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Moves that Pokemon should/should not be able to learn

RK9

Gen V was the peak.
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Okay so I since I really really really want Physical Electric-types to have more tools to use and not be forced to always go Specially Offensive cause the physical Electric movepool sucks, I went and checked who got Wild Charge. A trimmed down version of Volt Tackle. The list of physical attackers/Pokemon that could make use of it are:

Pikachu
Luxray
Zebstrika
Eelektross
Togdemaru
Tapu Koko
Solgaleo
Zeraora
Boltund
Raticate
Arcanine
Alola-Golem
Rapidash
Galar-Rapidash
Electabuzz
Tauros
Snorlax
Granbull
Delcatty
Electivire
Victini
Emboar
Stoutland
Sawsbuck
Klinklang
Bouffalant
Thunderus
Zekrom
Diggersby
Gogoat
Dedenne
Dubwool
Morpeko
Dracozolt
Arctozolt
Zacian
Zamazenta
Regieleki

Now, that's quite a list still. But now let's take out the Pokémon that on their own might not be able to generate that much electricity that they can access Volt Tackle. (For which Wild Charge is fine cause they can generate some electricity, just not as much as needed for Volt Tackle.)

but who would that leave?

Pikachu
Luxray
Zebstrika
Eelektross
Togdemaru
Tapu Koko
Zeraora
Boltund
Alola-Golem
Electabuzz
Electivire
Victini
Klinklang
Thunderus
Zekrom
Dedenne
Morpeko
Dracozolt
Arctozolt
Regieleki

Now, as you can see, that leaves mostly Electric-types with the exception of Victini and Klinklang. However, when we can go and lookw hat else they get and usually run in terms of sets, the list narrows down even less.

Eelektross, from what I know, usually prefers to make use of its Special movepool. Volt Tackle might make it go mixed, but other than Giga Drain, it can't heal of the recoil as easy. Tapu Koko doesn't have a physical Fairy-type move or Close Combat. This might ensure it might go mixed, at which point it won't make full use of it's attack stat anyways. Zeraora already has PLasma Fists which also comes with an added effect. Might still use it.

Alola-Golem with Galvanize has a better option in DOuble-Edge since that makes it a stronger Volt Tackle. Electivire usually goes mixed due to its movepool. It might trade Thunderbolt for Volt Tackle.

Victini's get access to Bolt Strike. No point in Volt Tackle. Thundurus-Incarnate might switch to a full Physical using Bulk Up as it currently goes special. Zekrom has Bolt Strike so no use in Volt Tackle here either. Morpeko has its own sig move too which ties in to its gimmick, so it might forego it too.

Dracozolt and Arctozolt can use it just fine. Regieleki is too frail to use it. Literally dies after it gets hit after.

So what does this leave? Realistically only a handful of Pokémon that would really benefit off of it so it's not like there's a huge rampage of shit going wild if Volt Tackle becomes widely available.

Tl;Dr. For the love of God, just distribute Volt Tackle widely already. It's literally the Electric-type equivalent of Double-Edge.
 
Piplup my beloved
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Okay so I since I really really really want Physical Electric-types to have more tools to use and not be forced to always go Specially Offensive cause the physical Electric movepool sucks, I went and checked who got Wild Charge. A trimmed down version of Volt Tackle. The list of physical attackers/Pokemon that could make use of it are:

Pikachu
Luxray
Zebstrika
Eelektross
Togdemaru
Tapu Koko
Solgaleo
Zeraora
Boltund
Raticate
Arcanine
Alola-Golem
Rapidash
Galar-Rapidash
Electabuzz
Tauros
Snorlax
Granbull
Delcatty
Electivire
Victini
Emboar
Stoutland
Sawsbuck
Klinklang
Bouffalant
Thunderus
Zekrom
Diggersby
Gogoat
Dedenne
Dubwool
Morpeko
Dracozolt
Arctozolt
Zacian
Zamazenta
Regieleki

Now, that's quite a list still. But now let's take out the Pokémon that on their own might not be able to generate that much electricity that they can access Volt Tackle. (For which Wild Charge is fine cause they can generate some electricity, just not as much as needed for Volt Tackle.)

but who would that leave?

