My Big Problem with the Pokémon Anime - An Essay and a Rant

[Bloodstained]

Flawless in a moral way, not power-wise.

I was going more for moral, but there's plenty of problems in both categories.

 

[Galactic_V]

Idk, from day one we hear our protagonist wants to become a "Pokemon Master" but we're never told what exactly this is. It's sorta a situation where someone says "I wanna be something", then somebody else questions "What is it?", and the answer he gets is "How the f* should I know? It just sounds cool." That's what I feel with the ambiguous "Master" goal.

In the typical shounen series, if the hero's objective is something inexistent in our world (Hokage, Shaman King, Pirate King, Hunter, etc...), it's explained what said goal is! Imagine we're early in the Naruto series, the main character says his dream is to be Hokage, but no one ever says its meaning! Similar to Pokemon.

"I'll be a Pokemon Master! Pokemon Master... That's what...!"
"What's a Pokemon Master? Why you want to become one?"
"I have no f**** idea. Sounds cool to say it though."

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

Idk, from day one we hear our protagonist wants to become a "Pokemon Master" but we're never told what exactly this is. It's sorta a situation where someone says "I wanna be something", then somebody else questions "What is it?", and the answer he gets is "How the f* should I know? It just sounds cool." That's what I feel with the ambiguous "Master" goal.

Spoiler: Comic adaptation of the last movie

 

[Bloodstained]

Idk, from day one we hear our protagonist wants to become a "Pokemon Master" but we're never told what exactly this is. It's sorta a situation where someone says "I wanna be something", then somebody else questions "What is it?", and the answer he gets is "How the f* should I know? It just sounds cool." That's what I feel with the ambiguous "Master" goal.

In the typical shounen series, if the hero's objective is something inexistent in our world (Hokage, Shaman King, Pirate King, Hunter, etc...), it's explained what said goal is! Imagine we're early in the Naruto series, the main character says his dream is to be Hokage, but no one ever says its meaning! Similar to Pokemon.

"I'll be a Pokemon Master! Pokemon Master... That's what...!"
"What's a Pokemon Master? Why you want to become one?"
"I have no f**** idea. Sounds cool to say it though."

That kind of ambiguity isn't really appropriate for this kind of series, another reason why the Pokémon anime just doesn't work. The games seem to give at least a more clear goal: become the Champion or a challenge champion in Alola's case (still the same basic principle).

 

[_Dog]

I owe this place a long overdue response. I apologize for arriving this late. But know I haven't forgotten about this thread.

* * *

If this anime could be easily replaced, you'd think they would have done it by now, right?

Yeah. And that's what they should've done a long time ago.

Pikachu is the mascot of the franchise. Ash and TR aren't mascots but are highly recogniseable characters for anyone with a passing knowledge of the show. They're so entrenched in the fabric of the show - which is a huge part of Pokemon's franchise, don't forget - that it's not as simple as ripping them out and starting again. Let's also be realistic: they're nearly a 1,000 episodes into a show, they're not about to stop now and start again. There may be off-shoots and spin-offs but the main Pokemon anime will continue as long as people want to watch it.

I would argue that the Pokémon franchise actually doesn't need the anime, or at the very least doesn't need Ash; Pikachu is the sole face of the franchise, and he appears in just about everything Pokémon related. If the anime (or at least Ash) were removed Pokémon can still thrive just fine; if anything it's the other way around as the anime is completely dependent on the franchise as a whole; the anime is only still around simply because Pokémon is that big of a franchise; it's huge enough that the anime can continue to run if it can get a few more sales of the current Gen Pokémon games, even if the anime itself is low quality only aimed at Japanese children. I believe it'll help my point if Yokai Watch gets cancelled in the future, since both shows are struggling in ratings at this time (which you ignore are getting lower and lower; staying the course with the status quo certainly isn't going to help matters), yet Pokémon S/M is outselling Yokai Watch 3 by a lot.

Misty and Brock were also "highly recogniseable characters with a passing knowledge of the show", and yet it didn't prevent them from getting written out. They dug themselves into an endless hole simply because they refuse to get rid of Ash; they had a HUGE opportunity with the match against Alain, and they blew it so hard. They could very well have written out Ash and Team Rocket without any problems. They could've very well bring in a new protagonist in place of Ash and the Pokémon anime still would've done just as well (or badly) or possibly even better than how it's doing now. They can (and should, I'll add) get rid of them right now and the franchise won't really suffer anything if those funds can be used to advertize elsewhere or make another Pokémon anime. The truth is, the Pokémon franchise doesn't need Ash or Team Rocket; the manga doesn't need them, the cards don't need them, the games certainly don't need them, the upcoming Detective Pikachu movie doesn't need them, Origins and Generations didn't need them and plenty of other merchandise doesn't need them. Ash might be recognizable, but he's not needed for the franchise as a whole.

Like it or not, rightfully or wrongly, etc. they've ended up in this position that comes with constraints and must work within those constraints. For every new season the show got, it moved further and further away from something artistic - a story to be told and finished - to something purely commercial. When it's commercial, it plays by a different set of rules.

