Maps You Would Like to See Changed

[Bolt Strike]

Ever see an area in the games and wished it would have a different design or some kind of different environment/aesthetic? Discuss here what areas you would like to see changed and what ideas you would have to improve them.

Here are some of mine:

Spoiler: Design Changes for Kanto Areas

-Mt. Moon: Mt. Moon's design has kind of been all over the place because of how GSC's memory limitations ended up nerfing this area. But there's actually some good ideas in both and I'd like to combine them but with a bit of a modern twist. Maybe have a small entrance area from Rt. 3 and 4 similar to the GSCHGSS version, but then you could go deeper into the cave and have sort of a spiral design similar to the outside of Twist Mountain?
-Kanto Rt. 3 and Rt. 4: These are supposed to be fairly mountainous areas being near Mt. Moon, but due to the graphical limitations of the GB, they could only really show this by having tons of ledges. Now though, they can do better. Give them steeper cliffs and bridges that criss-cross over the lower paths like some of the mountainous routes in more recent regions.
-Kanto Rt. 7: Oh dear lord this route feels almost pointless. It's a 5 second walk between Saffron and Celadon with nothing else other than a small patch of grass and the Underground Path. This route needs to be lengthened. Badly. Maybe make the full route feel more like an urban forest park or something?
-Rt. 9 and Rt. 10: Similar to Rt. 3 and 4, these are mountainous areas that aren't very mountainous. Keep the ledge mazes on Rt. 9 but once again, include some changes in elevation and have some of the paths cross above.
-Rock Tunnel: Oh dear lord, the original design of this cave is soooo bad. You might not be able to tell when you're actually playing, but the ladders actually don't match up and so the area feels like that one Ranger Net mission in Shadows of Almia where a Palkia distortion warps you to random places. The HGSS design is better, but once again not enough elevation here (a common theme throughout Kanto). They should make this feel a bit more like Terminus Cave, with various mazelike paths, while still referencing the designs of the previous two versions wherever possible.
-Saffron City: Doesn't really feel like a proper metropolis, just a regular old city with the huge Silph Co. building. So first of all, I think they should divide this into districts like the metropolises in modern regions. Maybe they could have a shopping district that contains Silph Co., the Poke Mart and other shops, and maybe even a mid city connection to both Underground Paths which can now actually meet in the middle instead of completely passing each other somehow. They could have a battling district with the gym, the Fighting Dojo, a Battle Facility, maybe also a battle restaurant similar to the Lumiose City restaurants. Then they could have a transportation district with the Magnet Train and the Pokemon Center (which you can fly to)? Whatever the case, the city needs to be bigger and needs more to do, you'd barely be able to tell it's supposed to be the largest city in Kanto because Celadon is almost as big
-Kanto Rt. 16: Like Rt. 7, too short. Walk 5 seconds and you're already in Cycling Road. Maybe they could have it wind under Cycling Road and enter from the west instead of east? That would be cool.
-Kanto Rt. 18: Again, lengthen. Maybe play into the coastal theme a bit more and have seaside areas or beach dwelling Pokemon and trainers?
-Cinnabar Island: In RBYFRLG it was a fairly flat island, but then in GSCHGSS, suddenly there's a volcano that erupted? Having a legit volcano area would really add to Kanto's environmental diversity so why not actually do something with it. Have the city built (or rebuilt, if it takes place after GSC) at the foot of the volcano and make the volcano an actual, explorable dungeon.
-Kanto Victory Road: Aside from the boulder puzzles this is a pretty plain cave, especially for a Victory Road. Having the path weave in and out of the cave like later Victory Roads would really work well for this one, especially when there's Pokemon League architecture everywhere. They could also repurpose the right-side exit from RBYFRLGLGPE to mess with your expectations a bit, maybe you think that's the exit and you actually get there pretty quickly but nope, that's an outdoor section of Victory Road with much more to go. And maybe a second, cliffside outdoor area on the left side later in the area.