Pikachu
Luxray
Zebstrika
Eelektross
Togdemaru
Tapu Koko
Zeraora
Boltund
Alola-Golem
Electabuzz
Electivire
Victini
Klinklang
Thunderus
Zekrom
Dedenne
Morpeko
Dracozolt
Arctozolt
Regieleki

Now, as you can see, that leaves mostly Electric-types with the exception of Victini and Klinklang. However, when we can go and lookw hat else they get and usually run in terms of sets, the list narrows down even less.

Eelektross, from what I know, usually prefers to make use of its Special movepool. Volt Tackle might make it go mixed, but other than Giga Drain, it can't heal of the recoil as easy. Tapu Koko doesn't have a physical Fairy-type move or Close Combat. This might ensure it might go mixed, at which point it won't make full use of it's attack stat anyways. Zeraora already has PLasma Fists which also comes with an added effect. Might still use it.

Alola-Golem with Galvanize has a better option in DOuble-Edge since that makes it a stronger Volt Tackle. Electivire usually goes mixed due to its movepool. It might trade Thunderbolt for Volt Tackle.

Victini's get access to Bolt Strike. No point in Volt Tackle. Thundurus-Incarnate might switch to a full Physical using Bulk Up as it currently goes special. Zekrom has Bolt Strike so no use in Volt Tackle here either. Morpeko has its own sig move too which ties in to its gimmick, so it might forego it too.

Dracozolt and Arctozolt can use it just fine. Regieleki is too frail to use it. Literally dies after it gets hit after.

So what does this leave? Realistically only a handful of Pokémon that would really benefit off of it so it's not like there's a huge rampage of shit going wild if Volt Tackle becomes widely available.

Tl;Dr. For the love of God, just distribute Volt Tackle widely already. It's literally the Electric-type equivalent of Double-Edge.
Spoiler: The real reason they don't wanna give it out already is cuz they wanna make Pikachu as exclusive as possible so people use it.

Yeah, like a 55 base attack mon will make more use of of it then a 100 (Zebstrika) or 115 (Koko) or 120 (Luxray) or 123 (Electivire), rightttt?

And fun fact, all of this mons can learn Wild Charge. It's it THAT hard for them to just,,, run faster?????
 
The cold is nigh
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Spoiler: The real reason they don't wanna give it out already is cuz they wanna make Pikachu as exclusive as possible so people use it.

Yeah, like a 55 base attack mon will make more use of of it then a 100 (Zebstrika) or 115 (Koko) or 120 (Luxray) or 123 (Electivire), rightttt?

And fun fact, all of this mons can learn Wild Charge. It's it THAT hard for them to just,,, run faster?????
Really says something when you have to keep shoving gimmick after gimmick to make your mascot usable and it’s still incredibly niche in any competitive setting.
 
Piplup my beloved
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Why isn't Jinx able to learn Quiver Dance?????

''OH BUT IT'S CALLED BUTTERFLY DANCE IN JAPANESE THEY AREN'T BUTTERFLIES OR MOTHS'' ok, then why does Bellossom and Liligant leans it?

Look at it's description:

''The user lightly performs a beautiful, mystic dance.''

And now for Jinx's dex entries:

Emerald: '' A Jynx sashays rhythmically as if it were dancing. Its motions are so bouncingly alluring, people seeing it are compelled to shake their hips without noticing. ''

Ultra Sun: ''It sways its hips to a rhythm all its own. The precise movements of Jynx living in Alola are truly wonderful.''

So, many dext entries talk abou how ''beautiful'' and ''mysterious'' it's dancing is. Then why it doesn't it gets it??
 