And being a commercial is no justification for making a show very crappy. I've said this already. Unlike what some people think, being a commercial and being artistic are not mutually exclusive--there are plenty of works out there that are good and at the same time advertize a product--Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is an example of a show I enjoyed while at the same time advertizing some merchandise. The Marvel Cinematic Universe movies make tons of money for the executives but also generally get positive reviews; in general both the consumers and the producers win in such a case.

A show can be both artistic and a commercial at the same time. The Pokémon anime staff are stupid to make their show only the latter, and people rightfully need to call them out on it.

I wasn't justifying anything. I was merely explaining their position.

You're content with where the show is going, which made me believe that you're justifying the poor direction of the anime. Regardless of whether you're justifying or explaining their position it is still no excuse for an awful anime.

You and many others underestimate the importance of having an ending for a story. They could come up with any number of ways to continue their story but at what point do you stop developing and progress things towards a climax? You only know that if you know when the ending will be and how it will end.

We all come up with these ideas but they all face this issue. Great, let's have Ash win a league and put him in the Champions League. After that, he becomes a mentor for someone. After that, he's doing whatever. And it goes on and on until somebody says stop. What you have, in the end, is something just as circuitous as what we already have, only with the added pressure of having to come up with new things every time. The current writing staff have neither the competence nor the will to do that. What I tried to explain was how their current method, whether you believe it's a cop out or not, makes their job easier.

So take the lazy route, then. Is that what you're telling us? Are you telling me that they shouldn't come up with new things to make the show more exciting? Are you telling me that they shouldn't write a story about Ash trying to become a Pokémon Master? Are you telling me that he can't have a time skip where he becomes a mentor for another trainer? Are you saying Ash can't grow up, get married, and have his child take his place as the next trainer to follow? Are you stating that Ash shouldn't ever reach his goals? Why? Why is none of this allowed to happen? Why can't the anime actually make some real progress towards its premise?

For crying out loud, Goku of Dragon Ball fares so much better as a written character because he is not restricted by your silly conjecture. To put things shortly, Goku started out as a little boy who simply wanders around and does his chores. He meets Bulma and both agree to find the Dragon Balls. He meets other friends like Krillin and Master Roshi. Then comes the Martial Arts Tournament. Goku loses on his first attempt, but tries again. He loses a second time. But with training and other important experiences, Goku finally overcomes the tournament and comes out as champion. And yet he continues to train in hopes of getting stronger. And while he's at it, he gets a wife and son. And new threats come. And Goku and friends train to overcome them. And so forth, and so forth. And no major character gets written out too.

The Pokémon anime would be much better if it took a path of something like that. There is nothing wrong with taking the path you've described. So yes, let Ash win a league already. Let him enter the Champions League. Let him win that too. Let him mentor someone. Let him do whatever. And let someone succeed him in the spirit of traveling and battling with Pokémon. Surely the writers are more capable than turning the main protagonist into a jobber schoolboy after 20 years worth of episodes. At least I hope so.

Imagine you've been asked to construct a tower. You're not told how big the tower will be or how much material you'll need to build it. You've just been told to keep building and building. How do you go about building that tower?

Then imagine the same situation, but you know the tower has to be 10 feet tall and know how much it'll take to build it.

Pokemon is working within that first scenario; several other shows people keep bringing up work within the second. Which do you think is the easiest environment to work in?

The government (or whatever organization involved) would scorn the idea of beginning a building project without an end in mind. No credible organization would approve of and greenlight such a thoughtless and unfinished plan. Such a project is guaranteed for disaster and all it would do is lose money to anyone invested in the tower.

You know what resulted in Pokémon taking an approach like that? A terrible show with no goal, no vision, no integrity, no heart and no soul. Instead, stupidity is what dictates that show.

They don't give you a reason to watch because they don't care about you or any other long-term viewer of the show. They don't care because they never made the show with the intention that people would follow the thing for almost 20 years. They made it for people to watch for three or four years then move on when it shifts focus back to a newer audience.

If that's what they wanted to do then they should've gotten rid of Ash a long time ago, and replace the anime with a new series. That's what happened with Digimon, Yu-Gi-Oh, Beyblade, Pretty Cure, Aikatsu and even Naruto and Love Live; no reason why the Pokémon staff is so insistent on keeping Ash and his now futile quest to become a Pokémon Master. There is no reason to keep Ash if they don't intend for their audience to continue watching his show (which is a pretty stupid thing to do I'll add). This ridiculous mentality has resulted in Ash failing as a protagonist thanks to him never being able to win anything and the resets that he and Pikachu get on occasion. How did they forget that they're also supposed to make a show good?

I say it's time you and many others understand that you chose to follow a show that's a) poorly written and b) not going to reward you the way you want it to. You're reason for watching and their reason for creating are not in line with each other and haven't been for a long time.

And that's bad. We have every right to call out the anime staff for their failure to live up to the anime's premise.