Spoiler: Design Changes for Johto Areas

-Rt. 33: Another lengthening candidate. Maybe make it a bit wetter and lush, maybe with puddles and overgrown grass since it's a rainy route near a forest and Bug type gym.
-Goldenrod City: Design wise Goldenrod is pretty fine, but aesthetic and functionality wise, Goldenrod feels more like a Western metropolis whereas the real life city it's inspired by, Osaka, is more multicultural and known for its shopping and food. The shopping part is covered with the Department Store and Game Corner, the food not so much. Maybe make the aesthetics more of a mix of traditional and Western buildings, and add some food stalls throughout the city.
-Whirl Islands: Mainly fine but very annoying to navigate because the ledges funnel you to certain exits forcing you to leave and Surf to another entrance to continue exploring. Make the area a bit more accessible no matter which entrance you choose.
-Rt. 42: Now we're hitting Johto's mountainous sections and again, they're all flat. Might be a bit tricky to make Rt. 42 more mountainous because it has multiple lakes, but they could possibly add a bit more elevation.
-Mt. Mortar: The Waterfall helps it look a bit more mountainous than some of Kanto's mountains, but the second floor could do with the whole "bridges criss-crossing overhead" treatment.
-Rt. 43: Given its proximity to Lake of Rage and the smaller ponds on this route, maybe this one should be a bit more like a marsh.
-Rt. 45 and 46: The first of the "tons of ledges" route that once again uses ledges as a way to depict elevation due to the Game Boy's limitations. But this sort of design is always annoying and tedious since you have to use Fly dozens of times to explore the area. Rely less on ledges (although you still need some to prevent you from going from Rt. 29 or Dark Cave to Blackthorn early) and more on cliffs and stairs.

Spoiler: Design Changes for Hoenn Areas

-Mt. Pyre: The design of this one is really weird. You're meant to go right in, turn left, and then climb the outside? I don't quite get why the inner mausoleum section is an optional area that's mainly a waste of time. To play with your expectations maybe? IDK, but the area could really be better designed and the Mt. Coronet/HGSS Mt. Silver "weave in and out of the mountain" design would be a better concept. If they want to mess with you by fooling you into going down the wrong path, there are other ways of doing that.
-Rt. 123: Similar to Rt. 45 and 46, has the whole "tons of ledges" schtick. Needs a similar improvement.
-Rt. 124-128: These areas are so empty and hard to get your bearings straight. They desperately need more islands with recognizable landmarks to help you find your way, especially on Rt. 124, 127, and 128. Maybe have some islands with grass patches and other recognizable landmarks such as lighthouses?
-Evergrande City: How is this a "city"? It's a field of flowers with a Pokemon Center on it. Make this an actual city with more buildings please.
-Hoenn Victory Road: Again mainly feels like a generic cave. ORAS had a great concept with it being an overgrown cave full of vegetation, but sadly that was just scenery for the Wally battle and not how the meat of the cave was actually designed. Like with other Victory Roads, this would be cool if it had some outdoor sections. Maybe a flower field with actual tall grass and wild Pokemon? Maybe a Surfing route through a maze of rocks, and some diving spots? They could really make this feel a bit like Hoenn in miniature, which is appropriate for the final dungeon. Would be a lot more interesting than a plain jane cave.

Spoiler: Design Changes for Areas from Other Regions

-Kalos Rt. 1: Why does this even exist? If they want to make it a Route, make it a freaking Route and add some actual wild Pokemon and trainers here. If they don't want you to deal with them the first time fine, but they could at least do what Alola Rt. 1 did and have new sections open up to experience that later.
-Santalune Forest: Anything other than a blatant Viridian Forest clone would be super.
-Glittering Cave: B1F is fine I guess. 1F though, this reeks of an "OMG WE'RE 3D" gimmick and now that the novelty is worn off, they really need to make this more than just a narrow path with random dead ends and Pokemon hanging from the ceiling.
-Wela Volcano Park: The warps up and down the mountain feel utterly insulting TBH. Make some actual volcanic caverns to fill in the gaps.
-Galar Mine: We can see lower levels of the mine but can't get there. Add a B1F please?
-Turffield: We only really get to visit half of the city, with the areas behind the gym blocked off. Let us visit them.

 

[Zexy]

Long post.

