Moves that Pokemon should/should not be able to learn

[Kirby4ever]

Cosmoem got Heavy Slam?

Cosmoem can't move and heavy slam involves moving.

 

[Matleo]

Magneton a fire type move. Heat Wave or fire spin?
(electricity +steel can create heat and fire)

Pokemon with Magnet Pull rather should not only trap a steel type but get SE moves also to counter them better and maybe a extra steel resistance?

 

[TechSkylander1518]

(electricity +steel can create heat and fire)

Electrical fires are caused by electric sparks setting something else on fire, not because electricity and steel are prone to creating it. (We wouldn't use it as a common power source if it did)

Pokemon with Magnet Pull rather should not only trap a steel type but get SE moves also to counter them better and maybe a extra steel resistance?

Of the three lines with Magnet Pull as an ability, two of them already have SE moves against Steel types. This is not hard to look up.

 

[Bob Fizzle]

Electrical fires are caused by electric sparks setting something else on fire, not because electricity and steel are prone to creating it. (We wouldn't use it as a common power source if it did)

The fact that metal is so conductive means that it actually heats up less compared to other materials by coursing electricity through it. Given that and the fact that Magnezone is essentially a giant computer anyway, it really has no business using fire-type moves.

On a somewhat related but off-topic note, there really should be an electric-type move that has a chance to burn the foe. Hmm, off to the new moves thread...

 

[Matleo]

Electrical fires are caused by electric sparks setting something else on fire, not because electricity and steel are prone to creating it. (We wouldn't use it as a common power source if it did

Heat Wave? should be posibble , do you know how much heat engines produce when they are non stop working?
Plus you need a lot of electricity and right metal to produce heat, and that would be interesting for Magneton. This way it could trap steel/fairies, and make a good hit on Aegislash.

Of the three lines with Magnet Pull as an ability, two of them already have SE moves against Steel types. This is not hard to look up.

But why trap only steel types? why not electric too?

would be cool if it got buffed and related somehow to steel and electric type moves... magnetism and electromagnetism wasnt used much in the games really. They could focus more on that next generations and buff, change some things.
But thats rather for the new ability(magnet push, magnet armor) and new moves thread. (water also reacts to magnetic fields)

Im comparance to arena trap and shadow tag its really "weak" when couting the amount of pokemon it really works on.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

But why trap only steel types? why not electric too?

Becuase magnets don’t stop the flow of electricity.

 

[Matleo]

Becuase magnets don’t stop the flow of electricity.

really? do you know the Meissner(Meissner–Ochsenfeld) effect?

its not "stoping it" but changing it into a circle that it can't escape.

or the subcjet abot batteries and trapping electricity?

teoretically lightingrod should be abble also to trap a electric type pokemon... but ehhh...
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Lycanroc --> Boom-burst

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

teoretically lightingrod should be abble also to trap a electric type pokemon... but ehhh...

No. Lightning rod is just the Pokémon equivalent of the earthing system. A shock is given, which is then absorbed.

 

[TechSkylander1518]

Heat Wave? should be posibble , do you know how much heat engines produce when they are non stop working?

Do you honestly think the Magnemite line is based on engines?

Plus you need a lot of electricity and right metal to produce heat, and that would be interesting for Magneton.

So, we've gone from "electricity and metal commonly produce heat" to "you need a lot of electricity and the right metal to produce heat, so Magneton, a bundle of iron balls and magnets, should definitely fit".

This way it could trap steel/fairies, and make a good hit on Aegislash.

Geez, where to begin here.
a) There are only three Steel/Fairy types. You're advocating for a change based on how one line interacts with four Pokemon.
b) Magnet Pull still works just fine on Steel/Fairy types.
c) Steel/Fairy types actually pose less of a problem for the Magnemite line than other Steel-types. Their Fairy type means that they take neutral damage from Steel rather than resisting it.
d) All four of these Pokemon take neutral damage from Electric, the Magnemite line's other STAB type.

You're trying to fix incredibly specific problems that don't even exist.

But why trap only steel types? why not electric too?

This has nothing to do with the part of my post that you quoted.