It's as I said earlier, this show wasn't made for you, me, or anyone to watch for 20 years hoping it reaches a conclusion. That'd be absolute madness. We CHOSE to follow the show for that length of time, ignoring the signs that, actually, it might not be for us anymore and we aren't going to get what we want. Pokemon never changed and never gave us an indication it was aiming to reach some form of conclusion.

So I really, really cannot relate with your position. If I'm justifying anything, it isn't bad writing - I've said numerous times the show is poorly written - but why the show is what it is and why they decided to make it that way. That under these particular conditions a lot of the criticisms people throw at it - it fails to fulfill its premise, it fails to develop characters, etc. - aren't valid.

Circumstances cannot be used as an excuse for why it became what it is. What you're doing here is nothing but damage control, and is tantamount to defending a crappy restaurant because the bosses forced the chef to cook a certain way, resulting in the food becoming rotten and disgusting trash. It doesn't prevent the restaurant from being crappy trash. Which is what the Pokémon anime has become like.

If you make an anime about Ash's story to become a Pokémon Master and have no plans to actually get there in the story, then yes, that is a valid criticism and the staff deserves to get called out on their BS. Being made for kids is not and should never be an excuse for a lousy product, and if they truly have no plans to conclude Ash's story, then they need to say that outright and also to stop putting things in there to make their audience think otherwise. The XY anime is the biggest offender of that. There's good reason why the anime is criticized by many, many people: it has failed to convey a proper story.

* * *

In short Ash is a replicant and Deckhard is gonna hunt him down. Misty is obviously a replicant too and Gary Oak is a BR.

This is basically what I got from all this.

Honestly it is a show for kids that advertises the games. Expecting a lot from it does seem a little bit much

Again, that's no excuse for a bad show. My expectations for the anime was never very high to begin with, and yet the anime still can't even live up to such a low level. Some expectation is important when viewing an anime or reviewing any form of media, but the Pokémon anime cannot measure to anything but the rock bottom of expectations: Ash loses his progress by the end of the saga whereas everyone gets written out except for him, Pikachu and Team Rocket (the Permanent 5). No achievements are made towards the main premise of becoming a Pokémon Master, and any plot that involves characters other than the Permanent 5 are abandoned indefinitely. This expectation is incompatible with the main premise of the entire anime. You'll have to forgive us for wanting something better than that in a goal-oriented story.

But I ask you: do you honestly think the Sun and Moon anime will be any different from that? Can you really say that it'll live up to anything other than the rock bottom of expectations, which results in Ash not becoming a Pokémon Master? I say NO. I would eat my Pokémon Y cartridge if I end up being wrong, but I'm not the kind of guy who makes a wager like that unless there's something to gain if I win. Without an expectation of Ash becoming a Pokémon Master or even making any steps towards it, I (or anyone else with a similar expectation) have no reason to ever watch or invest in the anime ever again. And I don't.

* * *

That poll was taken in mid October 2015, when Serena's popularity was at its peak as XYZ had started. Also the poll is a bit...... strange to say the least.No one except die-hard fans of Serena took to the poll and cast their votes, so I doubt the veracity of that poll, even if it is on Anime News Network. I was talking about now.
I also like Serena, but I just wish Amourshippers realise that just like Anabel and countless others, Ash will just keep on moving forward. Serena simply will not stand the test of time.... no other Pokegirl has(except in their fans' eyes)!
Additionally, the show is a show for kids. Kids watch to enjoy Ash's adventures and I don't think that they really care about the concept of "being" a Pokemon master. Expecting a show to conform to what you want is not right. Instead of ranting here, though, you can send a letter to the developers. I'm probably being naive, but with the backlash in Japan, they might be open to ideas.

We'll see whether or not Serena will stand the test of time or not. The popularity poll shouldn't be dismissed however, as again that poll included characters from iconic shows like One Piece and Sailor Moon, as well as fan favorites from shows like Love Live. Shadao also told me that Serena was ranked the number 1 girl at the April 1st Special that aired in Japan. In addition there existed a petition for Serena to come back to the anime, which has had about 30,000 signatures. The anime staff doesn't care for them, but the petition was notable enough to the point where a few articles were written about it. And the interview after the end of XY&Z? 100% damage control. The director had to come up with some shoddy insight about Serena getting written out of the anime, even though they have no plans to actually make Amourshipping happen since they intend to run the anime forever with only the Permanent 5 staying on it. They knew they were removing a popular character from the audience, and they don't give a damn. Clearly a demand for Serena exists.

But I digress. However, before I move on, I think there's something everybody, both me and you, and both Amourshipper and critic, can all agree on: If there was no intention to put Ash and Serena in a romantic relationship, then they should have never brought up the idea in the show to begin with. Do not give the main character a romantic love interest if you're not going to take the big leap and carry it out. Can we all agree on that? I hope so.

