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Moves that Pokemon should/should not be able to learn

Lycanroc should have a Ground type move. Like, Dig or Earthquake. Something, please.
 
Milotic should have Calm Mind, it fits that Pokemon perfectly! And it would allow her to do what Suicune does with a CrocCune set (Scald or Surf, Rest, Sleep Talk, Calm Mind) but then even better, abusing Marvel Scale's defense boost.
 
I always felt like there was something... odd, about Piplup, Prinplup and Empoleon being able to use Bubble and BubbleBeam. I can chalk it up to just Pokemon things, but I imagine it's weird to blow bubbles from a beak.

but its not odd that to many of water starters and water pokemon are learning ice beam and too strong ice attacks?

Serperior and Deciduey should learn Confusion.

grass starters would need more type coverage on both physical and special side.

Especially Venusaur that needs to learn atleast one per type of this:

-fighting(??? it has vines to do some serious fighting moves you know?),
-dark(??? really should get something taking it vines can be used for it),
-ghost (maybe lick ???)
-rock (rock blast, rock throw, rock slide, something???)
-dragon (it should learn dual chop, it can use cut or not? or dragon pulse)
 
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-fighting(??? it has vines to do some serious fighting moves you know?),
-dark(??? really should get something taking it vines can be used for it),
There's no way to spin "It has vines" as a justification for anything but a Grass-type move. (especially not just "it can fight with its vines"-fighting is kinda how battles work)
-ghost (maybe lick ???)
What good would a 30BP move do for coverage?
-rock (rock blast, rock throw, rock slide, something???)
I can see the use for coverage, but it seems to me that's exactly why it's not getting any-it'd overpower Charizard and leave Charizard the weakest of the Kanto starters. (also, no Grass or Poison type can learn Rock Blast or Rock Throw, so it's kinda hard to say Venusaur should be the first)
-dragon (it should learn dual chop, it can use cut or not? or dragon pulse)
There is literally no correlation between Dual Chop and Cut. (plus, Cut is an HM-it's put on a lot of Pokemon so it can be accessible) The learners of Dual Chop are all bipedal, and Venusaur clearly isn't.
 
There's no way to spin "It has vines" as a justification for anything but a Grass-type move. (especially not just "it can fight with its vines"-fighting is kinda how battles work)

other grass pokemon learn fighting and dark type moves.
many pokemon with similar typing and body, and vines can use those by using their vines and leafs.
But some are leted out and thats why grass types have hard.

Victribel line, Tangela line and Venusaur line would need more coverage(fighting against steel) now days seeing what harder oponnents they need to battle against.
Plus the anime showed many situations where pure grass types use fighting type moves.
Lame un-justification not learning a fighting type move becuase of vines, the vines it uses as arms and forarm together and it can jump and rotate something with its body, throwing and tossing moves should be posibble.


What good would a 30BP move do for coverage?
then what about shadow ball? so many pokemon learn it.

I can see the use for coverage, but it seems to me that's exactly why it's not getting any-it'd overpower Charizard and leave Charizard the weakest of the Kanto starters. (also, no Grass or Poison type can learn Rock Blast or Rock Throw, so it's kinda hard to say Venusaur should be the first)

ok thats more reasonable, but on the other hand it should get some other coverage against the bug type(or a new grass move SE on bugs)
I wonder if it could learn a steel type move like iron head against the ice types?
I wanted something to let it take down flying. Or should be abble as a grass/poison plant learn a electric move for that? but what one? (no thunderbolt)
It has one only physical ground moves, should get earth power in my opinion.

There is literally no correlation between Dual Chop and Cut. (plus, Cut is an HM-it's put on a lot of Pokemon so it can be accessible) The learners of Dual Chop are all bipedal, and Venusaur clearly isn't.

when do you need be bipedal if you have 2 strong vines to chop something? what other dragon move then would you suggest?
Dragon breath? its a toad, it shouldnt have problems with that.
it has no tail and claws to do dragon claw or dragon tail.

