"Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black Teen

[Angad]

Florida’s controversial ‘Stand Your Ground’ law is back on the national stage after the murder of yet another unarmed, black teenager.

Michael Dunn, a 45-year-old Florida resident is invoking the controversial law after a recent confrontation turned fatal, The Orlando Sentinel reports.

According to authorities, 17-year-old Jordan Russell Davis, a black teenager, and several other friends were confronted by Dunn, a white man, who pulled alongside the teens' SUV in the parking lot of a Jacksonville, Fla., gas station. Dunn asked them to turn their music down, and after an exchange of words, he fired between 8 and 9 shots at the vehicle, several of which hit Davis, causing his death.

Dunn was arrested on Saturday and charged with murder and attempted murder, his lawyer said that her client acted "responsibly and in self defense."

During a telephone interview with ABC 12, Dunn’s daughter Rebecca defended her father, saying he did not intend to kill anyone and was responding to a threat.

"He got threatened and had to do what he had to do, and it's sad, so sad," Rebecca Dunn said. "A terrible tragedy on both sides. It really is. I don't know. What are you going to do in that situation? You don't know what you are going to do. He just reacted."

Dunn’s self defense claim falls under Florida’s "Stand Your Ground" law, which was the same claim used in the defense of George Zimmerman, the man accused of murdering 17-year-old Trayvon Martin earlier this year.

Davis was a student at Samuel W. Wolfson High School, a magnet school in Duval County. He will be buried in his hometown of Marietta, Ga. His family plans to start a foundation in his honor for at risk youth who have been the victims of tragedy.

A shame. The "Stand your Ground" law should, at the very least, be reformed to not be so all encompassing.

 

[Dorothy]

Re: "Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black

Reprehensible. Absolutely reprehensible.

 

[ivantuga2]

Re: "Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black

It's horrible that he killed him simply for putting the music too loud, he should have been punished in a different way than that. I've personally suffered a few times for people putting music up too loud, but I would never think to KILL the person doing it.

But as an aside... What about crimes such as the ones committed against Chris Newsom & Channon Christian not exposed to the same extent? Because it's politically incorrect? Who cares about that? It's still a heinous crime...
I just don't get it.

 

[Angad]

Re: "Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black

It's horrible that he killed him simply for putting the music too loud, he should have been punished in a different way than that. I've personally suffered a few times for people putting music up too loud, but I would never think to KILL the person doing it.

But as an aside... What about crimes such as the ones committed against Chris Newsom & Channon Christian not exposed to the same extent? Because it's politically incorrect? Who cares about that? It's still a heinous crime...
I just don't get it.

Even then, having music too loud should, at worst, be a ticket.

Those crimes happened in 2007, they were tragedies but the perpetrators did it with sadistic intention, along with the fact that they were all punished for it. This was a crime of stupidity. along with the state justifying the actions.

 

[Shinobu]

Re: "Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black

I think it's time again to think critically about what we read on the internet.

Dunn’s self defense claim falls under Florida’s "Stand Your Ground" law

Let's remember that the Stand Your Ground law protects people who act in self-defense in dangerous situations. So far no explanation has been provided as to how the situation was dangerous for Dunn. Dunn was charged with murder and attempted murder, which means local authorities were evidently unconvinced that he was actually acting in self-defense.

Anyone can display a self-defense law for their legal defense. That doesn't mean that the circumstances are automatically applicable to the law. Dunn can use the Stand Your Ground law as part of his defense strategy. That doesn't mean it will work.

 

[Angad]

Re: "Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black

I think it's time again to think critically about what we read on the internet.

Dunn’s self defense claim falls under Florida’s "Stand Your Ground" law

Let's remember that the Stand Your Ground law protects people who act in self-defense in dangerous situations. So far no explanation has been provided as to how the situation was dangerous for Dunn. Dunn was charged with murder and attempted murder, which means local authorities were evidently unconvinced that he was actually acting in self-defense.

Anyone can display a self-defense law for their legal defense. That doesn't mean that the circumstances are automatically applicable to the law. Dunn can use the Stand Your Ground law as part of his defense strategy. That doesn't mean it will work.

Fair enough. Watching how this plays out will only show its relevance. The idea is fine, but it shouldn't be a crutch to the stupid to hind behind.