Finally, and I can't stress this enough, the anime being a show for kids does not excuse it from being crap. I'm certain that there were kids who were just as pissed as the older audience when they saw Ash lose that Kalos League Final. Back when I was young I wasn't pleased to see Ash lose to Ritchie. My brothers still look back at that moment with displeasure. Many of these kids aren't stupid, they too want to see Ash make progress and become a Pokémon Master. And even if they aren't like that now, I assure you that many of them will become dissatisfied in the future, as Ash is not allowed to go anywhere with the premise.

* * *

Pokémon Master - Bulbapedia, the community-driven Pokémon encyclopedia

It's painfully clear they will never say what one is or how to do it. I can understand your point for younger viewers, they might get confused. But you're not an 8 year old. This saying applies:

Translation: "We can't come up with a precise answer and so we're just gonna cop out and say you guys go find out on your own. By the way, that's impossible."

Yeah, like that's gonna satisfy anyone. I don't think the anime staff is even aware of the statement, so I don't see how they can use this as an excuse to have Ash continue as a failure in his journey.

In any case you haven't provided any convincing argument against my paragraph. If they provide a premise on Ash's quest to become a Pokémon Master, then it's their job to work on that. It's not hard to understand.

Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

See above.

Except, as Daren stated (though this was posted after your reply):

When you factor in...
*They always spoiled [Ash's losses] in the past.
*Ads in magazines talking about how he might win.
*Characters talking about how he might win.
*Alain beats him twice before the league, which is typically used in most shows to set the rival up to be defeated in the main event.

There was more than just "They didn't spoil the conclusion".

As cliché as it sounds, it really boils down to "But this time it was different." Hindsight is 20/20 after all, and people had grounds to believe that the staff wasn't going to let the audience down. It's a shame they did.

Again the animators are adults so to be blunt, who cares what they think? They got paid to draw the scenes whether he won or not.

I care. So do many of the viewers who were angry at the Kalos League loss. It signifies that those animators too felt Ash losing the league was a bad decision for the anime. Being paid doesn't make their opinions invalid; there're plenty of people who get paid in their jobs yet disagree with the higher authorities. Sometimes the case gets intense to the point where they may even quit their jobs (And if I were any of these animators I'd quit the job due to the stupidity of the executives).

Actually, having a continual audience means that they expect bigger and better things. With a constantly changing audience they don't have to appeal to older fans with a lot more demands.

And "bigger and better things" is what shows like Dragon Ball, Naruto and One Piece have done. They're better received by audiences as a result. Wouldn't it be better to attract new audiences while retaining your current one at the same time?

If the Pokémon anime has no intention of maintaining their audience (which is stupid, I'll add), then they should replace Ash with a new protagonist. Heck, I'd argue they would have more audience that way while bringing in new audiences then they do by keeping Ash in his repetitive cycle of failure. If they're so willing to toss everyone else out of the anime without hesitation, why not do the same for the protagonist, which should've been removed a long time ago?

But basically the problem comes down to the fact that they don't have to change anything. People still watch the show and more importantly it gets people to buy the games. Sun and Moon are a success. As long as the games make huge amounts of money, then the animé doesn't need to change because its done its job.

Oh no, it won't last much longer, not with the declining ratings. I can assure you that the show would be more popular and garner even better sales if it was actually good. Instead, many people view the anime under a unfavorable light, and the anime suffers a good amount of negative word-of-mouth.

Nothing tells you that you're still a 10 year old at the end of those games.

You can beat Pokémon in a couple of hours. In real time, no less!

Hence why I used the word "realistically".

Oh I see now. Well I'll have to tell ya this: the Pokémon anime isn't realistic in the slightest. Especially with what's been done to Ash. Nice goalpost moving, by the way.

I'm sorry, but you have not provided any defenses, just lousy excuses. I want none of that.

* * *

To be fair, they were foreshadowing Team Flare as early as the first Mega Evolution special. It did take them forever to appear in the series proper, but they didn't suddenly appear out of nowhere, which worked better than at least some of the other evil teams. I agree that they were pretty weak in the games though. I'd say that the Team Flare arc was distinct enough from the other evil team climax, but using the League to buildup to that arc does kind of bother me the more I think about it. It was still a good arc, but that's not what the entire series had been building up to. Ash's Kalos journey was all about traveling through the region to get to the Kalos League, not to defeat Team Flare. Ash and his friends only encountered Team Flare twice during their journey and didn't learn who they were until they attacked Lumiose. If they wanted to make a Team Flare arc feel more like a natural climax to Ash's Kalos journey, then they really should have started to appear sooner than they did, or at least had more confrontations with Ash. A Team Galactic arc back in DP would have felt more natural by comparison because of how prominent they were throughout most of the series.

Too bad everything involving Team Flare turned out to be filler. No one needs to watch that now since the writers thought it was a good idea to have Ash become a schoolboy instead of building the plot further from there. After all that buildup, what does Lysandre, or Malva, or Team Flare as a whole have to do with the Pokémon anime now? Nothing. They had no relevance to the overall plot, making them a complete filler arc. That's the harsh reality when it comes to the Pokémon anime--no event or arc will ever matter in the long run, essentially making them filler. It's what happened with XY, and I predict the same thing will happen with SM.

