Mafia Mentor Mafia Game: Rainbow Rocket Strikes Back - Endgame

[Zorchic]

Vote: Zorchic

I am also going to vote you, due to you claiming that the town is weak and also the Bussing claim.

That is not true. I don't remember saying anything about Town being weak. I also don't understand what you mean about the Bussing claim? I only claimed Bus Driver now. Bussing and the Bus Driver are two different things.

 

[Agent2583]

It sounds like youre trying to spin things around with the WINFOM and bussing, and defending yourself by saying town agreed is weak sauce. Coupled with the post edit from earlier, and it smells pretty scummy to me.

You mentioned the town is weak according to Jamie.

 

[jamiebearcub]

How so?

Also, I voted quickly on KohKimura because I wanted the game to move along. The vote added on to that.
Yes, I turned out to be wrong, but if I hadn't voted, nobody would know what to do without me jump-starting the wagon.

Sorry, my bad. I thought that if I said that before, mafia would stay put and not defend KohKimura (assuming Koh was Mafia), since they don't want to take the bait.

Mafia not defending their partners is called bussing.

Clarification, I meant that when nobody defended Koh, that seemed a bit off.

I didn't have any other ideas other than keeping my vote on Koh, and I just hoped for the best. Mind, I didn't think he was Town just because nobody defended him, but the thought did cross my mind.

So you voted quickly just to start convo, then thought to defend koh while assuming koh was mafia? But decided not to because of how mafia might respond? It almost sounds like you expected mafia to defend town? This sounds like a mess. Also, You can't know nothing wouldve happened if you hadn't started it, it sounds like we wrongly started following you.

That was a reason why I decided to unvote Agent. Also, Frozen Fennec is Town. It wasn't a sort of Mafia plan to shift my vote to KohKimura. What's the benefit of changing votes if I could keep my vote on Agent if I wanted?

...So still that you agreed with town....Mafia can agree with town lol. Mafia wouldnt really care, would they? As long as its a mislynch. Saying it wasn't a "sort of" mafia plan sounds like a "full" mafia plan.

Okay, everyone, I need to make this clear. I am Town. I am a Bus Driver. My power is to be able to swap two players during the Night. Any actions that would reach one player reach the other, and vice versa.

Night 1, I swapped myself and Frozen Fennec.
Night 2, I swapped myself and Giri.

Its very copy paste looking, but you didn't bold the part about being town so that looks disjointed to me. As in, you wrote town and copy pasted a description. If you really are the bus driver, why swap yourself? Especially the first 2 nights? Bus Driver is usually limited, it seems (too) convenient that you are "bus driver but I can't help anymore cause I used them already". Fennec can't say anything, does anyone else have proof?

Nothing here shows me anything "new" aside from the claim (which I dont really buy). Also, you didnt comment on the edited post. As such, my vote stands.

 

[jamiebearcub]

You mentioned the town is weak according to Jamie.

I said "defending yourself by saying town agreed is weak sauce" not "town is weak sauce"

 

[Zorchic]

Also, You can't know nothing would've happened if you hadn't started it

I never said I knew. I said that nobody would know what to do, including me, if I hadn't started it.

...So still that you agreed with town....Mafia can agree with town lol. Mafia wouldn't really care, would they? As long as its a mislynch. Saying it wasn't a "sort of" mafia plan sounds like a "full" mafia plan.

When I said "sort of," I meant "It wasn't any kind of Mafia plan."

If you really are the bus driver, why swap yourself? Especially the first 2 nights?

I can redirect nightkills. On Night 2, I used my role on myself and Giri because I suspected he was Mafia and wanted him nightkilled instead. Same for Frozen Fennec on Night 1.

Bus Driver is usually limited

I never said my role was limited. It's not; I can use it as many times as I want. Why accuse me of saying that it is when I'm saying nothing of the sort?

As in, you wrote town and copy pasted a description.

Doesn't that imply that it is from the role PM and is my actual role?

Also, you didn't comment on the edited post.

The edit was bad. I edited that part out because it wasn't how I really felt. I even said "I guess" in the part that was cut.

I feel the aggression on my role is unjustified.