Piplup my beloved
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Really says something when you have to keep shoving gimmick after gimmick to make your mascot usable and it’s still incredibly niche in any competitive setting.
The funny thing is that Gigantamax Pikachu is ALSO super gimmicky. Oh, it paralizes everybody. But anything kills it, since it dies to a fart. A singe Fake Out from a 0 IV attack Incineroar already chunks it down to almost 50% percent.
 
Detroit SMAAAASH! Eevee style.
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Heck, Pikachu itself doesn't even benefit from having Volt Tackle that much. I mean, sure, it hits incredibly hard with its high base power combined with a Light Ball, but the recoil makes Pikachu very likely to either knock itself out or leave it incredibly vulnerable to being revenge-killed due to its low HP (something that was already a problem for it, since Pikachu is naturally very frail, so it can be OHKO'd by most things even at full health). Besides, now that Pikachu can learn Surf by TR, special movesets are more enticing.

Anyway, I think Espeon should be able to learn Solar Beam, Power Gem and Extrasensory. the first one because it's categorized as "the Sun Pokemon", so why not make it live up to that more properly? The second because it literally has a gem on its forehead, so why shouldn't it be able to learn this? The third mostly because Espeon's English name sounds like ESP, aka Extra Sensory Perception... I believe that one's self-explanatory. Oh, and speaking of Power Gem why on Earth is Aurorus still unable to learn it?
 
Piplup my beloved
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Heck, Pikachu itself doesn't even benefit from having Volt Tackle that much. I mean, sure, it hits incredibly hard with its high base power combined with a Light Ball, but the recoil makes Pikachu very likely to either knock itself out or leave it incredibly vulnerable to being revenge-killed due to its low HP (something that was already a problem for it, since Pikachu is naturally very frail, so it can be OHKO'd by most things even at full health). Besides, now that Pikachu can learn Surf by TR, special movesets are more enticing.

Anyway, I think Espeon should be able to learn Solar Beam, Power Gem and Extrasensory. the first one because it's categorized as "the Sun Pokemon", so why not make it live up to that more properly? The second because it literally has a gem on its forehead, so why shouldn't it be able to learn this? The third mostly because Espeon's English name sounds like ESP, aka Extra Sensory Perception... I believe that one's self-explanatory. Oh, and speaking of Power Gem why on Earth is Aurorus still unable to learn it?
When you look at who can learn it, you can see that nearly everyone who gets it it's cuz either:

1 - They are made out of stones or minerals, or at least inorganic material (Both Corsolas and Cursola, Lunatone, Dialga, Gigalith, Klinklang, Carbink and Diancie, Nihilego, Necrozma)

2 - They have pieces of gemstones on them (Slowking, Both Persians, Starmie, Sableye, Palkia,)

Then, Espeon also has a gem on it's body. And so does Amaura/Aurorus. Then WHY doesn't it gets it??? That's dumb
 
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Really says something when you have to keep shoving gimmick after gimmick to make your mascot usable and it’s still incredibly niche in any competitive setting.
Well the Raichu line didn't get any megas so I wouldn't say it keeps receiving gimmick after gimmick :p

I also don't think GMax!Pikachu or Eevee was meant to be competitively viable, isntead I think they are supposed to be a fun bonus for Let's Go players and were more tuned for in game use instead of competitive battles (which would likely be dominated wither by fully evovled mons anyway or pokemon that were considered fully evolved in the past and later got an evolution and the ability to use Evolite anyway)
 
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Well the Raichu line didn't get any megas so I wouldn't say it keeps receiving gimmick after gimmick :p
1. Only Pokémon to get 2 exclusive Z moves,
2. A regional variant for the evolution
3. A Gigantamax form
4. Hat forms every generation
5. Special partner form
6. All kinds of special event moves.

Even though it didn’t get Megas it got everything else under the Sun.
 