I thought that the ratings were doing fine for SM. I've heard that it still gets to the Top 10 rated shows every week, but I could be mistaken. Regardless, low ratings wouldn't be enough to really hurt the show, especially when ratings are an extremely outdated means of gauging how many people are watching a show. The show exist in order to promote the games and merchandise. As long as the games keep selling like hotcakes, they'll continue the show. They might have lost some money, but since it most likely wasn't a huge amount, fans giving up on the show because of the Kalos League probably won't have any long lasting affects on the show.

The huge backlash against the Kalos League final shouldn't really be ignored. People, both kids and adults, really wanted something extraordinary to come out of the buildup. By changing the direction of the anime in making Ash a schoolboy at Alola with a change in cast and art style, showing zero intention of doing anything with the premise by making Ash have any sort of progress in becoming a Pokémon Master, you drive the audience who watch the show in hopes of seeing that away. (I reckon the the show has also driven away Amourshippers as well, whose numbers were not a few.) I recall a poll at Serebii before that dreaded episode where a majority genuinely thought Ash was going to win the Kalos League, due to various factors that pointed to that direction (even Team Rocket commented that Ash might finally win, but alas, hindsight is 20/20). Now we have my polls where people think we're going to pass away as a generation before seeing Ash ever win one of these leagues. Some polls have been as bad as 90/10 in favor of us dying first. Do you wanna see plot progression and Ash winning a league and/or becoming a Pokémon Master? They're not gonna do it. They have no intention of doing it. It's not in their plans. Do you really think Ash is going to get anything from the Sun and Moon anime? I really feel the anime as a whole has now reached rock bottom status in terms of quality and reputation because of this.

As Daren states, Sun and Moon has failed to reverse the trend of the show becoming less and less popular. I reckon it is less popular than ever, with complaints increasing more and more concerning its direction. Merchandise sales have also declined last time I've checked. I wouldn't be surprised if the show itself has lost money, but is nonetheless compensated by the high sales of the games. But I think it can do better than that. The anime is not in a desired status by the majority of past and present viewers. If the staff decided to try and not have Pokémon run the way it is now by removing Ash or making him make some actual progress towards the premise (like having him win the Kalos League), then I believe the anime would be viewed as people view the likes of Dragon Ball and Naruto right now (that is, far more favorable albeit not without its share of critics).

I'm not so sure about that. I don't know how children feel about Ash, but most of the negative light around him that I've seen are from people who are well outside of the target demographic. Ash and Pikachu are pretty much a packaged set and he's been the lead for twenty years. He's far too recognizable and iconic, at least as far as the anime is concerned, for them to consider replacing him now and that ship sailed ages ago anyway.

Look above for my response to that kind of thing. Pikachu is the mascot of Pokémon, not Ash. The Pokémon franchise can thrive without him. The games don't need Ash, the spin-offs don't need Ash, the manga doesn't need Ash, the cards don't need Ash, Origins and Generations didn't need him, the Detective Pikachu movie won't need him, the toys and merchandise don't need him either. Pikachu is the face of all those mediums. I really see no disadvantage in replacing Ash. Further, I'd argue it can only help the anime if he were removed. Keeping Ash has been the greatest detriment to the show, and has resulted in the show receiving negative reception and word-of-mouth, which can easily spread to children. It has also made Ash a phenomenal failure at what he was set out to do from episode one. You should remember that Pokémon fans, and Nintendo fans in general, have grown up and as a result the demographics have increased in age. If the anime staff are so decisive to remove everyone else from the anime, they can do the same with Ash (and Team Rocket) as well. I'm certain the Pokémon franchise won't suffer if they do that.

The only thing I think of when I see the results is that people really preferred the melodramatic option. Seriously, who cares if Ash never becomes a Pokemon Master? It is not the end of the world if they just keep the show they way it is. If it bothers people that much, then they're just getting way too focus on a show aimed at children.

Excuse me... *ahem* It's the main premise of the entire anime! Plenty of people care! Becoming a Pokémon Master is the reason why Ash started his whole journey in the first place. It's right in the first episode: "I am Ash . . . I will journey to gain the wisdom of Pokémon training, and I hereby declare to the Pokémon of the world, I will be a Pokémon master." It's right there. This isn't something we've made up. The anime was supposed to work with that proposition. You'll have to forgive us for wanting to see this goal fulfilled, to see Ash to reach his dreams, and not end up as a jobber schoolboy after 20 years worth of episodes. Why do you think so many Pokémon fans have dropped the anime? Because it was going absolutely nowhere. There was a reason why the Kalos League was so hyped up. There was a reason why people regained genuine interest in the anime when that was running. The whole cycle of failure looked like it was going to end. A long-deserved league win was something that people have wanted to see for years. The premise of the anime, or at least a major accomplishment required for it, looked like it was finally going to be fulfilled after five league losses and twenty years worth of episodes. And yet they blew it.

