Making the Unova League better

[Hidden Mew]

I'm so happy this thread exists. In my pc I have re-written every episode of BW(major events only tho) in the way I think they would be better. Best Wishes series had many awsome characters and plot but the writers didn't handle it good at all. If they would have handled it the way they handled DP, then BW would have been amazing. BW is one of my fav series so, here are some of my opinions on how BW could have been better:

- Cilan being a coordinator instead of a connosseiur, or even both given that they did nothing with his goal
- Cilan capturing Leavanny instead of Ash.
- All the rivals to have at least 5 pokemon
- The Unova Grand Festival could be held in the Decolore Islands, and that's why the gang travels to Kanto through the archipelago.
- N being a coordinator as well with Zoroark in his team.
- N winning the Unova Grand Festival.
- Jessie and Burgundy (and maybe Luke) also participate in the Grand Festival.
(The following event totally not happening but it's one of my favs)
- Iris defeats Drayden earning her 8th badge and qualifies to compete in the Unova League. She is the champion in the games in B2W2 so this is logical. In manga, she takes part in the league as well.
- Bianca facing Ash in the league.
- Iris loosing to Ash in top 16/8, Ash defeating Cameron and Bianca and loosing to Virgil.
- If Ash would loose to any of his rivals I would rather it be Bianca or Virgil and not Cameron.

I love the idea of Cilan and N being Pokemon Coordinators. I don't know if I could see N being in a competition if they were trying to adapt the B/W storyline, but it sounds neat. I'm not sure about Iris getting into the Unova League. I wouldn't want her to go through the same Gyms that Ash does. It could work if she got seven badges off screen and was working towards having a rematch against Drayden or something like that. If they didn't try so hard to make her look like a special gifted trainer, then I think it could work. I don't know about Ash losing to Bianca either. She would have to be a much different rival than she was in the series for that to feel believable. Virgil defeating Ash could work though.

 

[EscLucy]

I don't know if I could see N being in a competition

I agree. I think N's character just doesn't fit in a competition especially one with a large audience. I think his storyline shouldn't be tampered with. It was quite good actually but they should've explored it more.

. I don't know about Ash losing to Bianca either.

If Ash lost to Bianca, for me, that is worse than losing to Cameron. Tbh I didn't like Trip losing to Bianca in the battling but I found it hilarious in a non-battle way too because I hate Trip's character so much. Bianca doesn't appear too often and she is a side-rival, therefore it wouldn't make much sense to make her win, especially because Ash hasn't battled her a lot. The same could be said for Cameron but their rivalry did increase towards the end.

 

[SinnohEevee]

Would Contests have fit given they weren't in the games?
If so,ight as well keep Dawn.

 

[EscLucy]

Would Contests have fit given they weren't in the games?
If so,ight as well keep Dawn.

Even though my favourite character in the whole anime is Dawn, I don't think it would be right to keep her in the next region. I know that Misty did Kanto and Johto but something about Unova to me made me think that the characters needed to change.

I think that Contests could've worked seeing as there were only gym battles and sometimes a battling event but you don't know until you experience it. It would also depend on which character is doing it and whether character development was good. The anime has done Contests really well so I was sad to see it go, Showcases are awful. I think if we copy and pasted Iris from Dragon Master to contests, it wouldn't work 100%.

 

[Hidden Mew]

(Seriously, I will believe that Palpitoad only exists because the Rocket versus Plasma arc got canned and Ash was supposed to get Krokorok then until Shudo comes back from the dead and shows me otherwise. It explains frankly too much, from Krokorok's odd absence, the lack of use of the toad, and even what happened to Roggenrola's Stone Edge).

I'm not sure about that. Considering how long it takes to animate an episode, I'm not sure if they'd have enough time to rework those episodes to make sure that Ash captured a Palpitoad and Roggenrola instead. They were clearly planning on giving Ash more than six Pokemon for BW before the Team Plasma two parter was skipped. I suppose it wouldn't be impossible for them to give Ash those Pokemon if he was going to capture Krokorok during the Team Plasma two parter, but I just don't know how likely that explanation would be.

Would Contests have fit given they weren't in the games?
If so,ight as well keep Dawn.

