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Moves that Pokemon should/should not be able to learn

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Please no. Go learn about the competitive scene before suggesting such things. Some Pokémon's trap is already devastating.
not for shadow tag or arena trap but for trap based moves like spirit shackle.

Rest everyone will use the Op things you're suggesting.
All your suggestions are called "Centralising the meta". Please check the term out.
how would you stop them from doing that everyone does? and to de-centralise the meta in your own way?

If people overuse sweapers then we need concrete stalers, abilities to stop/slow them down reduce their stats or damage them somehow or if they oversuse stallers and wals then we need options to break them or KO moves or Z-moves to break them.
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If people overuse sweapers then we need concrete stalers, abilities to stop/slow them down reduce their stats or damage them somehow or if they oversuse stallers and wals then we need options to break them or KO moves or Z-moves to break them.
This will lead to power creep (which we're already facing to an extent.

You're currently suggesting OP things. Let's suppose that due to your suggestions, Pokemon 1 is boosted.
Now everyone uses Pokémon 1. And you suggest an OP stapler to stop it. Let this be Pokemon 2.
Now everyone uses Pokémon 2.

That is why we need nothing too OP, but average. You're first centralising the meta, then raising power creep.

not for shadow tag or arena trap but for trap based moves like spirit shackle.
I'm pretty sure the coding cannot tell apart trapping source.
 
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how would you stop them from doing that everyone does? and to de-centralise the meta in your own way?
waiting for a answer.

I'm pretty sure the coding cannot tell apart trapping source.
thats not a problem, you need only a small extra code to make them diffrent.

You're currently suggesting OP things. Let's suppose that due to your suggestions, Pokemon 1 is boosted.
Now everyone uses Pokémon 1. And you suggest an OP stapler to stop it. Let this be Pokemon 2.
Now everyone uses Pokémon 2.

That is why we need nothing too OP, but average. You're first centralising the meta, then raising power creep.
not OP ofensively, but pokes with immunity to special damage dealing attacks or one pokes with to the physical wouldnt be to op and would reduce the onesided op ofennsive overuse of one stats if we have mold breakers , status ailemnts, weathers and other things to make it work well.
 
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waiting for a answer.
I'll just not create these OP moves and abilities.



not OP ofensively, but pokes with immunity to special damage dealing attacks or one pokes with to the physical wouldnt be to op and would reduce the onesided op ofennsive overuse of one stats if we have mold breakers , status ailemnts, weathers and other things to make it work well.
They will work only if given 1 HP like Shedinja. They are the next Mega Rayquaza if they're implemented with regular stats. Everyone will just use both of them to switch into physical or special moves. And since you're against 1 HP or 1 in both defences, status ailments won't KO them. The only status capable of KOing a Pokemon is toxic. And your suggested Pokemon will destroy entire teams before they're KOed by toxic.

These are objectively broken ideas unless:
1. They either have 1 HP.
2. Or the physical-immune Pokemon has 1 point in special defence and vice versa for the special-immune one.

They will do nothing more than centralising the meta. The Mold Breaker Pokemon are a minority (do you REALLY expect every team to carry a mold breaker Pokemon. That is also centralising the meta).
 
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Not create... we already have Rayquaza what is a legendary and good that it got them, now we have something to fight with. For legendaries that is a nice thing but other new pokemon need things to stand against other strong pokemon and they dont need to be OP status wise.

sorry for the time somebody hacked my internet browser and that was not nice.

They will work only if given 1 HP like Shedinja. They are the next Mega Rayquaza if they're implemented with regular stats. Everyone will just use both of them to switch into physical or special moves. And since you're against 1 HP or 1 in both defences, status ailments won't KO them. The only status capable of KOing a Pokemon is toxic. And your suggested Pokemon will destroy entire teams before they're KOed by toxic.

These are objectively broken ideas unless:
1. They either have 1 HP.
2. Or the physical-immune Pokemon has 1 point in special defence and vice versa for the special-immune one.

They will do nothing more than centralising the meta. The Mold Breaker Pokemon are a minority (do you REALLY expect every team to carry a mold breaker Pokemon. That is also centralising the meta).

or 1 point in stats were its weak to mold breakers and a low stats, becuase this pokemon are weaker then shedinja and would need more hp, about 15-50 and defensice(special or the physical depending on ability) status between 55-75 to really survive a little longer.

Many people complained in past that Shedinja had very small hp to be really usefull in battle. Then what about pokemon that would be twive more harmed by others then it?


Plus the ability itself could work like a status ailment and take away 1/16 hp every turn, then more hp and stats that will get hit is posibble.
Toxic and burn are enough, a whole team?if its lets say 45 speed fast thats not posibble plus this kind of pokes would get nerfed movesets to make them not OP, like rock wrecker and moves that would take them a turn.

dragon/ghost, winged two leged skeleton, non-legendary or pseudolegendary
ability: Soul Structure - Immune to special damage dealing attacks.
stats: hp: 55/
attack 64/
def 65/
sp. attack 80/
sp.def 01/
speed 50

the oposite ability would be called Shadow Foltrees- immunity to physical damage dealing attacks.
test it on some teams really before proving it wrong.
Status wise its like a weaker and slower Charmeleon.

not centralising the meta - people would start to use difrrent moves on other pokemon,
Sceptile would use leaf blade and not only special attacks if it needs to fight something that is stron on the special side.
Blaziken would need to use flamethrower on a physical immune one.
Charizard Y would need a physical move and X would need a special move reserved in back.
Moldbrekers only would be better suited for that kind of job but maybe pokes with infiltrator.

you say it easy, entry hazards, weather like sandstorm and hail still would work very well + burn and toxic.
 
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Not create... we already have Rayquaza what is a legendary and good that it got them, now we have something to fight with. For legendaries that is a nice thing but other new pokemon need things to stand against other strong pokemon and they dont need to be OP status wise.
Can you name one single non-OP counter to Mega Rayquaza and Xerneas before you say that the counters don't have to be OP?

or 1 point in stats were its weak to mold breakers and a low stats, becuase this pokemon are weaker then shedinja and would need more hp, about 15-50 and defensice(special or the physical depending on ability) status between 55-75 to really survive a little longer.
I've addressed Mold Breaker later.
Many people complained in past that Shedinja had very small hp to be really usefull in battle. Then what about pokemon that would be twive more harmed by others then it?
It will not be twice as weak. Dragon/Ghost has no proper physical weaknesses at all (except ghost and dragon themselves). So it is virtually immune to its prime weaknesses: fairy and dark.


Toxic and burn are enough, a whole team?if its lets say 45 speed fast thats not posibble plus this kind of pokes would get nerfed movesets to make them not OP, like rock wrecker and moves that would take them a turn.
That was an exaggeration. The Pokemon you have given have very FEW weaknesses. They can comfortably take out 1 or two Pokemon. (2 is 1/3 of a team). And it would require VERY good Stall to take out these Pokemon.

dragon/ghost, winged two leged skeleton, non-legendary or pseudolegendary
ability: Soul Structure - Immune to special damage dealing attacks.
stats: hp: 55/
attack 64/
def 65/
sp. attack 80/
sp.def 01/
speed 50
The problem with this is: ALL THIS POKEMON'S WEAKNESSES ARE MOSTLY SPECIAL MOVES: Fairy, Dark etc. You're removing its weaknesses completely! There is a grand total of ONE physical fairy move. And don't get me started on Dragon and ghost weaknesses since this Pokemon is strong against any dragon or ghost type.

I'd prefer a Bug/Grass personally, a Pokemon with a lot of special weaknesses.
not centralising the meta - people would start to use difrrent moves on other pokemon,
Sceptile would use leaf blade and not only special attacks if it needs to fight something that is stron on the special side.
Blaziken would need to use flamethrower on a physical immune one.
Charizard Y would need a physical move and X would need a special move reserved in back.
You're getting ridiculous. These concepts are bordering on mad. You're making the Pokemon use MOVES THEY ARE NOT MEANT TO. Charizard X was never meant to touch special moves!
And using inferior moves on Sceptile and Charizard is worse than simply using these Pokemon. People will just use the physical and special immunity Pokemon in their teams. You're highly overestimating competitive.

Moldbreakers only would be better suited for that kind of job but maybe pokes with infiltrator.

you say it easy, entry hazards, weather like sandstorm and hail still would work very well + burn and toxic.
ONLY 12 Pokemon get Mold Breaker (2 of which are Megas). Also you cannot use Burn and Toxic at the same time. And Sandstorm and Hail are not at all popular or viable (we have a whole thread on 'Buffing the Ice type". 8 of the 12 mold Breaker Pokemon are weak or one of their STAB does 0 damage on Dragon/Ghost.
The only Mold Breaker which can comfortably take out your immune Pokemon is Excadrill.

