Need some help with my VGC doubles team

[BigBadBatter]

Hi guys. I'm in the process of developing a rain team, and there are some spots that I don't know what to use some pokemon for. Here's the team members.

Heliolisk

Spoiler

Heliolisk
@Life orb
Modest Nature (+SpAtk,-Atk)
252 SpAtk
252 Speed
4 HP
Dry Skin

-Thunder
-Grass Knot
-Volt Switch
-Surf

I've tested this one and it's a monster! This one doesn't need improvements, just putting it here for synergy understanding.

Vaporeon

Spoiler

Vaporeon
@Rocky Helmet
Modest Nature
Water Absorb
252 SpAtk
100 Def
52 SpDef
100 Speed

-Surf
-Ice Beam
-Shadow Ball
-Yawn

Tested but I'm unsure. It works AMAZING with Heliolisk but it's real slow...The helmet helps with damage output though

Goodra

Spoiler

Goodra
@Leftovers
Modest Nature
252 SpAtk
100 Def
52 SpDef
100 HP
4 Speed
Gooey

-Counter
-Surf
-Dragon Pulse
-Flamethrower

Untested and unsure. Has some coverage that the team needs, but I dunno how good it'll do.

Meowstic (M)

Spoiler

Meowstic (M)
@Damp Rock
Modest Nature
252 HP
100 Def
100 SpDef
56 Speed
Prankster

-Psychic
-Charm
-Reflect
-Rain Dance

This one works GREAT. But unsure whether to use this or Klefki

Rotom-W

Spoiler

Rotom-W
@Sitrus Berry
Modest
252 SpAtk
100 Hp
52 SpDef
52 Def
56 Speed

Levitate

-Hex
-Volt Switch
-Will-o-wisp
-Hydro Pump

This one has been tested and is a complete monster. No need to rate this one, just giving you an idea of where I'm getting at.

Mega Kangaskhan

Spoiler

Mega Kangaskhan
@Kangaskhanite
Adamant Nature (+Atk,-SpAtk)
Parental Bond
252 Atk
32 Def
220 SpDef
4 Speed

-Sucker Punch
-Return
-Power-up Punch
-Earthquake

This one is wonderful too. It can sweep almost anything!

Now for the possible replacements
Klefki

Spoiler

Klefki @DampRock (Bold Nature) (Meowstic replacement?)
(Prankster)
-Reflect EVs: 252 HP
-RainDance 252 Def
-Draining Kiss 4 SpDef
-Thunder Wave

Greninja

Spoiler

Greninja @Expert Belt (Modest Nature) (Vaporeon Replacement?)
(Protean)
-MatBlock EVs: 252 SpAtk
-Surf 252 Speed
-Extrasensory 4 HP
-IceBeam

Dragonite

Spoiler

Dragonite @Weakness Policy (Adamant Nature) (Goodra Replacement?)
(Multiscale)
-Dragon Claw Evs: 252 Atk
-Iron Tail/Steel Wing 88 Hp
-Waterfall 84 Def
-Rock Slide 84 SpDef

Suggestions are much appreciated. If you need more info just ask!

 

[TerraTF]

If you're going for a VGC Rain team why don't you have a Drizzletoed? Setting up Rain Dance is a waste of a turn if you can't get it out immediately.

Politoed@Damp Rock
Calm
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Hypnosis/Perish Song
Surf/Scald
Ice Beam
Recover

I would definitely replace Vaporeon with it.

And what is with the insane EV spreads. They're all over the place. Its best not to invest in more than 3 stats.

 

[BigBadBatter]

If you're going for a VGC Rain team why don't you have a Drizzletoed? Setting up Rain Dance is a waste of a turn if you can't get it out immediately.

Politoed@Damp Rock
Calm
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Hypnosis/Perish Song
Surf/Scald
Ice Beam
Recover

I would definitely replace Vaporeon with it.

And what is with the insane EV spreads. They're all over the place. Its best not to invest in more than 3 stats.

The problem I have with Drizzletoad is that in the case that someone changes the weather, you would have to switch in order to change it back. It's a control thing really. As for the EVs, I like to spread things out a little. I've found it works quite well for me.

