BDSP Mega Evolution/Z-Moves Discussion Thread

[Eitarou]

To be fair, Palkia’s type was never unique to it and Giratina’s became non-unique at the same time as Dialga’s.

Also, ORAS is the only remake (out of four) to give its Legendaries a new form of any kind, so it's weird that people are acting like it's strange for the Sinnoh dragons to get nothing.

 

[Esserise]

You just gave me an idea: what if when Dialga holds the Adamant Orb and Palkia holds the Lustrous Orb in BDSP, they just end up with different abilities that fit their powers as opposed to being stuck with Pressure? And the best part is that it doesn't need to even be unique or OP. After all, Giratina gets the common Levitate ability when holding the Griseious Orb, and situations like Zygarde and Rockruff even show that a Pokémon doesn't need a brand new form design and stat changes to have an alternate ability (although in their case those abilities give the access to fancy forms).

Just have the mascot's respective orbs give them these abilities and we'll be good:

• Dialga should get Insomnia since time waits for no man.
• Palkia should get Tough Claws because it tears holes in reality.

I like the idea of them being given different Abilities, mostly since I think Pressure is so boringly overused on the early Legendaries. Although I suspect that if Game Freak were interested in changing Dialga and Palkia's Abilities, they probably would just give them flat-out new Abilities, rather than existing ones. Just to have something with a little more novelty to it, even though some existing Abilities could buff them just as well.

If I had to pick a "new, old" Ability for Dialga, I think I might lean more toward Anticipation - interpreting it as Dialga looking into the future and seeing what move the opponent might use.

However, I think that since the official site mentions Pressure, they're probably just keeping Pressure.

I got the impression that an element of surprise was intended with the wolves' Hero forms. When Zacian's Hero form first leaked, my initial reaction was, "Wow! What's this? Some kind of ancient/primitive form from the distant past?" It didn't really occur to me that it was simply an armourless version.

Seeing the legendary Pokemon appear out of the mist, in a previously-unseen form, right at the beginning of the game would have been a big surprise for anyone who didn't see the leaks. I regret spoiling it for myself.

True, that is one way of looking at it. Personally, I just remember a prerelease review casually mentioning that the wolves appear early on without their armor, so unless that reviewer slipped up (which is certainly possible), it could be that those forms aren't something that TPC deemed significant enough to put on the "Do Not Mention" list for the press outlets.

I like this idea a lot. It makes sense for Giratina to be the only one that can change form, because it's the rebel of the group that went against what Arceus intended.

Hm! Good point. I hadn't thought about that. Plus, the characterization of antimatter/the Distortion World in the games is that it's the diametric opposite of Dialga and Palkia - if space and time are the foundation for the world of matter, then the world of antimatter is the opposite, where neither time nor space are stable. So again you have Dialga and Palkia being associated with stability and predictability. So Giratina having more fluidity to its form than either of them works from that angle as well.

I wonder whether Arceus, being the ever-constant creator of reality, might never receive a new form for the same reason? Part of me thinks it could do with a new form with a boosted base stat total, to stop the likes of Zacian, Zamazenta and Mega Mewtwo from stealing its thunder. But it's still the only Pokemon to have a "natural" base stat total of 720 without the aid of a held item or battle mechanic, so maybe it doesn't matter.

I go back and forth on this one. Truthfully, I don't think Arceus needs a boost. Much like Dialga and Palkia, Arceus has proven that its stats and its resources are quite good enough already. And yeah, the fact that it's the only Pokémon with a "natural" 720 stat still stands out.

That said, I'm interested to see how Legends develops Arceus's mythology. Will it lean into the idea that the Arceus we see only represents a fraction of Arceus's "true" power? Will it lean more into the belief that Arceus really did create the universe? I mean, if we're going all-in on the idea that Arceus truly is a creator god responsible for the existence of everything, then yeah, the fact that Mega Ray boasts a higher stat total seems a bit backwards. But if they still want to maintain an ambiguity about Arceus and whether it really is what the myths say it is, then I don't think the rationale for overpowering it is as sound.

Side-note, but I also think it's curious that people seem to fixate solely on the base stat total. There's a sense that people definitely have an issue with the fact that Mega Rayquaza and Ultra Necrozma have more overall stat points at their disposal, but no one seems to question the fact that:

• Regieleki
• Three forms of Deoxys
• Ninjask
• Pheromosa
• Shadow Rider Calyrex
• Crowned Zacian
• Electrode
• Aerodactyl and Mega Aerodactyl
• Mega Alakazam
• Accelgor
• Mega Sceptile
• Mega Beedrill
• Zeraora
• Dragapult
• Hero Zacian
• Hero Zamazenta
• Barraskewda
• Zen Galarian Darmanitan
• Mewtwo and its Megas
• Mega Manectric
• Mega Lopunny
• Greninja and Ash-Greninja
• Jolteon
• Crobat
• Tapu Koko
• Eternatus
• Spectrier
• Noice Face Eiscue
• Crowned Zamazenta
• Pirouette Meloetta
• Sky Shaymin
• Talonflame
• Swellow
• Weavile
• Darkrai
• Marshadow
• Ribombee
• Noivern
• Naganadel
• Boltund
• Therian Tornadus, and
• Mega Pidgeot

are all faster than "God."

