing roots and foundations on which whole series were built in first place.
Now its none of that as explained above being one huge cluster****.
And was there even need for AU movie or was that what people wanted? Judging by reactions and huge division in fandom i would say NO.
Two wrongs do not make something right. Constantly playing with what was established as canon in series changing it like caprice child randomly and depending on mood only defeats point which anime tried to accomplish within storyline you as writer introduced in first place. Destroying plot, dropping in water accumulated knowledge and experience with show starting to look like joke, with no importance or identity.
Reflecting on popularity, reputation and people interest negatively.
Because basis for good storyline is consistency, balanced storyline and continuity.
Changing continuously this things only further damages show filling it with plotholes existing on every step. And lot of mess parallel universe brings, something which is unneeded.
Just when i thought this movie couldn't be any worse than it was already. I find out that Ash in this movie is worse version of his original self. To actually hear how he treated his pokemon and disrespected him is mindboggling and completely out of character.
Even at his most arrogant and conceited state in OS, Ash would've never lash out at his pokemon for losing battle, let alone wish not to have certain specie in first place desiring someone else.
Otr huge ego acting like Ho-oh is his pokemon basically.
This movie not only managed to devalue and disdain everything which used to define pokemon series and roots(by forcing two random characters instead of iconic ones in it;it was completely unnatural to see Makoto And Soji being Ash "first companions" and disrespectful toward Misty and Brock with this attempt to retcon and rewrite history, but Gary too who received such minor role that he was completely irrelevant)).
But it also went steps further in damaging identity and image main protagonist always promoted around himself for 20 years in pokemon.
"Well done production team, well done".
On side note it amazes me how low standards pokemon fandom has being willing to accept literally anything. Mainly referring to people on serebii, but this forum has good share of such fans as well. Pinning everything wrong about this movie on: "its AU so its perfectly fine whatever happens".
Not seeing anything wrong in plot of this movie, shallow message its trying to send and ways characters are depicted. It wouldn't surprise me that they would be defending this movie even if Ash was portrayed as mass murderer of humans and pokemon. Through comments like: "Ash is so badass, he's great. This is so original" etc.
What's interesting the most is that many are liking it solely because Misty and Brock are not part of it(as long they're not there, they don't care what kind of plot it has), which says ALOT about hatred they hold for this two characters.
Even at his most arrogant and conceited state in OS, Ash would've never lash out at his pokemon for losing battle, let alone wish not to have certain specie in first place desiring someone else.
Otr huge ego acting like Ho-oh is his pokemon basically.
This movie not only managed to devalue and disdain everything which used to define pokemon series and roots(by forcing two random characters instead of iconic ones in it;it was completely unnatural to see Makoto And Soji being Ash "first companions" and disrespectful toward Misty and Brock with this attempt to retcon and rewrite history, but Gary too who received such minor role that he was completely irrelevant)).
But it also went steps further in damaging identity and image main protagonist always promoted around himself for 20 years in pokemon.
"Well done production team, well done".
On side note it amazes me how low standards pokemon fandom has being willing to accept literally anything. Mainly referring to people on serebii, but this forum has good share of such fans as well. Pinning everything wrong about this movie on: "its AU so its perfectly fine whatever happens".
Not seeing anything wrong in plot of this movie, shallow message its trying to send and ways characters are depicted. It wouldn't surprise me that they would be defending this movie even if Ash was portrayed as mass murderer of humans and pokemon. Through comments like: "Ash is so badass, he's great. This is so original" etc.
What's interesting the most is that many are liking it solely because Misty and Brock are not part of it(as long they're not there, they don't care what kind of plot it has), which says ALOT about hatred they hold for this two characters.
And now the response:
I can assure you that people would be more keen on hearing classic story again if it was done in proper way. Not omitting 2/3 of who formed that story in OS. This being movie about Ash and Pikachu strength of relationship doesn't hide fact that surrounding and other characters played role in influencing those iconic moments and characterization of main protagonist himself being part of that classic storyline.
By removing them your doing disservice to OS legacy, disrespecting older fans, devoid kids of knowing what was true history and roots. And at same time through this bipolar byproduct called anniversary movie which tries both to be nostalgic and tell completely different story acting as full reboot insulting foundations on which franchise was born(since anime did played big role I creating positive reputation and image of pokemon as whole, especially in beginning).*
As for original universe not getting conclusion diluting same protagonist in multiple in carnations of his former self. Your not only destroying image that same protagonist established around himself. But pillars of entire theme and message this series promoted ever since they started.