 

[Garren]

Re: "Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black

It's horrible that he killed him simply for putting the music too loud, he should have been punished in a different way than that. I've personally suffered a few times for people putting music up too loud, but I would never think to KILL the person doing it.

Uh, it was a public parking lot. It's not Dunn's responsibility or duty to "punish" the kids at all, and I'm betting the only reason he approached them in the first place was because they were black and listening to loud music, and thus "hoodlums" in his eyes.

But as an aside... What about crimes such as the ones committed against Chris Newsom & Channon Christian not exposed to the same extent? Because it's politically incorrect? Who cares about that? It's still a heinous crime...
I just don't get it.

You don't get it because you are a racist.
Sorry to tell you that, but if the first thought you have upon hearing cases like this is to immediately jump on the reverse-racism wagon and post example of black-on-white crimes that are completely unrelated, then you probably have racist feelings. The same thing happened with the Treyvon case, with every white-supremacist message board like Freep and Stormfront instantly scouring the internet for every black-on-white crime they could find.

In the crime you mentioned, ALL FOUR of the suspects were pretty much instantly charged and brought to court, and received either the death penalty and life in prison...with Zimmerman, he was initially released without being charged, and this case has Dunn attempting to revoke the same law that gained notoriety during the Treyvon case, so of course people are going to talk about it. It shows a flaw in the Florida Legal system that many people believe is a subtle form of racial discrimination, and also factors into the ongoing gun debate.

 

[97SaturnSL1]

Re: "Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black

these crazy crimes are reason 3454 why i dont live in Florida....

anyway, the shooter shouldn't have instagated the situation by going up to the car. that was mistake #1 and could have prevented the whole ordeal. there are just way too many unknowns to see all what all went down. more details are needed to get a full grasp on all what went down

 

[Big Lutz]

Re: "Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black

Uh, it was a public parking lot. It's not Dunn's responsibility or duty to "punish" the kids at all, and I'm betting the only reason he approached them in the first place was because they were black and listening to loud music, and thus "hoodlums" in his eyes.

Can't we wait until the facts come out before we start guessing as to what was in his mind? Have we not all learned atleast that much from the Zimmerman case that how things may look in the beginning may not exactly be how they played out?

 

[Dorothy]

Re: "Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black

Uh, it was a public parking lot. It's not Dunn's responsibility or duty to "punish" the kids at all, and I'm betting the only reason he approached them in the first place was because they were black and listening to loud music, and thus "hoodlums" in his eyes.

Can't we wait until the facts come out before we start guessing as to what was in his mind? Have we not all learned atleast that much from the Zimmerman case that how things may look in the beginning may not exactly be how they played out?

With the facts we currently have, it's a perfectly valid speculation.

 

[Big Lutz]

Re: "Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black

With the facts we currently have, it's a perfectly valid speculation.

Really? We have just.. this.

"Dunn asked them to turn their music down, and after an exchange of words, he fired between 8 and 9 shots at the vehicle, several of which hit Davis, causing his death."

That leaves a rather big hole as to what was said, what made him draw the gun, etc etc. We have only the barest idea of what had happened, but people are already ready to say he did it because he was racist, or that he is guilty here.

Now granted it is easy to look at him as being guilty, especially since there is no shot gun seen even though Dunn claims there was. But still it seems to be rather soon to start assuming his guilt or state of mind before the court case even starts.

 

[Lord Naarghul]

Re: "Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black

It's horrible that he killed him simply for putting the music too loud, he should have been punished in a different way than that. I've personally suffered a few times for people putting music up too loud, but I would never think to KILL the person doing it.

Uh, it was a public parking lot. It's not Dunn's responsibility or duty to "punish" the kids at all, and I'm betting the only reason he approached them in the first place was because they were black and listening to loud music, and thus "hoodlums" in his eyes.

Anyone who plays their music too loud, whether they're black, white, purple, pink, or gold, probably is a either a hoodlum or else a generic stupid kid.

Still on this subject, I reserve judgement until more facts are out. If what is being said is true, then "Stand Your Ground" is not applicable here. It sounds like a case of road rage.

 

[Garren]

Re: "Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black

Uh, it was a public parking lot. It's not Dunn's responsibility or duty to "punish" the kids at all, and I'm betting the only reason he approached them in the first place was because they were black and listening to loud music, and thus "hoodlums" in his eyes.

