MATURE: Miscellaneous TPP stories

[Patrick Haines]

Random First Thought: You need to add HIM to your Index.

It’s true that it would probably be very possible to clone another from the fossil. They did it once, can’t be hard to do it again. But it wouldn’t be Him. It wouldn’t remember me. It’d be a spit in the face of His memory. It’d wear His face, have His voice, it could even learn about these things and learn to behave just like Him, but it wouldn’t be Him. Because He is dead. His soul, His consciousness, it’s gone. And there’s that word again.

I fully level with this viewpoint and I think you did an excellent job expressing it. It is very common place to replace something that you have lost with something new, yet you always have that feeling that it just "isn´t the same" because that is the truth.
I am a little confused as to and there is that word again. What word? Gone. It isn't very clear. Since you repeat it seven times beforehand and a few times after, I assume, but it takes a bit of searching to narrow it down.

...No. I think there’s one point left. Fonz knew that was a point, it’s why he said what he said. My mother knows it’s a point, it’s why she isn’t here doing what Fonz asked her to. It annoys me to think that going through with it will likely bring her great satisfaction, but I believe the relief I’ll get will outweigh the disappointment thousandfold.

I think the use of mother here is well used (is that what 15 year olds call their parents? I am getting too old to remember, but I still use 'mom', not 'mother'), but Fonz seems out of place. It might be easier to describe who Fonz is (cousin, friend, brother, father) instead of using the name. It only appears in the narrative twice and he is surrounded by mystery. I don't think he really needs a name at all. For me, my mind just jumped to the show from the 60s and 70s.

Only now, I’m beginning to see the truth. Death will come. There’s no point in avoiding it. But there is one in bringing it in advance. Ending the pain. The pain that I wish I could rise above, but I’m just a human. Maybe if I was a god, I could, but I’m not and never will be.

First of all, I love this passage. Second, I don't understand what one refers to in the fourth sentence. One point? Or something else? Or is that the wrong word? I read it several times, but I don't really get it.

It tries asking those questions I once asked. Why do you care? It’s not you, is it? I wish it had been. I wish I didn’t have to be alive to witness this. I wish the feraligatr had had just a little more bloodlust in him and finished me off as well. ‘Slain’ me too. ‘Slay’. I used to like that word. Now it’s almost as bad as ‘gone’.

Red.

Yes, that’s my name. Or nickname, but… who called me?

No one said anything. I can’t remember any voice. But I was called.

Red. It happened again. It’s like I reacted to nothing, but clearly it can’t be nothing if I reacted.

Am I falling asleep and losing touch with the real world? That’s possible, but something like this has never happened during that trance-like state. Am I… am I going insane? Is this what it feels like to ‘hear things’? Has His death scarred me so badly that my brain has started malfunctioning?

Fossil. I saw the fossil. But it wasn’t in my sight. Only in my mind, without reason. Why would I think of that now? It has nothing to do with what I was thinking about.

Red. Again. Called. It’s called me three times now. Did it also give me that… image of the fossil? Does it want me to get the fossil?

Yes. How do I know that? What convinced me of that? I just know, and I don’t know why I know.

I am your god.”

The statue. The statue spoke. It didn’t move, but I heard a voice. This time there really was a voice.

It was deep. Resounding. Masculine. Yet still gentle somehow.

The question I’m about to ask is stupid, but necessary,

“Is it You, my lord?”

“Yes… and no.”

What does that mean?

“He houses my spirit, but not my soul.”

Did he read my mind? He must have. The non-voice did answer a question before.

“I am a god. Your mind is open to me.”

So… do I need to speak?

“You need not, but I can sense this voiceless way of conversing unsettles you. You shall speak.”

Okay. Alright. I guess that might be easier.

“What did you mean by ‘spirit’?” I ask.

Ok, so your first person narration is impressive. I can not write that style to save my life, but it takes a final balance and you did it pretty well. A couple of things from these phrases could be refined though.
--You established in the early dictation that when Red is having active thoughts instead of narration, it would be in italics to avoid confusion. That is good.
-- Later on, when Red is being called, it still seems like he is actively thinking, not narrating, but no italics. It isn't difficult to follow because of the way the narration is spaced, but italicizing it might help the reader a little.
--The final quote has the same problem as the second, in which some of the more active thoughts should be italicized. This portion is actually a little difficult to follow because you have a second speaker, narration, and Red's thoughts, so the italics would be a huge help.
---At the end, when Red thinks So… do I need to speak? makes it extremely obvious that he is actively thinking/partially speaking in his own mind, if that helps portray what I am trying to say.
-There are some other places in the story that might benefit from 'active thought italics' too

-You may also what to differentiate the whispers/sounds that Red is hearing/being called. You already use italics and 'quotes' elsewhere, but it might be interesting if you changed the font style or size (I wouldn't recommend bold). It would be unique and would clarify that it isn't being narrated by Red. Example:

Red.

Yes, that’s my name. Or nickname, but… who called me?

No one said anything. I can’t remember any voice. But I was called.

Red. It happened again. It’s like I reacted to nothing, but clearly it can’t be nothing if I reacted.

OR...

Red.

Yes, that’s my name. Or nickname, but… who called me?

