Review M20: I Choose You!

[sc190191]

I haven't seen this yet, but I heard the English dub opening theme remix, and I have to say its a lot worse than the remix from XY they used in the Diancie movie. Too bad they already used that one...

 

[Twilight-Kun]

I really don't understand people's hatred for the Kalos/M20 rendition of the Pokémon Theme

Never knew Nostalgia Goggles came with headphones

 

[Charmander4]

I really don't understand people's hatred for the Kalos/M20 rendition of the Pokémon Theme

Never knew Nostalgia Goggles came with headphones

Ah, one of you guys who can’t fathom that someone just might hate the crap they do today because it’s awful. “Oh no it’s just genwunners being nostalgic like lol”

 

[Jaypom]

Ah, one of you guys who can’t fathom that someone just might hate the crap they do today because it’s awful. “Oh no it’s just genwunners being nostalgic like lol”

whats bad about it?

 

[Neo Blaze]

I really don't understand people's hatred for the Kalos/M20 rendition of the Pokémon Theme

Never knew Nostalgia Goggles came with headphones

Not everyone dislikes the newer version because of nostalgia. Saying that is just as closeminded as saying the newer versions suck just because they do not live up to the original version by Jason Paige. I do have nostalgic feelings for the original and I really hated the XY version but mainly because I just thought it sounded really really bad in my opinion as an opening song in general. I liked the M20 version however. This should go without saying, but everyone has different tastes and preferences and it's not very helpful to say that everyone who doesn't like the newer version has nostalgia goggles/headphones on.

Ah, one of you guys who can’t fathom that someone just might hate the crap they do today because it’s awful. “Oh no it’s just genwunners being nostalgic like lol”

Likewise, you're generalizing just as badly here. And nowhere in his post did Twilight-Kun use the term "genwunner" so you should not put words in his mouth. Besides that, judging from your previous posts you seem to have a hard time accepting that anyone likes the TPCi dub or anything associated with it, so I'm not sure why you are accusing people like that.

Anyways guys, this is getting off-topic so I suggest to get back on track and discuss the movie in a civil manner.

 

[NeoMiniTails]

I watched the movie again with my baby brother. I liked it even more. As for the theme song, my little brother and I liked it a lot.

Admittedly, I didn't care for the XY cover of the song as it sounded like any ole cover on YouTube with less than stellar vocals.

The new one, though, felt like a mix of Jason Paige and Billy Crawford version, both of which I loved. I also liked that the new movie theme (like the original theme) sounds (in my opinion) like Ash is singing.

 

[BigDocFan]

Just curious, what do people think of Sam Black's Metapod voice

Sadly we didn't hear much of it to comment on but there is another Pokemon he voices

 

[technickal]

While I didn't mind the XY version at all, it was nice to hear a more faithful rendering of the theme for the anniversary. But the original will always have a special place in my heart, of course.

Just curious, what do people think of Sam Black's Metapod voice

Sadly we didn't hear much of it to comment on but there is another Pokemon he voices

Same hilarious robotic voice as ever. I remember hearing a couple of theater-goers chuckling at it.

 

[Gabo2oo]

If that is true about Charmander, this movie needs to burn. Nobody, nobody comes anywhere close to Michael Haigney who is Charmander’s original VA. It was bad enough he got voiced by a rapist. Now we have Bill Rogers. Yuck.

The fact you're clinging onto someone's work to compare him with a rapist is disgusting.

 

[NeoMiniTails]

The fact you're clinging onto someone's work to compare him with a rapist is disgusting.

I understand loving the original dub because one's grown up on it, but to pretend it was perfect and unmatched, that's ridiculous. @Charmander4

The only thing about 4Kids I miss would be the VAs for Team Rocket. The series has and will continue to strive without them.

It was part of Pokemon's wonderful history in the English speaking countries, but honestly, why do people keep trying to resurrect a dead horse?

