Movie 11 DVD cover art

[Musashi]

Except that Brock and Dawn are BOTH sidekicks more or less.

No, Satoshi and Hikari are clearly equals while Takeshi is a sidekick.

And I'm looking at the Jirachi DVD on my shelf, and Ash, May, Brock, and Max are all on there. So is Jirachi (that movie's "cute Legendary").

Well maybe PUSA will put Brock on the final cover, but Piplup was referring to the Japanese cover where he's not present at all. And I think it's obvious Shaymin will be on the final cover.

 

[Piplup]

Except that Brock and Dawn are BOTH sidekicks more or less. And I'm looking at the Jirachi DVD on my shelf, and Ash, May, Brock, and Max are all on there. So is Jirachi (that movie's "cute Legendary").

I'm talking about the Japanese version... see the link I posted - only Ash and Max are there (and as I said they'll probably change it so Shaymin appear on the cover after they reveal it)

You compare Dawn to Brock in their importance? it's ridiculous... Dawn isn't a sidekick at all
She star together with Ash

The text that appear in the beginning of every opening in the Japanese version always (even during AG when we had May) talked only about Ash
Now after almost 10 years they decided to change it so it's "Ash and Dawn" instead just "Ash"

Dawn is the first character to have a mascot Poké to be the "star Poké" together with Ash's Pikachu (Togepi wasn't anything like that at all... and Croagunk isn't out of ball constantly... Pip is out of ball and unlike Togepi it actually does things and really feel as a mascot... also Piplup is the ONLY Pokémon that is listed with the main characters except Pikachu/Meowth, Togepi wasn't listed as main)

The CD/DVD covers, posters and other official merchandise also support this (as well as the fact the current OP is a duet of Ash and Dawn)

Dawn was also important enough to get the first episode totally to herself while Ash appear only for the last 2 minutes (compare that to the first AG episode... it begin with May and after a few seconds we're back to Ash who steal her the focus of the episode)

In movie 10 Ash and Dawn (with Pika and Pachi) do together the "save the day" thing
I didn't watch 11 yet but the DVD cover sure make it look like they'll be equals there too

Pokémon.com also said when season 10 was about to begin that "Ash won't be the only star this time" or something like that than talked about Dawn... (I know it's not a Japanese source but whatever, decide if to count it as a "proof")

In Pokémon.co.jp (official Japanese site) in the anime page you can see a piture of Ash and Dawn with Pika+starters... no Brock

And why do we even need to find these proofs? just watch the show!
No one can even try to say they aren't treated as equals (or almost equals)
They are the two characters who advance the plot (Gyms and Contests), they are the two characters that get the most episodes dedicated to them and that the show focus on

Just like the games added the option to play as a girl - the anime is now doing the same thing and is trying to appeal equally to both boys and girls
That's why Ash is suddenly allowed to have evolved big/cool Poké like Sceptile and the cute little ones go to May/Dawn
That's why Ash is clueless about love and why May/Dawn (especially Dawn) are girly girls
That's why Ash is doing Gyms ("real" battles that focus on power) and May/Dawn are doing Contests (focus on beauty)

I'm not saying boys have to like Ash/Gyms and vice versa (I'm a boy that actually prefer May/Dawn and Contests)
But they obviously go with the typical "boys like big cool monsters that battle" and "girls are girly, like beauty and cute things"...

But May was the first try to make an equal to Ash... they did a lot of mistakes with her and it still seemed like Ash is the more important
That's why I'm not sure how to describe May's role... it felt like she's between sidekick to star

But now with Dawn they fixed all these mitakes (whether you like it or not is another thing, but by making them look equal they did a much better job with Dawn)
Now that they got it right why throw her away? Not to mention I'm sure they know very well a third (and what's than? fourth? fifth?...) girly girl Coordinator in a row will be ridiculous
So why not just let her stay?
Also if they so try to appeal equally to girl... it only seems logical to give us a permament heroine like we have our permament hero

After years of seeing Dawn/Pip together with Ash/Pika on everything (and showcased as equals in the show itself too) I think it'll be at least a little more hard to remove her than it was with May - from the same reasons Ash is still here

And anyway regardless of whether she'll stay or not - at least for DP she's the heroine who star with Ash as equals
So it's really ridiculous to compare her to Brock and say she's just a sidekick

Sorry to anyone who's sick of my posts about this... I really don't want to irritate anyone but I think I should be allowed to say what I think about this especially when others start to talk about it (and again I'm not the only one here who sometimes goes off topic and start his permament discussion)

Two more pictures that I couldn't attach:
http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dvdspecialselectional8.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cdhighfiveashitakittosx0.jpg

 

[Cybersai]

Let's just admit it, Brock's character has waned over the duration of the anime.