Can't we wait until the facts come out before we start guessing as to what was in his mind? Have we not all learned atleast that much from the Zimmerman case that how things may look in the beginning may not exactly be how they played out?

When the facts about the Zimmerman case came out, it turned out that a 17-year old boy was shot and killed by a self-employed "neighborhood watchman". There was NO reason that Treyvon had to die, sorry to say.

Anyone who plays their music too loud, whether they're black, white, purple, pink, or gold, probably is a either a hoodlum or else a generic stupid kid.

What is "too loud" though? The only person who apparently had a problem with the music was Dunn. If the kids were violating a noise ordinance, the police would have taken care of it.

The fact is, like with Treyvon, the 17-year old boy DID NOT DESERVE TO DIE. That's all there is to it, it's entirely clear-cut.

 

[Big Lutz]

Re: "Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black

When the facts about the Zimmerman case came out, it turned out that a 17-year old boy was shot and killed by a self-employed "neighborhood watchman". There was NO reason that Treyvon had to die, sorry to say.

Umm no, we did not know about Zimmerman's head wound or nose wound initially, giving the possibility that Zimmerman had to fight for his life, such a thing drastically changes the story as it changes from murder on Zimmerman's part, to a act of survival. Again there is a need to wait till all the information comes out.

 

[Garren]

Re: "Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black

And I STILL don't think Treyvon deserved to die.

Had Zimmerman NOT shot him, I do not think that Zimmerman himself would've died, unless you're into that "purple drank and MMA fighting!" idea. Beyond that, if Treyvon did attack Zimmerman, it was probably because a man was following him around at night in a car and probably felt (correctly, it turns out) that his life was threatened.

 

[Caitlin]

Re: "Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black

Nobody is claiming that Trayvon Martin or this teen deserved to die. As far as Treyvon's case, his life was not threatened just because a man was following him. Both parties acted irresponsibly that night, and placing the blame squarely on George Zimmerman or Treyvon is silly at best.

Regardless, what happened that night has very little to do with what happened this time. The facts are still coming out as the investigation continues. This "guilty until proven innocent" idea is getting a little out of hand. Not just in this case, but everywhere. It's getting quite worrying and quite annoying to see.

 

[Garren]

Re: "Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black

Nobody is claiming that Trayvon Martin or this teen deserved to die. As far as Treyvon's case, his life was not threatened just because a man was following him. Both parties acted irresponsibly that night, and placing the blame squarely on George Zimmerman or Treyvon is silly at best.

If you say that Zimmerman was defending his life when he shot Treyvon, that means that you consider Treyvon's death a necessary reaction. And I'm sorry, but Treyvon was a 17-year old boy that was 5'11 and 158 lbs., and Zimmerman was shorter, but heavier (about 200 or so) and older, not to mention he was also a former bouncer meaning that he was formerly in a position where he would have encountered plenty of fist-fights. There's no reason he would need to shoot Treyvon in order to protect his life, that doesn't make any sense and is a gross over-retaliation.

And I'm sorry I'm not placing the blame of Treyvon, but he's dead. :/

As for the Dunn situation, there was a guy on the last page calling the teens "stupid" for playing their music too loud, as if that is a legitimate reason to shoot someone. For crying out loud, people in this thread ARE trying to say that they deserved to die basically.

This "guilty until proven innocent" idea is getting a little out of hand. Not just in this case, but everywhere. It's getting quite worrying and quite annoying to see.

The only reason the Treyvon shooting occured in the first place was because Zimmerman was following around Treyvon thinking he was guilty of a crime (probably because he was black and wearing a hoodie), so yes, you're right, the "guilty until proven innocent" idea is getting a little out of hand.

And yes, I know you were referring to Zimmerman, but even then the dude wasn't even charged at first despite shooting a kid, and THUS the problem lies. He WAS considered innocent until proven guilty, but to an extent that just wasn't right. And fuck, if you look around after the incident occurred, there were countless people defending Zimmerman by trying to paint Treyvon as a drugged up MMA fighter feral-urban youth and all the other racist dog-whistling you see when stuff like this happens.

Regardless, what happened that night has very little to do with what happened this time.

Yes it does, as in both situations the Florida's "Stand Your Ground" law was brought up, and in both situations an older man basically took it upon himself to enforce "law" upon a teenager...and in both situations, a teenager ends up dead. They display a prominent issue with gun laws and, even if people like to cover their ears and cherry pick any black-on-white crime they can find, racism. There's no doubt in my mind Zimmerman followed Treyvon because he was black, and there's no doubt that Dunn probably saw some black kids listening to music and jumped into action because they were "hoodlums".