It honestly sounds stressful to worry about how to bring back 4Kids VAs, knowing full well that its never coming back.

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

I understand loving the original dub because one's grown up on it, but to pretend it was perfect and unmatched, that's ridiculous.

The only thing about 4Kids I miss would be the VAs for Team Rocket. The series has and will continue to strive without them.

It was part of Pokemon's wonderful history in the English speaking countries, but honestly, why do people keep trying to resurrect a dead horse?

Well, for one thing, the TPCi dub is actually now worse about replacing the Japanese music than 4Kids dub was (yes, XY and SM dubbed are worse about it than 4Kids was in AG). So by your logic, the current TPCi dub is perfect and unmatched to the point that people can bash the old 4Kids dub, while ignoring and/or lying about things like this?

Considering the fact that TPCi kept only 1 of 55 pieces of Japanese music in the Movie 20 dub here, whereas 4Kids kept 54 out of 54 pieces of the Japanese music in the Movie 8 dub, which is from AG no less...the hypocrisy and flat-out lies people have stated on at least the music front is appalling, to be honest, you can't dispute TPCi messed up on at least that front here with the "I Choose You" dub.

The fact that TPCi now have 4 dub music exclusive scored Movies now, all being the last several since Diancie to this one, as opposed to 4Kids, who had only the first 3, is utterly disgraceful from the former considering what they had spokesman Lawrence Neves had said back in 2006 when they took over the dub with the fact they promised faithful scripts/episode titles and most of the Japanese music back then, and lied about all of that (go look up WaterPokemonMaster and Toonzone's archives for proof).

This is the sort of thing that makes my respect for the dub close to zero, not to mention giving Veronica Taylor a huge middle finger by not giving her a chance to reprise Ash when she's always been begging for it (before you say anything, I realize she's not entitled to it, but they could've tossed her a bone for a remake of OS, same goes for Zagnit as Oak etc. too).

And the current dub is just as flawed on the whole, too: how about the recent SM dub episodes where TPCi censored Meowth drowning and dying twice...or the times they have called apples "berries" and peas/carrots "veggies" being their "jelly-donut/sandwich" equivalents? Or how about when they now erase every instance of kanji in the XY and SM dubs whereas they didn't used to do that back in DP and BW dubbed, in addition to even 4Kids leaving in trace amounts of kanji at random times in both OS and AG dubbed vs. XY and SM dubbed?

A lot of the things I notice people pretend only 4Kids dub (edits, Americanization, script changes, etc.) did were/are also 100% done in the TPCi dub as of now, which shows the double standard I have continuously noticed in the fandom on the dub.

And while TPCi may not edit as much as 4Kids did visually speaking, the quality of their voice acting, scripts, and music are absolutely questionable like their predecessors were, and I'd argue the dub is genuinely worse off now than we were under 4Kids, at any point, on the whole.

I'm not delusional enough to think the 4Kids VAs are coming back at all, that ship sailed ages ago, but he's fully entitled to liking the old 4Kids dub more, and I share in his sentiments on it for the most part.

P.S. I liked all of 4Kids' handling of the main characters' VAs better than TPCi's, not just Team Rocket: go ahead and bash me for having an opinion with genuine reasoning behind it, please. If you disagree, that's fine, but don't act like there weren't pros to the 4Kids dub besides TR, because I think there were several.

 

[NeoMiniTails]

I never said TCPi is perfect and the almighty dub. No one's claimed that. I literally said pretending it was "perfect and unmatched" is ridiculous.

Btw, I enjoyed the dubbed score. It kept the emotions intact. Both times, I watxhed it, I loved not only the script but the score. I can definitely dispute that. You, however, can feel differently. That's fine. It's your opinion.

The problem is people go to great lengths to talk about something that is never gonna happen. Why should VT be brought back?

The only thing it would cause is a fanwar of people claiming the movie was good because of her.