The same goeas for meganium that should be abble to use more head based moves.
 
other grass pokemon learn fighting and dark type moves.
I never said "no Grass-type Pokemon should learn Fighting or Dark-type moves." What I said was this:

There's no way to spin "It has vines" as a justification for anything but a Grass-type move. (especially not just "it can fight with its vines"-fighting is kinda how battles work)

Your justification for Venusaur learning Fighting and Dark moves was entirely based on its vines, a plant-based part of the Pokemon. Other Grass-types have more reasons to learn those moves-a body built for more martial-arts based moves, or being of the Fighting or Dark types themselves.
many pokemon with similar typing and body, and vines can use those by using their vines and leafs.
Vileplume can learn one Dark-type move (Fling, which usually can only be used once in a battle) and no Fighting moves.

Victreebell can learn two Dark-type moves (one of which is Fling), and no Fighting moves.

Roserade learns no Dark or Fighting moves.

Amoongus learns two Dark-type moves and no Fighting moves. (It also has no vines or leaves)

That's every Grass/Poison line.

But some are leted out and thats why grass types have hard.
I can't even understand what you're saying here.
Victribel line, Tangela line and Venusaur line would need more coverage(fighting against steel) now days seeing what harder oponnents they need to battle against.
A) No Pokemon is going to take down every other Pokemon. That's why we have teams of six.
B) No Pokemon will have coverage across every other type.
C) Why are Steel types suddenly a "harder opponent"? They've been around for quite some time now.

Plus the anime showed many situations where pure grass types use fighting type moves.
Because some pure-Grass types can learn those moves. Doesn't mean every Grass-type should learn them-there's more to the moves Pokemon learn than just their type.
Lame un-justification not learning a fighting type move becuase of vines,
Let me reiterate: I am not saying no Grass-type should learn Fighting moves. What I am saying is that it makes no sense to claim that vines alone are justification for an attack. You said this:
-fighting(??? it has vines to do some serious fighting moves you know?),
Your only reasoning for Venusaur to learn Fighting-type moves was because it can fight with vines.

Every Pokemon can fight. That's literally the whole point of the game. That does not mean every Pokemon will learn a Fighting-type move.
the vines it uses as arms and forarm together
Vines bound together are not as strong as flesh and muscle.
ok thats more reasonable, but on the other hand it should get some other coverage against the bug type(or a new grass move SE on bugs)
Why??? Venusaur isn't even weak to Bug.
I wonder if it could learn a steel type move like iron head against the ice types?
I could see that being justified, but I also don't think it's really worth adding in. Venusaur's already got STAB against Rock and Fairy, the only other types Steel is strong against. Why add in an attack to hit one type super effectively when Ice doesn't even resist its STAB?
I wanted something to let it take down flying. Or should be abble as a grass/poison plant learn a electric move for that? but what one? (no thunderbolt)
"should be able as a grass/poison"? None of the others can learn Electric moves, either.
It has one only physical ground moves, should get earth power in my opinion.
It's still got a strong Physical attack, and the Ground-type coverage. Not every Pokemon is gonna be the ultimate attacker, some moves are left out to keep them in check.
when do you need be bipedal if you have 2 strong vines to chop something?
When every other Pokemon that learns the move is bipedal, and the move is only learned by leveling up. (or tutor in Gen 6)
what other dragon move then would you suggest?
None! It doesn't need a Dragon move!
 
Your justification for Venusaur learning Fighting and Dark moves was entirely based on its vines, a plant-based part of the Pokemon. Other Grass-types have more reasons to learn those moves-a body built for more martial-arts based moves, or being of the Fighting or Dark types themselves.

more reasons??? it should get some more coverage and can use those vines better then arms and forearms in some cases like trowing or tossing something.
if you would need to add it a fighting or dark type move what would you give it?
What other coverage of moves that it doesnt have from other types would you add it?

Vileplume can learn one Dark-type move (Fling, which usually can only be used once in a battle) and no Fighting moves.

Victreebell can learn two Dark-type moves (one of which is Fling), and no Fighting moves.

Roserade learns no Dark or Fighting moves.

Amoongus learns two Dark-type moves and no Fighting moves. (It also has no vines or leaves)

That's every Grass/Poison line.

thats lame seeing they need a little of that kind of coverage.
Taking that other grass types get it even not having the poison secondary type.

I can't even understand what you're saying here.

grass/poison pokes would need some more coverage of dark and fighting against psychic, ghost and steel.
The same would be some more other moves of other types.
Think of it.

