• Bulbacast is back with a new episode in advance of tomorrow's Direct. Watch it on YouTube here.

Moves that Pokemon should/should not be able to learn

Matleo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
2,758
Reaction score
394
How in blazes is Pelipper able to use Shock Wave?
maybe its associated with it's ability to cause rain?
you know how lighting is created in nature?
You know why during rainstorm we have storm clouds and lightings?
The wet air that is high above is cooled down the higher and near the cosmos.
Ice particles that are high up in the sky rub and create (-) energy that seeks the fastest way to get neutralized and conducts with the ground(+).
Practically ice types should be able to learn this.

Maybe Peliper if can summon rain, use ice attacks also should be able to produce lighting even if itself is weak to it when hit by it.
Remember even humans can create energy but that what hurts is the hitting by near/close contact. Like when you are electrized and touch your car then the energy you feel realeased as fast "heat". The energy only hurts when maintained to long or to long exposure thats why it's own attack would not hurt it, bc it's directly created and realesed energy and not hit by without preparation. Interesting would be if they would use Show Wave Pelipper as a defense mechanism against Pikachus attacks.
 
Last edited:

CynthiaLover

Geek of the Games
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
2,340
Reaction score
1,053
maybe its associated with it's ability to cause rain?
you know how lighting is created in nature?
You know why during rainstorm we have storm clouds and lightings?
The wet air that is high above is cooled down the higher and near the cosmos.
Ice particles that are high up in the sky rub and create (-) energy that seeks the fastest way to get neutralized and conducts with the ground(+).
Practically ice types should be able to learn this.

Maybe Peliper if can summon rain, use ice attacks also should be able to produce lighting even if itself is weak to it when hit by it.
Remember even humans can create energy but that what hurts is the hitting by near/close contact. Like when you are electrized and touch your car then the energy you feel realeased as fast "heat". The energy only hurts when maintained to long or to long exposure thats why it's own attack would not hurt it, bc it's directly created and realesed energy and not hit by without preparation. Interesting would be if they would use Show Wave Pelipper as a defense mechanism against Pikachus attacks.
Then by that logic, Pelipper should learn moves like Thunder, which is heavily associated with rain. But as I pointed out, it doesn't learn any other Elec moves besides Shock Wave. And, for that matter, Shock Wave isn't a storm-related move. It's an Elec-based Swift. And besides, Pelipper could learn Shock Wave before it gained access to Drizzle, so Drizzle isn't the sole reason it can do that. Like I said, if it could learn other Elec moves, then maybe it would make "some" sense, but it doesn't, which is why the move stands out like a sore thumb in its movepool. So, as a result, using storm-related logic with it doesn't actually hold a lot of water because if that logic was sound, then it could pick up moves like Thunder as well. But, given the fact that it's not only 4x weak to Elec but also doesn't learn any other moves of that type besides Shock Wave is what makes it odd. So, your reasoning isn't solid enough to be an explanation for the move existing in its arsenal.
 

prog rocker

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 27, 2018
Messages
1,664
Reaction score
2,029
Also, if Rain Dance/Drizzle was a criteria to make it learn Shock Wave, then that means the move would be way more common than it already is. For example, Blastoise and Feraligatr should have access to it.
 

Matleo

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
2,758
Reaction score
394
Then by that logic, Pelipper should learn moves like Thunder, which is heavily associated with rain. But as I pointed out, it doesn't learn any other Elec moves besides Shock Wave. And, for that matter, Shock Wave isn't a storm-related move. It's an Elec-based Swift. And besides, Pelipper could learn Shock Wave before it gained access to Drizzle, so Drizzle isn't the sole reason it can do that. Like I said, if it could learn other Elec moves, then maybe it would make "some" sense, but it doesn't, which is why the move stands out like a sore thumb in its movepool. So, as a result, using storm-related logic with it doesn't actually hold a lot of water because if that logic was sound, then it could pick up moves like Thunder as well. But, given the fact that it's not only 4x weak to Elec but also doesn't learn any other moves of that type besides Shock Wave is what makes it odd. So, your reasoning isn't solid enough to be an explanation for the move existing in its arsenal.
maybe because it can't control how the electricity goes out of it's body and thats while only Shock Wave can be created?
it flies also and maybe charges up in the sky somehow?
 

PkmnTrainerV

Flame Trainer
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
5,523
Reaction score
8,679
maybe because it can't control how the electricity goes out of it's body and thats while only Shock Wave can be created?
Ability to create rain =/= ability to create electricity. Otherwise most water types would learn electric moves.

it flies also and maybe charges up in the sky somehow?
It’ll faint if it gathers shock i.e. electricity (and) from external sources. If it didn’t it’d be resistant to electric moves or get lightning rod/motor drive like other Pokemon that absorb electricity for their advantage.
 

Dieter

Dieter
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
810
Reaction score
407
It seems like everyone and their mom can learn shock wave by TM/tutor. Porygon and the dratini line make sense, but why do furret or gothorita learn it? Thematically it doens't make more sense for them to learn shock wave than it does for pelipper.

However, the descriptions for shock wave all describe it as 'quick, 'a jolt', 'unavoidable', and so on. So combined with its fairly average power, it leads me to think the move itself is based on static electricity, which would explain why so many pokemon can learn it. Pelipper remains an odd choice though
 

PkmnTrainerV

Flame Trainer
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
5,523
Reaction score
8,679
Can something be done about toxic?