I honestly don't even get why Brock was brought back for DP in the first place. I love his DP Pokemon like Croagunk, etc, but I feel nothing for the character himself anymore.

 

[PDL]

Let's just admit it, Brock's character has waned over the duration of the anime.

I honestly don't even get why Brock was brought back for DP in the first place. I love his DP Pokemon like Croagunk, etc, but I feel nothing for the character himself anymore.

You know what I don't care about anymore?

You posting.

SHUT UP!

 

[Cybersai]

Calm down, he's excluded from the DP covers and people are going to notice it. That is all.

 

[PDL]

Calm down, he's excluded from the DP covers and people are going to notice it. That is all.

But do you mind not bringing it up in every goddamn thread you fucking post in?

It's getting as old as Brock's running gag.

 

[LightningKimba]

I'm talking about the Japanese version... see the link I posted - only Ash and Max are there (and as I said they'll probably change it so Shaymin appear on the cover after they reveal it)

You compare Dawn to Brock in their importance? it's ridiculous... Dawn isn't a sidekick at all
She star together with Ash

The text that appear in the beginning of every opening in the Japanese version always (even during AG when we had May) talked only about Ash
Now after almost 10 years they decided to change it so it's "Ash and Dawn" instead just "Ash"

Dawn is the first character to have a mascot Poké to be the "star Poké" together with Ash's Pikachu (Togepi wasn't anything like that at all... and Croagunk isn't out of ball constantly... Pip is out of ball and unlike Togepi it actually does things and really feel as a mascot... also Piplup is the ONLY Pokémon that is listed with the main characters except Pikachu/Meowth, Togepi wasn't listed as main)

The CD/DVD covers, posters and other official merchandise also support this (as well as the fact the current OP is a duet of Ash and Dawn)

Dawn was also important enough to get the first episode totally to herself while Ash appear only for the last 2 minutes (compare that to the first AG episode... it begin with May and after a few seconds we're back to Ash who steal her the focus of the episode)

In movie 10 Ash and Dawn (with Pika and Pachi) do together the "save the day" thing
I didn't watch 11 yet but the DVD cover sure make it look like they'll be equals there too

Pokémon.com also said when season 10 was about to begin that "Ash won't be the only star this time" or something like that than talked about Dawn... (I know it's not a Japanese source but whatever, decide if to count it as a "proof")

In Pokémon.co.jp (official Japanese site) in the anime page you can see a piture of Ash and Dawn with Pika+starters... no Brock

And why do we even need to find these proofs? just watch the show!
No one can even try to say they aren't treated as equals (or almost equals)
They are the two characters who advance the plot (Gyms and Contests), they are the two characters that get the most episodes dedicated to them and that the show focus on

Just like the games added the option to play as a girl - the anime is now doing the same thing and is trying to appeal equally to both boys and girls
That's why Ash is suddenly allowed to have evolved big/cool Poké like Sceptile and the cute little ones go to May/Dawn
That's why Ash is clueless about love and why May/Dawn (especially Dawn) are girly girls
That's why Ash is doing Gyms ("real" battles that focus on power) and May/Dawn are doing Contests (focus on beauty)

I'm not saying boys have to like Ash/Gyms and vice versa (I'm a boy that actually prefer May/Dawn and Contests)
But they obviously go with the typical "boys like big cool monsters that battle" and "girls are girly, like beauty and cute things"...

But May was the first try to make an equal to Ash... they did a lot of mistakes with her and it still seemed like Ash is the more important
That's why I'm not sure how to describe May's role... it felt like she's between sidekick to star

But now with Dawn they fixed all these mitakes (whether you like it or not is another thing, but by making them look equal they did a much better job with Dawn)
Now that they got it right why throw her away? Not to mention I'm sure they know very well a third (and what's than? fourth? fifth?...) girly girl Coordinator in a row will be ridiculous
So why not just let her stay?
Also if they so try to appeal equally to girl... it only seems logical to give us a permament heroine like we have our permament hero

After years of seeing Dawn/Pip together with Ash/Pika on everything (and showcased as equals in the show itself too) I think it'll be at least a little more hard to remove her than it was with May - from the same reasons Ash is still here

And anyway regardless of whether she'll stay or not - at least for DP she's the heroine who star with Ash as equals
So it's really ridiculous to compare her to Brock and say she's just a sidekick