Sorry, but this ridiculous idea should never see the light of day unless it is a Bug/Grass type immune to physical moves, with 1 point in special defence.
 
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Let's get back on track.

Mega Sceptile is a Grass/Dragon special attacker who, without move tutors, can only get Dragon Breath as a special Dragon Stab attack. And that is an egg move. Not even Dragon Pulse?
 
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Nitpick: most Dark-type moves are physical now.
Oh well, I was under the impression that Dark Pulse was the most prominent dark move. Maybe Sucker Punch and knock off have taken the spot.

But the fact still stands that fairy has a grand total of 1 physical move.
 
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they should change that: if you trap something then next turn(only) it should go last, the point of a trap is to trap the foe, traping also has to do with speed, they could make it hapen if we look at paralyze status.
Trapping something really doesn't have anything to do with speed. And halving a Pokemon's speed on top of keeping them from switching out with one move (and dealing damage every turn) seems far too OP.
but they are long reach attackers and foes have often problem of getting near them, they can hit an enemy first with their bow and arrows.
...And? That has absolutely nothing to do with Assist.
but they need to be together to be a circus , a entertaining family.
So what? Assist isn't about being together-it's about using another Pokemon's moves. You can't force a metaphor like that.
 
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So what? Assist isn't about being together-it's about using another Pokemon's moves. You can't force a metaphor like that.
Someone knows how to perform an act that they normally don't do unless the one who's supposed to do said act isn't there.
 
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Ice has some good physical attackers, with Weavile, Crabominible, and Black Kyurem.
But they're suggesting an entire immunity to special ice moves. The poster children of ice are Ice Beam, Freeze Dry and Blizzard, and I've heard that Kyreum Black isn't Ubers just becuase of the lack of powerful physical Ice move...
 
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Can you name one single non-OP counter to Mega Rayquaza and Xerneas before you say that the counters don't have to be OP?
only when in a team play, but you are right here. thats why I wanted some other changes too. But legendaries are special and rather regular pokes need a team to win.

It will not be twice as weak. Dragon/Ghost has no proper physical weaknesses at all (except ghost and dragon themselves). So it is virtually immune to its prime weaknesses: fairy and dark.
not the weaknesses , but the probability of your oponens team of using a concrete amount of special and physical moves. Take infernape, wishiwashi, greninja and pokemon that can carry both physical and special moves and hit hard.
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Do we know how many physical/special moves do player use in competitive battles?
more special or physical?

That was an exaggeration. The Pokemon you have given have very FEW weaknesses. They can comfortably take out 1 or two Pokemon. (2 is 1/3 of a team). And it would require VERY good Stall to take out these Pokemon.
Not necessary, the stats can be changed(reduced attack, sp. attack) if you want a pikachu with iron tail to take it out after 3 hits in the anime.
Good stall ? or good sweaper and luck.
There are spikes, weathers and if somebody uses Wonder Room you know what hapens?
Plus intimadate, mummy and others can help easy.
I love the concept.

The problem with this is: ALL THIS POKEMON'S WEAKNESSES ARE MOSTLY SPECIAL MOVES: Fairy, Dark etc. You're removing its weaknesses completely! There is a grand total of ONE physical fairy move. And don't get me started on Dragon and ghost weaknesses since this Pokemon is strong against any dragon or ghost type.

I'd prefer a Bug/Grass personally, a Pokemon with a lot of special weaknesses.
But dragon/ghost is perfect for this. We have already a good bug pokemon you know.
Thats the point in future we will get more physical fairy moves.
We have the right amount of many moves now, but some are not used and you know why.
This would trigger some changes.

And using inferior moves on Sceptile and Charizard is worse than simply using these Pokemon. People will just use the physical and special immunity Pokemon in their teams. You're highly overestimating competitive.
or just changing moves knowing that some will use them it depens on what path some will choose.
Plus you never know what pokemon your oponent will have in a 6 pokemon team out of more then 800 pokemon by now. Plus traping such a pokemon and using other moves will get interesting. Imagine how someone with mega gengar would react?

ONLY 12 Pokemon get Mold Breaker (2 of which are Megas). Also you cannot use Burn and Toxic at the same time. And Sandstorm and Hail are not at all popular or viable (we have a whole thread on 'Buffing the Ice type". 8 of the 12 mold Breaker Pokemon are weak or one of their STAB does 0 damage on Dragon/Ghost.
The only Mold Breaker which can comfortably take out your immune Pokemon is Excadrill.