Spoiler

A major problem games in the first 4 gens had was that the different Strength boulder mechanics caused a difficulty to force routes to be one-way until a specific event, then two-way afterwards. It basically had to either be done with Snorlax/Sudowoodo choke points, or the more egregious case, Route 4 with the ledge which once jumped blocked all the prior content until Cut/Diglett's Cave, and finally Surf to make the route truly two-way. Compare and contrast the much more design of Unova Route 13 in BW2, where Giant Chasm was successfully made inaccessible from Lacunosa until you would go all the way around and fix the problem permanently.

Another problem with several maps, which unfortunately has persisted all the way up to Gen 6, if not 8, is the entire region choke points. For Johto, that would be Sudowoodo junction, but also all of Ecruteak: what if an unfortunate disaster struck the town? Would several parts of the region be entirely blocked off from one another? There is a one-way from the northeastern side down to the rest, but no going back: and the northwest is just... off. They really should have added at least one water route, maybe with a whirlpool, to connect Goldenrod to the islands. As well as make Dark Cave climbable, if only with Waterfall, all the way up, not just halfway.

For Hoenn, I find it egregious how Lavaridge is essentially cut off regular supply lines: doubt all the goods there are provided by Cable Car then down Jagged Pass. Route 115 is yet another Route 4-like case, the ledge problem is fixed by Surfing up. There is another half choke point in Route 118: while east-to-west is possible with Routes 132-134, the opposite just HAS to go through Mauville->118. Again, all it takes is one disaster and the region has a huge problem. Route 123 also feels like the kind of area that could have a static Tropius instead of a ledge, and you basically have to jump on its back from the east side and startle it to get a battle then get it out of the way, and make Mauville->Lilycove possible without the Fortree detour and all the tall grass. Also, Sootopolis. Yeah, even the anime knew better than forcing all visitors to use Dive and cut an opening for ships to just regularly enter lol. The worst part is that Dive was not even necessary to block progress, you still need to do Seafloor Cavern for the Gym door to eventually open. Also, Ever Grande CITY? I rest my case. Also just a personal preference, I would kinda want a secret path connecting 111-119, maybe only available after Weather Insitute: see how the rainforest/desert transition happens.

Sinnoh... Canalave kinda deserves a bridge to Jubilife. Just lock Byron behind a Surf-required Iron Island. The region did not have major issues otherwise, the Cycling Road + Mach Bike mud slope WAS clever. I would add a Surf path on the river from Valley Windworks to Wayward Cave, though. The major egregious case here is again Strength-related, and it is in Mt. Coronet: the area you have to go through to get the Dragon Claw TM, which allows for one-way travel from Oreburgh/Hearthome to Celestic/Snowpoint, but not the opposite... A Gen 5-like boulder solves this, as would a Galactic NPC on the other side of the pathway too.

Unova could use a path from Pokestar Studios to PWT, they are literally next to each other and could make the southwest area be truly part of the region instead of a lone contingent only connected by the Virbank-Castelia ship.

Kalos has the Lumiose problem. Do not get me started on Lumiose, there is almost nothing I liked about it. But it does once again split Kalos in west and east: you are in Camphrier/Coumarine and want to go to Laverre/Dendemille/Santalune or vice-versa? No other options for you!

Alola had a little warp problem with Wela Volcano Park and Hokulani Observatory, they could have made actual paths for connecting those.

Galar is ALL CORRIDORS. Seriously, please. By this point anything not open-world is just not worth much mapping-wise, so no need to "fix" something.

Finally, yeah, the pointless routes, like Kanto's 7 or Kalos' 1

 

[Daenerys]

Route 123 in Hoenn comes to mind. I'd change it by removing those annoying ledges that make going from west to east along the route towards Mt. Pyre impossible. If GF needed to prevent players from reaching Mt. Pyre from that side because of plot reasons, they could've just put a temporary roadblock. :/

 

[Zexy]

Route 123 in Hoenn comes to mind. I'd change it by removing those annoying ledges that make going from west to east along the route towards Mt. Pyre impossible. If GF needed to prevent players from reaching Mt. Pyre from that side because of plot reasons, they could've just put a temporary roadblock. :/

THIS. I did talk about it in the spoiler, I think a Tropius would fit perfectly. Then startle it from behind or something, or have the Giga Drain NPC interact with it.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Another problem with several maps, which unfortunately has persisted all the way up to Gen 6, if not 8, is the entire region choke points. For Johto, that would be Sudowoodo junction, but also all of Ecruteak: what if an unfortunate disaster struck the town? Would several parts of the region be entirely blocked off from one another? There is a one-way from the northeastern side down to the rest, but no going back: and the northwest is just... off. They really should have added at least one water route, maybe with a whirlpool, to connect Goldenrod to the islands. As well as make Dark Cave climbable, if only with Waterfall, all the way up, not just halfway.