 

[Big Lutz]

Re: "Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black

And I STILL don't think Treyvon deserved to die.

Had Zimmerman NOT shot him, I do not think that Zimmerman himself would've died, unless you're into that "purple drank and MMA fighting!" idea. Beyond that, if Treyvon did attack Zimmerman, it was probably because a man was following him around at night in a car and probably felt (correctly, it turns out) that his life was threatened.

We have no idea what either of them were thinking, however Zimmerman's head and nose was bashed in, giving credence to the story that he was on the ground with Trevyon bashing the back of his head in. If you think Zimmerman would have survived that, that is fine. However by law Zimmerman had the ability to react in self defense since Trevyon was engaging in a action that would have possibly killed Zimmerman.

There's no doubt in my mind Zimmerman followed Treyvon because he was black, and there's no doubt that Dunn probably saw some black kids listening to music and jumped into action because they were "hoodlums".

It seems you are acting almost as of a mind reader here, almost as if you WANT to find racism especially in this case when we have such little information.

 

[Caitlin]

Re: "Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black

If you say that Zimmerman was defending his life when he shot Treyvon, that means that you consider Treyvon's death a necessary reaction.

Excuse me, but don't tell me what I mean when I know far better what I meant in saying that than anybody else. Nobody's life was threatened until the fists started flying, and going by current evidence, Treyvon threw the first punch.

When Zimmerman made that snap decision to reach for his gun, he felt that his life was in danger. Considering the beating he got, it likely was. However, that does not justify Treyvon's death, nor does it mean it was a necessary reaction.

And please, drop the racism bullshit. Defending a man from the "guilty until proven innocent" crowd just because he's a white man and the victim is black is not an indicator of racism.

 

[Garren]

Re: "Michael Dunn, Florida Man, Invokes 'Stand Your Ground' Law After Shooting Black

We have no idea what either of them were thinking, however Zimmerman's head and nose was bashed in, giving credence to the story that he was on the ground with Trevyon bashing the back of his head in. If you think Zimmerman would have survived that, that is fine. However by law Zimmerman had the ability to react in self defense since Trevyon was engaging in a action that would have possibly killed Zimmerman.

Zimmerman could have fought back with his fists, like I said he was a former bodyguard and the two were more than likely an even match physically, Zimmerman probably edging out a bit. There's no need to use a gun and shoot the kid, and if he was able to grab his gun, surely his hands were free? I don't believe one bit that shooting Treyvon was the answer, and Zimmerman should pay for what he did.

It seems you are acting almost as of a mind reader here, almost as if you WANT to find racism especially in this case when we have such little information.

You don't have to be a mind reader to think that a white, Florida gun-store owner started the whole incident in the first place due to racial profiling. It's pretty likely that's exactly what went down.

Excuse me, but don't tell me what I mean when I know far better what I meant in saying that than anybody else. Nobody's life was threatened until the fists started flying, and going by current evidence, Treyvon threw the first punch.

Excuse me, but I was referring to Big Lutz's post, not yours.

Treyvon was being followed around in the middle of the night by a strange man in a car who had a gun and ended up shooting Treyvon. Why are you disregarding that? If you're being stalked in the night, and the man who has been doing it approaches you, isn't that a situation where you'd feel threatened? Why are you two both ignoring that factor and acting like Treyvon randomly attacked Zimmerman? Zimmerman was in the wrong for following Treyvon around, and shouldn't have approached him. He was asking for trouble, and with Dunn, it seems like he did the same thing...pick a fight with some kids listening to music.

nd please, drop the racism bullshit. Defending a man from the "guilty until proven innocent" crowd just because he's a white man and the victim is black is not an indicator of racism.

No, because I definitely think it was racial profiling that Zimmerman followed Treyvon in the first place. You can tell me to cut the bullshit all you want, but that's what I believe and I'm sticking too it. If you feel such a strong urge to defend the living, white man who shot a guy, then fine. In both situations, they shot someone who was, according to all known details, were unarmed, and that's wrong. I don't see why you both are so eager to defend two men who ARE getting a trial and will be be properly judged for their actions instead of, you know, the people who fucking died.