No one said anything. I can’t remember any voice. But I was called.

Red. It happened again. It’s like I reacted to nothing, but clearly it can’t be nothing if I reacted.

Am I falling asleep and losing touch with the real world? That’s possible, but something like this has never happened during that trance-like state. Am I… am I going insane? Is this what it feels like to ‘hear things’? Has His death scarred me so badly that my brain has started malfunctioning?

I really liked this passage and it does an excellent job of illustrating the complexities of the human mind and thought process. I am writing a story that explores some of the more insane ideas that a mind has, so it really resonated for me.

It seems the voice is speaking through the boy. Took me a bit to get that, as Kohath’s voice is still used. His pitch is about the same as mine and others our age, but he speaks in the same way as the voice before did.

I had to re-read this several times before understanding what you were saying and it still doesn't make the most sense or really flow at all. I think the major problem is the tense change (seems, speaking, speaks are present/progressive tense and used is past), but I think this could use with a re-wording in general.

He reached for the vengeance he’d dreamt of all these years and plucked it like a fresh pecha.

All those years, past tense.

“In just a while, you understand,” he says. “Having sold his masters’ miltank, he left town, carrying along my vessel. I continued to advise and train him as he survived in the wilds by hunting. With my help, he became like one of nature's own, only blessed with superior wit and spells of my creation. Disease avoided him, kept away by my healing touch.”

"In just a while, you will understand,"

Overall thoughts...

-Again, excellent job on the self-narration, it was pretty easy to follow and, with a few tweeks, it could be easier.
-The beginning was a bit rough. I had to re-read the first dozen or so lines a couple of times each to really get into the flow of the story. Now that I have read the story, the opening makes more sense, but going in blind threw me a little bit.
-I think you portray a very realistic viewpoint of someone who is deeply grieving in the opening stanzas. The emotion is very real and relatable, not the over-the-top drama you see in a lot of characters.
-This isn't a positive or a negative, just something I think is worth mentioning. The opening narration is written almost in the form or style of a poem, which makes for a good read, but then it shifts hardcore when the narration starts to a more standard, self-narrated story. There is a clear break in the story that the shift comes with, so it isn't a problem, just thought it was interesting.
-Most of the fics I have read/the ones I write, capitolize Pokémon names (Ferligatr, Pichu) and item names (Pecha). Obviously, you don't have to and you consistently don't throughout the story, just a point of interest.
-The suicidal options running through Red's head are interesting. They cover the more common ones and give some insight into what someone suicidual might be thinking, which is not something I have ever thought of before. I like stories that make me think or give me interesting insight on subjects that I haven't given much thought, so well done
--This is further supported by Kohath rationalizing a reason NOT to kill himself later in the story.
-Nice explanation of how an aquatic fossil ended up at Mt. Moon. Kind of wish you had thrown in something about Kabuto too
-I have read some mature fics and the topics within were bothersome, but you presented cannabalism/suicide in a fashion that was very palatable.
--The cannabalism was interesting because of the way you rationalized it and it does seem to have some ground in a world where sentient Pokémon are also eaten (I think most people tend to present it as a moral dilemma, but the Pokémon argument calms that argument somewhat)

-Mild curiousity, why Omastar? As a fossil, he fits well into that portion of the story, but it is, for me, an odd choice.

Ok, so the rest of this may be confusing, but I will do my best to explain what I am thinking about without being insanely wordy. Here we go.

-A plot point that I had trouble with was Red very quickly changing his mind about replacing his god. He clearly stated, early on, that Omastar couldn't be replaced (which I agree with), yet was quickly seduced by a new god that wants to do exactly that. Helix outright states that he isn't HIM (which I am confused about, but I will get to that later), but Red seems pretty ready to jump in head first. He is skeptical, and Helix does say he can bring back his old god in a way, but the shift in his thinking is a little abrubt.

-Though the story is clearly about Helix and not the old Omastar (Him? I am a little confused who Him refers to because He was clearly the original Omastar in the early story, but it became blurred later on), I am more interested in the original. Why did Red think he was a god? Why did he worship him? If he is a god, how was he killed by a Feraligatr? (Also curious, since it was mentioned, why Feraligatr didn't kill Red too?) Did he have abilities beyond a normal Omastar? Perhaps that is a completely different story, but the story clearly hints that it was divinity AND a deep affection that tied Red to his original Omastar, but there is no mention of how/why the first Omastar was divine?

