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Mafia Philosophy

After Laughter
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Ever since I started playing in larger games where third parties are more prominent, I've made a clear distinction between "third parties" and "independents." Third parties include roles like Cults and Serial Killer, whereas independent includes Jester and Survivor, among other more obscure rules like the recently used Vote Complex. The one role I can see fitting both categories is Lyncher.
 
Fire Chicken
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Ever since I started playing in larger games where third parties are more prominent, I've made a clear distinction between "third parties" and "independents." Third parties include roles like Cults and Serial Killer, whereas independent includes Jester and Survivor, among other more obscure rules like the recently used Vote Complex. The one role I can see fitting both categories is Lyncher.
I didn't make a distinction before but I can see one now. However I believe that Lyncher is only a pure independent.
 
Fire Chicken
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1. Forum Rules and War Room Rules always apply.
2. Day phases will last 48 hours and Night phases will last 24 hours, unless phases get shortened as discussed in rule 9. Votes and actions will be locked as soon as the deadline for each phase passes. Votes/actions at :00 count, those at :01 don't. If the host(s) are sure that they won't be able to update, they may extend the phase in question straight from the beginning.
3. Please be active. You may be subbed out if you haven't made a game-relevant action for 72 hours. If no sub is available to take your place, or you keep not performing game-relevant actions for the next 72 hours, you may be modkilled. The aforementioned deadlines may be shortened on the host(s)' discretion, in case where waiting for that long would disrupt game integrity too much.
4. Nameclaiming isn't allowed. No quoting or screenshots of any conversation with the host. This includes exact wincon wording and posting fake data that supposedly comes from said sources.
5. If you change your username mid-game, please state your old and new ones in-thread and mention the host(s).
6. To vote, use the following format: "VOTE: <PLAYER>". To unvote, use "UNVOTE: <PLAYER>". A tie in the plurality of votes will result in No Lynch.
7. Rules are subject to change. The host(s) will make sure to mention you if that happens. Your Role PM may also list exceptions to any of these rules.
8. No loophole abuse at all, please. You may ask the host(s) if a specific action you are unsure over would be considered a loophole in private and they may let it slide. However, obvious loopholes that are clearly outside the nature of the game abused without informing the host(s) beforehand may be faced with a zero-tolerance policy.
9. For non -LO day phases, HYPER-MAJORITY rules are in place. This means that if, at any given time in such a Day phase, at least 2/3 of the players alive are voting for the same person, the phase will end early with a lynch on that person.
-LO day phases (in which town's lynch decision may lead to them losing the game before the next day phase begins) will be announced. Details on the nature of the -LO state will be given in the Day phase update. MAJORITY rules are in place for said phases. This means that if, at any given time in a Day phase, more than 1/2 of the players alive are voting for the same person, the phase will end early with a lynch on that person.
Day phases may also end sooner if all the players alive are voting for a player or No Lynch.
Night phases may also end sooner if people with night actions lock their submissions in a way that leads to an inevitable outcome.
10. Outside communication (that is, communication that occurs outside of this thread) is permitted. Please make sure to include us in any OC chats you may have during the game.
11. After dying in the game, you may post more but said posts may not contain game-relevant information.
12. If the game has no deaths for 4 consecutive phases because of continuous No Lynches in the day phases followed by factions with kills purposely idling them in the night phases, or if the game has reached a stalemate state, the game will end as a tie for the parties involved.
13. The most important rule. Have fun!
 
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Fire Chicken
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Rule 1 now says "always apply". Just to make clear that Forum Rules/War Room Rules can't be overrun by exceptions the host(s) may list. The War Room Rules themselves also state that Forum Rules come first.
Rule 2 brings up the exceptions on rule 9.
Rule 3 is the most major change; the common 72 hour deadline rule all over TWR is applied, although in some games this is just too long and may cover several phases, so they may be shortened at the host(s)' discretion.
Added that ties in the plurality of votes result in No Lynch in Rule 6 (the one regarding votes). Forgot that part, better safe than sorry so I included it.
Added that Role PMs may list exception to any of the rules in Rule 7 (the one regarding potential rule changes). This covers possibilities like Spy results being share-able, any sort of official OC being allowed in NOC games and maybe more. Just a convenient rule that means exceptions can be listed in role PMs than the main ruleset so as to not hint at potential rules each time I'd have to change something.
Changed capitalization of HYPER-MAJORITY to the variant I tend to use more in phase updates. Also added a rule that night phases may end early if all night actions are locked in place.
Finally, added a rule about posting while dead since I forgot that too.

More changes to the standard ruleset because the games that got completed had some interesting situations that revealed flaws in the rules:

Defining -LO situations:
First of all I'm no longer calling them -YLO as that's technically incorrect. MILO and the new LYSLO I'm about to introduce don't end in -YLO.

