• Snowy finally gets an endorsement from the Champion to participate in the Gym Challenge. Watch here as he learns about Dynamaxing and chases after Hop.
  • With COPPA coming into full effect, the comments section and notifications for our YouTube videos are disabled. Not to worry, though, you can keep up with the latest episodes for all our ongoing series and provide your comments in the Bulbasocial section here.

Moves that Pokemon should/should not be able to learn

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
3,413
Reaction score
9,653
Thats the point we didnt get this options in Alola like we got plenty in past generations.
thats why I would want some moves like Clangling scales, spirit schacle and some others, maybe grass moves to reduce speed too... Or make some pokemon like Deci, Kommo-o and others learn some priority and self speed boosting or oponent speed lowering moves...
Or people could just use Trick Room.
are those normal or fighting type moves? against a ghost?
...It could not possibly take more than two minutes to look up the moves Beat Up and Feint Attack and realize that they are both Dark-type, and are super effective against Shedinja.
Its not overhauling it, imagine a combo with bide or counter
It is overhauling it, because the whole point of Pyumuku is that it does not deal direct damage itself.
mirror move should also be a option against special attackers.
I do agree with that. It's still got some ways to whittle down health, but special attackers would be a lot harder on it.
But it would really need some priority and hp draning moves.
To bring more strategy in game play.
That just simplifies Pyumuku's strategy. It takes more thought to figure out how to damage someone without directly hitting them than it does to just hit them.
Would it really change that much in wont jump into OU becuse of that but could get more usefull when after countering oponent could drain some life out of it and stay longer on the field.
That's what Recover's for. (It'll recover more than most draining moves.)
It learns Mud sport, can be found on beaches, why not make it learn sand tomb?
I asked what Mud Sport had to do with Drain Punch, not Sand Tomb. (and the point still applies-Pyumuku's not supposed to attack)
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2010
Messages
3,186
Reaction score
2,423
Lycanroc should have a Ground type move. Like, Dig or Earthquake. Something, please.
 
Joined
Aug 10, 2017
Messages
210
Reaction score
113
Milotic should have Calm Mind, it fits that Pokemon perfectly! And it would allow her to do what Suicune does with a CrocCune set (Scald or Surf, Rest, Sleep Talk, Calm Mind) but then even better, abusing Marvel Scale's defense boost.
 
Flagitiously Floofy
Joined
Nov 20, 2016
Messages
37,732
Reaction score
40,763
I can think of multiple Pokémon that should get Smart Strike but don't. It's very fitting for the Honedge line and Cobalion, for instance.
 
oh my
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
823
Reaction score
732
I always felt like there was something... odd, about Piplup, Prinplup and Empoleon being able to use Bubble and BubbleBeam. I can chalk it up to just Pokemon things, but I imagine it's weird to blow bubbles from a beak.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
4,047
Reaction score
626
I always felt like there was something... odd, about Piplup, Prinplup and Empoleon being able to use Bubble and BubbleBeam. I can chalk it up to just Pokemon things, but I imagine it's weird to blow bubbles from a beak.
but its not odd that to many of water starters and water pokemon are learning ice beam and too strong ice attacks?

Serperior and Deciduey should learn Confusion.

grass starters would need more type coverage on both physical and special side.

Especially Venusaur that needs to learn atleast one per type of this:

-fighting(??? it has vines to do some serious fighting moves you know?),
-dark(??? really should get something taking it vines can be used for it),
-ghost (maybe lick ???)
-rock (rock blast, rock throw, rock slide, something???)
-dragon (it should learn dual chop, it can use cut or not? or dragon pulse)
 