-Helix confuses me so much. He in an Omastar, he was Kohath's Omastar, but he wasn't Red's Omastar? Part of him was Red's Omastar? He has the ability to revive Red's Omastar? The story was well told, but I find myself asking more questions than got answered.
--The portion of Helix that confuses me the most is his story. Why would he tell that story to Red? If he is trying to convince Red to release him (which it seems like he needs) than the story seems counterproductive. He is labeled as the God of Chaos and paints himself in a light that screams EVIL GOD. I condone the murder of anyone who gets in my way (even if they slightly deserve it), I turned my most loyal follower into an animal of some kind, I will do whatever it takes to get more followers, and world conquest is (essentially) my ultimate goal. Nothing that Helix said should be convincing to anyone (unless they are evil too, which isn't typically how Red is type-cast) to join his side. I understand that Red is tempted by the resurrection of his old Omastar (kind of reminds me of how Anakin became Darth Vader), but Helix promises that will happen whether he decides to follow him or not.
---All-in-all, I suppose I would expect a character like Helix to be more manipulative/lie to get his way, not paint himself as a villain to someone he wants to follow him
-The fact that Helix is trapped in stone also supports the evil god theory, since that is a commonly used trope for imprisoning powerful creatures that can not be killed.
-Final concern about Helix. If he has the ability to grant people magic, heal them, and foresee the future, how did he die/become trapped in stone? Why does he need boys (Kohath/Red) to lead for him? His story paints a picture of divinity, but his current situation makes it difficult to believe. (Including the fact that he was somehow trapped and needed rescured by Kohath, but that could have been a ploy to gain Kohath's trust. Though, I suppose, the same could be said now for what he is doing to Red).

I know your story was a one-off, but I want to know more (which is really a sign that you are a good story-teller). Too many hanging questions, not enough answers. I understand the purpose of the story (I just wrote a similar character piece for a competition), but I feel like you could do more/expand on this. Good writing though, when I have some time, I may dive into more of your stories.

 

[canisaries]

Thanks for the read and extensive reply!

First, you'll be happy to hear that there's a pretty simple explanation to a lot of the questions you have. This is, indeed, part of a bigger whole, and there's context not apparent from this oneshot - I try to keep these readable by themselves, but sometimes there's just too much stuff to pull that off so well. Anyway, characters such as Fonz (who actually is named after the character you thought of!) and Helix come from TPP. That stands for Twitch Plays Pokémon, a community that plays Pokémon games on a stream through a "shared controller" and makes stories and art based on the events occurring - it was really big for a while when it started in 2014 but nowadays is a lot smaller - and it's what this story is fanfiction of. Helix being a godly Omanyte/Omastar resurrected from the Helix Fossil is a big part of the "lore", as it's called, and I admit I occasionally lean too much on people having heard about it through memes and assume everyone automatically knows what's being talking about.

I really should have put this in the first post and I'm actually surprised to look back and find out I didn't, because I sure remember doing it for just about all of my other TPP-related threads. I'll add a little summary there now to avoid more confusion in the future. Also added HIM to the index, thanks for pointing that out.

Anyway, onto the story itself:

I'm very glad to hear that the representation of loss feels accurate. Back when I wrote this story, I hadn't actually lost anyone even a little close to me, so I was a bit anxious on if I could imagine and portray how a person would feel correctly. The suicidal bits, unfortunately, I did write more from experience, having experienced said thoughts myself.

I am a little confused as to and there is that word again. What word? Gone. It isn't very clear. Since you repeat it seven times beforehand and a few times after, I assume, but it takes a bit of searching to narrow it down.

It is indeed "gone". It was referred to as "that word" a couple times before ("Gone. That word just hurts so much" and "I used to like that word. Now it’s almost as bad as ‘gone’"), so I was leaning on it being fresh in people's memory, but now I'm not so sure.

First of all, I love this passage. Second, I don't understand what one refers to in the fourth sentence. One point? Or something else? Or is that the wrong word? I read it several times, but I don't really get it.

It's "point", yes. The implied sentence was intended to be this: "There is a point in bringing death in advance - ending the pain".

Ok, so your first person narration is impressive. I can not write that style to save my life, but it takes a final balance and you did it pretty well. A couple of things from these phrases could be refined though.
--You established in the early dictation that when Red is having active thoughts instead of narration, it would be in italics to avoid confusion. That is good.
-- Later on, when Red is being called, it still seems like he is actively thinking, not narrating, but no italics. It isn't difficult to follow because of the way the narration is spaced, but italicizing it might help the reader a little.
--The final quote has the same problem as the second, in which some of the more active thoughts should be italicized. This portion is actually a little difficult to follow because you have a second speaker, narration, and Red's thoughts, so the italics would be a huge help.
---At the end, when Red thinks So… do I need to speak? makes it extremely obvious that he is actively thinking/partially speaking in his own mind, if that helps portray what I am trying to say.
-There are some other places in the story that might benefit from 'active thought italics' too

Actually, the italics aren't meant to be active thought - they're basically quotes (of past Red), but I didn't use actual quotes as I didn't want it mixed up with actual dialogue. (Present) Red's thoughts are inseparable from his narration, as they're not necessarily meant to be monologue but rather a verbal interpretation of what goes through his mind. We know people don't say "I sit down on the bed" as they sit down on the bed, but they're still thinking about sitting down on the bed... although I'll say that narration of all these actions isn't present to be realistic to how a person's thoughts flow, but because it's extremely difficult to impossible to describe what's going on if the narration never mentions any actions the protagonist does.

Put shorter, Red's thoughts are indeed intended to be in non-italics.

-You may also what to differentiate the whispers/sounds that Red is hearing/being called. You already use italics and 'quotes' elsewhere, but it might be interesting if you changed the font style or size (I wouldn't recommend bold). It would be unique and would clarify that it isn't being narrated by Red.