A) No Pokemon is going to take down every other Pokemon. That's why we have teams of six.
B) No Pokemon will have coverage across every other type.
C) Why are Steel types suddenly a "harder opponent"? They've been around for quite some time now.

A) some pokes got 2 types some are monotyped, some have very great coverage of moves like Charizard with higher base status without any reason and others like venusaur have it hard without any reason?
B) Yes but some more coverage would be good taking that water and fire pokemon got really much better coverage against diffrent foes, check the list thats on this site with the moves that base power is 60 or higher.
C) for grass/poison they are great oponents also like the psychic types.

I dont know why you think grass/poison pokes should not learn more fighting, dark and other coverage moves taking that other pokemon from other types got much more coverage. Especially the cae of a starter pokemon like Venusaur.

Vines bound together are not as strong as flesh and muscle.

but using ropes with the right way with mass and jump techniques can make wonders.


Why??? Venusaur isn't even weak to Bug.
ok tusche, it has enogh normal type moves for that.

I could see that being justified, but I also don't think it's really worth adding in. Venusaur's already got STAB against Rock and Fairy, the only other types Steel is strong against. Why add in an attack to hit one type super effectively when Ice doesn't even resist its STAB?

ice/steel? ice/poison? ice/dragon? rock/dragon? rock/grass? rock/bug? fairy/poison?
what if the oponent has a dual typing that resists its grass and poison moves? how many do we have that can do that by now?
ok, that makes sense, but some dragon, ghost ,fighting and dark coverage should be posibble or not?
Even a fairy move in Vensuaurs case should be posibble if it can learn Solar beam?
why not make it learn Dazzling Gleam or Flash canon(steel)?

should be able as a grass/poison"? None of the others can learn Electric moves, either.

thats a little bad after 7 generations taking that acid batteries are known and scientist try to create biological energy trees.

It's still got a strong Physical attack, and the Ground-type coverage. Not every Pokemon is gonna be the ultimate attacker, some moves are left out to keep them in check.

in check but coverage for the special oriented oponents?
If something can user energy ball, solar beam, then why not earth power?

what about Venusaur vs Shedinja? vs Aegislash? vs Kangaskhan?
vs Ditto?
what starters have the most change of beating them and what the less?
I know not every pokemon needs to beat the other but some type coverage should be there like let bulbasaur line learn signal beam against psychic types if it can learn solar beam.

None! It doesn't need a Dragon move!

then give it Dazzling Gleam against dragons.
It should be abble to use a weak dragon move.
 
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what if the oponent has a dual typing that resists its grass and poison moves?
Don't use Venusaur against it? It's a simply very bad matchup. It seems as if your sole target is that each and every Pokemon learns move of every random type ever.

then give it Dazzling Gleam against dragons.
How does Dazzling gleam make sense on Venusaur? There is nothing shiny, magic or fairy like in Venusaur. Infact, it's the opposite: full of poison, dirt (poison has dirt), and its just like a toad. Nothing magical there.
 
Don't use Venusaur against it? It's a simply very bad matchup. It seems as if your sole target is that each and every Pokemon learns move of every random type ever.
no but check the list of physical/special moves it learns with power bigger then 60 base and what coverage do the other starter pokemon get through out generations?

How does Dazzling gleam make sense on Venusaur? There is nothing shiny, magic or fairy like in Venusaur. Infact, it's the opposite: full of poison, dirt (poison has dirt), and its just like a toad. Nothing magical there.

beam based move, if you can use solar energy then magic shouldnt be a problem that much? or would you preffer play rough or a dragon move?

If something: what kind of extra coverage would you add to it?
fighting, fairy, dragon, dark, other??? what kind of moves ? and why?

(Lets say: maybe Gastro Acid? belsproutt learns it and serperior???)
 
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no but check the list of physical/special moves it learns with power bigger then 60 base and what coverage doe the other starter pokemon get through out generations?

Exactly how is this relevant to the conversation? (Mega) Venusaur has powerful enough moves to hold its own in OU.

I think every Kanto starter has enough coverage and dosen't need more of it.

On the topic:
I think Typhlosion needs: Scald (Emboar learns it, and Typhlosion's supposed to be a Volcano, so like Volcanion it should be able to learn it to), Earth Power, Thunderbolt (static electricity). It desperately needs this coverage. Maybe throw in energy Ball so it can hold its own against other Pokemon and making it a better choice than Delphox or Houndoom (which according to smogon are recommended to use in its place).
 