 

[Agent2583]

Unvote: Zorchic

Zorchic, I think you're a bit confused and you need to re-read

 

[prog rocker]

After thinking it, I will be retiring. I really end up with a pretty bad headache everytime I have to tutor my nieces. I'll give it another try once classes start, if they ever do...

 

[ZinnLav]

Felly is subbing in for prog rocker effective immediately.

@Felly Please confirm in thread once you've gotten your role.

 

[Felly]

Hi I'm here, I've been reading through for funsies, but lemme take a minute to read everything else and make sure I'm still following and I'll throw some more stuff in.

 

[Felly]

Wowee this is a wild ride and I am lost.

Okay, so we got the godfather, that is good, I am proud of y'all. Frozen Fennec made the one true sacrifice.

Ummm, let's see here, so the Miller claim doesn't seem terribly sus to me, but the fact that Officer Snake hasn't said a whole lot this game other than that Miller claim is sus. I'm hesitant to lynch because they're inactive though, as I'd rather not lynch an inactive player since it sounds like we're in a mylo situation right now? Risk seems to outweigh the reward here on that, but still, I think I'd like to hear more from @Officer Snake.

I'm willing to believe Zorchic is town as the bus driver claim also feels believable. The wording here

On Night 2, I used my role on myself and Giri because I suspected he was Mafia and wanted him nightkilled instead. Same for Frozen Fennec on Night 1.

also makes it sound like they're town trying to get possible Mafia killed. Obviously Frozen Fennec has flipped town, and Giri's role in this game is a little up in the air right now. It seems like the Bus Driver role is trying to be used for good rather than bad. I need to go back and read Giri's posts and interactions with others again to get a better idea of where I stand with them right now, so no read for them right now.

I don't have much of a read on Agent right now; he hasn't said too much, but from what he has said, it does feel towny. We've already established he's more active on Discord than forums, but being active here doesn't hurt either, especially in a game like this!!

Jamie seems town as well. I don't think I can see Jamie and Zorchic being the last two Mafia; I think it'd either be one or the other, or neither, which is what I'm leaning more towards right now. I feel like the conversation between them is mostly running in circles right now, since that's the big thing that's making me feel lost right now. I'd need to go back and read it again to see if there's anything that pops out at me, but that's where I'm at with them right now.

I think everyone else has been relatively inactive or is dead (or is me). I don't think I have a solid candidate for lynch right now, but I'm gonna go back and read the thread again so I can lynch before the end of the day.

 

[jamiebearcub]

I never said I knew. I said that nobody would know what to do, including me, if I hadn't started it.

This still sounds like you knew nothing would happen if you didnt start it.

When I said "sort of," I meant "It wasn't any kind of Mafia plan."

This is easy to say but harder to prove.

I can redirect nightkills. On Night 2, I used my role on myself and Giri because I suspected he was Mafia and wanted him nightkilled instead. Same for Frozen Fennec on Night 1.

And This dont fit togther. If you wanted to redirect mafia kill to fennec b/c fennec was mafia, why not vote them in the thread? I also don't get why you'd swap with yourself both times as a bus driver...It sounds like saving yourself, not helping town. Which could make you an indep serial killer. Also nearby that I missed before:

Anyone else want to claim a role?

At the time I didnt question it but now I think it couldve been fishing for a cop/doc to hunt.

I never said my role was limited. It's not; I can use it as many times as I want. Why accuse me of saying that it is when I'm saying nothing of the sort?

I didn't accuse you of being limited, I said bus driver is usually limited. As in most times. Why twist my words?

Doesn't that imply that it is from the role PM and is my actual role?

No, it implies you copied a standard readout from a different mafia thread.

The edit was bad. I edited that part out because it wasn't how I really felt. I even said "I guess" in the part that was cut.

This still sounds like a coverup.

I feel the aggression on my role is unjustified.

From a game layout perspective, I disagree. So far we've only had a bomb, commuter and a watcher (and an indep JOAT). Given there was a godfather, theres likely a miller and a cop. Bus driver sounds "safe" compared to say, cop/doc, as theres less chance for someone to counter you. But, its still not a likely role. We've fallen too far behind to just believe a claim outta nowhere day 3. @Giri can you confirm the switch night 2?

 

[Parissong]

As for officer snake, I don't think their claim is enough to warrant a lynch today. They could be worth a vig shot if we still had Dawning and they sided with town, but even then it might've been too risky.