I kind of want it to be narrated by Red, actually. The intention is to show how Red isn't exactly spoken to and he knows it, but feels like he's being communicated with - this is due to concepts being directly given to him telepathically rather than through a medium like voice or even language. I'd actually remove the name drops entirely... if it wasn't for the fact that it could get far harder to read very easily. For now, the mentions of Red's name - and the other messages too, for that matter - are kind of Red reacting to the communication by piecing it back together into language. Later on, HELIX moves on to conversing with Red in human language to make Red feel more at ease.

It's pretty odd, but then again, odd is what I'm going for.

I had to re-read this several times before understanding what you were saying and it still doesn't make the most sense or really flow at all. I think the major problem is the tense change (seems, speaking, speaks are present/progressive tense and used is past), but I think this could use with a re-wording in general.

I agree it's an odd sentence and a difficult concept to convey in general... I'll look into it and see if I can make it clearer.

-A plot point that I had trouble with was Red very quickly changing his mind about replacing his god. He clearly stated, early on, that Omastar couldn't be replaced (which I agree with), yet was quickly seduced by a new god that wants to do exactly that. Helix outright states that he isn't HIM (which I am confused about, but I will get to that later), but Red seems pretty ready to jump in head first. He is skeptical, and Helix does say he can bring back his old god in a way, but the shift in his thinking is a little abrubt.

I can see it feeling abrupt... to me, it wasn't much of a problem as the two entities do sort of occupy different niches in his life in the end, but I'll reconsider that and think about this.

-Though the story is clearly about Helix and not the old Omastar (Him? I am a little confused who Him refers to because He was clearly the original Omastar in the early story, but it became blurred later on), I am more interested in the original. Why did Red think he was a god? Why did he worship him? If he is a god, how was he killed by a Feraligatr? (Also curious, since it was mentioned, why Feraligatr didn't kill Red too?) Did he have abilities beyond a normal Omastar? Perhaps that is a completely different story, but the story clearly hints that it was divinity AND a deep affection that tied Red to his original Omastar, but there is no mention of how/why the first Omastar was divine?

-Helix confuses me so much. He in an Omastar, he was Kohath's Omastar, but he wasn't Red's Omastar? Part of him was Red's Omastar? He has the ability to revive Red's Omastar? The story was well told, but I find myself asking more questions than got answered.

inhales deeply

Okay, so, there are actually two "Helixes": Helix (referred to as Him) and HELIX (referred to as HIM). Helix is whose death Red is mourning and whom he wishes he could get back. Helix is what was cloned from the fossil, and functions as a rather normal Omanyte/Omastar, but is tied to HELIX in a way HE described to Red as "housing HIS spirit, but not HIS soul" - "spirit" being something HE draws godly power from, but "soul" meaning consciousness. Why Red considered Helix a god is tied to TPP lore, which I won't go deep into and will just say that the "Voices" mentioned once in the story convinced Red of this. Either way: Kohath's Omastar was actually HELIX, and Helix only came to existence during Red's lifetime - He has His own consciousness and is His own person with whom Red bonded.

Red believed that, if he were to clone another Omanyte from the fossil, it would be exactly that - a clone of Helix, but not Helix Himself, as that Helix was dead. But what HELIX offered was to bring back the Helix Red knew, same consciousness (referred to as "soul") and everything. HE says this is possible due to HIS spirit being tied to His soul, and this would also allow Him to retain memories from the previous life. (This is kind of the most "godly" Helix actually is.)

Currently, HIS consciousness is tied to the fossil, but no living vessel (unlike during Kohath's time, when it was bound to an Omastar body). Previously, HE could not speak to Red due to a large part of HIS spirit being tied to Him, but as He died, that portion returned to HIM. Spirit is where HE draws his power, to reiterate. It also regenerates over time, though faster in living vessels... but I've probably talked enough about this already.

If you're wondering why this is such a mess, it's because I dug myself into this hole with poor planning in beginning stages of establishing the universe and when I realized how complicated it was, I was already too far in and couldn't find any way to change what I had without a lot of stories collapsing. Now I'm just kind of trying my best to explain this disaster. shrug

--The portion of Helix that confuses me the most is his story. Why would he tell that story to Red? If he is trying to convince Red to release him (which it seems like he needs) than the story seems counterproductive. He is labeled as the God of Chaos and paints himself in a light that screams EVIL GOD. I condone the murder of anyone who gets in my way (even if they slightly deserve it), I turned my most loyal follower into an animal of some kind, I will do whatever it takes to get more followers, and world conquest is (essentially) my ultimate goal. Nothing that Helix said should be convincing to anyone (unless they are evil too, which isn't typically how Red is type-cast) to join his side. I understand that Red is tempted by the resurrection of his old Omastar (kind of reminds me of how Anakin became Darth Vader), but Helix promises that will happen whether he decides to follow him or not.
---All-in-all, I suppose I would expect a character like Helix to be more manipulative/lie to get his way, not paint himself as a villain to someone he wants to follow him

These are all valid questions to wonder, and the answer comes from Red's character. It's not as in-your-face as it could be, but Red is pretty different from the average human. In the beginning half, you can see he's been extremely cold and unempathetic towards other people, not being able to understand their grief as he himself had never felt that strong a connection to another living being. This was before He came along, and through some mind-twisting stuff Red went through (blah blah blah more TPP again), he happened to form an extremely strong bond with Him (partly due to being convinced He was a god). However, Red still retains that coldness towards everyone else, which is partly why he's so easily convinced of cannibalism being okay. For context, he grows up to be a serial killer. This is kind of a "start of darkness" in that way. HELIX remarks on how "[HE] is the perfect god for [Red]", aware that Red has a morbid side to him HE can cater to, a side the other humans have rejected.