Last edited:
oh my
Joined
Mar 23, 2017
Messages
823
Reaction score
732
but its not odd that to many of water starters and water pokemon are learning ice beam and too strong ice attacks?
I didn't say that was the case, no x3 I do find that odd as well, but the Bubble/BubbleBeam thing was what first popped (do ho ho) into my mind before.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
3,413
Reaction score
9,653
-fighting(??? it has vines to do some serious fighting moves you know?),
-dark(??? really should get something taking it vines can be used for it),
There's no way to spin "It has vines" as a justification for anything but a Grass-type move. (especially not just "it can fight with its vines"-fighting is kinda how battles work)
-ghost (maybe lick ???)
What good would a 30BP move do for coverage?
-rock (rock blast, rock throw, rock slide, something???)
I can see the use for coverage, but it seems to me that's exactly why it's not getting any-it'd overpower Charizard and leave Charizard the weakest of the Kanto starters. (also, no Grass or Poison type can learn Rock Blast or Rock Throw, so it's kinda hard to say Venusaur should be the first)
-dragon (it should learn dual chop, it can use cut or not? or dragon pulse)
There is literally no correlation between Dual Chop and Cut. (plus, Cut is an HM-it's put on a lot of Pokemon so it can be accessible) The learners of Dual Chop are all bipedal, and Venusaur clearly isn't.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
4,047
Reaction score
626
There's no way to spin "It has vines" as a justification for anything but a Grass-type move. (especially not just "it can fight with its vines"-fighting is kinda how battles work)
other grass pokemon learn fighting and dark type moves.
many pokemon with similar typing and body, and vines can use those by using their vines and leafs.
But some are leted out and thats why grass types have hard.

Victribel line, Tangela line and Venusaur line would need more coverage(fighting against steel) now days seeing what harder oponnents they need to battle against.
Plus the anime showed many situations where pure grass types use fighting type moves.
Lame un-justification not learning a fighting type move becuase of vines, the vines it uses as arms and forarm together and it can jump and rotate something with its body, throwing and tossing moves should be posibble.


What good would a 30BP move do for coverage?
then what about shadow ball? so many pokemon learn it.

I can see the use for coverage, but it seems to me that's exactly why it's not getting any-it'd overpower Charizard and leave Charizard the weakest of the Kanto starters. (also, no Grass or Poison type can learn Rock Blast or Rock Throw, so it's kinda hard to say Venusaur should be the first)
ok thats more reasonable, but on the other hand it should get some other coverage against the bug type(or a new grass move SE on bugs)
I wonder if it could learn a steel type move like iron head against the ice types?
I wanted something to let it take down flying. Or should be abble as a grass/poison plant learn a electric move for that? but what one? (no thunderbolt)
It has one only physical ground moves, should get earth power in my opinion.

There is literally no correlation between Dual Chop and Cut. (plus, Cut is an HM-it's put on a lot of Pokemon so it can be accessible) The learners of Dual Chop are all bipedal, and Venusaur clearly isn't.
when do you need be bipedal if you have 2 strong vines to chop something? what other dragon move then would you suggest?
Dragon breath? its a toad, it shouldnt have problems with that.
it has no tail and claws to do dragon claw or dragon tail.

The same goeas for meganium that should be abble to use more head based moves.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2016
Messages
3,413
Reaction score
9,653
other grass pokemon learn fighting and dark type moves.
I never said "no Grass-type Pokemon should learn Fighting or Dark-type moves." What I said was this:

There's no way to spin "It has vines" as a justification for anything but a Grass-type move. (especially not just "it can fight with its vines"-fighting is kinda how battles work)
Your justification for Venusaur learning Fighting and Dark moves was entirely based on its vines, a plant-based part of the Pokemon. Other Grass-types have more reasons to learn those moves-a body built for more martial-arts based moves, or being of the Fighting or Dark types themselves.
many pokemon with similar typing and body, and vines can use those by using their vines and leafs.
Vileplume can learn one Dark-type move (Fling, which usually can only be used once in a battle) and no Fighting moves.

Victreebell can learn two Dark-type moves (one of which is Fling), and no Fighting moves.

Roserade learns no Dark or Fighting moves.

Amoongus learns two Dark-type moves and no Fighting moves. (It also has no vines or leaves)

That's every Grass/Poison line.

But some are leted out and thats why grass types have hard.
I can't even understand what you're saying here.
Victribel line, Tangela line and Venusaur line would need more coverage(fighting against steel) now days seeing what harder oponnents they need to battle against.
A) No Pokemon is going to take down every other Pokemon. That's why we have teams of six.
B) No Pokemon will have coverage across every other type.
C) Why are Steel types suddenly a "harder opponent"? They've been around for quite some time now.