 

[TerraTF]

If you're going for a VGC Rain team why don't you have a Drizzletoed? Setting up Rain Dance is a waste of a turn if you can't get it out immediately.

Politoed@Damp Rock
Calm
252 HP / 4 SpA / 252 SpD
Hypnosis/Perish Song
Surf/Scald
Ice Beam
Recover

I would definitely replace Vaporeon with it.

And what is with the insane EV spreads. They're all over the place. Its best not to invest in more than 3 stats.

The problem I have with Drizzletoad is that in the case that someone changes the weather, you would have to switch in order to change it back. It's a control thing really. As for the EVs, I like to spread things out a little. I've found it works quite well for me.

If someone wants a weather on the field in VGC Doubles its on the field turn 1. The only weather stopping Drizzletoed is CharY and Tyranitar. And with the EVs spreading out, not enough investment in one stat could be the difference between a win and a loss.

 

[Master Mew]

You can always slap Rain Dance on Politoed to have your cake and eat it, too. It means losing a move slot but you were doing that anyway with Rain Dance on Vaporeon.

 

[Stardust_Trainer]

I agree. Not to mention it can throw off the enemy's prediction. Given Politoed's defensive role instead of offensive, it shouldnt be a problem to have Rain Dance. Right when they think they can switch in TTar, the rain comes back once he gets in.

The EV spreads have already been addressed. It does seem a bit odd but if thats your cup of tea, so be it. The Attract on Kanghaskhan could be replaced with Earthquake. If you have Rotom out or Reflect up, it could work out. He's too damn powerful in his Mega form to let his max damage potential go to waste. If you really like Attract, try to throw it on someone else but this guy needs to destroy.

And the Hydro Pump on Rotom is a necessity. Take out Thunder Wave and leave Will-o-Wisp. That way, the rain cripples the Fire-types already, leaving them open for Hydro Pump and you can burn anything else that resists it and follow up with Hex.

 

[Master Mew]

To be clear, I'm not categorically opposed to Rain Dance over Drizzle, it's just that on a slow pokemon like Vaporeon, especially in Doubles, there's a decent likelihood that you won't get a chance to set your weather at all - which on a Rain team could mean losing the match in the first turn.

 

[BigBadBatter]

Uh, I'm guessing you overlooked Meowstic. He's the rainsetter. Who doesn't love an 8-turn priority raindance

So here's what I'm getting so far:
-Either get rid of raindance on vaporeon or replace it outright
-Replace Twave with Hydro Pump on Rotom
-Replace Attract with EQ on MegaKhan

I can certainly see your point with Drizzletoed, but hear me out on my reasons why I dislike it. Warning: Small essay ahead!

Spoiler

-Its very presence on a team allows your opponent to predict almost exactly what your strategy is going to be. The main reason behind my success is from confusing my opponents with a hard-to-predict team (The weird EV spreads come in handy here too. Those have saved me several wins before)

-IMO without rain in play it's kinda mediocre. It's movepool isn't great, its stats aren't great, and it simply doesn't fit my play style.

-Why I like RainDance over Drizzle has mostly already been addressed. The other reason is that you can't increase the amount of turns that drizzle lasts for with a damp rock.

In conclusion, I can't use politoed for nuts.

One thing I need help deciding though: Steel Wing or Iron Tail on Dragonite? Ineed a steel move for weakness coverage, and unfortunately Kalos-born Dragonite can't have Iron Head.

Anyway, thanks for the feedback so far, it's really helpful! Keep it coming! I'm updating the OP as we go too

 

[TerraTF]

Actually you can use Damp Rock to lengthen Rain to 8 turns

 

[BigBadBatter]

Actually you can use Damp Rock to lengthen Rain to 8 turns

You're right there! Didn't think it could but now I now it does.

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Both of those are terribad due to power (Steel Wing) or accuracy (Iron Tail).

Dragonite @ Weakness Policy
Multiscale
Mild
4 Atk/252 Sp Atk/252 Speed
~Dragon Dance
~Hurricane
~Earthquake
~Dragon Claw/Extreme Speed/Aqua Jet

^^^
This is how a Rain-WeakNite should look.