That's exactly why they weren't featured in BW. Even though Contests had become a big element of the anime for around eight years, they couldn't keep them because they weren't featured in the games. It made sense given that the fifth generation was had a whole back to basics theme to it with the Gym quest being the only focus on the games and featuring new Pokemon right from the start, but it was a shame to lose Contests. The anime still hasn't found a good replacement for them and it does feel like they lost something important when they had to stop using Contests.

As for keeping Dawn, they didn't keep May around when the fourth generation kept Contests, so why would they keep Dawn around? She did have the most focus out of all of the female leads up to that point, but she is a fourth generation character. They would have replaced her with another Coordinator to market the fifth generation. That still would have been cool. If people can watch through multiple badge collecting journeys with Ash, then I don't think that a third Coordinator would have been a problem, especially when they could still give her a different storyline than what May or Dawn had.

 

[KrspaceT]

I'm not sure about that. Considering how long it takes to animate an episode, I'm not sure if they'd have enough time to rework those episodes to make sure that Ash captured a Palpitoad and Roggenrola instead. They were clearly planning on giving Ash more than six Pokemon for BW before the Team Plasma two parter was skipped. I suppose it wouldn't be impossible for them to give Ash those Pokemon if he was going to capture Krokorok during the Team Plasma two parter, but I just don't know how likely that explanation would be.


.

I said Roggenrola Stone Edge

Roggenrola started with Stone Edge, but lost it when it evolved. This happened around the time Krokorok, who was long shown to have the move, was captured. That is my theory.

 

[SinnohEevee]

Even though my favourite character in the whole anime is Dawn, I don't think it would be right to keep her in the next region. I know that Misty did Kanto and Johto but something about Unova to me made me think that the characters needed to change.

I think that Contests could've worked seeing as there were only gym battles and sometimes a battling event but you don't know until you experience it. It would also depend on which character is doing it and whether character development was good. The anime has done Contests really well so I was sad to see it go, Showcases are awful. I think if we copy and pasted Iris from Dragon Master to contests, it wouldn't work 100%.

The more Dawn, the better. Though I am happy she didn't stick as much as Ash and become a marketing tool.
I think they should have just replaced everywhere in BW and have gotten a new protag (maybe Hilda). The games were a soft reset (not even Pikachu is obtainable in them). But since they kept and will keep Ash, he has to become more generic.

 

[Hidden Mew]

The more Dawn, the better. Though I am happy she didn't stick as much as Ash and become a marketing tool.
I think they should have just replaced everywhere in BW and have gotten a new protag (maybe Hilda). The games were a soft reset (not even Pikachu is obtainable in them). But since they kept and will keep Ash, he has to become more generic.

All of the characters main characters are marketing tools though. Dawn didn't become the poster child of the anime like Ash and Pikachu are, but she was introduced primarily to promote the then new fourth generation. I still say that Pikachu not being available in the B/W games doesn't mean anything, especially when they made a big deal about older Pokemon returning in B2/W2 and I'm pretty sure Pikachu was included in those games too. Not featuring Pikachu was just a way to make B/W feel like a fresh start and make Unova more isolated from the other regions. Ash was far too established to be replaced by BW and I don't think that they'd have a female character replacing him. It sounds cool on paper, but from a marketing perspective, it might be kind of risky, if only for the notion that a lot of people have that a female lead means that the show is primarily aimed at girls.

 

[SinnohEevee]

1. Trip and Cameron shouldn't have existed. Bianca should have been Ash's main rival (or is this show too sexist for that?) and they should have used Cheren.
2. N should have been another rival for Ash who constantly challenges his ideals (like in the games).
3. Iris shouldn't be n the League as some suggested unless she managed to get his first 7 Badges off-screen but trying to muster the courage to fight Drayden, so that would require her actually being a serious Trainer.
4. Ash should not have been reset, and he should have ended up at least as a runner-up.
5. The executives shouldn't be Hell-bent on denying Ash the victory.