MILO (Mislynch and Lose): If town lynches incorrectly this phase, they may lose the game.
LYLO (Lynch and Lose): If town doesn't lynch correctly this phase, they may lose the game.
LYSLO (Lynch Yet Still Lose): Even if town does lynch correctly this phase, they may still lose the game.

Artemis Fowl's latest days were LYSLO because of the Kingmaker indep and RM2's Day 7, had the mafia attempted to kill either the 1x Deathproof or the 1x Bulletproof, would've been LYSLO as well.
-LO situations won't be announced in open and semi-open setups since you already have the info to deduce if the game could be in a -LO situation by yourselves. this will also make my life easier for Shop Mafia as you'll soon see

Changes to day phase shortening rules:
Plain HYPER-MAJORITY no longer cuts it. In -LO situations HYPER-MAJ can be pro-scum as scum may never be able to be HYPER-MAJd without bussing while town can be hammered on to end games. As a result I'm now going to use regular MAJORITY for my -LO phases only.
Another addition here is that if every single player in the game has placed a vote the phase will still end sooner; this prevents phases like forced ties (Artemis Fowl Mafia) from dragging on.

No deaths for 4 phases = tie rule:
This also has a major flaw which I realized in RM2. Let's say we were in a 3-3 scenario with Mafia 1x Lynch Redirector and 1x Strongman used up:

1x Deathproof Neighbor + Miller Neighbor 1x Bulletproof + 2x Commuter VS 3 scum

In this case scum should've won already, however just because they may get unlucky with kills early on the 4-phase rule might've triggered and make it a tie, which is just unfair for scum because in infinite phases they still win this. As a result the rule is now redesigned:

If the game has no deaths for 4 consecutive phases because of continuous No Lynches in the day phases followed by factions with kills purposely idling them in the night phases, or if the game has reached a stalemate state, the game will end as a tie for the parties involved.

Finally, because this is getting more and more complicated, I'll have my standard ruleset posted alongside a "DEVIATIONS FROM MY STANDARD RULESET:" part at the end of the rules, at least for games I'll be hosting by myself.
 
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Vee Vee Eeeeveee!
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Quick question:

First, what does everyone think about wincon changing roles? I know it'd be bastard, but I'm wondering what people think of them, Such as cultist.

What do you think about a game themed around a wincon changing role?
Reposting this.
 
Fire Chicken
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Wincon changing roles are bastard. Other than that they are nice to have around but they're quite game centralizing, you need to build balance around them.

I like games with conversions personally and have hosted one (Survival Game, Mirai Nikki mafia) as well as trying to host another (WC III)
 
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As you say, changing wincons is definitely bastard.
Roles like Cultist need to be very, very carefully balanced.
I gave some of my thoughts on this subject in this post here: Role of the Week

They can be implemented in games, as long as they are carefully balanced.
 
Fire Chicken
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I would add that because of how centralizing they are I always find a way to make sure they don't get wasted as that would be huge swing, The Cult Leaders of Mirai Nikki were Day 1 unlynchable and had night action top priority, it was impossible for them to not act at least n1.

My Mafia Converters will tend to have the clause of auto activating on someone upon the death of the person who has them if they die before they get to use them.

This certainty applies to other roles I consider to be of top importance. Examples include the clause that prevented mafia from killing their traitor in RM and the mafia 1x Lynch Redirectors of Holiday and RM2, first case it had infinite Bulletproof second it just wasn't needed.
 
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Vee Vee Eeeeveee!
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What I meant with the second is question is I had this idea for a game

A mafia game where there is no mafia... Instead, 2 or 3 players (depending on balance) start as cultists, get a factional kill that converts instead of killing. Players that are converted have their wincon changed, but are not added to the QT.

It is towns job to remove the original 2/3 players (known by character name) before all the town members have been converted.
Lynching removes a player from the game, but converting does not, and a converted player is not public announced (Just that there was a successful conversion)

Writing it down, I'm not entirely sure if its a good game idea, but I'll post it anyway to see what people think
 
Fire Chicken
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Wincon changed to what? Anyway if you want that info revealed you get a bastard open setup which is a cool concept.

It is balanceable, I haven't figured the numbers yet but it can work
 
Vee Vee Eeeeveee!
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Wincon changed to what? Anyway if you want that info revealed you get a bastard open setup which is a cool concept.
Not sure... I posted everything that has formed in my mind to the last post, except the working name.
It is balanceable, I haven't figured the numbers yet but it can work
Hmm... If you think it could work, I'll give it some more thought.
 
Hermit Who Passes Through Walls
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The wincon of the originals and the converted players would obviously be to have only cult members in the game, no?

On a semi-related note, I saw an interesting mechanic in a game elsewhere which had one anti-town role that if killed, had a fixed number of resurrection opportunities into a set pool of players, passing along abilities and wincon (in the game in question, to be the last alive). That general idea is something worth exploring, I think.
 