Veronica Taylor is a fantastic VA, as proof by her resume and being selected to play Sailor Pluto on the new dub for the legendary series Sailor Moon.

The series wouldn't be where it is if it hadn't been for its beginning, but 4Kids is over and done with.

Its like my uncle who is a few years older than me who is always talking about FoxKids and how it needs to come back for the kids.

Why do fans keep trying to resurrect it? Be happy that the first 50 episodes are going to be on Blu-ray for the first time. Enjoy it, love it, and treasure it, but for those who enjoy TCPi, let them do the same.

Btw, I enjoy both 4Kids and TCPi though both pale in comparison to the Japanese version. Scriptwise, the newer company tends to keep it mostly intact.

 

[GuyWhoTellsTruth]

Btw, I enjoyed the dubbed score. It kept the emotions intact. Both times, I watxhed it, I loved not only the script but the score. I can definitely dispute that. You, however, can feel differently. That's fine. It's your opinion.

The problem is people go to great lengths to talk about something that is never gonna happen. Why should VT be brought back?

The only thing it would cause is a fanwar of people claiming the movie was good because of her.

Veronica Taylor is a fantastic VA, as proof by her resume and being selected to play Sailor Pluto on the new dub for the legendary series Sailor Moon.

The series wouldn't be where it is if it hadn't been for its beginning, but 4Kids is over and done with.

Its like my uncle who is a few years older than me who is always talking about FoxKids and how it needs to come back for the kids.

Scriptwise, the newer company tends to keep it mostly intact.

What I am trying to tell you is just because you "enjoy" the dub score doesn't make it okay for TPCi to replace the Japanese music for the Movie itself- it's disrespectful to composer Shinji Miyazaki to do that to his work on a 20th Anniversary Film on the company's part, frankly, not to mention a lot of the music they replaced like Spearow Attacks was kept even in the AG Anime dub by 4Kids no less in its original form pre-remix, in this SM era dub Movie: the fact you can't dispute I'm trying to posit, is that TPCi is worse about the actual replacement of the Japanese music itself than 4Kids was in terms of the amount overhauled, yet I see the AG dub put down mindlessly with zero logic on that front, when the XY and SM dubs are 100% worse about that- that's a fact, not opinion.

What you are saying is something subjective I could say, like I "enjoy" the dub music used in Movie 3's dub for example, but that doesn't make it okay for there to be dub music there, at all. The quality of the dub music itself is absolutely subjective, no doubt, but how much itself is replaced, isn't.

As for Veronica Taylor, I feel she should've at least been brought back for a retelling of the Original Series in this one Movie, even if this one diverges a bit from Episode 1, considering she was the voice of Ash for the Original Series' original run dubbed, and the first 3/4 of Advanced Generation- it feels like an penultimate slap in the face to the past itself to me, when TPCi disrespect the very people that as you said, made the dub what it was with the old saga.

This is not a knock against Sarah Natochenny etc. (though I have given the dub cast a chance for 11 years now, and still do not like the current dub's voice acting, which is why I watch the Japanese Version much more often nowadays), but rather, TPCi (the company) disrespecting the dub's very roots to me.

All of this being said, I do really appreciate you saying a nice thing about Mrs. Taylor on a side note, though, rare to see that in the fandom these days- thank you for that.

And trust me, we already have enough fan wars on pretty much every site (not just here) when there are 4Kids vs. TPCi vs. Original Japanese Version discussions: some abhor the 4Kids dub, some abhor the TPCi dub, some abhor the Japanese Version, some hate either dub, or both dubs, or the Anime/Movies in general even in Japanese, be it on YouTube, Twitter, here, Serebii, you name it. Hence, I doubt bringing Taylor (or any of the old dub VAs) back just one time for this Movie, would've made things any better/worse on that front: on just Ash (not talking about any other characters), you'll see Taylor vs. Rogers vs. Natochenny vs. Matsumoto compares for Ash, where it's a never ending war in the comments section between all sides. "Nostalgiafag," "newfag," "genwunner," "newgenner," among other insults thrown on all sides there. I hate the wars, too, and wish we could all respect each other's opinions, but it seems our fandom has grown as volatile as those like Sonic and Dragonball's- it's very sad.

