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Mafia Mafiaholics Anonymous Game Over: Funnier is Dead

What? This is definitely just different philosophies on mafia, but town SHOULD self-preserve? Because if you are lynched than you KNOW a mafia isn't lynched.

The town wins when the mafia are eliminated. Don't get me wrong, I want to stick around just as much as the rest of you, but the end result that we as town are trying to reach is where all of the mafia are eliminated. There are very few circumstances when lynching a townsperson is a good thing. I don't want to lynch town, but there is a chance that it could happen.

It's to this point that I overgeneralized. Vanilla Townies shouldn't self-preserve; rather, they should faction-preserve. Unless they are on-the-money with all of their reads, to which point it's impossible to tell until the first flip, there is no reason why a VT is more valuable than anybody else in the town. Sure, it makes sense for town PRs to self-preserve, as it gives them more opportunities to get information. However, VTs should not try to preserve themSELVES, but instead preserve town, because they still win as long as the mafia are lynched in the long-run.

And no, I'm not saying that mislynches are good. I'm just saying that VTs have no reason to plea "don't lynch me", because they are, dare I say, "expendable" (to a point), whereas the mafia and town PRs are not.
 
Generally speaking as a vanilla townie you'd rather the death of any other player than yourself, since any other player has a much higher chance of being mafia, and the death of a mafia is worth a lot more to town than the death of a power role is to mafia.

thats my take anyways. Its probably true that in practice some gamestates justify sacrifice, but thats probably more often true for scum than for town (where bussing is a legitimate maneuver).

Vanilla townies also probably generally rather the death of themselves over the death of any other town player, although the lynch doesn't exclusively target town-players so vanilla townies should probably self-preserve wrt the lynch.
 
The town wins when the mafia are eliminated. Don't get me wrong, I want to stick around just as much as the rest of you, but the end result that we as town are trying to reach is where all of the mafia are eliminated.
It's to this point that I overgeneralized. Vanilla Townies shouldn't self-preserve; rather, they should faction-preserve. .
Bold of you to claim Hamtaro is a vanilla townie and the win con you claimed doesn't match my own win con.

Vote: ExDark
 
Generally speaking as a vanilla townie you'd rather the death of any other player than yourself, since any other player has a much higher chance of being mafia, and the death of a mafia is worth a lot more to town than the death of a power role is to mafia.

Alright. I do agree with you here, and I can see what you mean by this. In the eyes of one VT, that player and that player alone is 100% confident they are town, because they received the role. My opinion is, rather than have all of the townies know that they are town and try to get everybody else eliminated (because they know that if everybody else is eliminated, then the town wins (because they know they themselves were town)), I believe that townies need to be aware of the fact that they don't need to reach the endgame to win, which is why I placed my vote on Hamtaro. The mafia strictly needs to be alive at the end of the game to win it, and because there are only 3 of them, each one of them is a hot commodity in their faction, and needs to figure out how not to be lynched. The town on the other hand just needs to exist at the end of the game. It doesn't matter who it is, or what roles they have.

Sorry if it makes it seem like I support town-sacrifice. There is not a single player in this game who would benefit from being lynched. (Jester wya?). Town sacrifice is almost never a valid strategy when compared to mafia bussing, where the high-risk of the play puts the mafia in a good light. Even lynching a VT puts town at a disadvantage. But, in a completely vanilla round, there is no reason for one VT to be alive over another VT in the case of a mislynch. Lynching the mafia every day would be the most hoped for outcome, but a win with 2 townies remaining counts just as much as a win with 6 townies remaining.

Bold of you to claim Hamtaro is a vanilla townie

I never claimed that Hamtaro was a vanilla townie. I'm just saying that a VT doesn't need to campaign for their own survival compared to everybody else's. I don't even know the entire setup. To that effect, it's the beginning of D1. Nobody should be campaigning for their own survival until the votecounts get tight.
 
Day 1 Vote Count 2
Day 1 Vote Count

Lynch Me (3) (SSL, Evenstar, Hamtaro)
funnier (1) (MafiaExponent) :ugh:
Evenstar (1) (mafiosloth)
funnier 1-5 (1) (defnotafunnieralt)
Hamtaro (3) (LynchMe, ExDark, funniers 1-5)
ExDark (1) (TNaSK)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to reach majority. Otherwise day ends on Monday the 13th at 7 pm CST.

About 20 ish hours left
 
I believe that townies need to be aware of the fact that they don't need to reach the endgame to win, which is why I placed my vote on Hamtaro.

No, I do NOT believe that Hamtaro is town, I just combined these two thoughts. Townies don't need to reach the endgame to win, but the mafia basically does. Hamtaro asking people to spare him, joke or no, is not something that a townie would do out of the gate. I am not trying to simply "teach a lesson".

But I feel bad for going on and on without giving Hamtaro a chance to defend themselves, so I'm going to wait to see what they have to say about my logic.
 
No idea why you keep mentioning vanilla town, unless you're saying you are?
You also didn't address the fact that I claimed your win con claim is different from my own.
You seem to think Hamtaro is Mafia for something they said as a joke during the first half of D1, I swear if you actually end up being Ex I wouldn't be surprised.
 
Can't believe you all started a wagon on the cutest player of the game, surely you all are jealous of my cuteness.

Out of the three people on the hamtaro wagon, two have given some reason no matter how bizarre they may be.
LynchMe confessed theirs was a rvs vote and ExDark had their own reasons, but funniers 1-5 gave no reason and looked like sheeping and jumping on the bandwagon.

Unvote
Vote: funniers 1-5


I am cute, don't lynch me.
 
So, there was no guilty? That's fair enough, but I'm still going to keep my vote there because of:

Did you really think there would be a day cop that got a guilty result right out the gate?

Seems kind of like reaching to say you originally believed a guilty result then backpedal and say you're keeping your vote anyway because of something that was a joke.

Town really doesn't need to say "don't lynch me", regardless of if this post was a joke or not. If you are town, then you don't need to be alive to win; so, it doesn't matter if YOU make it to the end of this, as long as there are townspeople left when the mafia are defeated. Town attempts at self-preservation are not wanted.

I disagree with this and your whole vanilla thing wholeheartedly. (I also think TotallyNotaSK looks pretty good for pointing out the vanilla thing.)

The only person you can trust 100% in this game is yourself. So therefore you know basically any other person's lynch is better than yours (except in certain circumstances like vengeful, etc). True, most of those other people are also townies, but the should be of the same mindset and therefore also willing to self preserve. You're probably one of those people who also thinks town shouldn't say they're town when talking about reads.

Fact is, wording like that doesn't really catch scum as much as people think it does. It's just as likely for town to say "don't lynch me" as it is for scum.

Unvote

Vote: Exdark


It's not so much the difference in philosophy as it is it felt you needed to find some reason to keep your vote on Hamtaro after already weak reasoning with the guilty.
 
Day 1 Vote Count

Lynch Me (2) (SSL, Evenstar)
funnier (1) (MafiaExponent) :ugh:
funnier 1-5 (2) (defnotafunnieralt, Hamtaro)
Hamtaro (3) (LynchMe, ExDark, funniers 1-5)
ExDark (2) (TNaSK, mafiosloth)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to reach majority. Otherwise day ends on Monday the 13th at 7 pm CST.

There is a very good chance I will not be around to end day until eight so it'll be twilight until I can get around to it.
 
Could you do me a favor and quote the post that caused you to unvote from SSL? Was it because of their posting restriction, or something else?
Correct, it was because of the post restriction. My initial vote was because of the exact repetition. I now know why it is that's happening, so there's no reason to keep that vote.

I’m a right sock. Because I’m right about who’s scum. And Mafia Exponent is definitely scum.
Of course, we all know that real socks can go on either foot, so it doesn't matter...
Vote: Lurking til Endgame
FoS: funniers 1-5
 
And no, I'm not saying that mislynches are good. I'm just saying that VTs have no reason to plea "don't lynch me", because they are, dare I say, "expendable" (to a point), whereas the mafia and town PRs are not.
Only indeps save jester lose upon death. Mafia win if their team win save for traitors. Mafia not being expendable seems like a slip. In fact mafia being expendable is more common than town, which is how we get bussing.

Either way no townie is expendable. Losing one townie is a loss for town period. Every loss brings mafia closer to winning, especially if non have been lynched. Every vote is a vote to help lynch mafia. Townies should always fight to survive since a mislynch will always be bad no matter the town role.
Can't believe you all started a wagon on the cutest player of the game, surely you all are jealous of my cuteness.

Out of the three people on the hamtaro wagon, two have given some reason no matter how bizarre they may be.
LynchMe confessed theirs was a rvs vote and ExDark had their own reasons, but funniers 1-5 gave no reason and looked like sheeping and jumping on the bandwagon.

Unvote
Vote: funniers 1-5


I am cute, don't lynch me.
Same reason as voting mafiosloth. You were second on my list.
Correct, it was because of the post restriction. My initial vote was because of the exact repetition. I now know why it is that's happening, so there's no reason to keep that vote.


Of course, we all know that real socks can go on either foot, so it doesn't matter...
Vote: Lurking til Endgame
FoS: funniers 1-5
Is this serious or joking?
 
Only indeps save jester lose upon death. Mafia win if their team win save for traitors. Mafia not being expendable seems like a slip. In fact mafia being expendable is more common than town, which is how we get bussing.

Either way no townie is expendable. Losing one townie is a loss for town period. Every loss brings mafia closer to winning, especially if non have been lynched. Every vote is a vote to help lynch mafia. Townies should always fight to survive since a mislynch will always be bad no matter the town role.

Same reason as voting mafiosloth. You were second on my list.

Is this serious or joking?
It's joking yeah.
 
Generally speaking as a vanilla townie you'd rather the death of any other player than yourself, since any other player has a much higher chance of being mafia, and the death of a mafia is worth a lot more to town than the death of a power role is to mafia.

thats my take anyways. Its probably true that in practice some gamestates justify sacrifice, but thats probably more often true for scum than for town (where bussing is a legitimate maneuver).