-The fact that Helix is trapped in stone also supports the evil god theory, since that is a commonly used trope for imprisoning powerful creatures that can not be killed.
-Final concern about Helix. If he has the ability to grant people magic, heal them, and foresee the future, how did he die/become trapped in stone? Why does he need boys (Kohath/Red) to lead for him? His story paints a picture of divinity, but his current situation makes it difficult to believe. (Including the fact that he was somehow trapped and needed rescured by Kohath, but that could have been a ploy to gain Kohath's trust. Though, I suppose, the same could be said now for what he is doing to Red).

So this fic didn't go too deeply in that, but HELIX mentions HE "had foreseen the fall of [HIS] beloved clan and devised a way to preserve [HIMSELF] for a better time". This method of preservation is actually that fossil itself, which HE managed to tie HIS consciousness and spirit into so that when cloning technology was developed, HE could be resurrected. In HIS current state, HIS powers are still limited, and this is why HE requires servants.

And you are indeed right on seeing through HIS ruse to gain Kohath's trust! Kohath did later figure this out, but as HE had helped him in so many other says, he didn't hold it against HIM.

Oh dear, this turned out to be a longer reply than I intended. Hope I answered at least a bit, though, and didn't bore you to death, haha. Once again, thanks for reading!

 

[Patrick Haines]

That's interesting and good to know. I am pretty proud of myself for understanding some of what I did, haha. I guess I should have read What is TPP? in the first post, but I jumped straight to this one. With a little more background, it makes a lot more sense and is really interesting.

Last little piece of advice though with stories like this, include everything you can. You already know the lore and the background, but not everyone else does, so you have to be as detailed as possible. This would be a fantastic read for people familiar with TPP, but falls a little short of the mark with those inexperienced. I recently completed a short story challenge where I had a similar problem. I had only 2000 words to write a story that I could have down in 10,000. My first couple of drafts were always because I was assuming that everyone else knew the same thing I did, which they don't. The story made sense to me, everyone else was scratching their heads. It eventually came together (thankfully).

With your story and the background you added in your response though, everyone should be able to get a deeper feeling of TPP, Red, and Helix. Good job.

 

[Snuggle Tier List]

Hello, canis. HIM was quite the read; it touched on some very personal experiences that are absolutely skewing this review. I don't think it's "good" in the "did you enjoy this fic?" sense, but it made me self-examine more than anything else I've read in the Writer's Workshop. My thoughts are complicated; let me try to organize them.

Image
Bits and bobs I personally don't believe necessarily affect your fic's quality, but do affect how it's perceived​

Mature Rating
Fron my wandering around these parts, if your fic is rated Mature, it gains an "edgy" stigma. An unfair stigma, but a stigma nevertheless. This is based on anecdotal evidence from a fellow author who's published under the Mature rating; I've witnessed discussion both of my fic's Mature rating and Mature ratings in general, and it's rarely been positive.

I have a feeling you're the kind of person who writes Mature fic with pride, but if you do want to detach yourself from what I believe is stigma, I think HIM could become a Teen fic without affecting it's substance. The bulk of Mature content is Red's suicide idealization, and I think this fic could still work if Red's early thoughts weren't explicit. Stoic, matter-of-fact prose of Red staying in bed for days mixed with random existential comments would get his "I have nothing to do and no reason for doing anything" state of mind across. You could then cut to Red on the ledge, thinking about the decision he's about to make. Perhaps some doubt creeps in, only for him to admit "I don't know what else to do"; not an endorsement, but an explanation. That, plus the sparse strong language (perhaps cut the early "Hell"?) and non-vivid mention of cannibalism could lower your rating. If you even want to, that is; an equally valid response would be "I don't cave to stigma, I don't need to change this".

The Word "Him" (Word Choice)
I have a serial killer book on my shelf called You. The gimmick is that the viewpoint character is so obsessed with a certain person, they frame all their sentences around them via the word "you". I got similar vibes from HIM's sentence structure, but I was confused by the execution.

Since I read up on my TPP lore, I already knew who "Him" was going in. But addressing someone you respect highly as just "Him" made me feel like I was missing something. If Red clearly respects or at least adores Lord Helix, wouldn't he think about them in less dehumanizing/more personal terms? I.e. "my god", "my only meaning", etc. It's not a huge issue — my mind replaced "He" and "Him" with "Lord Helix" as I read — but the word choice was repeated so much, it did end up becoming distracting. It's a nitpick that I don't think contributed to your fic's quality, but it was a highly visible nitpick that I think could be whisked away either with a line of exposition explaining Red's word choice or adjusting his use of one particular word.