(Actually, fun fact: Arceus isn't in the Top 10 for any individual base stat, even if you exclude Legendaries, Mythicals, Ultra Beasts, and Mega Evolutions. But that's never the point that people give attention to. Ultimately I think this points to a notion that the approach that the designers take to base stats is not to demonstrate which Pokémon is "the best" in that regard, because Pokémon with very high stats in one area will usually lack them in another. While it is true that Arceus's 720 BST was once the highest BST, the novelty that they're actually going for with that stat total is its well-roundedness: 120 in each individual stat is very good, and that - combined with its Ability and movepool - has got far more of an effect on Arceus's play style and usability than the BST itself does.)

Also: I did not know until writing this post that literally Munchlax has a higher HP stat than Arceus.

Dexit does solves the problem in the games themselves (at least to an extent - I think Meowth having four different forms in one game is a bit excessive), but it could end up becoming a bit of a headache for any media that uses the National Dex.

The Japanese online Pokedex is starting to look a bit chaotic with all the Megas, Gigantamaxes and regional forms slotted in between the classic Pokemon (perhaps the English-language version has the right idea by including only the original form of each species in its main listing). The most recent National Dex edition of the Pokemon Handbook includes Megas and Alolan forms on the same page as their original counterparts, but I wonder how they will manage to find space for Galarian and Gigantamax forms in the next edition.

This is an issue, but not one that should begin to dictate Game Freak's creative choices. If anything, I think it just challenges the people responsible for web design and book layouts to think of more creative solutions. For instance, on those Pokédex webpages, why do they not rearrange it so that hovering your cursor over a Pokémon like Venusaur also brings up a drop-down list below it that includes Gigantamax and Mega Venusaur?

On that note, the problem actually sounds a bit less like "there's too many forms altogether," and more like "some specific Pokémon (like Charizard or Meowth) now have too many forms." Single new forms for Dialga and Palkia wouldn't be as difficult to fit into a limited space as Gigantamax, Alolan, and Galarian Meowth.

And of course, I think most media would probably have the option of whether or not they want to include Megas and Gigantamax forms. Invoking the National Dex doesn't strictly require you to include those as well. Regional variants seem a bit more inherent, but even then, New Pokémon Snap included Alolan Raichu but not the Kantonian variant, so context can permit exclusions. (In fact, I feel like most Pokémon media has already been using limited rosters for at least a few years now? Obviously GO doesn't limit itself, and I think Super Mystery Dungeon had everything from Bulbasaur to Hoopa, but games like Café Mix, New Snap, or Pokkén Tournament; in addition to anime and manga works and TCG sets haven't had any obligation to include everything, they just need to stay relatively on-message with whatever the current marketing push is focused on.)

Primal Dialga from the Explorers games though.

A non-canonical spin-off, but even if it weren't, all Primal Dialga does is get darker. Its physical form doesn't change in any way. So it is still the rigid "template" of time, but with a darker shade to represent how time has been corrupted in that story.

 

[Norzan]

A non-canonical spin-off, but even if it weren't, all Primal Dialga does is get darker.

Its blue stripes and blue diamond in its chest become orange. So more than just getting darker. lol

 

[Esserise]

Its blue stripes and blue diamond in its chest become orange. So more than just getting darker. lol

I'm aware of that, I just think it's splitting hairs. They go from light blue to more of a dark orange, which I'm comfortable describing as "getting darker," especially since it doesn't change my overall point.

 

[BigBadButterfree]

I really hate things like the Hoenn Primals, as well as legendary abilities that are just a one-time thing, but if Megan are brought back in this game (which I fully don't expect), I hope they really make them interesting. I'm sick of pressure, I'm sick of mold breaker knockoffs, make something NEW.

Trying best to tie in their legendary powers, the only thing I can think of Dialga affecting "time" would be like an ability that automatically sets Trick Room. Of course, this makes most sense of this new mega/form has a really low speed.

To match that, it would seem likely that they'd give Palkia an automatic Wonder Room or Magic Room (or maybe both, cuz neither are as impactful as trick room imo).

My OTHER idea, would probably be a huge mechanical mess and a nightmare to competitive, but I'd love to embrace the chaos of their raw powers. I'd give Dialga a super OP ability that offsets each of its attacks by a turn, with a freebie at the start. So you choose, say, earthquake on the first turn, and it instead uses protect. You choose roar of time on the second turn, and it uses earthquake. Aside from the initial protect, this ability would probably be pretty bad lol. I just don't know how they could implement some kind of "time altering" power.

For Palkia, the only one I could think of would be to send attacks to random places. Which would really only affect doubles, so I'm not super thrilled with this idea. Basically, the opponents' attacks would have a random chance to be sent to a different target than intended, including to their partner (or perhaps themself?).

Idk, I feel like there could be a ton of potential giving "megas" to these Pokemon, but as usual I'm sure if they do anything, they'll just slap on some variation of mold breaker, clear body, or just keep lame old pressure.

 

[colours]

i don't care for generational gimmicks making a return beyond maybe mega evolution, but regardless it seems (at the time of this post) that none of those will be present (or have shown to be present) in bdsp, which is good news for me. perhaps primal forms as is the case in oras, in which case i'd be fine with that, too.

 

[Johnny Boy]

I guess Mega evolution will be relegated to the post game much like how it was in gen 7. Hopefully they won’t hold the mega stones hostage over online battles.