Almost all Pokemon can get it (even Pokemon that are too pure for their own good like Chansey). I don’t think it really makes sense for every Pokemon to be able to inflict lethal Poison on its opponent.

What if non-Poison types get to use the move with a lower accuracy or non-Poison types can only inflict regular poison with it instead of Toxic Poison? Poison types would be able to inflict bad poison using it though.

And if not that just reduce the move’s distribution.
 

Dieter

Dieter
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
810
Reaction score
407
Can something be done about toxic?

Almost all Pokemon can get it (even Pokemon that are too pure for their own good like Chansey). I don’t think it really makes sense for every Pokemon to be able to inflict lethal Poison on its opponent.

What if non-Poison types get to use the move with a lower accuracy or non-Poison types can only inflict regular poison with it instead of Toxic Poison? Poison types would be able to inflict bad poison using it though.

And if not that just reduce the move’s distribution.
Because , in Koga's words "Sealed within that TM lies Toxic! It is a secret technique dating back some four hundred years", so presumably it's man-made rather than a skill created by pokemon.
 

PkmnTrainerV

Flame Trainer
Joined
Jun 5, 2016
Messages
5,523
Reaction score
8,679
Because , in Koga's words "Sealed within that TM lies Toxic! It is a secret technique dating back some four hundred years", so presumably it's man-made rather than a skill created by pokemon.
Doesn’t necessarily imply that its man-made.
It could be just that the move was discovered 400 years ago. And there are Pokémon learning Toxic by level up, too. A skill created by man wouldn’t be a level up move.
 

CynthiaLover

Geek of the Games
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
2,340
Reaction score
1,053
I’ve heard that but it really doesn’t matter much when it’s non-poison type accuracy is very high- 90%.
I agree. 90% accuracy is way too high for such a potent, instant ailment move, especially on non-Poison Mons. They should cut its accuracy to 50% or something for non-Poison types, like how Dark Void got nerfed, thanks to Mr Lethal Joke Character: Smeargle. Or at least cut its distribution down. I mean, virtually every Mon that can learn TMs can learn Toxic, which looks very out of place on ones like Chancey, who are supposed to be healers by nature. Toxic is just too powerful of a move for such a wide-spread distribution. It really needs to be cut down either in terms of accuracy or distribution. Either way, it would be a welcome change to me.
 

Cute Charm

Mimikyu + Snover = Wolfman???
Joined
May 19, 2003
Messages
814
Reaction score
581
What if Toxic is just a joke about how everything in nature is has the possibility of being poisonous or toxic to something even if their not poisonous?

A Chancey with Toxic, for example, might be a rotten egg and/or have poison spit, Chespin may cause a nut allergy, Gothitelle is a goth alien maybe it has some kind of disease. That's why it could be optional for most pokemon to learn through a TM because maybe it just weaponizes their latent toxicity.
 

Nitro Indigo

Small ripples lead to big waves.
Joined
Mar 18, 2017
Messages
1,263
Reaction score
390
Now I want to see a Pokémon version of War of the Worlds.
 

Dieter

Dieter
Joined
Aug 3, 2010
Messages
810
Reaction score
407
Doesn’t necessarily imply that its man-made.
It could be just that the move was discovered 400 years ago. And there are Pokémon learning Toxic by level up, too. A skill created by man wouldn’t be a level up move.
Fair, but it is strongly implied. A ninja tells you that toxic is a 400 yo secret technique, not skill or ability. A technique is something learned and toxic falls in line with what a ninja does
 

Cute Charm

Mimikyu + Snover = Wolfman???
Joined
May 19, 2003
Messages
814
Reaction score
581
Now I want to see a Pokémon version of War of the Worlds.
There are enough alien based pokemon and a living meteorite that it could work.

Fair, but it is strongly implied. A ninja tells you that toxic is a 400 yo secret technique, not skill or ability. A technique is something learned and toxic falls in line with what a ninja does
TMs themselves are secret techniques. Maybe the ninja from 400 years ago figured out a way to turn it into a TM, but it never really became known to the general public until Koga or his predecessors started handing them out. Maybe the clan knew that it would pretty much make almost all pokemon venomous and kept it for biological weapon purposes and Koga comes along like "Hey kid, why don't you amplify your delicious leak duck's natural bacteria so nobody tries to eat it."
 
Last edited:

Nicolas721

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 13, 2014
Messages
1,382
Reaction score
1,554
I think that Toxic's wide distribution is due to a gameplay reason, as it provides a consistent way to deal damage on a very high percentage of opponents ending battles in around 5 turns and prevents wall abuse. It may also be a way to show that every Pokemon, even physical-oriented ones, can use "special and magical" powers.

As for the "biological" reason, I'm clueless, as it makes no sense that Pokemon don't use their corrosion powers more often.
 

Bob Fizzle

OBEY THE BEARD
Joined
Dec 29, 2016
Messages
186
Reaction score
285
I think that Toxic's wide distribution is due to a gameplay reason, as it provides a consistent way to deal damage on a very high percentage of opponents ending battles in around 5 turns and prevents wall abuse. It may also be a way to show that every Pokemon, even physical-oriented ones, can use "special and magical" powers.

As for the "biological" reason, I'm clueless, as it makes no sense that Pokemon don't use their corrosion powers more often.
The part that doesn't make sense to me about Toxic is that Pokemon are able to inflict Toxic on other Pokemon of the same species. This is especially puzzling given that the in-game animation generally shows the user secreting the toxins from their body.
 
Top