I think every Kanto starter has enough coverage and dosen't need more of it.

why did Venusaur get the less coverage then the other two?
check out what coverage type wise do they have. They can , it not? it also has a rivalry with them and others.

nice ideas with Typhlosion.
 
why did Venusaur get the less coverage then the other two?
check out what coverage type wise do they have. They can , it not? it also has a rivalry with them and others.

nice ideas with Typhlosion.

What? Last time I checked Mega Venusaur is the most viable Mega starter as a stall and fairy-slayer.
http://www.smogon.com/dex/sm/pokemon/venusaur/

In fact, Blastoise is the only Kanto mega starter that isn't OU. And Charizard's the weakest non-mega Kanto starter. It's PU and Venusaur and Blastoise are RU.

And NO, if you're talking in an anime context, they have a rivalry (which dosen't count here), but for competitive purposes they have NO rivalry. Need a fire type for your team? Charizard's and option. Need a WATER type? Blastoise is right there. Need a grass type? Venusaur's there!
And that's ignoring the fact that many people have more Pokemon of one type than 1.
 
if you would need to add it a fighting or dark type move what would you give it?
This is a ridiculous question because there isn't a need to give it a Fighting or Dark type move. It does fine with its current movepool, doesn't need it for its design, doesn't need it to keep up with other Pokemon of the same type, and has gone seven generations without gaining one. The only reason we're talking about it is because you want it to have a move of every type.

but using ropes with the right way with mass and jump techniques can make wonders.
Ropes. Not vines.
ok tusche, it has enogh normal type moves for that.
Why use Normal-type moves when it gets STAB on Poison? Bug doesn't resist Poison, either.
ice/steel? ice/poison? ice/dragon? rock/dragon? rock/grass? rock/bug? fairy/poison?
Grass-type moves would still hit Rock/Dragon, Rock/Grass, and Rock/Bug with regular effectiveness. Venusaur is not weak to any of their STABs.

Poison-type moves would still hit Ice/Dragon, Rock/Dragon, Rock/Grass, Rock/Bug, and Fairy/Poison with regular effectiveness. Venusaur is not weak to any of their STABs.

Out of that whole list, there are only two type combinations that Venusaur would actually have to worry about. One of them (Ice/Steel) has a glaring double weakness. The other (Ice/Poison) does not currently exist.

So, no, I don't think Venusaur needs Steel coverage.
what if the oponent has a dual typing that resists its grass and poison moves? how many do we have that can do that by now?
Dragon/Poison, Fire/Poison, Ghost/Poison, pure Poison, resist Grass and Poison, but are weak to Ground, which Venusaur has with Earthquake. (Bug/Poison is hit neutrally by Ground) The only combination I could see that would resist both without a weakness is Poison/Flying.

But here's the thing-even with Venusaur's fantastic coverage, it doesn't need to be able to hit every Pokemon out there. No Pokemon is going to be able to take on all others-that's why people have teams.
what about Venusaur vs Shedinja? vs Aegislash? vs Kangaskhan?
vs Ditto?
Battles aren't just about types. There's movesets, abilities, stats, items, and other factors to consider. There's no one answer to "would a Venusaur beat a Shedinja?" because the battle can go all sorts of ways. (and you shouldn't be looking to counter one specific Pokemon with it)

thats a little bad after 7 generations taking that acid batteries are known and scientist try to create biological energy trees.
Biological energy trees? ...So, photosynthesis?

Also, there's nothing "bad" about not having a design yet. We can't have every possible Pokemon designed all at once.

I think Typhlosion needs: Scald (Emboar learns it, and Typhlosion's supposed to be a Volcano, so like Volcanion it should be able to learn it to), Earth Power, Thunderbolt (static electricity). It desperately needs this coverage. Maybe throw in energy Ball so it can hold its own against other Pokemon and making it a better choice than Delphox or Houndoom (which according to smogon are recommended to use in its place).
Personally, I feel like it's got enough coverage with Solar Beam and Thunder Punch, but adding in Thunderbolt and Energy Ball to free up choices (don't have to force it to be a mixed attacker or to get sunlight) would help it get more use!
 
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