 

[LuxrayOfTheWild]

-While the rivalry was just poorly done, Ash and Trip should have still gotten a full 6 on 6 instead of an anticlimactic 1 on 1.
-GET RID OF THE AXEW FILLER. That episode was SO unnecessary and took away screen time for battles.
-Have Ash beat Cameron and actually battle Virgil and his Eeveelutions. Losing to a full team of cute Eeveelutions is better than losing to a moron who only brought 5 Pokemon to a full battle, and got an incredibly lucky evolution.

 

[Matleo]

- imagine Trip having a Zoroark in his team and using unortodox strategies fro the games.
Serperior with Glare, Dragon Tail(switching) and so on.

 

[EscLucy]

imagine Trip having a Zoroark

For a main rival, I would think that would be highly unlikely and I wouldn't appreciate it if he had one. It would almost be as worse as Cameron tbh.

 

[Matleo]

For a main rival, I would think that would be highly unlikely and I wouldn't appreciate it if he had one. It would almost be as worse as Cameron tbh.

for me not so bad, taking that we had Darkrai and Mega Charizard X lately.
And now Type:Null and its evo.
It would make the rival powerfull and allow the pokemon to show up and shine in battle a little.

 

[EscLucy]

It would make the rival powerfull and allow the pokemon to show up and shine in battle a little.

Yes, but it would also annoy viewers that some rivals got a legendary Pokemon. Tobias was a filler character to make Ash lose so they had to give him something where it would be clear he would win aka 2 legendaries. I think that having non-legendary, unique Pokemon that the writers rarely use would be more interesting because I would like to see how some Pokemon act in the anime. I think Alain had a Mega because it was introduced in that region so of course, they had to show it off. In my opinion, the anime could be interesting and powerful without the need for main characters to have legendaries.

 

[Matleo]

Yes, but it would also annoy viewers that some rivals got a legendary Pokemon.

for me Zoroark and Lucario are so much legendary like Arcanine and the pseudo-legendary dragons.

I think that having non-legendary, unique Pokemon that the writers rarely use would be more interesting because I would like to see how some Pokemon act in the anime. I think Alain had a Mega because it was introduced in that region so of course, they had to show it off. In my opinion, the anime could be interesting and powerful without the need for main characters to have legendaries.

Yes I also have this opinion, but they could use once such a pokemon with such a ability.
They did use Lucario, Arcanine, pseudolegendary dragons, on many occasions in the past.
If we count how many of each type and pokemon got screen time in the past , I bet Pikachu did the always the most.

Regular pokemon is one thing, but all pokemon deserve good treatment atleast in their generations or after them...
I would love a dark type gym leader with a Zoroark or a rival in the league, I would love to see more strategical battles with it and its ability in future.

Shedinja was not a legendary, but due to its ability was hidden like they are waiting for something to happen with it. In future...
Mimykyu is better handled in this generation.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

all pokemon deserve good treatment atleast in their generations or after them...

Zoroark

M13 - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

Getting a whole movie to itself is definitely more than enough 'good treatment' imo.

 

[Matleo]

Getting a whole movie to itself is definitely more than enough 'good treatment' imo.

compare it to Lucario if it comes to amount of gym and league battles...
3 gym battles, a league and got a mega....
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taking the main question further : Making the Unova League better,
makes wonder about also how other gym battles from past generations could have been done a little better? and other leagues?

not that ash would win everything? but some pokemons could have had more battles, wins and looses ?

Like in Kanto? should Ash have before league more rematches with Brock and Misty?

in Kalos? more 3vs3 for the gym leaders?
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Unova had the problem that not everyone liked the first gym.
Some gyms also didnt get the right pokemon, or right moves and battles... we want switching, immunities, abilities and effects like in Diamond and Pearl and gen 3.

Kalos did good but the bug gym feeled unfinished especially that people hoped to see "Powder" move and maybe a Fennekin vs Vivillion battle before that of Ash?
or a remath after more episodes with flethinder? maybe as the 5 gym?

the same with Grant, people hoped to get more pokemon and some fully evolved.
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[Peppermint Phoenix]

The simplest thing would be not skip any matches.

Seriously the had plenty of time like near Orange Island levels of time after the league before Gen VI but they went from the second round to the start of the fourth via a filler episode about Axew being lost? Seriously. That filler should of been cut or at least jammed between rounds if they need levity so damn much.