Substance
Bits and bobs I personally believe do affect the quality of your work, but not necessarily how it's perceived​

Red (Overview)
From here on, this review's drawing from deeply affecting personal experiences.

I do emphasize with Red, but I'm confused by his decisions. I, like him, have spent days in bed questioning my existence. But I choose to live, and that's because fuck everyone that wants me to die, if just living makes them suffer, I will live. Red's narration implies Mom would "win" if he died and that he wants to send a "fuck you" to the world. He spent days lying in bed before making his decision; there's plenty of time to at least consider living out of spite. Which, to me, made Red's motivations vague and possibly contradictory.

However, there is a possibility Red's psyche is being manipulated by...

Lord Helix
I do not emphasize with HIM's Lord Helix. I think it's pretty clear Lord Helix's ideology would cause immense harm, which left me rather uninterested in his dialogue with Red. But even if Lord Helix has good intentions, his methods are so unsympathetic that the ends don't justify the means. The Helixian Kingdom failed. Red's possession by the voices left his psyche broken. Lord Helix has no regard for collateral damage; I'm not buying anything he's selling.

This doesn't necessarily mean Lord Helix is a bad character. However, if I view Lord Helix as a villain, they don't scare me. Lord Helix's powers are so vast and fantastical, they don't feel real. And with Red's motivations vague, I don't feel scared for Red, because Red doesn't feel real, either.

Red's Mental Healthcare (or rather, lack thereof)
I think it's rather obvious Red needs therapy. Yet after reading the fic and the basics of TPP lore, I don't know why therapy isn't being considered. Red, as a minor, obviously has serious trauma and possibly anti-social personality disorder (Lord Helix said “You do not feel like other humans,” but since I don't trust Lord Helix, he could be playing off Red's damaged psyche). The fact that none of the adults Red's encountered over the course of his previous journeys even mentioned the possibility of professional help is unbelievable, considering Red's mental state. Red is 15; he by now is at least vaguely aware mental healthcare exists.

Now, it might be in his character to dismiss mental health entirely ("who could understand?"), but once he does that, he loses all my sympathy. Because good therapists and psychiatrists and psychologists can understand. Especially therapists; the golden rule of therapy is "don't tell them what to believe; make them believe on their own". Red would be given the opportunity to prove his story, and unlike most over-the-deep-end people I've met in therapists' waiting rooms, Red can.

And on a personal level, I have multiple people in my personal life with serious mental health issues that refuse to get help for a variety of reasons, and because of that, they have harmed themselves and others. Harming yourself is pitiful; harming others requires atonement. And HIM has Red do the exact opposite of atone. Red may have started from a sympathetic position, but his decisions over the fic made him boring. He knows he needs help, yet he seeks eldritch gods instead of professional help; I know how this story ends.

But there's a reason I bring mental healthcare up last. I think HIM could make a good horror story with one tweak: Red needs to seek help. Starting this fic with an official PokéDepartment of Mental Health letter stating "you need help but we're overcrowded so fuck you LOL" (paraphrase) would make Red's suicide attempt much more understandable. Maybe a phone call to a suicide hotline only to hear "All of our operators are currently engaged", or getting denied therapy due to an insurance mishap. The more attempts Red makes to seek help, the more sympathetic he becomes. And then, since I'd sympathize with Red, I'd feel like he's a real person with a damaged psyche desperately seeking happiness. And because of that, I'd be scared for him as Lord Helix drags him away from real help. One bad decision by someone whose psyche is being manipulated shouldn't doom their lives. Watching Lord Helix exploit a believable and sympathetic Red would be terrifying.

Closing Thoughts​

I think HIM as a conventional story could work if it received some small tweaks. As it stands, I couldn't sympathize with Red, and that lacking keystone handicapped the fic. But regardless of that, it made me think about some of my deepest personal experiences. I'm not sure I'm a typical reader, but your fic has left me with something of value. Thank you for writing this; it was therapeutic in a way I've never seen.

 

[canisaries]

Thank you for the read and review - I'll post my thoughts on the review format itself in its dedicated thread later on when I've finished them. In this post, I'll just be replying as the story's author.

Since I read up on my TPP lore, I already knew who "Him" was going in. But addressing someone you respect highly as just "Him" made me feel like I was missing something. If Red clearly respects or at least adores Lord Helix, wouldn't he think about them in less dehumanizing/more personal terms? I.e. "my god", "my only meaning", etc. It's not a huge issue — my mind replaced "He" and "Him" with "Lord Helix" as I read — but the word choice was repeated so much, it did end up becoming distracting. It's a nitpick that I don't think contributed to your fic's quality, but it was a highly visible nitpick that I think could be whisked away either with a line of exposition explaining Red's word choice or adjusting his use of one particular word.

Well, actually, the reason Red uses "Him" instead of "Helix" is exactly because of respect. It's a common thing in religion to avoid saying a powerful entity's name due to fear of consequences or appearing disrespectful (i.e."Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain"). My Red formed this rule for himself and now enforces it to a possibly compulsive degree. But it is true that mentioning this somewhere would be an improvement, and isn't in any way hard to implement, so I'll work it in.