Sorry, but this ridiculous idea should never see the light of day unless it is a Bug/Grass type immune to physical moves, with 1 point in special defence.
what is with Foresight and Scrappy? its a ghost type.
It will get to flinch , get also a chance of getting paralazyde like other pokes doo.
Plus you have stealth rocks, spikes and toxic spikes, they would work on it normally.
Plus imagine somebody uses Wonder Room and the changes stats.
Its slow, many pokes get phantom force, sucker punch and shadow sneak and could hit it hard.

Taking that this pokemon has 6 weakness it is weaker then shedinja and that would work very well.
This should see the light of day taking that we need more interesting pokemon.
Only needs the right stats proportion to be not overpowered or underpowered, but always some will complain like with every pokemon that exists till now.

You complained about slow Alolan pokemon? they would have enough stall,to fight this kind of foe.
Take Decidueye, Primarina and Incineroar vs Skulragon dragon/ghost-ability: immune to special attacks. All starters would have a chance of biting it nicely, even Primarina with Wonder Room or Aqua Jet.

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back on track: Decidueye and Zen Headbut? for flinching chance if lack of speed.
(more grass and bug flinching moves, why do so many types not get flinching moves of their own type?)
 
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back on track: Decidueye and Zen Headbut? for flinching chance if lack of speed.
(more grass and bug flinching moves, why do so many types not get flinching moves of their own type?)
One. Flinching only works if you go first. Two, there’s a total of 1 Grass move that can flinch, Needle Arm. Steamroller is the only Bug move that can flinch. So yeah, I agree with you on the second one.

Speaking of Needle Arm, Ferroseed and Ferrothorn can’t get it despite one of them having a shell with protective needles on the outside and the other having arms with metal needles on it. Not even as an Egg Move?
 
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One. Flinching only works if you go first. Two, there’s a total of 1 Grass move that can flinch, Needle Arm. Steamroller is the only Bug move that can flinch. So yeah, I agree with you on the second one.

Speaking of Needle Arm, Ferroseed and Ferrothorn can’t get it despite one of them having a shell with protective needles on the outside and the other having arms with metal needles on it. Not even as an Egg Move?
hmm flinching only when you go first? ehhh Yes Deci would need a speed boost or let spirit shackle reduce oponents speed or make it learn force pal, then paralyze 25% speed reduction.

Why onlycause flinch if you go first? sometimes something that moves last can be also frightening and should cause the target to flinch next turn, then faster oponent would be immobilize... why didnt they take that into account?

Theoretically if something has leafs as wings why not make it get needles?
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imagine a Alolan Ninetales with U-turn? or Baton Pass?
Alakazam - flash canon
Wishi Washi- Iron head, Iron tail, maybe some SE move against Shedinja?
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Deciduey- Force Palm and Close Combat, give it the power if it has fragile speed.
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Pyukumuku- whirl pool, sand tomb(ground), irond head, zen headbut, sucker punch, leech life, mega drain, drain punch it should be able to use and know this moves taking its innards out ability, body construction and that it got mud sport(ground). A whirlpool to trap and the party gets started, lame thats it has no ghost typing to use Curse in a better way.
 
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Why onlycause flinch if you go first? sometimes something that moves last can be also frightening and should cause the target to flinch next turn, then faster oponent would be immobilize... why didnt they take that into account?
Flinching is a reaction to something that just happened. Flinching at something a turn later would just be silly. There's plenty of other ways to try to stop faster Pokemon-paralysis, freeze, sleep, or slowing the opponent down/boosting your own speed to be able to make them flinch the next turn, or lowing their accuracy/boosting your evasiveness so that they miss their attacks. And faster Pokemon are going to have an advantage over slower Pokemon-it's not supposed to be totally equal.
Wishi Washi- Iron head, Iron tail, maybe some SE move against Shedinja?
????? I get Iron Head and Iron Tail-they're TMs, offer good coverage, and are moves based on just slamming a body part into the opponent. But why does it need something to harm Shedinja specifically? (And it has moves that can hit Shedinja-Feint Attack and Beat Up, plus Hidden Power depending on the Wishiwashi)
Pyukumuku- whirl pool, sand tomb(ground), irond head, zen headbut, sucker punch, leech life, mega drain, drain punch it should be able to use and know this moves taking its innards out ability, body construction and that it got mud sport(ground). A whirlpool to trap and the party gets started,.
Pyukumuku's whole design is that it doesn't actually attack itself-it uses the opponent's attacks against them while inflicting various problems on it. (lowering PP, changing types, etc.) There's a difference between adding moves to a Pokemon to better its design and completely overhauling it. (also, it has Recover-it doesn't need Drain Punch, and I don't see how Mud Sport factors into that at all)
lame thats it has no ghost typing to use Curse in a better way
Typing's not just about which version of Curse would help a Pokemon-there's nothing about Pyukumu's design that would suggest a Ghost typing. And Curse as it is now for it does it a lot more favors-it increases its Defense and lowers its Speed, which is fantastic for Bide and Counter, some of Pyukumu's only damaging moves. With a Ghost typing, Pyumuku would actually lose half its health for a Curse.
 