And script wise, I feel the "newer" (current) company isn't any better than 4Kids really, on it: for one thing, their Team Rocket is even more divergent and harder to understand than the 4Kids TR, and there's tons of copious slang, rhymes, and catchphrases they introduced to the dub themselves like, "Down the hatch" and "So psyched" they shove down characters' throats, not in the Japanese Version.

I feel the TPCi dub script has its own issues like the 4Kids dub script did, but I'd argue the current dub's scripting is actually slightly worse somehow, since the phrasing of the dialogue is so unnatural and it feels awkward with lines like "Yo ho, Ho Oh," "I'm not a noob," etc. and it comes across as an elderly man trying to be hip with the younger generation to me.

I realize 4Kids is long gone and all, but still, that doesn't excuse TPCi from actually making the dub's music replacing situation worse on practically every front (and heck, the TV Openings/intros are objectively shorter in length than the 4Kids ones for TPCi still, despite the move to Disney XD when Beyblade & Yokai's dub OPs are way longer than 30 seconds on the same station: that is not really excusable), still editing/Americanizing things long after 4Kids left, or the rewriting of the scripts and episode titles as divergent as "Party Dancecapades," "Yo Ho Ho, Go Popplio," "Young Kiawe Had a Farm," and such, or hipster lines like "Furshonista," "Cutier pie," etc.

TPCi has shown in the past that they can and should do a better job with the dub. For instance, compare their early BW dub to now, and it's sad how far their dub has declined in quality since then: night and day difference, frankly.

If the dub was even close to that good now, I would give it a chance, but given the way TPCi's dub is now, I just don't feel inclined to watch more of it. I genuinely think 4Kids did a better job overall with the dub, despite their dub's own problems, at this point- won't knock you if you disagree, but this is just my two cents.

 

[Johtohfiller]

I saw this last night, first time I've seen a Pokemon movie at a theater. It was...better than I expected! I was afraid of it being thoroughly meh but I ended up enjoying it. It comes across a lot better onscreen than reading a plot summary - it's better than the sum of its parts.

Missed the first few minutes, but I've seen the first episode plenty of times so I figure I didn't miss much. Were there any major differences?

The Characters of the Movie weren't bad, although with the exception of Cross I don't think they gave them enough to do. My impressions:

Verity really does seem like Not Misty, with a bit of Serena and/or Lillie (mommy issues). She could have been Misty without changing much.

Sorrel actually seemed original rather than a copy of someone else. I liked his sad backstory (though it was weird that Ash and Verity didn't seem sad at all hearing it). I'm surprised that his Lucario didn't do much though, considering what a hypemon it is.

Cross is like an even edgier Paul crossed (haha) with an asshole jock from an 80s movie, with a voice similar to Gary's. He worked pretty well as a villain, I don't think the usual sorts of villains we get in the movies would have fit the story as well.

I loved Bonji. Part of that is because his voice reminded me of Stuart Zagnit's Prof. Oak voice, my favorite voice in the franchise, and I like how he looks like a dwarf or gnome. He deserved WAY more screentime, they should have introduced him a lot earlier. At least they gave him a great monologue after the climax.

Team Rocket got screwed over. Couldn't they have at least fought with Ash once?

That dream scene of Ash in our world might have been the best part. I'll probably make another post about it later, suffice to say for now that it was one of the most intriguing scenes ever done in the anime.

Marshadow was cool in concept but the execution could have been a lot better. I think what was going on at the end was that Cross intended to kill Ho-oh and that was more evil than Marshadow could handle, driving him mad. It wasn't really clear though.

Pikachu speaking human actually didn't bother me in principle - Ash understanding Pika-speak in a crisis moment doesn't seem too farfetch'd to me. I need to hear it in Ohtani's voice, though.

The music...well, it was better than the dub tv music, I'll give it that. Some of the fight music actually had a Japanese sound. Still doesn't hold a candle to Miyazaki's music, and seeing Pikachu defend Ash from the angry Spearow without Tears After the Cloudy Weather just felt wrong.

The visuals were great though, can't fault the movie there. The scene where Butterfree left looked spectacular with those sunset colors.

My biggest complaint...the movie needed more time. They tried to cram in more story than could easily fit in an hour and a half, and the pacing suffered. I wish they'd given it a full 2 hours. They could have given Bonji and TR more screentime, worked the beast trio into the plot (I didn't like how Suicune and Raikou only got short cameos), and given a clearer explanation of Marshadow's role.

Where the movie did excel was providing an overview of what Pokemon is like. The atmosphere and themes of the series were strongly present, despite the weaknesses with the story and pacing. And not just Kanto; it had the feel of the series as a whole. Ash's portrayal fit with that, coming across as a combination of early Ash and later Ash. I'd recommend this movie to anyone who's not familiar with Pokemon but wants to get a taste of what it's about.

Could have been better, but could have been a lot worse. I'm looking forward to watching it again in Japanese, wish I could have seen it that way on the big screen.

 

[NeoMiniTails]

What I am trying to tell you is just because you "enjoy" the dub score doesn't make it okay for TPCi to replace the Japanese music for the Movie itself- it's disrespectful to composer Shinji Miyazaki to do that to his work on a 20th Anniversary Film on the company's part, frankly, not to mention a lot of the music they replaced like Spearow Attacks was kept even in the AG Anime dub by 4Kids no less in its original form pre-remix, in this SM era dub Movie: the fact you can't dispute I'm trying to posit, is that TPCi is worse about the actual replacement of the Japanese music itself than 4Kids was in terms of the amount overhauled, yet I see the AG dub put down mindlessly with zero logic on that front, when the XY and SM dubs are 100% worse about that- that's a fact, not opinion.

What you are saying is something subjective I could say, like I "enjoy" the dub music used in Movie 3's dub for example, but that doesn't make it okay for there to be dub music there, at all. The quality of the dub music itself is absolutely subjective, no doubt, but how much itself is replaced, isn't.

As for Veronica Taylor, I feel she should've at least been brought back for a retelling of the Original Series in this one Movie, even if this one diverges a bit from Episode 1, considering she was the voice of Ash for the Original Series' original run dubbed, and the first 3/4 of Advanced Generation- it feels like an penultimate slap in the face to the past itself to me, when TPCi disrespect the very people that as you said, made the dub what it was with the old saga.

This is not a knock against Sarah Natochenny etc. (though I have given the dub cast a chance for 11 years now, and still do not like the current dub's voice acting, which is why I watch the Japanese Version much more often nowadays), but rather, TPCi (the company) disrespecting the dub's very roots to me.

All of this being said, I do really appreciate you saying a nice thing about Mrs. Taylor on a side note, though, rare to see that in the fandom these days- thank you for that.

And trust me, we already have enough fan wars on pretty much every site (not just here) when there are 4Kids vs. TPCi vs. Original Japanese Version discussions: some abhor the 4Kids dub, some abhor the TPCi dub, some abhor the Japanese Version, some hate either dub, or both dubs, or the Anime/Movies in general even in Japanese, be it on YouTube, Twitter, here, Serebii, you name it. Hence, I doubt bringing Taylor (or any of the old dub VAs) back just one time for this Movie, would've made things any better/worse on that front: on just Ash (not talking about any other characters), you'll see Taylor vs. Rogers vs. Natochenny vs. Matsumoto compares for Ash, where it's a never ending war in the comments section between all sides. "Nostalgiafag," "newfag," "genwunner," "newgenner," among other insults thrown on all sides there. I hate the wars, too, and wish we could all respect each other's opinions, but it seems our fandom has grown as volatile as those like Sonic and Dragonball's- it's very sad.

And script wise, I feel the "newer" (current) company isn't any better than 4Kids really, on it: for one thing, their Team Rocket is even more divergent and harder to understand than the 4Kids TR, and there's tons of copious slang, rhymes, and catchphrases they introduced to the dub themselves like, "Down the hatch" and "So psyched" they shove down characters' throats, not in the Japanese Version.

I feel the TPCi dub script has its own issues like the 4Kids dub script did, but I'd argue the current dub's scripting is actually slightly worse somehow, since the phrasing of the dialogue is so unnatural and it feels awkward with lines like "Yo ho, Ho Oh," "I'm not a noob," etc. and it comes across as an elderly man trying to be hip with the younger generation to me.

I realize 4Kids is long gone and all, but still, that doesn't excuse TPCi from actually making the dub's music replacing situation worse on practically every front (and heck, the TV Openings/intros are objectively shorter in length than the 4Kids ones for TPCi still, despite the move to Disney XD when Beyblade & Yokai's dub OPs are way longer than 30 seconds on the same station: that is not really excusable), still editing/Americanizing things long after 4Kids left, or the rewriting of the scripts and episode titles as divergent as "Party Dancecapades," "Yo Ho Ho, Go Popplio," "Young Kiawe Had a Farm," and such, or hipster lines like "Furshonista," "Cutier pie," etc.

TPCi has shown in the past that they can and should do a better job with the dub. For instance, compare their early BW dub to now, and it's sad how far their dub has declined in quality since then: night and day difference, frankly.

If the dub was even close to that good now, I would give it a chance, but given the way TPCi's dub is now, I just don't feel inclined to watch more of it. I genuinely think 4Kids did a better job overall with the dub, despite their dub's own problems, at this point- won't knock you if you disagree, but this is just my two cents.

I understand your frustration but complaining about music being replaced is literally saying, "I want Goldfarb out of a job." He needs to pay his bills too. Lol.

I agree with many of your points.

I just think always comparing something to the past will make fans never enjoy what's there.

Always worrying about what could've been or how another company would do something is just sort of stressful and pointless.

 

[Peppermint Phoenix]

I think people are overlooking how much more stuff happens in this movie compared to other pokemon movies.

 

[Pkmndub]

I think Those Miyazaki tracks probably cost the company a ton in royalties. They are the classic songs after all, so they'd be more expensive then let's say, Sun and Moon's music.
No @SkyWarriorT , they are not trying to be disrespectful. They either pay how much they have to pay (which is probably once again, a lot), or do their own thing, which is the cheaper option.

Also, John Loeffler and Koch Records owns the 4kids tracks. They can't use those either.

 

[RetroPokeFan]

I think Those Miyazaki tracks probably cost the company a ton in royalties. They are the classic songs after all, so they'd be more expensive then let's say, Sun and Moon's music.
No @SkyWarriorT , they are not trying to be disrespectful. They either pay how much they have to pay (which is probably once again, a lot), or do their own thing, which is the cheaper option.

Also, John Loeffler and Koch Records owns the 4kids tracks. They can't use those either.

Isn't Koch Entertainment One now?

 

[Pkmndub]

Yeah but when they do Pokemon songs they still go under Koch, as I found out from a few copyright claims

 

[Waterpopplio]

Welp, the whole Pikachu speaking English (or other languages for that matter) fiasco now has a hashtag on Twitter called:
#Pikagate !
I mean, COME ON MAN!‍
It's just a sad scene!
Just take a chill pill people!
That's why Arlo said that Nintendo, Pokemon Company, and Game Freak are the kings of left field!


View: https://youtu.be/k_oiwHLkbv0

And It was a packed house in New York where the reactions happened!
They were like, Da Heck?, Whaaaaaaaaa?, and NO!