Plus the anime showed many situations where pure grass types use fighting type moves.
Because some pure-Grass types can learn those moves. Doesn't mean every Grass-type should learn them-there's more to the moves Pokemon learn than just their type.
Lame un-justification not learning a fighting type move becuase of vines,
Let me reiterate: I am not saying no Grass-type should learn Fighting moves. What I am saying is that it makes no sense to claim that vines alone are justification for an attack. You said this:
-fighting(??? it has vines to do some serious fighting moves you know?),
Your only reasoning for Venusaur to learn Fighting-type moves was because it can fight with vines.

Every Pokemon can fight. That's literally the whole point of the game. That does not mean every Pokemon will learn a Fighting-type move.
the vines it uses as arms and forarm together
Vines bound together are not as strong as flesh and muscle.
ok thats more reasonable, but on the other hand it should get some other coverage against the bug type(or a new grass move SE on bugs)
Why??? Venusaur isn't even weak to Bug.
I wonder if it could learn a steel type move like iron head against the ice types?
I could see that being justified, but I also don't think it's really worth adding in. Venusaur's already got STAB against Rock and Fairy, the only other types Steel is strong against. Why add in an attack to hit one type super effectively when Ice doesn't even resist its STAB?
I wanted something to let it take down flying. Or should be abble as a grass/poison plant learn a electric move for that? but what one? (no thunderbolt)
"should be able as a grass/poison"? None of the others can learn Electric moves, either.
It has one only physical ground moves, should get earth power in my opinion.
It's still got a strong Physical attack, and the Ground-type coverage. Not every Pokemon is gonna be the ultimate attacker, some moves are left out to keep them in check.
when do you need be bipedal if you have 2 strong vines to chop something?
When every other Pokemon that learns the move is bipedal, and the move is only learned by leveling up. (or tutor in Gen 6)
what other dragon move then would you suggest?
None! It doesn't need a Dragon move!
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
4,047
Reaction score
626
Your justification for Venusaur learning Fighting and Dark moves was entirely based on its vines, a plant-based part of the Pokemon. Other Grass-types have more reasons to learn those moves-a body built for more martial-arts based moves, or being of the Fighting or Dark types themselves.
more reasons??? it should get some more coverage and can use those vines better then arms and forearms in some cases like trowing or tossing something.
if you would need to add it a fighting or dark type move what would you give it?
What other coverage of moves that it doesnt have from other types would you add it?

Vileplume can learn one Dark-type move (Fling, which usually can only be used once in a battle) and no Fighting moves.

Victreebell can learn two Dark-type moves (one of which is Fling), and no Fighting moves.

Roserade learns no Dark or Fighting moves.

Amoongus learns two Dark-type moves and no Fighting moves. (It also has no vines or leaves)

That's every Grass/Poison line.
thats lame seeing they need a little of that kind of coverage.
Taking that other grass types get it even not having the poison secondary type.

I can't even understand what you're saying here.
grass/poison pokes would need some more coverage of dark and fighting against psychic, ghost and steel.
The same would be some more other moves of other types.
Think of it.

A) No Pokemon is going to take down every other Pokemon. That's why we have teams of six.
B) No Pokemon will have coverage across every other type.
C) Why are Steel types suddenly a "harder opponent"? They've been around for quite some time now.
A) some pokes got 2 types some are monotyped, some have very great coverage of moves like Charizard with higher base status without any reason and others like venusaur have it hard without any reason?
B) Yes but some more coverage would be good taking that water and fire pokemon got really much better coverage against diffrent foes, check the list thats on this site with the moves that base power is 60 or higher.
C) for grass/poison they are great oponents also like the psychic types.

I dont know why you think grass/poison pokes should not learn more fighting, dark and other coverage moves taking that other pokemon from other types got much more coverage. Especially the cae of a starter pokemon like Venusaur.

Vines bound together are not as strong as flesh and muscle.
but using ropes with the right way with mass and jump techniques can make wonders.


Why??? Venusaur isn't even weak to Bug.
ok tusche, it has enogh normal type moves for that.

I could see that being justified, but I also don't think it's really worth adding in. Venusaur's already got STAB against Rock and Fairy, the only other types Steel is strong against. Why add in an attack to hit one type super effectively when Ice doesn't even resist its STAB?
ice/steel? ice/poison? ice/dragon? rock/dragon? rock/grass? rock/bug? fairy/poison?
what if the oponent has a dual typing that resists its grass and poison moves? how many do we have that can do that by now?
ok, that makes sense, but some dragon, ghost ,fighting and dark coverage should be posibble or not?
Even a fairy move in Vensuaurs case should be posibble if it can learn Solar beam?
why not make it learn Dazzling Gleam or Flash canon(steel)?

should be able as a grass/poison"? None of the others can learn Electric moves, either.
thats a little bad after 7 generations taking that acid batteries are known and scientist try to create biological energy trees.