Sorry to anyone who's sick of my posts about this... I really don't want to irritate anyone but I think I should be allowed to say what I think about this especially when others start to talk about it (and again I'm not the only one here who sometimes goes off topic and start his permament discussion)

Two more pictures that I couldn't attach:
http://img45.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dvdspecialselectional8.jpg
http://img148.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cdhighfiveashitakittosx0.jpg

It's just the thing where Dawn travels with Brock, as a traveling partner. Ash is the main protagonist, and he began his journey with Misty and Brock. After the Indigo arc, Brock goes away, and we have Tracey. In Johto, Tracey goes away, and Brock returns. In Advance, both Misty and Brock go away, and May and Max return. Already, Misty appears a lot moreso in the anime than all the other partners. Does that make her a sidekick still. Technically, yes, for she is not main 'protagonist'. So it is fair game to consider Brock and Dawn in the same boat. The thing is, Dawn has a very high popularity, moreso than even May. The reason is, I assume, is because people got over the "You can't trade with 1st/2nd gen to 3rd gen" thing, and think Dawn's amazing, since the majority of the fandom came back to see Dawn. That's just how I see it.

Other than that, Brock's big thing in the anime may be the Uxie meeting thing, where both of them have 'squinty' eyes. I suppose he is getting unpopular in the fandom lately.

 

[PDL]

Can we please stop posting about Brock?

 

[Piplup]

There was no need to quote my long post... Dawn clearly is different than all the other character who traveled with Ash and it's exactly what I explained in the long post you just quoted... did you even read it?

 

[Pikapi]

PDL, you are not a moderator, so why don't you get the hell off your high horse and quit bossing people around already? You did it in the Croagunk episode thread as well, and frankly it's annoying.

People can damn well talk about Brock if they want to. =/

I think Ash and Dawn are pretty much treated as equals at this point. Brock is just the obligatory third person there, but the fact he still gets the occasional filler episode dedicated to him means that the writers haven't completely forgotten about him. It's just that Ash and Dawn's goals are more focused. Do contests and gyms. Brock? Er... show off breeding skills once in a while?

 

[oddball walking]

Its not s if he has much of a role in the film anyway.

Has Shaymin been announced outside of Japan yet? Because I see it as strange that's its not on the poster/cover.

 

[Nekusagi]

Not really. Which may be why PUSA hasn't put her on the cover art yet.

 

[JB88]

*sighs* I was afraid of all this.

All I can say is, when that episode of Ash and Dawn taking care of Pachirisu in Brock's absence stood as a warning sign to me. Especially what Brock said if they ever had to take care of themselves. But then again, these lines may have no meaning as I don't know what the writers are thinking of.

 

[PDL]

PDL, you are not a moderator, so why don't you get the hell off your high horse and quit bossing people around already? You did it in the Croagunk episode thread as well, and frankly it's annoying.

People can damn well talk about Brock if they want to. =/

What is annoying is Scott turning every fucking thread into a "Brock needs to leave" topic. We get it! You hate Brock. No need to bring it up in every thread!

Just fucking stop it.

 

[Cybersai]

I do not hate Brock at all. I notice they leave him off a lot of the DP promotional art, as Piplup has shown.

Come to think of it, Brock is the only one of Ash's friends who never had a major role in a movie, aside from Tracey.

 

[PDL]

That's because he's only a support character. Not a major one like Ash and the female heroine.

I don't know how many times I had to say it.

 

[Cybersai]

Max had a major role in Movie 6, and he's less important than Brock.

 

[PDL]

Max had a major role in Movie 6, and he's less important than Brock.

So what? He's a kid. Kids like that usually get to be a part of something special in movies.

And who really cares if someone's less or more "important". All characters are important if they impact the plot. Regardless of what roles they play.

 

[JB88]

What is annoying is Scott turning every fucking thread into a "Brock needs to leave" topic. We get it! You hate Brock. No need to bring it up in every thread!

That's not true, it just becomes an anti-Johto thread.

Characters really have no meaning anyway. It's all about the Pokemon. Consider this a followup from my last post.

 

[PDL]

That's not true, it just becomes an anti-Johto thread.

Characters really have no meaning anyway. It's all about the Pokemon. Consider this a followup from my last post.

You don't really get it. What I dislike is when someone turns every topic that's even tangently related, to his pet topic, in Scott's case it's either "Brock is useless waste of life and needs to kill himself" or "Johto is a massive shithole that should be nuked from orbit". That is what really annoys the hell out of me.

Why Scott has the compulsive need to do this is beyond me.