Vanilla townies also probably generally rather the death of themselves over the death of any other town player, although the lynch doesn't exclusively target town-players so vanilla townies should probably self-preserve wrt the lynch.
By the way....

This isn’t repeating what someone said. Thus they don’t have a post restriction. Thus they lied. Lying about a post restriction is pointless and anti town.

Unvote: Hamtaro
Vote: SexyScumLord
 
Hamtaro is probably ExLight, keep an eye on him.

I don't like ExDark's reasoning.
Too many people are still on joke votes.

Vote: ExDark
 
Unvote

Vote: ExDark


Clarify me if I'm wrong, but the thing Hamtaro said that you are going on about happened during RVS right?
 
Rise and Shine, Ursine!

Alright, let's see what's been popping in the thread while I've been gone...

No idea why you keep mentioning vanilla town, unless you're saying you are?

Vanilla townies make great examples.

You also didn't address the fact that I claimed your win con claim is different from my own.

I don't know who you are beneath the sock, but you clearly are pressing the discussion with you saying (in my words) "I'm voting you because, here's the kicker, the mafia does not need to be defeated for me to win". You're probably some non-lethal third party like a survivor or something, who could win with either faction. I'm not voting for you because that's obviously what you want me to do, or else you wouldn't have claimed that you didn't have the town wincon. Because you can't be the mafia, and you can't be the town... am I getting somewhere here?

You seem to think Hamtaro is Mafia for something they said as a joke during the first half of D1, I swear if you actually end up being Ex I wouldn't be surprised.

:confused:

Did you really think there would be a day cop that got a guilty result right out the gate?

No. It's always a good idea to support gambits in my book, no matter how unlikely it may seem. Unless it's a gambit that would hurt the town.

The only person you can trust 100% in this game is yourself.

Agree.

So therefore you know basically any other person's lynch is better than yours (except in certain circumstances like vengeful, etc).

Disagree. Let me quote my post first before I continue:

Sorry if it makes it seem like I support town-sacrifice. There is not a single player in this game who would benefit from being lynched. (Jester wya?). Town sacrifice is almost never a valid strategy when compared to mafia bussing, where the high-risk of the play puts the mafia in a good light. Even lynching a VT puts town at a disadvantage. But, in a completely vanilla round, there is no reason for one VT to be alive over another VT in the case of a mislynch. Lynching the mafia every day would be the most hoped for outcome, but a win with 2 townies remaining counts just as much as a win with 6 townies remaining.

Now, I'm going to imagine that there is a town of 9 players, and 2 of the 9 are mafia. Everything is vanilla for all tense and purposes. Now, let's say that a mislynch D1 is inevitable. Not a great spot to be in, but I digress. 4 of the players believe that one of the VTs are a part of the mafia; however, the player knows that they are not. What are they going to do, say "don't lynch me"? No, that's not a good defense, and doesn't say anything about why lynching them is a bad idea. While they know that they are town, everybody else does not, which makes everybody else wrong, (besides the mafia). If you are going to defend yourself from being lynched, defend yourself well. Being lynched is NEVER a good thing for you or your faction unless you're a jester. Because of this... there is no reason to say "don't lynch me", and especially not "you'll regret it". There is no substance to the defense, and is only said in a last plea of desperation for preservation. This is what I was referring to. It is fine to give reasons why you shouldn't be lynched... right before you are lynched, to see if you can change town's mind. There is no reason to open out of the gate with "i shouldn't be the one to die", because newsflash: somebody will, and they definitely don't want that to happen. It just put a bad taste in my mouth, but I think I'm done explaining my mafia philosophies.

I will be removing the vote soon because this lynch can be saved for later, and many people seem to be adamantly disagreeing with me. I'm probably on a wild goose chase, so I'm going to step back in the case that I am tunneling. Keep in mind that I still don't like this slot.

True, most of those other people are also townies, but the should be of the same mindset and therefore also willing to self preserve.

Self-preservation shouldn't be the founding strategy for one's game. Not all of the town is going to make it to the end. The mafia will be killing every night, and if somebody gets NK'ed, then that hope will be cut short. A VT should be more bummed if a town cop got NK'ed rather than if they did, imo. With that being said, the other town's people should not make their decision on who wants to stay in the game the least. The mafia can make the same appeal as a townsperson and say "please don't lynch me, I'm town", and your ideal townie would just say okay because they also want to self preserve. I think I am going to need to reiterate my four rules of mafia:

  1. The mod's reveals are the only given truths.
  2. The town's good posters result in night kills.
  3. The mafia's arguments are always fallacious.
  4. Everybody is town if you ask them.

A townie can have a good defense, and that is called self-preservation. There MUST be something wrong with a mafia's defense, or else it is non-existent. If you want to say that you should be in the game more than ANYbody else in that game of 9 people, then you better have a damn good reason to back it up.

You're probably one of those people who also thinks town shouldn't say they're town when talking about reads.

Hehe, how'd you know?

Fact is, wording like that doesn't really catch scum as much as people think it does. It's just as likely for town to say "don't lynch me" as it is for scum.

THIS is the point that I'm withdrawing my vote for, and also because I found a far better candidate for lynching.
 
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