I still suspect him to be honest, but I think they're a pretty benign threat for now seeing as nothing is arising out of them.

So you voted quickly just to start convo, then thought to defend koh while assuming koh was mafia? But decided not to because of how mafia might respond?

I agree with this sentiment. Either Zorchic sounds like they were wildly confused or trying to do a double take in an effort to cover up a misstep. Sus behaviour

 

[Felly]

It's possible Giri may not know they were switched N2, just as a heads up. I'm not sure if that's something that would be made known to the person affected by the switch, so it'd probably be better knowing if someone else targeted Giri since we'd know their action was redirected to Zorchic, if that makes sense, but in that same vein, we'll also be outing another town role, so it may be best that if Giri can't confirm they were switched N2 because they were unaware that we just leave it at that, at least for now. If it was a Doctor or Cop that targeted Giri N2 and had their action placed on Zorchic instead, we'd be revealing who that is, therefore putting a big ol' target on their back for N3.

I think it is a valid point to raise that Zorchic has switched theirself both times when it comes to the swaps at night with their role as a Bus Driver. My basic understanding of the role from reading the Mafia Wiki is that any two players can be swapped, so it doesn't necessarily have to be used on oneself, but rather two completely different players. In a way, I can understand why you'd swap yourself with someone else, especially N1 when you may not have a solid read on anyone, but by N2, I imagine you'd have some sort of read on someone, so I'm not quite sure why it'd happen then.

I don't think I have a solid read on Giri right now; I agreed with some of their points from D1 after I'd switched in for Cool_Username, but otherwise hasn't said too much other than pointing out the Koh train from D2. Overall, I'm on the fence about Giri. Could be town trying to stir up discussion and just doesn't have time to really push it forward or could be Mafia trying to steer us in a different direction to keep the heat off the people they know are their allies.

@Agent2583 You said you had a read on Koh. What about their posts made you think they were scummy?

Unfortunately, at this point, I still don't think I have a person that I want to lynch while also feeling pretty confident about it. I think I'm torn between Zorchic and Giri right now, but even then, I'm not confident about either. Zorchic because while I agree that them using their role on theirself + another player is odd, but at the same time, I feel that they are indeed town. I just cannot see there being a Mafia Bus Driver in a newbie game, so I doubt it's being used to protect theirself, especially since it seems like up until now, there hasn't really been any real suspicion on Zorchic. Giri I'm just on the fence on, like I said earlier; part of me wants to lynch and part of me doesn't.

It's worth noting that I do think Officer Snake is suspicious as well, but I don't think they're a worthwhile lynch right now, given that they have been relatively inactive. I'm not really in the mindset of wasting a lynch on an inactive player right now when all I really have to base my lynch on is what I feel is a poorly timed Miller claim.

Gonna go back through and read the rest of D3 again to see if I can get a solid lynch candidate before the end of the day.

 

[Felly]

I feel like I'm flip floppin' all over the place here, and I almost feel like a Psyduck right now. Let's see where this goes.

I'm pretty sure that's part of the reason we voted you in the first place. Inactive people don't contribute to the conversation, and keeping them alive helps nobody. It could be a danger to town if they were lurking to collect information, because they wouldn't be helping the conversation along. Agent is active now, though, so we have no reason to vote him anymore.

What about me switching my votes did you not like? I voted Agent thinking he was lurking, and also to get the game going. Upon finding out he was just a little less active (supported by Frozen Fennec, who was part of Town), I unvoted him because I didn't find him worth pursuing, and moved on to someone else. And the reason I voted KohKimura is in my vote post: they didn't support anyone on their decisions. Also, I voted quickly on KohKimura because I wanted the game to move along. The vote added on to that.
Yes, I turned out to be wrong, but if I hadn't voted, nobody would know what to do without me jump-starting the wagon.


If there is a Godfather, then clearly there is a Cop, and so it would make sense for Officer Snake to be a Miller. I don't suspect him at all. Besides, the flavor tells us we're down to two Mafia. We can't be in a LyLo situation, only a MyLo situation if we mislynch today and the next nightkill goes through.

Vote: Giri

You haven't been very active Day 2 and said almost nothing on that Day. I must point out that you didn't vote Day 2, why not vote Officer Snake then? Any reason for that?
This above post of yours that I quoted sounds very suspicious and/or scummy to me.