I do emphasize with Red, but I'm confused by his decisions. I, like him, have spent days in bed questioning my existence. But I choose to live, and that's because fuck everyone that wants me to die, if just living makes them suffer, I will live. Red's narration implies Mom would "win" if he died and that he wants to send a "fuck you" to the world. He spent days lying in bed before making his decision; there's plenty of time to at least consider living out of spite. Which, to me, made Red's motivations vague and possibly contradictory.

I have to disagree on this - it's possible I didn't present it well enough and it didn't come through, but Red truly doesn't care about the opinions others have of him (enough to give them higher value than his own feelings, at least). It wouldn't make sense for him to consider "living out of spite" when he considers his pain the most important factor in his life and also mentions how nothing would matter to him after death, which would make him unable to regret dying and "letting someone else win". His mother was meant to be more of a side note, just an observation on a person that doesn't really like him. The FU is of similar weight.

You may have guessed already, but I've been in suicidal states such as these myself, going two years strong on diagnosed depression and probably longer undiagnosed. Red's logic here overlaps a bunch with mine from those times, though I have the difference of always being convinced to live because of not being able to do that to my family. As for living out of spite, I don't see the appeal, so it didn't seem off to me to have Red agree on that front.

Lord Helix's powers are so vast and fantastical, they don't feel real.

I've actually had some trouble setting believable limits on HELIX's power, so this is a useful point for me to hear. Can you specify which powers and how they appear vast? Visions, healing and slow mutation don't seem too extreme to me, and that's most of them, but your view may be different.

I think it's rather obvious Red needs therapy. Yet after reading the fic and the basics of TPP lore, I don't know why therapy isn't being considered. Red, as a minor, obviously has serious trauma and possibly anti-social personality disorder (Lord Helix said “You do not feel like other humans,” but since I don't trust Lord Helix, he could be playing off Red's damaged psyche). The fact that none of the adults Red's encountered over the course of his previous journeys even mentioned the possibility of professional help is unbelievable, considering Red's mental state. Red is 15; he by now is at least vaguely aware mental healthcare exists.

Red is, indeed, written with the intent of being ASPD or somewhere on the spectrum. It's part of why he's so surprised that he's able to mourn. It's known, though, that many personality disorders go unnoticed and undiagnosed (I could never have imagined I'd have a personality disorder before I heard about OCPD from my psych), so he wouldn't be getting help for it. Wouldn't even consider it "help", actually.

On the psyche damage due to the Twitch (aka the journey with the Voices), that's a better argument. It's a bit stretched for believability due to and for the sake of my other stories in this series (Seiren, HH, all in this thread), but plot demands Red doesn't get serious treatment or the like after the Twitch (at age 12). As for Mt. Silver (age 15), that only happened a day or few prior to the events of this story, and before that, Red was fine (more or less) thanks to Him being around. It's not really long enough for an adult to properly intervene, and Red's mother... well, you know what Red said about her.

(Side note: Red "getting help" is actually a considerable part of Hunter, Haunted.)

Now, it might be in his character to dismiss mental health entirely ("who could understand?"), but once he does that, he loses all my sympathy. Because good therapists and psychiatrists and psychologists can understand. Especially therapists; the golden rule of therapy is "don't tell them what to believe; make them believe on their own". Red would be given the opportunity to prove his story, and unlike most over-the-deep-end people I've met in therapists' waiting rooms, Red can.

That sympathy would then be very subjective, in my opinion. In Red's mind (and in the past, mine), it's a logical dead end. Helix is gone and He'll never not be gone, meaning he'll never get not have that pain and never be happy again. And if he can't be happy, life isn't worth sticking around for. As humans are next to worthless in his mind, he doesn't believe anyone could bring anything to the table that would improve his situation.

However, that aspect of Red - while very obvious in other stories such as HH - doesn't show too much here, and I'm realizing that now. It may be because Red's aged up in HH and already been under HELIX's influence for roughly three years, while here he's still young and possibly more "naive" in current!Red's eyes, but an outsider's not going to have that context with them. I could bring his dismissal of the rest of the world forth more strongly here, maybe near the "why are you guys sad people die lol" part.

As for my own experience: before I sought help for my depression, I long had doubts that anyone could really tell me anything that would make me feel better. I did, though, have hope in medication, as that goes into the brain directly, bypassing a wall of logic and doubt. And medication did work! Though for only some of the problems. For the rest, I did seek that therapy because, well, couldn't possibly make me worse. And it didn't. Improvement is still a work in progress, though.

And on a personal level, I have multiple people in my personal life with serious mental health issues that refuse to get help for a variety of reasons, and because of that, they have harmed themselves and others. Harming yourself is pitiful; harming others requires atonement. And HIM has Red do the exact opposite of atone. Red may have started from a sympathetic position, but his decisions over the fic made him boring. He knows he needs help, yet he seeks eldritch gods instead of professional help; I know how this story ends.

I'm going to believe you fully when you say it's personal, as this very much sounds like it. I can't find objective fault in Red leaning on an easy way out in such a desperate situation. As for atonement, that ties into my next point...