Now, 2/3rds of voters in the poll think that none of us is going to live to see the end of Ash's journey. Don't you think this is a valid concern in respect to the overall direction of the anime? Yeah, some people might have voted the latter option but simply moved on due to indifference to the anime, but nonetheless something like that should never happen. And now it seems like the anime staff's intention is for that to become a reality. And yet you tell us "who cares if Ash never becomes a Pokémon Master?" People like you are part of the the Big Problem! Tell me, are you really satisfied going another 20 years of the same repetitive cycle of Ash battling and losing leagues and blasting off Team Rocket and helping out one-shot characters that he'll never see again? Are you really happy with discussing on episodes, characters, arcs and Pokémon that will end up as filler by the time the saga ends? Do people like you really like it when characters get removed from the anime and are treated as if they never existed to begin with?

Is this really okay? Why can't we actually do something different from an endless cycle of failure and a jobber schoolboy protagonist that we have after six consecutive losses in the leagues he's trying to win? Is it for the kids? I don't think any kid wanted the Pokémon anime to end up the way it did. In fact, I'd argue the Pokémon franchise would be benefitted as a whole if they did something other than the typical status quo of Ash doing things and getting nothing accomplished in the long-term. Further, your 20-minute gratification isn't going to be removed if they decided to make a competent Pokémon anime or give the current one a better direction. I'm sure of it.

And finally, I cannot stress this enough: being aimed at children is not an excuse for a bad product. This has never been a valid defense for the Pokémon anime, and never will. Please stop bringing that up. In fact, I think the Pokémon anime gives a bad message to viewers, as it promotes the idea that losses, repeated losses at that, are just something to accept (as opposed to accepting but then growing from them so it doesn't happen again) and that "there's nothing wrong with being complacent every time they fail at their goal and that there's no shame with regressing and trying to get back to where they were", to quote a user from another forum. This reviewer gives some good insights on why the "it's for kids" argument isn't valid. It's a negative review for Teen Titans Go, but the response nonetheless applies very well to Pokémon (I recommend watching it all, but you can view just 5:29 to 6:12):

View: https://youtu.be/oiNsIqbMDfY?t=5m29s


So yeah, while it might not be the end of the the world, I still want something done about the Big Problem of the Pokémon anime. I make it no secret: I hate the Pokémon anime. I hate it, hate it, hate it, hate it, hate it. Hate that show with all my heart and mind and with every fiber of my being. I'm not afraid to hide that. But the truth is that I don't want to hate the Pokémon anime. The anime doesn't need to be the way it is right now. And I say it once again, the Pokémon fandom deserves a better show, not this embarrassing excuse of an adaptation of one of Nintendo's most beloved franchises. To quote a recent book from a psychiatrist, "If love can hurt, as we all know it can, hate can heal." So I won't do nothing about it, and don't tell me otherwise, because I'll just say "no".

I will return shortly, and trust me, it won't take nearly as long as last time.

 

[Bloodstained]

Hating something without wanting to feels truly awful. I can relate to that for several things in my life. The Pokémon anime varies with this, since it was a big part of my childhood, as was the franchise as a whole, though it's hard to look back on it given its glaring flaws.

One other thing I need to mention: when you don't have an end goal in mind when you create something, especially when it requires one, that's just bad. Getting to the end is hard, but if you don't know where you're going or don't want to get there, what's the point?

 

[Yankees4life]

One other thing I need to mention: when you don't have an end goal in mind when you create something, especially when it requires one, that's just bad. Getting to the end os hard, but if you don't know where you're going or don't want to get there, what's the point?

$$$$

 

[_Dog]

Didn't expect this to be bumped. I still have more to say, hopefully I do that soon.

 

[KenzeyEevee]

They are experimenting with the anime itself. But I just think that it doesnt fit to go from a serious Ash to a childish Ash. Not that I hate SM but if pokémon worrying that it gets old, it doesnt. But pokémon cant stand on humor alone like they want to keep up with Yo-Kai-Watch (which I dont like tbh).

 

[_Dog]

They are experimenting with the anime itself. But I just think that it doesnt fit to go from a serious Ash to a childish Ash. Not that I hate SM but if pokémon worrying that it gets old, it doesnt. But pokémon cant stand on humor alone like they want to keep up with Yo-Kai-Watch (which I dont like tbh).

I'm going to spoil you the ending right now: Ash fails to become a Pokémon Master, and everyone else barring Pikachu and Team Rocket are permanently removed from the anime. It's old, it's boring, and I want it gone.

If they really wanted to experiment, then they should've removed Ash from the anime and bring forth a new protagonist. If they're trying to experiment, then they've failed even at that.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Just because you don't like the anime, how it's handled or the direction it is in doesn't mean it should be gone. You're completely entitled to disliking the anime, but it shouldn't be gone just because of your own feelings about it. There are plenty of popular anime series that I hate and I wouldn't mind seeing them disappear, but I'm not going to demand for people to stop watching those series just because of my own personal feelings. I just ignore the shows and watch/do something else. Much like the Pokemon anime, those series aren't made to specifically cater to me, but to a large and/or different demographic. Demanding for a show to be cancelled simply because of my own personal subjective feelings would be rather selfish and ignore how other people do enjoy those shows too.

