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Moves that Pokemon should/should not be able to learn

追放されたバカ
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Umbreon actually hides in the darkness due to the colour of its fur, not because it can cross dimensions or make its body disappear.
learns 3 ghost type moves... hides in the "dark", who says that it can't cross a dimension for short perriod?
on the other hand if they plan a ghost evolution for its preevo then maybe it doesnt need it, but Espeon maybe also could/should learn it? Especially that we not battle in the dark specially, it has no ability to make it, dark types have no terrain to hide...
We even have a proper Mist weather(should be a weather for ghost) solution till now.
When "Ghost dive" makes the user disapper for short time whats the problem if the user learns other ghost type moves he, should be able to learn and use it.

-Normal types are immune to ghost type moves if something... it wouldn't be so dramatic after all.

They can always in future create a shielding move immune to Phantom Force but weak to other moves... also make hit the users of this move in ssemi state by sound moves.

jeez that we have no ability immunity against dark type moves for a ghost...
 
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追放されたバカ
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Which are- Confuse Ray, Shadow Ball and Curse. None of which involve different dimensions.
if you gain ghost energy. From where does it come from?
if something can go in one, then also it can go into the other direction...
 
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if you gain ghost energy. From where does it come from?
if something can go in one, then also it can go into the other direction...
Harnessing some spiritual energy doesn’t mean you can harness enough energy to go to a different dimension.

Some Ghost types can harness enough energy for that, but Umbreon isn’t specialised enough to do so.

Just like a solar cell cannot harness enough energy to open up a black hole or something.
 
Dieter
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Yes, but it explicitly says 'vanish' not 'hide'. Hiding in the dark is pretty different than moving yourself to some shadow realm, or wherever they might transport to. That said, there are more ghost types that could have it, even though it's not that great a move (unless you use a power herb, but that's not all that viable). The only non-ghost type I could see working thematically is greninja, because it's a ninja.

But umbreon for example doesn't disappear. It just has good camouflage skills, it's black fur makes it nearly invisible in the dark. Murkrow is a trickster that might try to lead you astray before ditching you. Mandibuzz is just the pokemon version of a vulture, no folkloric elements there. Jynx has also nothing to do with ghost powers, or vanishing, although it does seem to draw some inspiration from the yuki-onna. Crobat's only naturally learned ghost moves are astonish (referencing the tendency of bats to startle people with their sudden appearance) and confuse ray (which I think references their eyes lighting up in the dark). And speed has little to do with vanishing into someplace else. Alakazam and hypno have extrasensory perception, not magic. Cacturn is a creepy cactus scarecrow, which also has nothing to do with being a ghost.

Even then, phantom force (or ghost dive in Japanese) has little to nothing to do with magic or looking creepy. It's a ghost power, something associated with spirits. The only non-ghost type to even have it is yveltal, the avatar of death.

EDIT: also, curse wasn't always a ghost move and its novelty hinges on the fact it does something different for ghost and non-ghost types. It seems like they simply wanted to do away with it's '???' typing
 
Darth Ignis
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I think Florges should learn a fire type or electric type move. Very random I know, but I'm playing with a Florges in Pokemon Y and it has a pretty limited movepool in terms of type variance. I think the beautiful creature is going to get boxed.
 
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I mean, it does, but how would an Electric-type move help it? Why not give it a Ground-type move? It covers both weaknesses and could fit more thematically, since the relation of floral Fairy-types to Grass-types and Grass-types to Ground-types isn't too much of a stretch.
 
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Not a specific example, but I find it weird that some Pokémon that learn Bite don't learn Crunch. I remember that was the case with the Charmander line in Gen III, but I don't know how many got fixed.
 
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Not a specific example, but I find it weird that some Pokémon that learn Bite don't learn Crunch. I remember that was the case with the Charmander line in Gen III, but I don't know how many got fixed.
I just thought Pokémon with more powerful bites and/or more specialisation with Dark type got Crunch, since it’s essentually an upgraded Bite and not many Pokémon may have the jaws or necessary higher Dark energy for it.
 
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I just thought Pokémon with more powerful bites and/or more specialisation with Dark type got Crunch, since it’s essentually an upgraded Bite and not many Pokémon may have the jaws or necessary higher Dark energy for it.
I know, but most of the exceptions actually had powerful fangs, or at least they look powerful like Charizard or Blastoise.
 
追放されたバカ
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other question how many pokemon have the word "spirit" in their pokedex entries and data?
Serebi? Spirit of the forest? candidate for Phantom Force...
We have Spirits of lake...
Hide, vanish.... Umbreon has that it cn use "Powers"...
Darkrai theoretically if it can cause nightmares it theorretically should be able to disapper in a other realm...

Who said that some dark types can't go to a ghostly realm? especially those associated with death and moon?
Jynx, Alakazam and Hypno maybe are extrasensory... but if you can teleport then why not in a ghost realm?
You fear rather the buff that those pokes would get.
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we need new biting moves (for dragon, rock, steel ) not a upgrade to bite.
 
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Umbreon has that it cn use "Powers"...
All Pokemon have powers, that doesn't mean they all get the same moves.
Who said that some dark types can't go to a ghostly realm?
Game Freak.
Jynx, Alakazam and Hypno maybe are extrasensory... but if you can teleport then why not in a ghost realm?
By the same logic, they should also be able to travel through Ultra Space.
especially those associated with death
Yvetal is associated with death and learns Phantom Force. Mandibuzz is only associated with death because it's a scavenger, not because it has any special powers over death.
and moon?
What does the moon have to do with entering a ghostly dimension?
You fear rather the buff that those pokes would get.
No? It's not even that big of a buff, most of these Pokemon have some Ghost-type moves already, and it's not like a non-STAB move that covers one weakness (if any) is going to bring a Pokemon to S-tier. We just think it doesn't make sense.
 
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No? It's not even that big of a buff, most of these Pokemon have some Ghost-type moves already, and it's not like a non-STAB move that covers one weakness (if any) is going to bring a Pokemon to S-tier. We just think it doesn't make sense.
And that’s not to mention that it’s a two turn move not all that reliable.
 
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Diamond & Pearl mentioned Ground-types using Ice-type moves on the Gen 8 thread. I was sure that most Ground-types didn't get any significant Ice-type moves, but you know what? The Cubone line learns Ice Beam and Blizzard, of all things. What?
 
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