Nerfing the Steel type

[Morningstar]

Before I begin, I have two things to say. First off, I am still a little opposed to the idea of removing Steel's resistances, but I am interested to see if others think it is necessary for the sake of balancing other types. If this has topic been brought up before, I apologize.

Okay so a few months back, we have a few threads about buffing or nerfing certain types. The discussions were centered around Ice, Fairy and Grass. Two of which were already weak to Steel. I wanted to ask about this particularly because any changes to the type interactions might affect steel in a negative way and in fact has.

The type was introduced along with Dark in gen 2. While Dark and Fairy were clearly designed to deal with a type that can considered the king of all types at the time. Steel seems to be designed to be your go-to type for defensive strategies. It appeared that every other types was at the extremes of being Super effective on it or the more likely case of doing mere chip damage to it. The few weaknesses it did have were based around the melting point of metals, the vulnerability metal structures have to earthquakes and the perception of martial artists having superhuman strength. It also is further proof that GF can't make a new type without slapping on an immunity, in its case, Poison.

However, its nature as the ultimate defensive type in a game that favors offensive strategies means that I think it could become nerfed by nature if GF wants to buff other types. If GF wants to make Ice SE to Fairy, then that means Steel-types become more desirable because a vulnerable type would be more common, and the introduction of the Fairy type also cause Steel to lose the Dark and Ghost resistances.

With that said, Steel and Poison were made to be SE on fairies. Rendering the loss of the resistances a necessity and GF seems has been going forward to make Steel and Ice types a bit more offensively minded.

• Aegislash: Infamous for its ability to quickly swap its offensives with this defensive stats (for reference, Power Trick takes up a turn to use) and was banned from Smogon for being considered too good.
• Alolan Sandslash: Slush Rush, Decent attacking stats and being Ice/Steel. Its a step in this direction.
• Mega Mawile: A steel-type from its introduction and one that gained the fairy-type. Mawile became a menace with Huge Power and an attack stat to back that up.
• Mega Lucario: While Lucario themself (and Metagross) might be considered a prototype for the idea of a attack-minded steel-type that feature was less prominent to the point of tenuousness. But the Mega and the introduction to fairies made the Fighting/Steel type pokemon a lot more powerful than other Fighting-types.
• Magearna: Interestingly enough also a part fairy-type. This Mythical pokemon's power comes from having a one of a kind Draco meteor clone as well as the ability to mitigate its effects, but only if gets a KO. In many ways adhering to the traditional defensive archtype associated with the type, but considering Trick Room...

With that said, I am wondering if Steel, like Ice, should be geared towards an offensive type rather than a defensive one, or that having a Shield in a game of Swords causes problems for balance in general. For this reason, I ask this. Do you think Steel has to give for the sake of balance, but still have enough resistances to retain its defensive status? Do you think that it shouldn't be changed. Or do you think it should be brought down to the level of other types, with some resistances, and some weaknesses, but with at least half of the types dealing neutral damage to it?

 

[PurplePopplio]

I think that it's alright as it is now. It already lost the resistances to Ghost and Dark. Why nerf it even more?

 

[Matleo]

you have burn, corrosion(poison) and can put steel types to sleep, freeze them and paralyze like others or not?

the only things we would need are new moves and abilities for other types.
Could see a ground type move version of First Impression (That should have been High Horse Power).

Mudsdale can fight with Aegislash pretty well or not???

 

[Almonds]

Steel is good as it is. I don't think it needs to be nerfed.

 

[ocelotlrama jaguar]

Steel-types are one of the most unwieldy types for me to use. There are not a lot of Steel-type moves that are too effective against common threats and the ones that are strong are only learned by a select few, like the few Pokemon you mentioned in your original post, OP. Their saving grace is that it is resistant to a lot of types, despite the fact that they lost their resistance to Dark and Ghost-types. My big problem with using Steel-types is that a good portion of them are very slow and those that are physically strong and fast are already weak against some common enemies and moves out there. Anymore nerfing and I will never use this type again.

Steel is fine the way it is. Of the Pokemon you mentioned, Aegislash is its own special beast that goes way beyond its Steel typing. Magearna is also tricky but it's not its Steel-typing that makes it difficult to take down.

 

[DoctorWhy]

Taking away Steel's resistances to Ghost and Dark is already enough nerfing imo.

 

[Silktree]

I wanted its defensive aspects to be nerfed in XY, and I got that (honestly, the type chart changes are almost the only positive things I can say about XY). Now there is no need to go further.

 

[CynthiaLover]

I agree with those who say Steel should remain as is. After all, in Gen VI, it got a significant downgrade in the form of losing resistance to Dark and Ghost. That alone is a solid blow to their nature, and thus they shouldn't get any more of a downgrade. It's still pretty solid overall despite the loss of resistances, but it's better that we don't nerf it any further. After all, it's a rather poor offensive type, with most of their attacks being rather inaccurate (at least until Flash Cannon and Iron Head appeared, but still), so it's best to not do any more damage to it. I'm glad for the loss of two resistances, to be honest, as Steel was a bit too sturdy for a very long time. So let's leave it alone, as Steel Mons doesn't need to lose any more luster to their metallic hides.