It's still got a strong Physical attack, and the Ground-type coverage. Not every Pokemon is gonna be the ultimate attacker, some moves are left out to keep them in check.
in check but coverage for the special oriented oponents?
If something can user energy ball, solar beam, then why not earth power?

what about Venusaur vs Shedinja? vs Aegislash? vs Kangaskhan?
vs Ditto?
what starters have the most change of beating them and what the less?
I know not every pokemon needs to beat the other but some type coverage should be there like let bulbasaur line learn signal beam against psychic types if it can learn solar beam.

None! It doesn't need a Dragon move!
then give it Dazzling Gleam against dragons.
It should be abble to use a weak dragon move.
 
Last edited:
Flame Trainer
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
8,855
Reaction score
18,262
what if the oponent has a dual typing that resists its grass and poison moves?
Don't use Venusaur against it? It's a simply very bad matchup. It seems as if your sole target is that each and every Pokemon learns move of every random type ever.

then give it Dazzling Gleam against dragons.
How does Dazzling gleam make sense on Venusaur? There is nothing shiny, magic or fairy like in Venusaur. Infact, it's the opposite: full of poison, dirt (poison has dirt), and its just like a toad. Nothing magical there.
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
4,047
Reaction score
626
Don't use Venusaur against it? It's a simply very bad matchup. It seems as if your sole target is that each and every Pokemon learns move of every random type ever.
no but check the list of physical/special moves it learns with power bigger then 60 base and what coverage do the other starter pokemon get through out generations?

How does Dazzling gleam make sense on Venusaur? There is nothing shiny, magic or fairy like in Venusaur. Infact, it's the opposite: full of poison, dirt (poison has dirt), and its just like a toad. Nothing magical there.
beam based move, if you can use solar energy then magic shouldnt be a problem that much? or would you preffer play rough or a dragon move?

If something: what kind of extra coverage would you add to it?
fighting, fairy, dragon, dark, other??? what kind of moves ? and why?

(Lets say: maybe Gastro Acid? belsproutt learns it and serperior???)
 
Last edited:
Flame Trainer
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
8,855
Reaction score
18,262
no but check the list of physical/special moves it learns with power bigger then 60 base and what coverage doe the other starter pokemon get through out generations?
Exactly how is this relevant to the conversation? (Mega) Venusaur has powerful enough moves to hold its own in OU.

I think every Kanto starter has enough coverage and dosen't need more of it.

On the topic:
I think Typhlosion needs: Scald (Emboar learns it, and Typhlosion's supposed to be a Volcano, so like Volcanion it should be able to learn it to), Earth Power, Thunderbolt (static electricity). It desperately needs this coverage. Maybe throw in energy Ball so it can hold its own against other Pokemon and making it a better choice than Delphox or Houndoom (which according to smogon are recommended to use in its place).
 
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
4,047
Reaction score
626
I think every Kanto starter has enough coverage and dosen't need more of it.
why did Venusaur get the less coverage then the other two?
check out what coverage type wise do they have. They can , it not? it also has a rivalry with them and others.

nice ideas with Typhlosion.
 
Flame Trainer
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
8,855
Reaction score
18,262
why did Venusaur get the less coverage then the other two?
check out what coverage type wise do they have. They can , it not? it also has a rivalry with them and others.

nice ideas with Typhlosion.
What? Last time I checked Mega Venusaur is the most viable Mega starter as a stall and fairy-slayer.
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/venusaur/

In fact, Blastoise is the only Kanto mega starter that isn't OU. And Charizard's the weakest non-mega Kanto starter. It's PU and Venusaur and Blastoise are RU.

And NO, if you're talking in an anime context, they have a rivalry (which dosen't count here), but for competitive purposes they have NO rivalry. Need a fire type for your team? Charizard's and option. Need a WATER type? Blastoise is right there. Need a grass type? Venusaur's there!
And that's ignoring the fact that many people have more Pokemon of one type than 1.
 
Top