Lumping these two quotes together, but there's three instances here of wanting to lynch inactive players with the desire to get them talking. Now don't get me wrong here, I'm all for pressure votes in an attempt to get people to talk. I agree that inactive players don't contribute to the conversation and raises the question of whether or not they're lurking or just simply inactive, and sometimes, they just need a little pressure to get the ball rolling.

It's just three instances of it. First on Agent, then on Koh, now on Giri, who of the two that are still alive, is the most active. You have said yourself that we would be in a MyLo situation if we mislynch today and Mafia successfully kills a town on N3. I'm not saying we shouldn't lynch today, but is it truly worth it to lynch a moderately inactive player that may actually be town?

I'm reading Zorchic as town, but at the same time, something about their actions just isn't sitting right with me. It just feels like the same mistake is being made over and over again, though on the other hand, it seems like the only other relatively active player in the game is Jamie, and maybe that's the obvious lynch here. I don't want to put us into a MyLo situation, but at the same time, I don't want to not lynch either.

 

[Felly]

So it looks like we're not quite in a MyLo situation here; there's 2 Mafia and 5 Town of those of us left, so if we mislynch today, we've still got one more day to sort things out.

That said,

I feel as though one factor contributing to the inactivity is that most of us here are beginners to this kind of format of mafia, so players may be hesitant to post

As for KohKimura, I dislike the suggestion that inactives should not be lynched. Inactives don't contribute, and it gives an excuse to mafia to just lay low the entire game, which is non-productive to town.

At least with Snake, we have some sort of claim, which is little, but it's at least something... I still don't agree with the suspicions against him, especially since it seems that nobody's counterclaiming miller.

this post by Tood sticks out to me. Despite him being Mafia, I think it still has some valuable information. I am kinda against the idea of lynching inactives since there's not much to go off when it comes to them and it just feels like a wasted lynch imo, but in this game, it feels like the majority are inactives. Of the 7 remaining players, only 2 have been consistently active throughout the day phases: Zorchic and Jamie. (Excluding myself in that count since I've been relatively active this day phase, but I've subbed in twice now and this is the first chance I've really had to be active in this game.) Giri's made a few posts here and there, and so has Paris. I feel like Agent is just kinda piggybacking off of Zorchic since Zorchic seems like the active, experienced player and Agent seems like the new, inexperienced player among the two. Officer Snake is relatively inactive, but he has claimed Miller, which is... like Tood said, something and no one has counter claimed it, and we're at D3 now; his inactivity is suspicious, but overall, I think we know he has a town alignment and it doesn't feel worth it to lynch at this point.

My gut is telling me that Mafia is laying low this game. I don't remember Tood making too many posts before he was killed off, so something's telling me that the other two Mafia are also not making too many posts. I think with that in mind, that eases my suspicion on Zorchic and gives me more of a town vibe on Jamie (not that I didn't already have one on her, but still). Agent I'm willing to believe is town given that he seems to be going along with Zorchic, who I'm willing to believe is town based on their role claim (which no one has counterclaimed btw, just questioned the use of it) and their activity; they seem to be driving a lot of discussion in the game and urging people to post. Officer Snake, as I said above, has claimed Miller and no one's counterclaimed it, so while their activity is questionable, not worth lynching knowing they're most likely town aligned.

So all of that leaves Giri and Paris. Giri, as I've said before, I'm on the fence about, but I think after rereading their posts again from D3, I feel like there's some discussion attempts, but they're not being followed through with. It just gets started and then they're gone the rest of the day phase. Seems odd to start a discussion but not follow through with it. The Officer Snake lynch seems odd too; I think most of us agree that Officer Snake is suspicious but overall not worth pursuing because of inactivity and the non-counterclaimed Miller claim. It feels almost like they're trying to get attention on someone that they know is town to force a mislynch and put town in a difficult position later. It's just not sitting right with me. Paris overall hasn't said much, but my quote below goes towards Paris, so I'm gonna give him at least a chance to respond before I push forward on that one.

I would like to vote for koh too for the same reason Zorchic said above (ie. vote on Dawn), but seeing there is no hypermajority rules to hasten the lynch, I will hold back for now.