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I coem to this thread with an inquiry in Cinccino,namely on whether or not it or other Skill Link users should have access to all multi-hit moves for coverage sake (Scale Shot, Icicle Spear, etc), if the moves their currently have suffice or if there are some moves such pokemon should access but can't despite logically being able to use them?
 
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To this day I'm still surprised that Chingling can't learn Heal Bell naturally, only via Tutor. The Mon is a freakin' literal bell! Why in the hell can't it learn a move that has the word "Bell" in it naturally when it literally IS a bell!? That just makes no sense. Yeah, sure, it's evolution Chimecho gets it, but why not Chingling itself? While it won't make it some sort of superstar, the fact that a literal bell Mon can't learn Heal Bell naturally is strange.
 
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Why can Gyrados learn Hyper Beam? It’s a physical attacker, so it isn’t going to use it, and even if you did get it, it has a pathetic SpA, so why give it the move in the first place?
 

RK9

Gen V was the peak.
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Why can Gyrados learn Hyper Beam? It’s a physical attacker, so it isn’t going to use it, and even if you did get it, it has a pathetic SpA, so why give it the move in the first place?
Cause it's design is based on snea snakes, Chinese dragons and carps turning into dragons. They never look at Special Attakc and Physical attack when distributing moves or else Kyurem-Black would have had Icicle Crash by now.
 
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Why can Gyrados learn Hyper Beam? It’s a physical attacker, so it isn’t going to use it, and even if you did get it, it has a pathetic SpA, so why give it the move in the first place?
Well, you have to remember a few things. First off, Hyper Beam was Physical for Gens 1-3, as the Physical/Special split didn't happen until Gen 4, which was also the gen that gave us Giga Impact, the physical version of Hyper Beam. Thus, during Gens 1-3, Hyper Beam feed off of Gyrarados' Physical attack. Secondly, most of Gyrados' dex entries mention that it uses Hyper Beam for mass destruction whenever enraged, so, under most circumstances, when a dex entry mentions a move, that Mon will most likely know it (though there are some noteworthy exceptions, like Rhyhorn not learning Tackle despite many of its entries mentioning its destructive Tackles). And, finally, just because a Mon is more geared to a certain stat doesn't mean it'll only learn moves for that stat. Theivul and Unfezant are good examples, as the former is a Special hitter but mostly learns Physical moves while the latter is a Physical hitter but learns mostly Special moves. It's strange but that's how it goes.
 
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Well, you have to remember a few things. First off, Hyper Beam was Physical for Gens 1-3, as the Physical/Special split didn't happen until Gen 4, which was also the gen that gave us Giga Impact, the physical version of Hyper Beam. Thus, during Gens 1-3, Hyper Beam feed off of Gyrarados' Physical attack. Secondly, most of Gyrados' dex entries mention that it uses Hyper Beam for mass destruction whenever enraged, so, under most circumstances, when a dex entry mentions a move, that Mon will most likely know it (though there are some noteworthy exceptions, like Rhyhorn not learning Tackle despite many of its entries mentioning its destructive Tackles). And, finally, just because a Mon is more geared to a certain stat doesn't mean it'll only learn moves for that stat. Theivul and Unfezant are good examples, as the former is a Special hitter but mostly learns Physical moves while the latter is a Physical hitter but learns mostly Special moves. It's strange but that's how it goes.
Okay, thanks. That makes much more sense now.
 
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Why can Gyrados learn Hyper Beam? It’s a physical attacker, so it isn’t going to use it, and even if you did get it, it has a pathetic SpA, so why give it the move in the first place?
Cause in the first gen Hyper Beam was broken also it was physichal.

I remember how in my school everyone believed it was a dragon type move since Lance spammed it.

When we realized it was just normal we were dissapointed.

Speaking of Normal Types how can Tauros learn Throat Chop? does he do it with his horns ?(Ouch.)
 
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Tangentially related, but I think it’s ridiculous how Synchronise fails to act in two of the most important Status conditions- Sleep and freeze.
 
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