Im comparance to arena trap and shadow tag its really "weak" when couting the amount of pokemon it really works on.

And Magnet Pull is the only one of the three that has an out-of-battle effect.

really? do you know the Meissner(Meissner–Ochsenfeld) effect?
its not "stoping it" but changing it into a circle that it can't escape.

The Meissner-Ochsenfield effect is about how a superconductor will expel magnetic fields when it becomes a superconductor. It is nothing like you described.

or the subcjet abot batteries and trapping electricity?

Batteries don't trap electricity, they generate it.

 

[Matleo]

Batteries don't trap electricity, they generate it.

maintain not generate.

The Meissner-Ochsenfield effect is about how a superconductor will expel magnetic fields when it becomes a superconductor. It is nothing like you described.

yes if energy is trapped in a circle only. You know that all electric lines are circles that you send energy through and that is lost through our usement , loss of energy through heating and electromagnetism emission.

Supercounductor circles are endless becuse there is very low heat emission and losses due to material transmission through metal Fe(iron) not occur like in regural high and medium voltage lines

And Magnet Pull is the only one of the three that has an out-of-battle effect.

in battle effetcs are more important for me and for players then out-of-battle ones.
Magnet Pull should attract steel type attacks atlest like lightingrod does with electric ones.

Magneton is made out of metal, and it generates energy itself...
it really could work like a heat fan using its energy righ, there is steelix it could hurt well...
every metal and material that you put to much electric energy generates heat (resistance mechanism) till it burns or melts down and looses transmission values.
.

 

[Bob Fizzle]

Can we stop talking about the Meissner-Ochsenfeld effect? Not only does it only apply to superconductors, but it also only applies during their transition to the superconducting state, which is generally less than -250 degrees Celsius. Clearly the effect has no bearing on ambient temperatures.

in battle effetcs are more important for me and for players then out-of-battle ones.
Magnet Pull should attract steel type attacks atlest like lightingrod does with electric ones.

Magneton is made out of metal, and it generates energy itself...

And speak for yourself about the importance of abilities outside of battle. I, for one, find abilities that work outside of battle to be invaluable for tasks such as level grinding and looking for specific Pokemon.

Also, Magneton is observed in the anime to feed on electrical currents, so it doesn't actually generate electricity.

every metal and material that you put to much electric energy generates heat (resistance mechanism) till it burns or melts down and looses transmission values.

Which is why dissipation and heat sinks are a thing that exist. And that is also only true for electric fields, not electrostatic fields, such as those created by the accumulation of an excess charge, which happens to be what Magneton does.

Batteries don't trap electricity, they generate it.

maintain not generate.

And while we're being pedantic about how batteries work, they actually convert chemical energy into electrical energy via spontaneous redox reactions, during which free electrons are able to move along a conducting path from the anode to the cathode. While this conversion process is not a generation of electrical energy per se, it is much more akin to a turbine converting mechanical energy into electrical energy, especially if the voltaic cell is not rechargeable. In a rechargeable cell, the electrical energy is not trapped so much as it is stored in the anode.

 

[Matleo]

Also, Magneton is observed in the anime to feed on electrical currents, so it doesn't actually generate electricity.

but it uses it for attacks or dont? What the problem?
transformers and converters also use energy and create heat.
Heat Rotom is now part electric and can use a fire type move?
I dont understand you other pokemon got moves in the past like iron tail even if they had non and this is more logical.

good that it got magnet rise atleast.
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you can load energy in and out of the battery , "storing" is some kind of "trapping" if you think of it , you dont create it or change it from water movement into electricity or from nuclear heat into turbine movement what to generate really means. But the energy is lost becuse materials that should hold it are not perfect and energy needs to float.

In a rechargeable cell, the electrical energy is not trapped so much as it is stored in the anode.

ok. lets say partial trapping for one or two turns for electric. But should electric pokemon get trapped at all?(yes, they are material, plus magnet pull could make them poralise so that they could not switch out so easy with volt switch )

 

[Bob Fizzle]

Heat Rotom is an electrical poltergeist that has possessed a freaking oven. Using that as a justification for Magnezone is like comparing apples to chicken. And the bit about other Pokemon using moves like iron tail is rather irrelevant to what Magnezone can or can't do.