Recent news about movie and how shitty Ash was toward his pokemon(Pikachu) muds on image original version of himself used to have.
Not even counting massive loss of interest among fans from various generations(both young and older)who waited for years to receive gratification. In form of sensible, good ending.
Keeping same protagonist with no personality, emotion, experiences and depth original one had defeats purpose of reboot. Undermining its strength and direction writers are attempting to go with such project.
If they're trying to go for reboot at least stay consistent with theme by replacing Ash as well instead of mudding his legacy and identity through using cheap copy of his former self.
Needless to say it would be only fair, considerate and respectful to first tie loose ends, unfinished storylines and the4mes started in original universe and main series. Bringing everything to an end eventually, regardless of some like you being tired of original Ash and this universe.
Before even considering option of doing reboot, let alone carrying it in reality while spitting directly in face of legacy older characters and plots from original universe left behind themselves.
Or to be more precise first clean mess in your own backyard before going on something else.
Popular? It literally broke fandom dividing them in such way, that its almost like it was when Misty was replaced splitting original trio (you guys should have been present online when that happened).
In that case your well aware of consequences and how such things can quickly go down south.
So sound director, Rica Matsumoto, logo, manga and on top of that fact that in ending credits for anniversary movie SM characters were on purpose excluded don't ring a bell to you?
Ash not interacting with Team Rocket could also come from fact that Ash in different universe didn't had especially negative encounters with TR in beginnings like original Ash did with their conflict and*rivalry happening later on.
I mean its no definite proof that anniversary movie and SM anime belong in separate universe. But writers and directors with eradication of continuity, flashbacks and any valuable mention, let alone return of characters from past series surely are not helping this to clear up either.
Giving reason to doubt if they are trying to slipom under radar how full fledged reboot happened . Counting on fanbase being dumb enough not to read between lines avoiding that way stirring up flames further. Like that already didn't happened.*
It would serve as sense of progression with Ash and his story moving somewhere as result of that. Not staying exact same static character who constantly is stuck in loop of regression and repetition.
Also act of winning something big for once would have send out message out there how all his hard work, inspiration he draw from other trainers and people(including his friends), pokemon he caught, all kind of strategies and training he adopted. Various failures and triumphs growing and learning from them were not done in vain. Amounting to something that will pay of eventually. But none of that happened.
Only problem with this lies in fact of that being self contained ending of self contained saga which had no connections to history and past adventures Ash went through whatsoever.
Did it acknowledge Ash journey through Kanto, Johto, Hoenn or Sinnoh? Were his downfalls and hardwork recognized. Were his older friends and pokemon which played major role in shaping his character and identity as trainer to become person he was in XY ended up being brought up and respected for their contribution?
Or impact left on story, let alone their own unfinished storylines and loose ends?
None of plot holes, unresolved stories , relationships etc accumulated and created in 20 years of pokemon journey were brought up and resolved with Kalos sagas.
In essence not providing conclusion and natural wrap up of things for anime as whole.
Likewise Ash growth and development when we just put XY series in equation didn't received ending neither. Considering entire agenda and motivation behind Ash even traveling to Kalos hasn't been met at all, Since Ash strongly decided how its now or never that he finally wins league during time continuity still existed.
Serena future and development was left up in the air not really giving satisfying conclusion.* Team Rocket and entire organization had no real ending at all.
With entire journey leaving more things unfulfilled than not.
Most importantly you cannot end entire anime journey and its 20 years by attempting to resolve only plotlines and subplots contained solely for one saga(being XYZ)while leaving everything else blatantly ignored and forgotten like it never happened, like its not worthy to receive chance to shine ion supposed finale giving them resolution too.
Even more so if anime you written for during all this years was always presented as one entity, Big overlapping story set in same timeline and universe which continuously builds on itself and goes forward. With past serving important part in its elements being used to help make new challenges and plots while adding to anime as whole identity and foundation to lie upon.
It can invoke emotion, but can it recreate exact same atmosphere and genuine moments people experienced when watching Os and having fond memories of it?
I would say no.
Everything nostalgic and characteristic for pokemon is contained in main anime 20 years of history and its roots.
You cannot invoke nostalgic feelings among audience through different characters and alternate universe protagonists who do not carry same feelings, emotions, personalities and experiences which perpetuated original Ash, Misty, Brock, Gary etc.
Problem with this movie is that it comes of as hypocritical in several fields. It tries to forget history ignoring anime 20 years of history by doing reboot, alternate universe which was supposed to have no connection to original universe telling its own original story.
Yet they borrow and copy elements from original Kanto series as nostalgia attempt to attract older generations of fans toward this movie too through false hype and mislead, ambiguous info.
But by doing such thing can this movie even be considered as nostalgic? When its not acknowledging pokemon past or honoring roots and those who defined it. They are through this movie only copying iconic and recognizable scenes from original universe through entirely different character who carries Ash name and face but has nothing of original Ash substance in itself.
They are replicating some scenes and*rewriting roots without having any decency to do throwback to original series, characters and past from which they borrowed elements to begin with.
If this movie was set as entirely different and original story having no connection to original universe scenes, plot and agenda it tried to reach. I would have no problems with it.
But trying to do both, recreating nostalgia through copying iconic moments from OS without even acknowledging source from where it came , set at same time selling to viewers how this movie is showing entirely new, never seen before story comes of as dishonest and disrespectful insulting people memories and intelligence.
Either go all in for completely different universe and story with no strings attached to previous universe. Or do proper hoino0r of anime roots and past going down the way Yugioh, Dragon Ball or Digimon for example did. Not shunning away from your work older classic characters who were major part of that.
Doing something in between undermines this movie credibility cresting unneeded and convoluted mess.
It tried to advertise itself that way and sell people naive picture of this being special project honoring show roots, Ash special bond with Pikachu and history.
But in end did it succeeded in any of that?
Knowing how 20 years of anime history and development never happened in this alternate universe. This Ash and Pikachu not being same ones millions*of fans grew up with trying to replicate emotion and significance of that moment through doppelgangers packed nicely in rushed and in many ways contrived based on summaries storyline.
You be the judge.
Because this movie stayed true to what it promoted with trailers and news as anniversary concept only by its name. But nothing else.
Instead of retelling and AU they could have dedicate anniversary movie to special story which commemorates 20 years of series existence respecting its beginnings and past. Gathering Ash with Misty and Brock telling untold story they experienced first time when exploring Kanto region. Seeing Ho-oh but never being revealed this huge secret until 20 years later.
That way both we would get fresh new material to look forward to rather than just retelling, while those in charge could play on nostalgia cash cow all they want. Being guaranteed that many of older fans who don't even watch pokemon anymore would rush in to watch this movie to relieve their childhood memories and see characters they became fond of again.
Whoever idea it was in trying to do something in between was a very bad one with result and outcomes having yet to be seen.
Yet it included exact same scenes in announcements like OS had. Same logo, Ash encounter with Spearow, Ash swimming in river encountering Gyarados, capture of classic Kanto pokemon like Charmander, Caterpie and half assed copy of Metapod evolution in Butterfree*was included in this movie, just like they were in original anime.
Making people allured and mislead in believing this movie was gonna be set in same universe as main anime including beloved and classic older characters.
It was production team fault for making fans tricked like that* building up hype and excitement. Just to later reveal how as either lack of originality or blatant disrespect in movie with alternate reality which was supposed to depict "new Ash" in different surrounding, different roots and original storyline.
They borrowed and copied exact same scenes and elements from original Kanto series, but at same time removed 90% of everything which build and represented Kanto saga in first place.
That's not neither original or creative storytelling.
At very least anime would than stay faithful to its purpose and message it wanted to promote in first place. Being actual anniversary movie nurturing roots and foundations on which whole series were built in first place.
Now its none of that as explained above being one huge cluster****.
And was there even need for AU movie or was that what people wanted? Judging by reactions and huge division in fandom i would say NO.
Two wrongs do not make something right. Constantly playing with what was established as canon in series changing it like caprice child randomly and depending on mood only defeats point which anime tried to accomplish within storyline you as writer introduced in first place. Destroying plot, dropping in water accumulated knowledge and experience with show starting to look like joke, with no importance or identity.
Reflecting on popularity, reputation and people interest negatively.
Because basis for good storyline is consistency, balanced storyline and continuity.
Changing continuously this things only further damages show filling it with plotholes existing on every step. And lot of mess parallel universe brings, something which is unneeded.