Vee Vee Eeeeveee!
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1. Forum Rules and War Room Rules always apply.
2. Day phases will last 48 hours and Night phases will last 24 hours, unless phases get shortened as discussed in rule 9. Votes and actions will be locked as soon as the deadline for each phase passes. Votes/actions at :00 count, those at :01 don't. If the host(s) are sure that they won't be able to update, they may extend the phase in question straight from the beginning.
3. Please be active. You may be subbed out if you haven't made a game-relevant action for 72 hours. If no sub is available to take your place, or you keep not performing game-relevant actions for the next 72 hours, you may be modkilled. The aforementioned deadlines may be shortened on the host(s)' discretion, in case where waiting for that long would disrupt game integrity too much.
4. Nameclaiming isn't allowed. No quoting or screenshots of any conversation with the host. This includes exact wincon wording and posting fake data that supposedly comes from said sources.
5. If you change your username mid-game, please state your old and new ones in-thread and mention the host(s).
6. To vote, use the following format: "VOTE: <PLAYER>". To unvote, use "UNVOTE: <PLAYER>". A tie in the plurality of votes will result in No Lynch.
7. Rules are subject to change. The host(s) will make sure to mention you if that happens. Your Role PM may also list exceptions to any of these rules.
8. No loophole abuse at all, please. You may ask the host(s) if a specific action you are unsure over would be considered a loophole in private and they may let it slide. However, obvious loopholes that are clearly outside the nature of the game abused without informing the host(s) beforehand may be faced with a zero-tolerance policy.
9. For non -LO day phases, HYPER-MAJORITY rules are in place. This means that if, at any given time in such a Day phase, at least 2/3 of the players alive are voting for the same person, the phase will end early with a lynch on that person.
-LO day phases (in which town's lynch decision may lead to them losing the game before the next day phase begins) will be announced. Details on the nature of the -LO state will be given in the Day phase update. MAJORITY rules are in place for said phases. This means that if, at any given time in a Day phase, more than 1/2 of the players alive are voting for the same person, the phase will end early with a lynch on that person.
Day phases may also end sooner if all the players alive are voting for a player or No Lynch.
Night phases may also end sooner if people with night actions lock their submissions in a way that leads to an inevitable outcome.
10. Outside communication (that is, communication that occurs outside of this thread) is permitted. Please make sure to include us in any OC chats you may have during the game.
11. After dying in the game, you may post more but said posts may not contain game-relevant information.
12. If the game has no deaths for 4 consecutive phases because of continuous No Lynches in the day phases followed by factions with kills purposely idling them in the night phases, or if the game has reached a stalemate state, the game will end as a tie for the parties involved.
13. The most important rule. Have fun!
Zexy, with your permission, I'd like to make this the standard ruleset for AussieEevee games too.

Also, do we really need to state that TWR/BMGf rules always apply? I mean, that should be common sense IMO.
 
The Sobbley Trainer
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Also, do we really need to state that TWR/BMGf rules always apply? I mean, that should be common sense IMO.
Just like the Loophole abuse rule, of course it is common sense. But sadly enough there'll always be those that forget to use it if it isn't stated explicitly on a paper.
 
Fire Chicken
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@AussieEevee Of course. At this point I'd like to remind everyone that the first thing I said when I started discussing my standard ruleset here is that I'm just bringing it up for anybody to use; I don't do it in my capacity as staff, I definitely don't attempt to force anybody to use it or require permission from others to do so. I bring it up so that I can receive feedback and people who are interested in a ruleset that has gone through lots of edits because of several past loopholes don't have to come up with everything by themselves.

The number 1 rule of host rules should indeed be that forum rules and War Room rules always apply, as that's indeed the first thing that is true for all games. I don't believe it is redundant.
 
Vee Vee Eeeeveee!
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Thanks.

The number 1 rule of host rules should indeed be that forum rules and War Room rules always apply, as that's indeed the first thing that is true for all games. I don't believe it is redundant.
I do because that's like going to a restaurant (in Australia) and having the first rule of their list of rules being "All Australian laws apply"... You're within the F&G/TWR forum, so naturally its rules still appear. TWR is within the BGMf forum, so naturally its rules still apply.

Just my 2 cents anyway.
 
Fire Chicken
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Just a point about my standard ruleset, as it's been brought up a few times in Baccano! Mafia.

Roleclaiming IS allowed. You should not assume that anything more than what is stated in the rules is not allowed. I don't think there is a need to include "Roleclaiming is allowed." as a part of the rules, "Nameclaiming isn't allowed." should be enough.
 
Spiders!
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On any side, I try to stay out of the spotlight and instead pick holes in other people's softclaims. distracting people with ideas on other people's alignment and role. I'm not one for voting.
Basically, stay unnoticed, stay alive, and help my side if I'm an important role.
 
Fire Chicken
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But staying alive isn't enough to win as town, you need to find the mafia and eliminate them. Not voting tends to be considered a very scummy thing anyway so it gets called out often.
 
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