 

[Bolt Strike]

I don't think it should be nerfed, but balanced. Nerf it defensively but buff it offensively. Steel could use some better attacks but when it resists half of the type chart that would put it into OP territory.

 

[Silktree]

If anything, they should just make Iron Tail more accurate. Maybe remove the resistance to Psychic and Ice.

 

[Guzma]

Maybe remove the resistance to Psychic and Ice.

Not gonna happen. Steel was partly introduced to balance the Psychic-type in the first place (as well as the OP Normal type; as underwhelming as Normal is now, never forget that it was second only to Psychic in RGBY because it was only resisted by Rock, which had a shitload of weaknesses and no real good Pokémon, and Ghost, which consisted of one evolutionary family), and as much as I'd like to see Ice get a buff, I can't see them removing Steel's resistance to it. While cold can damage metal by making it brittle, it takes cold temperatures longer to damage metal than high temperatures. And ice doesn't stand a chance against being smashed by metal.

If we want to give Ice a buff, make it both resist and be strong against Water, which is a type that actually does need a nerf. It's only resisted by three types, one of which has a boatload (pun not intended this time) of weaknesses (Grass), one that got nerfed hard by the existence of Fairies (Dragon, and by the way Fairy pairs real well with Water, as evidenced by Primarina being UU despite having some issues), and... Itself. And it only has two weaknesses, one of which is Grass (which, again, has a crapton of weaknesses), and one of which is Electric, which has only one weakness... To Ground, which is one of the best types competitively speaking. Not to mention how most Water-types can learn Ice-type moves to screw over the Grass-types that are supposedly advantageous against them.

 

[Silktree]

Psychic arguably doesn't need that check anymore. They went overboard with it; just Dark and the Special split were enough. The fact of the matter is that Psychic types are neglected in competitive battles (barring legendaries and Megas).

Whether or not it's going to happen is not my point.

 

[Guzma]

I do think the Psychic-type needs a boost, admittedly. Making it resist Fairy would make sense, to represent "logic" winning out over "fairy tales." I can see the logic behind making Psychic not resisted by Steel, too, given it lost its resistances to Dark and Ghost; they could make a reference to the frequent motif of Psychic-types bending metal spoons. Besides, Psychic's got more to fear than just Dark types, now that there are decent Ghost-types other than Gengar and (thankfully) there are some pretty solid Bug-types now.

However, it would still be kind of defeating part of the reason Steel was introduced, so I don't see it happening.

EDIT: added in further thoughts.

 

[IncineROAR]

I think Steel is fine as is. For one, there isn't that many steel types too begin with, and most steel types are dual-typed, which can open up the door to more weaknesses.

 

[Matleo]

rather we would need steel type move to reduce oponents speed or that rise your own speed.
Plus steel doenst have any own moves to induce any status?
what about flinching?

 

[Silktree]

Iron Head has a 30% flinch rate, but most Steel types are too slow to benefit from that.

 

[IncineROAR]

Lucario is one of my favorite mons' to play with, and it only has one move in its entire moveset that is even a steel type, Metal Claw. Steelix learns Iron Tail, but that move has a chance of not hitting its opponent.

So if anything Steel types can use a little boost in terms of its available moves, not being nerfed.

 

[Guzma]

Luke can learn Flash Cannon from TM (and has a good enough Special Attack stat it can make some use out of it; honestly, there need to be more special Steel-type moves), and can be bred with Hitmonchan or Pangoro to learn Bullet Punch.

Honestly? I'm not sure why it doesn't learn Iron Head. Then again, I'm not sure why it's Fighting/Steel and not Fighting/Psychic, too.

 

[Sablaireau]

True, it is arguably the best type now, but I don't think it needs a nerf. Steel has an important place on the metagame, acting as a blanket check to many types such as Fairy, Psychic, Flying, etc. which could be very overpowering otherwise. Plus, in spite of all its resistances, its three weaknesses are three of the worst to have.

Anyone who thinks that Psychic types need a buff clearly has no experience with the Tapu Lele/Mega Alazazam teams that have been dominating the meta.

 

[Matleo]

- create a new steel type sound damaging move and make bug type resist sound moves
- create a ability that would make a pokemon immune or block the steel type moves
(magnetism, maybe also to electric?)
- create a ability that would make the user immune to blade,sword, sratch, bite, cut, slash moves
(and create a sword,saber steel type move)
- make Bulletproof block flash cannon too if it already blocks zap cannon
- make steel types slower when it rains (some kind of corrosion)