 

[BigBadBatter]

Both of those are terribad due to power (Steel Wing) or accuracy (Iron Tail).

Dragonite @ Weakness Policy
Multiscale
Mild
4 Atk/252 Sp Atk/252 Speed
~Dragon Dance
~Hurricane
~Earthquake
~Dragon Claw/Extreme Speed/Aqua Jet

^^^
This is how a Rain-WeakNite should look.

I need something to kill fairies with though. And the rest of the set's fine, it works great, it just really needs weakness coverage. Real shame there's no Iron head for kalos born Dnite

 

[UB-01 Kenobi]

Both of those are terribad due to power (Steel Wing) or accuracy (Iron Tail).

Dragonite @ Weakness Policy
Multiscale
Mild
4 Atk/252 Sp Atk/252 Speed
~Dragon Dance
~Hurricane
~Earthquake
~Dragon Claw/Extreme Speed/Aqua Jet

^^^
This is how a Rain-WeakNite should look.

I need something to kill fairies with though. And the rest of the set's fine, it works great, it just really needs weakness coverage. Real shame there's no Iron head for kalos born Dnite

Fairies are not as big a deal for Dragons as people make them out to be honestly.

+2 4 Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 424-500 (139.4 - 164.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (+2 b/c Intimidate would bring you down from +3)

+3 4 Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 354-418 (111.3 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Dragonite Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 393-463 (97.2 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

+3 4 Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 328-387 (117.9 - 139.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+3 4 Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 317-374 (88 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

+3 4 Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 328-387 (83.2 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+3 4 Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 300-353 (76.1 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Cosmic Power

The calcs for EQ inaccurate for Doubles when both opponents are alive, but in Doubles you can dual-target so the principle is still the same - most Fairies won't survive a turn against WeakNite.

 

[BigBadBatter]

Both of those are terribad due to power (Steel Wing) or accuracy (Iron Tail).

Dragonite @ Weakness Policy
Multiscale
Mild
4 Atk/252 Sp Atk/252 Speed
~Dragon Dance
~Hurricane
~Earthquake
~Dragon Claw/Extreme Speed/Aqua Jet

^^^
This is how a Rain-WeakNite should look.

I need something to kill fairies with though. And the rest of the set's fine, it works great, it just really needs weakness coverage. Real shame there's no Iron head for kalos born Dnite

Fairies are not as big a deal for Dragons as people make them out to be honestly.

+2 4 Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mawile: 424-500 (139.4 - 164.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO (+2 b/c Intimidate would bring you down from +3)

+3 4 Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 252+ Def Klefki: 354-418 (111.3 - 131.4%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+2 252+ SpA Dragonite Hurricane vs. 252 HP / 4 SpD Azumarill: 393-463 (97.2 - 114.6%) -- 81.3% chance to OHKO

+3 4 Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Mega Gardevoir: 328-387 (117.9 - 139.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO

+3 4 Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Florges: 317-374 (88 - 103.8%) -- 25% chance to OHKO

+3 4 Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Sylveon: 328-387 (83.2 - 98.2%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery

+3 4 Atk Dragonite Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Clefable: 300-353 (76.1 - 89.5%) -- guaranteed 2HKO after Leftovers recovery and Cosmic Power

The calcs for EQ inaccurate for Doubles when both opponents are alive, but in Doubles you can dual-target so the principle is still the same - most Fairies won't survive a turn against WeakNite.

Fair enough, but what makes a steel move so attractive is that is beats 3 or its 4 weaknesses, the missing one is easily killed by its STAB anyway. Also the problem with EQ is that a lot of the team has some frailty problems, so the only one it could use it alongside would be rotom. Not to mention that with the prominence of Fairy-type supporters and that the rest of my team lacks the moves required to cover that little hole in my strategy, and dragonite could probably be the best one to handle it. Some other issues with that set is it's clearly a singles set. With all the Garchomps and Azumarills running around in doubles setting up a DD isn't something you have time to do. Like John Freeman says in Half-Life: Full Life Consequences, with a doubles Dragonite you kill fast but wasting a turn on DD is too slow.