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Flinching is a reaction to something that just happened. Flinching at something a turn later would just be silly. There's plenty of other ways to try to stop faster Pokemon-paralysis, freeze, sleep, or slowing the opponent down/boosting your own speed to be able to make them flinch the next turn, or lowing their accuracy/boosting your evasiveness so that they miss their attacks. And faster Pokemon are going to have an advantage over slower Pokemon-it's not supposed to be totally equal.
Thats the point we didnt get this options in Alola like we got plenty in past generations.
thats why I would want some moves like Clangling scales, spirit schacle and some others, maybe grass moves to reduce speed too... Or make some pokemon like Deci, Kommo-o and others learn some priority and self speed boosting or oponent speed lowering moves...

What do you thing should/could a dragon/fighting Kommo-o learn flame charge, extreem speed?
Its speed resembles that of Lucario and actually its a more interesting pokemon that could crealry need drain punch and moveset buff.

????? I get Iron Head and Iron Tail-they're TMs, offer good coverage, and are moves based on just slamming a body part into the opponent. But why does it need something to harm Shedinja specifically? (And it has moves that can hit Shedinja-Feint Attack and Beat Up, plus Hidden Power depending on the Wishiwashi)
are those normal or fighting type moves? against a ghost?
Look if it learns anathing SE vs Shedinja. Maybe Head Smash should be a option?

Pyukumuku's whole design is that it doesn't actually attack itself-it uses the opponent's attacks against them while inflicting various problems on it. (lowering PP, changing types, etc.) There's a difference between adding moves to a Pokemon to better its design and completely overhauling it. (also, it has Recover-it doesn't need Drain Punch, and I don't see how Mud Sport factors into that at all)
Drain punch for damage, it has a hidden fist inside of it and it should be abble to use it even if it has not innards out.
Make use of its anatomy, if it can fist punch its oponet with its ability then with some punching moves too, especially sucker punch and drain punch.
Its not overhauling it, imagine a combo with bide or counter, mirror move should also be a option against special attackers.
It learns Mud sport, can be found on beaches, why not make it learn sand tomb?


Typing's not just about which version of Curse would help a Pokemon-there's nothing about Pyukumu's design that would suggest a Ghost typing. And Curse as it is now for it does it a lot more favors-it increases its Defense and lowers its Speed, which is fantastic for Bide and Counter, some of Pyukumu's only damaging moves. With a Ghost typing, Pyumuku would actually lose half its health for a Curse.
right points. But it would really need some priority and hp draning moves.
To bring more strategy in game play. Would it really change that much in wont jump into OU becuse of that but could get more usefull when after countering oponent could drain some life out of it and stay longer on the field.
if there would exist in future only a voodo doll pokemon that could send damage and helth lost to the oponent every time it looses healt...
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both Lycanroc forms learn a lot rock, dark and fighting moves?
also fire fang and thunder fang?

why didnt midnight form get moonblast, moonshine, razor wind, poison jab, shadow ball , shadow claw, phantom force, shadow sneak?

midday form would need iron tail, psychic fang, aerial ace, earth powe, sand tomb,extreem speed.

maybe baby-doll-eys, sweet kiss, dazzling gleam, play rough?(for day and dusk form, maybe middnight too with exception of dazzling gleam)


both learn sucker punch???
non of them learn sandstorm? maybe Dusk form will get sandstream ability?

if Dusk form is slower then midday form then please give it Flame charge, cause its relation to the dusk and sun would make it count and allow it to fight better the grass types. I no it learns fire fang, but flame charge is weaker and gives the speed.
 
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