I do not want to divert the spotlight from koh, but Agent's defense seems pretty flimsy to me.



I am inclined to think this defense is pretty weak, and conveniently piggybacks off a post Zorchic made about a possible reason why they are not posting.



Anything to contribute @Agent2583 ? Certainly if you're going to admit to not being active on forums but remain inactive after the admission you'd want to join the conversation

Do you have any further reads on Agent now that we're in D3? Looks like you started something here but never came back to it.

--

Overall, I think I'm going to go with my gut here and pray it's right and Vote: Giri on the lynch for today. As I said above, they've been starting discussions but overall not following through and seems like they're trying to get us to pay attention to people we're not really looking at too much because while we find them suspicious, we have no concrete reasoning to lynch them (see Officer Snake).

 

[DarthWolf]

Spoiler: Players / Mentors

Players:

@Officer Snake
@Giri
@Zorchic
@Agent2583
@Felly
@Parissong
@jamiebearcub


Mentors:

@Lone_Garurumon
@HumanDawn
@Doctor Floptopus
@Midorikawa
@Fatima Shadow Frost Witch
@Jinjo
@Superjolt

Votals:
Giri II- Zorchic, Felly
Officer Snake I - Giri
Zorchic I - jamiebearcub


View: https://youtube.com/watch?v=yEr70RGmE0A


Night 3: Blue In The Face

With Giovanni himself dead, the group settled down to return to sleep once more...except for the blue haired man in the gray vest and spacesuit and the green haired man with the robotic eye.

"...so," said the blue haired man, emotionlessly, "Boss Rocket is dead."
"Indeed he is," smirked the green haired man, rubbing his hands together gleefully, "and now I can take my place as the rightful King of Team Rainbow Rocket."
"...you're insane," said the blue haired man, before coming to a realization, "you knew that Giovanni would be killed if we targeted Roxanne. You deliberately set him up."
The green haired man shrugged casually.
"Well, I had my suspicions," he said.
"This whole scenario was your way of eliminating Giovanni so that you could take over Team Rainbow Rocket," stated the blue haired man.
"Quite so," replied the green haired man.
"And how did you figure I wouldn't try to assume control, myself?" asked the blue haired man.
"You're certainly welcome to try," the green haired man said, gritting his teeth, "but that would disrupt your own ambitions. You have no need to run Team Rainbow Rocket, as long as you can use its resources. It would be an unnecessary hassle."
The blue haired man shrugged.
"As you say," he confirmed, "but do not attempt to cross me, or else it will be the last thing you ever do."
He thought for another moment.
"Since the whole purpose of this charade was to eliminate Giovanni, and you have successfully done so, should we just eliminate the remaining member of the resistance now?"
"Nah," objected the green haired man, "we might as well see this thing through to the end at this point."
"Very well," said the blue haired man, "but do not expect me to assist you if this blows up in your face."

Having come to an understanding, the blue haired man and green haired man went their separate ways.

The following day, the group awoke, and, in general, we in a good mood, due to Giovanni's death, but they knew there was still hard work ahead.
"Giovanni may be dead," said the gray haired man in the black uniform, "but his allies are still among us, scheming."
"We'll get them, don't worry," said the woman in the leaf costume, smiling cheerfully.
"...your optimism is astounding," said the masked man, "but it is a breath of fresh air."

Blue was thinking to himself about the man in the uniform's actions.

"He killed several people, mercilessly, without confirming that they were Rockets," he muttered, pacing back and forth subconsciously, "but he only killed Giovanni when it was absolutely clear he was guilty. He even said the Giovanni had been his friend, which he'd have no way of knowing if our minds were wiped."

He stopped pacing and slammed a fist in his palm.
"There's only one conclusion," he said, "he's guilty!"

With a look of determination, he approached the rest of the group.

"I've got a lead!" he exclaimed.

The girl on roller skates, surprised by the sudden exclamation, accidentally crashed into the cave wall.
"Do tell?" asked the man in the spacesuit.

"I know who one of Giovanni's allies is!" proclaimed Professor Oak, "it's that guy!"
He pointed at the man in the black uniform, who scowled darkly.
"I think not," said the green haired man, waving a finger dismissively, "after all, he did just kill Giovanni."
"Yes, but he also killed a lot of other people," countered Blue.
"Only after suspicions had fallen onto them," said the masked man.
"He referred to Giovanni as a friend!" retorted Blue.
"A former friend," corrected the girl on roller skates, who had picked herself up and was dusting herself off.