Something I forgot to mention with Goldenrod that would actually fix this issue, just connect Rt. 40 to Goldenrod. They're probably not far from each other and Goldenrod is right on the coast. Then you could freely Surf between Goldenrod, Olivine and Cianwood and use Rt. 40 as a shortcut to Olivine.

For Hoenn, I find it egregious how Lavaridge is essentially cut off regular supply lines: doubt all the goods there are provided by Cable Car then down Jagged Pass.

Lavaridge could probably just use stairs up the cliff to Lavaridge with a temporary roadblock until you beat Magma/Aqua at Mt. Chimney, yeah.

Unova could use a path from Pokestar Studios to PWT, they are literally next to each other and could make the southwest area be truly part of the region instead of a lone contingent only connected by the Virbank-Castelia ship.

I was considering this but didn't quite think it was necessary. I was thinking more Floccesy Ranch to PWT, that weird patch of land in the back with the Hidden Grotto feels like it could have more to it. Maybe Relic Passage could be extended west from the PWT and connect to Floccesy Ranch?

 

[Zexy]

I think there were scrapped designs for Goldenrod Cape and a short path connecting to the rest of the sea area. Not sure why they removed it, would be better that way

I did not even know about the northeastern part of Flocessy Ranch until just now, but looking at that map, they should have at the very least removed the rocks in the middle of the river and let it all connect north-south.

 

[Poke Dragon]

I would make that part of Nacrene City that has the train tracks actually lead somewhere that's not a dead-end, maybe to an old train station that's now in disrepair because it was abandoned in favor of the Battle Subway. It would be nice to be able to explore an abandoned building that's not a house or a lab for once.

 

[Zexy]

Oh yeah, and finally build that thing in Vermilion City... It needs to happen, come on

 

[Daenerys]

Honestly I think I'd redo most of the Kanto map. One thing that has always bugged me is how short the routes to the north, south, east and west of Saffron City are compared to some of the other routes; like, it takes forever to reach Fuchsia City from Lavender Town, but it only takes like 20 steps from Saffron's western gatehouse to reach Celadon City?

 

[Rachael]

I definitely agree with earlier comments about Route 123 in Hoenn, and I'd like to add the Jagged Pass to that as well. I'm not a fan of environments where a single misstep makes you have to go all the way back to the beginning. I also agree with @Bolt Strike that Ever Grande City needs to be a proper city. It's got a great theme, and unless you want to stand around doing nothing, there's no way to hear the whole thing! Such a waste!

Speaking of themes, I don't know if this counts, but I think it's time for every town and route to have a different theme, even if it's just a remix of another town or route's theme. Scarlet/Violet carried this out beautifully, and we also have an example in HGSS, with the themes from Ecruteak and Cianwood. Ecruteak has the same basic melody as Cianwood, but with a more traditional Japanese flavor. It works well for a city based on Kyoto.

 

[Zexy]

Kanto Cycling Road did not feel like a problem, I would probably change the layout of 11-15 a bit bit, basically move the Snorlax a bit westward (but not as west as the Johto games), then a straight path south leading to east of Fuchsia, instead of bridges and mazes the long way around.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Kanto Cycling Road did not feel like a problem

I don't have an issue with Kanto Cycling Road as much as the routes leading up to it. Rt. 16 and 18 feel like they belong in the same category as Rt. 7 in that you walk 5 seconds and you're already at Cycling Road. I would just flesh out Rt. 16 and 18 a little more and keep Rt. 17 as is.