It's honestly really not hard to just not watch the Pokemon anime if you don't like it. It's extremely common for people to take breaks from the anime, if not drop it altogether, for various reasons, so it's not like you have to watch through the anime if you're really unhappy with the final product.

 

[marshiyanmisuta]

I'm going to spoil you the ending right now: Ash fails to become a Pokémon Master, and everyone else barring Pikachu and Team Rocket are permanently removed from the anime. It's old, it's boring, and I want it gone.

If they really wanted to experiment, then they should've removed Ash from the anime and bring forth a new protagonist. If they're trying to experiment, then they've failed even at that.

So, after every reason and problem you and others listed about the current status of this show... your solution is removing Satoshi? Seems like just an excuse to rid of him.

 

[Bloodstained]

$$$$

Do I have to go into how big a problem that is?

 

[KenzeyEevee]

Do I have to go into how big a problem that is?

Making something just for the money is sad. Passion is something important

 

[Bloodstained]

Making something just for the money is sad. Passion is something important

Truth be told, I get why people need the money, but that can never be the only reason or the most important reason.

 

[Hidden Mew]

Considering that the anime only exist because of the video games and has always been used to promote the games, I can't really get upset at the notion that it keeps on going in order to generate more money. That's basically why any toyetic series has been made, so it's not a new development.

 

[EscLucy]

Considering that the anime only exist because of the video games and has always been used to promote the games, I can't really get upset at the notion that it keeps on going in order to generate more money. That's basically why any toyetic series has been made, so it's not a new development.

Throughout the anime, we can see that plot lines are created to show off a certain region or Pokemon to the point where it becomes predictable and robotic. The writers have gotten much better with plot lines but the anime will always be, as HM said, a marketing tool which helps to boost video game sales.

 

[_Dog]

Just because you don't like the anime, how it's handled or the direction it is in doesn't mean it should be gone. You're completely entitled to disliking the anime, but it shouldn't be gone just because of your own feelings about it. There are plenty of popular anime series that I hate and I wouldn't mind seeing them disappear, but I'm not going to demand for people to stop watching those series just because of my own personal feelings. I just ignore the shows and watch/do something else. Much like the Pokemon anime, those series aren't made to specifically cater to me, but to a large and/or different demographic. Demanding for a show to be cancelled simply because of my own personal subjective feelings would be rather selfish and ignore how other people do enjoy those shows too.

I was specifically referring to the predictable nature of the Pokémon anime: "Ash fails to become a Pokémon Master, and everyone else barring Pikachu and Team Rocket are permanently removed from the anime. It's old, it's boring, and I want it gone." It is that I want gone, the thing I refer to as the Big Problem, not the anime as a whole. And I'm going to do anything and everything I can to try to make that happen, or at the very least receive answers to why the Pokémon anime took the direction it did. All I want is the truth.

The anime is now at a point where it can be no worse than it is; just about anything would be a step in the right direction. Have Ash win a Pokémon League for once. Or better yet, retcon the Sun and Moon anime in its entirety and rewrite XY&Z with Ash winning the Kalos League and build from there. Or if certain people really don't want him to win, then have Ash give up on his goal and turn the show into an actual slice-of-life anime or some other genre, without having to see our protagonist fail over and over again. Or have him be killed or otherwise removed and then replaced with a new protagonist. Any of these and other options would be a solution to the Big Problem. Some are better than others, but all of them would at the very least deal with the premise of some sort instead of the anime staff deceiving the audience of thinking Ash is getting somewhere with his goal when in reality he isn't and that the staff have no intention of doing anything about it and instead return him back to square one once a new regional saga begins.

And yes, and that means I'm okay with the show being removed and cancelled altogether. I would praise such an event. You may think of it as rather selfish of me, but I think of such an event as relieving people, both audience and staff, of a bad anime that is not true to itself, a show with no heart, no soul, no integrity and no vision, run by stupid people that make stupid decisions and results in a stupid, poorly-written and shoddy piece of work. They can now use that time to go watch or do something else.

It's honestly really not hard to just not watch the Pokemon anime if you don't like it. It's extremely common for people to take breaks from the anime, if not drop it altogether, for various reasons, so it's not like you have to watch through the anime if you're really unhappy with the final product.

I do not watch the anime. I have not watched it since that dreadful ending of XY&Z was aired. I do not believe I will watch the anime again, nor can I say I can enjoy it ever again. But I will continue to criticize it as long as the Big Problem exists. I will continue to share my essay, bring forth my arguments, counter against the arguments of those who defend the anime, dissuade people from watching the anime and have it be given the lowest possible ratings, and hope for change. I will do this until the matter is resolved or until the day I pass away. Do not stop me.