But there's a reason I bring mental healthcare up last. I think HIM could make a good horror story with one tweak: Red needs to seek help. Starting this fic with an official PokéDepartment of Mental Health letter stating "you need help but we're overcrowded so fuck you LOL" (paraphrase) would make Red's suicide attempt much more understandable. Maybe a phone call to a suicide hotline only to hear "All of our operators are currently engaged", or getting denied therapy due to an insurance mishap. The more attempts Red makes to seek help, the more sympathetic he becomes. And then, since I'd sympathize with Red, I'd feel like he's a real person with a damaged psyche desperately seeking happiness. And because of that, I'd be scared for him as Lord Helix drags him away from real help. One bad decision by someone whose psyche is being manipulated shouldn't doom their lives. Watching Lord Helix exploit a believable and sympathetic Red would be terrifying.

Red being unsympathetic or unlikable is actually probably the most common criticism I've gotten for all stories with him as the protagonist. I'd like to fix it, but two things stand in the way:

1. The changes that would need to be made would destroy his character, or
2. I'm simply not talented enough to fix him in such a way that keeps him intact.

Red grows up to be a serial killer (spoiler not spoiler). It's very difficult to make a character who murderkills innocent people and eats their flesh for own personal gain and satisfaction without feeling remorse both sympathetic and realistic. I've tried my best to get close to it by giving him human sensations and universal desires (happiness, at its core) and even snarky narration, but as things are now, he still remains a very divisive character among reviewers. I don't know if he'll ever not be that, honestly.

You have a splendid idea with that good help / bad help juxtaposition. I agree that it'd make the tragedy much more tragic and it'd be great to implement, buuuuut there comes that pesky continuity biting at my ankles again. I don't know if I can introduce therapy as an opposing force into this oneshot without undermining the timeline, but I think the least I can do is try. Thanks for the idea.

I think HIM as a conventional story could work if it received some small tweaks. As it stands, I couldn't sympathize with Red, and that lacking keystone handicapped the fic. But regardless of that, it made me think about some of my deepest personal experiences. I'm not sure I'm a typical reader, but your fic has left me with something of value. Thank you for writing this; it was therapeutic in a way I've never seen.

I think I see the issue, actually. HIM can't be a conventional story. It's additional material to other stories by default, and can't be properly enjoyed by people that haven't read HH before it or otherwise been acquainted with the character in question. It simply can't work as a standalone - or making it into one would mean severing its continuity with the other stories.

It's not going to fix the issue, but I think I'll add some bit in the Author's Notes emphasizing that this story is part of a continuum to at least give better context and possibly save outside readers some frustration.

Assigning creative works perceived "value" kind of rubs me the wrong way, but I'm very glad to hear you gained something from this. "Therapeutic" is an especially flattering word, as it means I could write something immersing enough to awaken strong emotion in a reader.

As mentioned before, I'll leave my thoughts on the format later on in the other thread. I hope they can turn out useful as well.

 

[Snuggle Tier List]

Gonna make this reply quick, as I agree with most of your response. I think I stumbled into a "tied by canon" situation where I'm not familiar enough with the canon, so I'm taking your word on everything. Just want to clarify a point and offer a suggestion.

Red grows up to be a serial killer (spoiler not spoiler). It's very difficult to make a character who murderkills innocent people and eats their flesh for own personal gain and satisfaction without feeling remorse both sympathetic and realistic. I've tried my best to get close to it by giving him human sensations and universal desires (happiness, at its core) and even snarky narration, but as things are now, he still remains a very divisive character among reviewers. I don't know if he'll ever not be that, honestly.

I think there's a way out of this. Lord Helix seems to be using Red as a pawn. Regardless of Lord Helix's intentions, that removed a lot of agency from Red's actions. Perhaps leaning in to Lord Helix as a manipulator would make Red's future actions maybe not sympathetic, but at least understandable. That is, if Red does what he reasonably can under the circumstances to not become who he does, only for Lord Helix to have already "broken" red to the point he's no longer capable of resisting Lord Helix's influence, then I'd be willing to forgive Red as an unwitting pawn. Which, from your reply, it seems he is; there's canon stuff I'm not aware of, and so I think I misread Red as being more capable of reason than he is. Specifically, the Voices' possession seems to have taken a more serious toll than my cursory canon research indicated. Perhaps if Red was more outwardly traumatized? For instance, repetition could indicate racing thoughts/mental roadblocks ("I had Him. Now I have nothing. I had Him. Now I have nothing. I had Him. Now I have nothing.").

Assigning creative works perceived "value" kind of rubs me the wrong way,

I 100% agree, poor choice of words. "Value" was meant in a personal context; I found something therapeutic in your fic, and so I consider it valuable to me. That does not mean it has "objective" value, or that other people will experience the fic the same way as me. It's absolutely okay for creative works I do or do not like to exist, because other people might find "value" in them. And even if the creative work has absolutely no value to anyone (i.e. hateful propaganda), I'd rather people have the critical thinking skills to consider the work's context and messaging than censor works.

Hopefully my stance on this is cleared up. I'm definitely on a tangent, but thiss is a topic I consider rather important, and I didn't want to leave my opinion unclear. And the fact there was ambiguity at all was a failure on my part. Thank you for mentioning this; I'll make an effort to be clearer with my words.