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Moves that Pokemon should/should not be able to learn

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I always thought it was weird that Pokemon like Nidoqueen, Aggron, Linoone, etc. can learn Surf (like how exactly would these Pokemon be able to surf on water? lol)
 
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I always thought it was weird that Pokemon like Nidoqueen, Aggron, Linoone, etc. can learn Surf (like how exactly would these Pokemon be able to surf on water? lol)
I that Incineroar didnt got it even if Pikachu did...
 
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Well, tigers do love water, but it being a Fire-Type would be problematic.
Emboar and Scald? also wrestler with surfer motive? it has fur and it would surf and not dive on it...
if rhydon , stunfisk, nidoking learned it? they could make it a breedable move actually.

why no one has a problem that all frogs learn ice moves?

why all water types learn so strong ice moves ? how taking some of those aquatic species are strictly warm water oriented?

I get Samuotrr but Primarina and Intelleon (with those special attacks???) and so strong ice moves like ice beam or blizzard? come on...
would make them learn frost breath, powder snow , aurora beam, ice punch , freeze dry, ice shard , icicle spear , ice ball as only options....
 
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Water freezes.

And they've got to do something to make up for the low abuncdance of Ice Types. There's only 55 and a lot or regions don't even have a quarter of that (plus by the time you've reached an area where you can catch ice types you've probably already got your team worked out).
 
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Yeah I'm going to second that Water types should not have near universal access to Ice type moves. Nor should Ground types have near universal access to Rock type moves, and vice versa. It unnecessarily blurs the distinction between them, and also kills the supposed advantage Flying types have over Ground, and Grass types over Water. It's harmful to the balance of the game. Some Pokemon should, sure, especially those who are dual typed. But it shouldn't be assumed that "well rocks are in or on the ground, so it makes sense". The ground is also adjacent to the air, and contains lava and steel. Should ground types also gain near universal access to fire, flying, and steel type moves? Or should they be reserved for those which are conceptually designed around that duality, like Torkoal, and should it be respected that not all relationships need be represented in the move pool?

Water freezes, sure. Ground melts into magma, but How are ground types supposed to melt it, and how are Water types supposed to Freeze the water to use Ice type moves? They no more possess supernatural cold (otherwise they'd be at least partially ice type) than ground types possess supernatural heat (barring being partially fire type). To me, it makes More sense for a Flying type to have access to Ice moves (since it gets colder the higher up you go) than it does for most water types.

This is true of a lot of coverage moves of course (oh well it has fangs, so why not fire, thunder, ice, and every other type of elemental fang move; or it has a fist, so why not fire, ice, thunder, and every other type of elemental punch move). In those cases as well, it makes no logical sense. Just because you can punch something doesn't mean you can wreath your fist in flame, especially when fire is super harmful to you (looking at you Galarian Darumaka), or electrify your punch, especially when you're immune to electricity because you're a ground type and are totally non-conductive (looking at you Gen 7 Geodude). I just think it's especially egregious in the case of Water types having Ice moves all over, because of how actively it destroys the game balance, considering that the starters are built around the idea that you have a cyclical relationship between fire, water, and grass. Having your water types know Ice moves, always, destroys that cyclical relationship, and in a game where very strong, very fast Pokemon can OHKO slower opponents, the "weakness" to grass types (which tend to be rather slow) disappears entirely. And in Kanto, Johto, Sinnoh, Kalos, and Galar, the Grass starter is approximately the same speed as the water starter, or is outright slower.
 
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Umbreon should have access to several Poison-type moves aside from Toxic. It makes no sense for its PokeDex entries to make mention of poisoning opponents and then only being able to learn one Poison move.
 
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Umbreon should have access to several Poison-type moves aside from Toxic. It makes no sense for its PokeDex entries to make mention of poisoning opponents and then only being able to learn one Poison move.
That's because Umbreon was originally going to be a Poison-Type and they just didn't update the dex entry.
 
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That's because Umbreon was originally going to be a Poison-Type and they just didn't update the dex entry.
Makes sense except its Pokedex entries in II, IV (the remakes), VII, and VIII all make mention of Umbreon secreting poison from its pores when agitated.
 
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Makes sense except its Pokedex entries in II, IV (the remakes), VII, and VIII all make mention of Umbreon secreting poison from its pores when agitated.
The Gen II and HGSS entries are there because that's what happened. Gen VII is a re-write of the Gold entry, and the Gen VIII uses the exact same wording as the Gen VII one.
 
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especially when fire is super harmful to you (looking at you Galarian Darumaka
Well... that’s not a really good example since it literally evolves into something that turns into a fire type, and has a (Darwinian) evolutionary relationship with fire types (Unovan Darumaka).
I don’t have any issue with some coverage being given for balancing reasons, but stuff like almost every water type getting an ice move when Ice types really need an incentive to be used is harmful for the type chart.
 
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Well... that’s not a really good example since it literally evolves into something that turns into a fire type, and has a (Darwinian) evolutionary relationship with fire types (Unovan Darumaka).
I don’t have any issue with some coverage being given for balancing reasons, but stuff like almost every water type getting an ice move when Ice types really need an incentive to be used is harmful for the type chart.
A fair point, that was a poor example to use, I was just looking for an example and jumped at the first ice type I saw without thinking it through. My apologies, and I agree- Some coverage moves are fine, and can be effectively used as a way to balance. It's when they're thrown around carelessly and detract from game balance rather than adding to it, with no conceptual justification, that I think both of us would rather see not happen, or at minimum occur less frequently.
 
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A fair point, that was a poor example to use, I was just looking for an example and jumped at the first ice type I saw without thinking it through. My apologies, and I agree- Some coverage moves are fine, and can be effectively used as a way to balance. It's when they're thrown around carelessly and detract from game balance rather than adding to it, with no conceptual justification, that I think both of us would rather see not happen, or at minimum occur less frequently.
Now that I think about it, Pokémon kinda suffers the opposite problem than most RPGs, where Water is borderline ignored and Ice does everything Water can do. For example, in Final Fantasy VI, the only (normal) Water spell had to be added in the GBA remake, and aside from that, there's only two usable Water abilities (Aqua Breath and the Bismarck summon).
 
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Now that I think about it, Pokémon kinda suffers the opposite problem than most RPGs, where Water is borderline ignored and Ice does everything Water can do. For example, in Final Fantasy VI, the only (normal) Water spell had to be added in the GBA remake, and aside from that, there's only two usable Water abilities (Aqua Breath and the Bismarck summon).
You've got a point. Ice and Water seem to have this issue with a lot of RPGs, where one is clearly the "true" element over the other despite saying otherwise. Another example would be Breath of Fire 4, where the main villain, Fou-Lu, is said to have an affinity for "Water", yet all of his abilities are Ice-based. And since he can't create combos like Ryu and co can, which would actually make Water-based moves, it shows that his "Water" is really "Ice" (though, as a result, it does make the whole Ryu VS Fou-Lu fight, where the former is Fire-based while the latter is "Ice"-based, make more sense, as Fire and Ice are polar opposites, as well as the fact the Empire frequently uses Fire against Fou-Lu to stop him). Scias from the same game also "suffers" from the same issue, though because he can create combos with other characters he gets bit of a pass there. The only real Water-based stuff in the game is the Water Bomb battle item. So, yeah, that's a pretty good point there.
 
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