 

[Zexy]

Too many route numbers were wasted for the southward towards Fuchsia part. Once again, all that was needed was a route south from Celadon leading to west of Fuchsia.

 

[Mr. MoonStone]

I just wish Saffron city and Celadon city looked more like Tokyo. I get they were developed at a different time, but still. Violence will ensue from Pokemon fans if we ever get another Kanto game, but if we ever did, I hope we get some major design overhauls for the region.

 

[Zexy]

By modern standards, Saffron and surrounding towns would pretty much be one urban unit complete with asphalt roads etc like Castelia-Nimbasa-Driftveil.

I would like a "Kanto in the future" game, but I agree it should not come anytime soon.

 

[Nicolas721]

In general: Water routes should have more resting spots like small islands or caves (and a way to fast-track them taking ships or something). Caves should only have overworld encounters.

Kanto (I did not play Let's Go so my apologies if something was changed there)

• Let us visit the spot where Clefairy gather to dance in Mt. Moon (this is available in HGSS, but I'd expect something better)
• Give Rock Tunnel a minning theme and connect it to the Power Plant. Also add NPCs that suggest you Pokemon that can use Flash and that can be caught there.
• Give Fushia City a Japanese Town Theme.
• Fuse Saffron City and Celadon City and make them both more urbanized.

Johto

• Give us a way to skip Union Cave and Ilex Forest (obviously in the late or post game) to make travelling though the region easier.
• Give Mt Mortar a climbing theme (since you're supposed to get Tyrogue there).

Hoenn

• Allow us to get to Fallarbor Town from Rustboro City (If I remember correctly you can't do it).
• More underwater stuff like ruins or Corsola swarms.

Sinnoh (I did not play BDSP so my apologies if something was changed there)

• Give us a map of Mt Coronet (in the postgame) or a way to fly directly to Spear Pillar.
• Add more Legends References.
• The island below Twinleaf Town is very boring, make it postgame only and give it a rocky island theme.
• Add a small route that connects Fullmoon Island and Iron Island.
• Make Fuego Ironworks more easy to find, maybe if you follow some red tiles you can get there.
• Make Victory Road a desert since by that point you are more than tied of caves.

I'll do the others later.

 

[Zexy]

Give us a way to skip Union Cave and Ilex Forest (obviously in the late or post game) to make travelling though the region easier.

I really like this suggestion... Viridian Forest had a Cut-focused shortcut. Eterna Forest did it too. Ilex could use a similar one...

Allow us to get to Fallarbor Town from Rustboro City (If I remember correctly you can't do it).

You can after getting Surf. There is also a hidden area further north in Route 115, the only place you can get the entire Jigglypuff line and already evolved wild Swellow in Hoenn. Plus a few trainers, rare berries, secret base spots and I think an item in the mountains.

 

[Bolt Strike]

Give us a way to skip Union Cave and Ilex Forest (obviously in the late or post game) to make travelling though the region easier.

As in a way to get to Azalea easier? Because you can skip it once you clear Sudowoodo. Other than that, ehhh. Not much of interest in the Azalea area unless you need Apricorn Balls, and you don't really need one after you get Fly.

Give us a map of Mt Coronet (in the postgame) or a way to fly directly to Spear Pillar.

That reminds me, that hidden ledge on Rt. 207 accessible from Mt. Coronet 2F would make for a great shortcut.

 

[Daenerys]

I can't believe I didn't think of this before, but Lumiose's layout becoming simplified would've been nice. It's been 10 years and yet I'm still confused as hell whenever I go there. The plazas and alleys didn't need to exist because they only add to the general confusion of the city's map imho.

And I agree that Santalune Forest should've had a much different design instead of it being a copy of Viridian Forest's layout.

 

[Zexy]

That reminds me, that hidden ledge on Rt. 207 accessible from Mt. Coronet 2F would make for a great shortcut.

How? Have a Rock Climb to it and a Galactic Grunt blocking it until the Spear Pillar plot is over?

The plazas and alleys didn't need to exist because they only add to the general confusion of the city's map imho.

This! Boulevards and Prism Tower with one avenue to and from it with Pokemon Center and Lysandre Cafe is enough. Castelia had an awesome feeling with more simplicity.