Now to get more creative. Make it double elimination. Unova was the first league outside of PokeJapan and they had plenty of time so, had resources and a good explanation to make the league longer. Now I would have liked Ash to do better but that wouldn't have been their vision so here's a compromise. Have Ash fail by losing to Cameron earlier say third round after beating Stephan but succeed by making to losers semis or losers finals and lose to Virgil. That way they actually get to use Park RangerMc EeveeMerch and Park RangerMc Eevee merch doesn't win the tournament (because why would Park Ranger be better than full time trainer!? >_<)!

They could give Bianca a little redemption by letting her clean house in loser beating Cameron, Trip or Stephen (Hell maybe all three). Thus giving Ash someone to fight before Virgil and letting him have closure with all three of his Unova rivals.

 

[EscLucy]

in Kalos?

I agree that the Kalos battles could've been more competitive but I think the aesthetics of the Kalos gyms in the anime were really really good.

makes wonder about also how other gym battles from past generations could have been done a little better? and other leagues?

But what you have got to remember is that all the leagues are different and it is a learning process for the writers on how to make it exciting for viewers which is why Kanto didn't have many rematches.

The simplest thing would be not skip any matches.

Agreed.

Now to get more creative.

Yeah, this is a good point, all of the leagues were the same and you knew what to expect. The contests were more dynamic because you had restrictions like you need one contest ribbon to enter this contest or this contest is a double battle and you need to have a certain amount of double flashy moves. Also, the way that coordinators qualified in the different Grand Festivals changed. Hoenn was point based decided by the judges and Sinnoh was plain judges' decision and furthermore, some were single others double.

 

[DragonKahuna]

Shoot me your ideas one of these days, I talk to some top debating types and work a neat retelling of the anime (with such unique things as Ash capturing Exeggutors and Ash being more than a packmule on Princess Day), but I do have a question.

Why Bianca so high up?

Bianca improved in the Clubsplosion, but it seems an odd choice to have her so high up compared to say, Stephan (who is my fav Unovan Rival), and no mention of Trip.

Also Cilan and Leavanny? Leavanny is a Pokemon I happen to like Ash having and Leavanny always gives a nice show when it did appear. Ash's Pokemon appearing more often is a problem I'd alleviate with a more redundant mon, like Palpitoad, before Leavanny.

(Seriously, I will believe that Palpitoad only exists because the Rocket versus Plasma arc got canned and Ash was supposed to get Krokorok then until Shudo comes back from the dead and shows me otherwise. It explains frankly too much, from Krokorok's odd absence, the lack of use of the toad, and even what happened to Roggenrola's Stone Edge).

Feel free to message me anytime and I would be happy to can discuss them.
Leavanny appears as an elegant pokemon, which I think would fit Cilan considering the way he behaves during certain situations. As for Bianca, she was the first female rival for Ash and I wanted a lot more from her. Maybe top 8 is too much, so all I would like for her is to had battled Ash in the league. And as for Palpitoad I agree. I still don't understand the reason why he caught it. There was no need for Palpitoad and even Roggenrola/Boldore on his team. (I like to think that he caught them and gave them away to Misty and Brock as a gift upon returning to Kanto )

I love the idea of Cilan and N being Pokemon Coordinators. I don't know if I could see N being in a competition if they were trying to adapt the B/W storyline, but it sounds neat. I'm not sure about Iris getting into the Unova League. I wouldn't want her to go through the same Gyms that Ash does. It could work if she got seven badges off screen and was working towards having a rematch against Drayden or something like that. If they didn't try so hard to make her look like a special gifted trainer, then I think it could work. I don't know about Ash losing to Bianca either. She would have to be a much different rival than she was in the series for that to feel believable. Virgil defeating Ash could work though.

To be honest, I also had second thoughts about making N a coordinator because it doesn't quite match up to his story, but I decided to because he is my favorite character from BW and I would like to have him involved in smth else other than Team Plasma.
According to the events I have made up for BW, Iris has won 7 badges off-screen and lost to Drayden pre-series. That's why she traveled to train and goes to rematch him and defeats him.
I just hate that Cameron won over Ash, with 5 pokemon in a full battle. Still think that Cheren would have been the best option for a rival in BW. He could loose to Cheren or Virgil.