So, after every reason and problem you and others listed about the current status of this show... your solution is removing Satoshi? Seems like just an excuse to rid of him.

That would be a step in the right direction, but then again, just about anything would be. Keeping Ash and having him fail over and over again, especially if it's done in a way that defies logic and common sense up to eleven, has been an enormous detriment to the quality and overall reception of the anime. Getting rid of him would be good, whether he reaches his goal or otherwise (I would prefer that he win, but the idiotic writers are determined to run the anime to the ground instead).

I have more to say later. Stay tuned.

 

[Rath]

It doesn't matter. The audience gets replaced every generation anyway.

 

[Hidden Mew]

I was specifically referring to the predictable nature of the Pokémon anime: "Ash fails to become a Pokémon Master, and everyone else barring Pikachu and Team Rocket are permanently removed from the anime. It's old, it's boring, and I want it gone." It is that I want gone, the thing I refer to as the Big Problem, not the anime as a whole. And I'm going to do anything and everything I can to try to make that happen, or at the very least receive answers to why the Pokémon anime took the direction it did. All I want is the truth.

Considering that the show has been doing this for over twenty years and literally over a thousand episodes, I don't think one random person on the Internet is going to change how the anime works. As to why the anime went into this direction, it most likely had to do with money. As much as a lot of older fans don't like it, Ash sticking around makes sense from a marketing perspective and having him lose all the time provides more justification for him to keep traveling to other regions.

The anime is now at a point where it can be no worse than it is; just about anything would be a step in the right direction. Have Ash win a Pokémon League for once. Or better yet, retcon the Sun and Moon anime in its entirety and rewrite XY&Z with Ash winning the Kalos League and build from there. Or if certain people really don't want him to win, then have Ash give up on his goal and turn the show into an actual slice-of-life anime or some other genre, without having to see our protagonist fail over and over again. Or have him be killed or otherwise removed and then replaced with a new protagonist. Any of these and other options would be a solution to the Big Problem. Some are better than others, but all of them would at the very least deal with the premise of some sort instead of the anime staff deceiving the audience of thinking Ash is getting somewhere with his goal when in reality he isn't and that the staff have no intention of doing anything about it and instead return him back to square one once a new regional saga begins.

Having Ash killed off would be unnecessarily dark and really wouldn't fit with the tone of the series. Not to mention we are well past the point where Ash could reasonably be replaced or written off the series. Part of the reason why I can't find the whole Ash not being able to make further progression in his goal so upsetting is because it isn't a new development. That has clearly been the case since at least AG. They always have the main characters going off to keep working on their goals rather than reaching them. That was the case even with the end of the original series. Ash losing the Kalos League doesn't change anything in that regard.

And yes, and that means I'm okay with the show being removed and cancelled altogether. I would praise such an event. You may think of it as rather selfish of me, but I think of such an event as relieving people, both audience and staff, of a bad anime that is not true to itself, a show with no heart, no soul, no integrity and no vision, run by stupid people that make stupid decisions and results in a stupid, poorly-written and shoddy piece of work. They can now use that time to go watch or do something else.

I do not watch the anime. I have not watched it since that dreadful ending of XY&Z was aired. I do not believe I will watch the anime again, nor can I say I can enjoy it ever again. But I will continue to criticize it as long as the Big Problem exists. I will continue to share my essay, bring forth my arguments, counter against the arguments of those who defend the anime, dissuade people from watching the anime and have it be given the lowest possible ratings, and hope for change. I will do this until the matter is resolved or until the day I pass away. Do not stop me.

This is part of your so-called essays that I really don't care for. It's fine if you don't like the anime, but belittling others who do still enjoy it and making your self-imposed mission much more noble than it actually is bothers me a lot. Your claim could just be easily applied to you as well. Instead of spending time belittling others for still liking/watching the anime and demanding for change from a show that isn't made to appeal to you, you could just as easily use that time to do something far more productive. You can't force people to change their minds, especially on something subjective like the show. The more you try, the more people aren't going to respond well. It doesn't help that you already are convinced that you're completely right while everyone who still likes the anime is wrong. That doesn't create a good atmosphere for discussion when you treat the fans and creative staff as people who need to be free from the show. That kind of attitude/mentality comes off as pretty rude and condescending.

The audience and staff members aren't chained to the anime like prisoners. People choose to watch the show and like I mentioned before, it is extremely common for people to lose interest for various reasons. I watch the show not because I feel forced to, but because I still enjoy watching Pokemon every week. Despite your many issues with it, I still think it is fun. And I highly doubt that the creative team are chained the show either. If they don't want to work on the show, I imagine that they can move onto different projects relatively easily, depending on how long they've been working on Pokemon. Regardless of how you feel about the anime's quality, working on a big long running series like Pokemon would look good on a job application. No one needs to be freed from watching/working from Pokemon. If anyone chooses to not watch the show anymore, it's ultimately going to be up to them, not you or anyone else, to decide that.