Blue sighed, completely exasperated at everyone else's ridiculous behavior.

"Come to think of it," said the blue haired man, thoughtfully, "why do we trust you, anyway?"

Professor Oak took an unconscious step backwards.
"Hold on a moment," he said, raising his hands defensively, "I was the one who brought us all together to fight the Rockets in the first place."
"No," said the man in the black uniform, "you brought us all together and into a trap. You doomed us all to death. You've been behind this massacre from the very start, but you made it seem like you wanted to help us overthrow the Rockets."

"I, what? That's ridiculous!" protested the former Gym Leader, but he saw that everyone else was turning against him.
"Ridiculous, is it?" asked the woman wearing leaves, "then how was it that the Rockets were here as soon as we arrived?"
"Or that they immediately had a plan to turn us all against each other?" added the man in the spacesuit.

The group backed Blue into a corner.
"Okay," said the Pokemon Professor, "I didn't want to do this, but you've forced my hand. Go, Pidgeot!"

He sent out his majestic bird, who immediately flapped his wings, and caused a massive whirlwind, which blew back the others, giving Blue some space to breath.
"So that's how it is?" asked the man in the black uniform, "very well. I shall take care of you myself. Go, Persian!"

The man sent out a black cat with a cartoonish face.

"Persian, use Fake Out!" shouted the man in the black uniform.
Instantly, the Persian jumped out and stuck the Pidgeot, causing it to flinch.
"Now!" yelled the gray haired man, "Power Gem!"

The gemstone on the Persian's forehead glowed, and she launched a beam from it, which struck the Pidgeot, weakening it.
"No!" shouted Blue, "Pidgeot, use Air Slash!"

The majestic bird created a scythe out by whipping the air into a large current and sent it flying at the black cat.
"Dodge!" shouted the man in the black uniform, "and use Power Gem once more!"

The Persian leapt up, dodging the attack, and launched another beam from the gemstone on her forehead.
Caught by surprise, the Pidgeot was hit dead on, and fell to the ground, fainted.

"No..." said Blue, backing up against the wall, "don't do this. You don't want to do this!"
"I think I do," said the man with the scarred face.

Blue tried to struggle, but the man in the uniform had hand to hand combat training. He was subdued easily.
Blue turned to the others, pleadingly.
"Please," he begged, "don't let him do this."

The others just turned away, and the man snapped Blue's neck.

Giri has been lynched

Spoiler: Role

Dear Giri,

You are Pidgeot.

Your mentor is Lone_Garurumon, Kanto’s former Champion and current Viridian City Gym Leader, Blue.

Pidgeot, the Normal/Flying-type Bird Pokémon.
It spreads its beautiful wings wide to frighten its enemies. Its well-developed chest muscles make it strong enough to whip up a gusty windstorm with just a few flaps. It can fly at Mach 2 speed.

Spoiler: Trainer's Background

Former rival of Red, who stood up against Giovanni and failed, Blue is a head-strong young man who managed to become Champion of the Kanto region at a surprisingly fast rate. He specialises in no specific type, preferring to use a wide variety of Pokemon to defeat his opponents and keep them on their toes. Though the Pokemon he uses the most is Pidgeot, acting as his trump card and best friend in any situation, able to protect him and help him get around.

Because of your incredible speeds and keen eye from above, under the guidance of your trainer, you are a Cop. The purpose of a Cop is that they can find out what the alignment of a player is. Each night you can discover a player’s alignment by saying Cop Check: [Player] in your Role PM during the Night Phase.

You are Town and win when all threats to you have been wiped out. Your Mentor will win if you do.

They were the Cop
Their mentor was Lone_Garurumon

It is now Night 3
This phase will end in roughly 24 hours Countdown

 

[Felly]

Damn, my gut was wrong. That's the last time I trust that thing.

 

[Giri]

DX
Good luck town

 

[Officer Snake]

Surprising and most people seem towny

 

[jamiebearcub]

Surprising and most people seem towny

Who do you think doesn't then?

Damn, my gut was wrong. That's the last time I trust that thing.

Dangit Felly why