And yes, trapping is somewhat like storing, but the key difference is that "trapping" something implies that it is being held there at a cost, whereas "storing" something does not have the same cost. Energy can be "trapped", but this is different than storing in that trapped energy generally cannot be re-released except for the destruction of the trapping device.

And to your last point, the electrical charge that is coursed into the battery is stored, not the electrical field itself. We already have an in-game held item, the cell battery, that approximates this effect in terms of a Pokemon battle. Also, electrostatic fields and even an electric current are not the same as unaligned ferrous material. The former two cannot have their electrons realigned by the magnetic field in order to create an attractive force, the "pulling" effect of the ability's namesake. Seriously, go try it at home.

 

[Matleo]

And yes, trapping is somewhat like storing, but the key difference is that "trapping" something implies that it is being held there at a cost, whereas "storing" something does not have the same cost. Energy can be "trapped", but this is different than storing in that trapped energy generally cannot be re-released except for the destruction of the trapping device.

try to read it after a while.

Seriously, go try it at home.

dont bully around I know more then you pretend to think you know. You guys really like to change the subjects proptly...
Its a pokemon a levitating magnet that self generates large nergy for a Thunder... and you tell me that it cant change this energy into a Heat Wave? Dont be silly.

 

[Zeb]

Some more Spiky Shield uses could be fun. I think it could fit Ferrothorn and Sandslash. Maybe Torterra at a bit of a push too.

Autotomize on Glalie would be a nice addition too. It's basically a rock covered in Ice, so it fits with most of the other Pokemon that can learn the move.

Acrobatics on Ninjask would be a cool buff. Might make for a viable cleaner with that 160 Speed.

Solar Blade Solrock and Lunar Dance Lunatone. Lunar Dance is Cresselia's signature move, but I think sharing it with something like Lunatone is perfectly fair. Not like Lunatone is all that good.

Heat Wave on Driblim. I mean, it's based on a hot air balloon and lots of other Flying-types can learn it.

Beat Up and Power Trip Honchkrow. It's a mob boss, so both feel fitting. Power Trip has nice synergy with Moxie too, if you get it snowballing enough.

Shore Up on Wormadam-Sandy and Recover on Wormadam-Trash. Might help them stand out a bit more.

Parting Shot on Scrafty, Banette, Honckrow, Liepard and Incineroar.

Crabhammer on Crustle.

Mirror Coat Cryogonal.

 

[FroyoDragon]

Hey guys, just a reminder, let's not get too heated here; debate is supposed to be fun, no need to get hostile nor rude :3

 

[Sana]

get Pulseman on the Switch VC somehow and give Ledian Volt Tackle as an event move
get Giga Wrecker on the Switch so more than about 3 people play that game and give Garbodor Rock Wrecker

okay for Giga Wrecker I wouldn't expect any kind of acknowldgement, and I wouldn't see them ever giving away Pikachu's signature move either. Though Ledian learning some electric physical move (Thunderpunch? would go well with the action hero design and concept) would be interesting.

 

[Matleo]

Spoiler: USUM Spoilers

Magnet rise for the new dragon/poison UB pokemon in future.

 

[PkmnTrainerV]

Spoiler: USUM Spoilers

Magnet rise for the new dragon/poison UB pokemon in future.

Spoiler

It makes no sense. There's nothing magnetic about the UB.

 

[Matleo]

Spoiler

It makes no sense. There's nothing magnetic about the UB.

what magnetic is about Porygon, Probopass, Fortress, Vanilite, Larvesta, Amaura, , Mew, Nosepass, Mawile, Agrron, Lucario, Honeedge line, Klefki?

Yes it knows fly, but it knows other electric attacks, why not say it uses it's acid to produce electric energy for magnet rise purpose?
Look at other pokemon with magnet rise, the other UB rock/steel also got it.
This way ground weaknees is less like one moveslot, but youcan try out diffrent strategies.

Magnet Rise (move) - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia