New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be held i

[BulbaBot]

New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be held in September

The second Japanese tournament for Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 via Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection has been announced. The tournament is called the All Star Cup. This tournament will be held in September.

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[TouyaShiro]

Re: New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be he

All Distortion World is going to break loose in the All-Star Cup. If I had it, I would so love to try using a Black Kyurem with a Power Herb, and use its signature move Freeze Shock...to the surprise of some tournament players on there.
For White Kyurem, though, I can just see it - Blizzard fest all day long. 170 base Special Attack, 120 (STAB 180) Blizzard. Ouch.
And Victini? Hoo boy...that V-Create. That's about the only thing that might be able to contest White Kyurem IMO...maybe Meloetta's Close Combat will do the job.
Either way, I don't have anything to look forward to because other than a Victini I have absolutely none of what I just listed!

 

[Joshawott]

Re: New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be he

Genesect's typing and movepool should make it an absolute beast.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

Re: New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be he

Looks like the teams are going to be nothing but legendaries rather than regular Pokemon.

Genesect's typing and movepool should make it an absolute beast.

Except coverage against Fire types and the unpopularity of Techno Blaster for competitive players.

 

[Joshawott]

Re: New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be he

Looks like the teams are going to be nothing but legendaries rather than regular Pokemon.

Genesect's typing and movepool should make it an absolute beast.

Except coverage against Fire types and the unpopularity of Techno Blaster for competitive players.

In this ruleset, the only fire-types you'll likely to be facing are Chandelure, Reshiram, Victini and possibly Arcanine. Dark Pulse is super effective against two of those (or Shadow Claw if you want a physical moveset), otherwise, there's Hidden Power (my Genesect's Hidden Power type is Ground =3). I doubt that many fire-types will be used though, due to the prevalence of Tyranitar in the VGC metagame (in fact, pair Tyranitar up with Genesect and you have a mean combination).

Genesect's base stats are good (if modest for a legendary Pokémon), but it has an amazing typing and movepool. The great thing about doubles though is, even if one of your Pokémon is weak against something, you can have your other Pokémon there to cover that weakness.
Scizor's vulnerable to fire-types but is used a hell of a lot in the current VGC format, because aside from that fire weakness, nothing can touch it.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

Re: New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be he

In this ruleset, the only fire-types you'll likely to be facing are Chandelure, Reshiram, Victini and possibly Arcanine. Dark Pulse is super effective against two of those (or Shadow Claw if you want a physical moveset), otherwise, there's Hidden Power (my Genesect's Hidden Power type is Ground =3). I doubt that many fire-types will be used though, due to the prevalence of Tyranitar in the VGC metagame (in fact, pair Tyranitar up with Genesect and you have a mean combination).

What about Volcarona, Darmanitan, Simisear, and Magmortar? And Aren't most Fire types faster than Tyranitar and are equipped with a Fighting move to OHKO it?

Genesect's base stats are good (if modest for a legendary Pokémon), but it has an amazing typing and movepool. The great thing about doubles though is, even if one of your Pokémon is weak against something, you can have your other Pokémon there to cover that weakness.
Scizor's vulnerable to fire-types but is used a hell of a lot in the current VGC format, because aside from that fire weakness, nothing can touch it.

It's too bad that doubles is never used as a standard competitive play for the unofficial tournaments.

 

[Joshawott]

Re: New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be he

In this ruleset, the only fire-types you'll likely to be facing are Chandelure, Reshiram, Victini and possibly Arcanine. Dark Pulse is super effective against two of those (or Shadow Claw if you want a physical moveset), otherwise, there's Hidden Power (my Genesect's Hidden Power type is Ground =3). I doubt that many fire-types will be used though, due to the prevalence of Tyranitar in the VGC metagame (in fact, pair Tyranitar up with Genesect and you have a mean combination).

What about Volcarona, Darmanitan, Simisear, and Magmortar? And Aren't most Fire types faster than Tyranitar and are equipped with a Fighting move to OHKO it?

Volcarona isn't used in VGC because of its 4x weakness to rock and the sheer number of Pokémon that know Rock Slide. Darmanitan isn't used that often due to its poor defences and weaknesses to several multi-hit moves like Rock Slide, Earthquake and Surf. Magmortar isn't used because it's fairly lacklustre in general. Tyranitar is also commonly given a Chople Berry, which means it can survive a lot of fighting type attacks (particularly ones without STAB). As for Simisear...it's just crap.

Genesect's base stats are good (if modest for a legendary Pokémon), but it has an amazing typing and movepool. The great thing about doubles though is, even if one of your Pokémon is weak against something, you can have your other Pokémon there to cover that weakness.
Scizor's vulnerable to fire-types but is used a hell of a lot in the current VGC format, because aside from that fire weakness, nothing can touch it.

It's too bad that doubles is never used as a standard competitive play for the unofficial tournaments.

Outside of Smogon that is. Unofficial VGC rules play is fairly popular and common on other websites; one of the biggest being the Pokémon Online program.

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

Re: New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be he

Volcarona isn't used in VGC because of its 4x weakness to rock and the sheer number of Pokémon that know Rock Slide. Darmanitan isn't used that often due to its poor defences and weaknesses to several multi-hit moves like Rock Slide, Earthquake and Surf. Magmortar isn't used because it's fairly lacklustre in general.

But Arcanine has the same speed as Darmanitan and has the possibility of getting OHKO'd by several multi-hit moves yet is seen as a possible threat (same with Chandelure), and Volcarona's 4x weakness shouldn't be a problem because it has Giga Drain via Move Tutor and, as you said with Genesect, will be paired up with a Pokemon who can cover its weakness. I'm surprised you haven't mentioned Stealth Rock due to its position as the most dominant game changer.

Tyranitar is also commonly given a Chople Berry, which means it can survive a lot of fighting type attacks (particularly ones without STAB).

Yet Smogon never suggests them outside of Yache Berries for Garchomp.

As for Simisear...it's just crap.

But Grass Knot.

 

[Joshawott]

Re: New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be he

Volcarona isn't used in VGC because of its 4x weakness to rock and the sheer number of Pokémon that know Rock Slide. Darmanitan isn't used that often due to its poor defences and weaknesses to several multi-hit moves like Rock Slide, Earthquake and Surf. Magmortar isn't used because it's fairly lacklustre in general.

But Arcanine has the same speed as Darmanitan and has the possibility of getting OHKO'd by several multi-hit moves yet is seen as a possible threat (same with Chandelure), and Volcarona's 4x weakness shouldn't be a problem because it has Giga Drain via Move Tutor and, as you said with Genesect, will be paired up with a Pokemon who can cover its weakness. I'm surprised you haven't mentioned Stealth Rock due to its position as the most dominant game changer.

Tyranitar is also commonly given a Chople Berry, which means it can survive a lot of fighting type attacks (particularly ones without STAB).

Yet Smogon never suggests them outside of Yache Berries for Garchomp.

As for Simisear...it's just crap.

But Grass Knot.

Arcanine has the Intimidate ability, which gives you an instant -2 attack drop on TWO of your opponent's Pokémon. Not to mention that it has access to ExtremeSpeed, as well as excellent coverage with Close Combat, Wild Charge and Outrage. Darmanitan lacks all but one of those. Darmanitan has seen limited use, but often isn't used due to being frail. It will be interesting to observe if usefulness does go up in this format, but Victini will be most people's fire-type of choice.

With Tyranitar, I'm not sure what you're getting at - a Yache berry wouldn't activate on Tyranitar due to it not being weak to ice and a Chople Berry wouldn't activate on Garchomp due to it not being weak to fighting. Tyranitar is 4x weak to Fighting, which is one of the most common attacking types in VGC, so a Chople Berry is a must for a non-Choice Scarf Tyranitar (Smogon may also say Focus Sash is an option, but I've never encountered any using it, because other than Fighting moves, due to Sandstorm's defensive boost, not much will 1HKO it).

As for Simisear, even with Grass Knot, it's crap. For example, Smogon haven't even bothered to make a VGC move set for it and for standard OU, they list it as "Rarely Used". It's HP, defence and special defence are far too poor. Victini completely outclasses it.

Also, entry hazards are rarely used in VGC - they're not worthy it as there isn't nearly the amount of switching in 4v4 doubles. With Volcarona, its weakness to so many multi-hit moves makes it hard to cover with another Pokémon. It had a small niche in VGC12 due to the combined threat of Cresseoia and Ferrothorn, but without Cresselia in the game, only it's fire-type STAB will be needed and it's outclassed on that due to other Pokémon not being so weak to the ever-present Rock Slide.

I was actually talking pretty in depth with a highly renowned UK VGC player last night about this tournament and we came to the conclusion that with Victini (and possibly Reshiram) floating around, Genesect won't be of much use. It has the typing and move set, but the base stats are fairly lacklustre compared to the amount of big legendaries that will be going around.

 

[TouyaShiro]

Re: New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be he

@Joshawott, I don't know if you read the post wrong or your head was up in the clouds, but as far as I could make out @Ghetsis-Dennis was referring to the Yache Berry in relation to Garchomp only.
And I thought Intimidate only lowered the opponent Pokémon's attack by 1 Stage... at least, that's how I remembered it. (In other words, -1 Attack if it was sent out on a Pokémon without any boosts to Attack)

Edit: Also, no comment on Kyurem Formes taking the stage in this tournament?

 

[Joshawott]

Re: New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be he

@Joshawott, I don't know if you read the post wrong or your head was up in the clouds, but as far as I could make out @Ghetsis-Dennis was referring to the Yache Berry in relation to Garchomp only.
And I thought Intimidate only lowered the opponent Pokémon's attack by 1 Stage... at least, that's how I remembered it. (In other words, -1 Attack if it was sent out on a Pokémon without any boosts to Attack)

Edit: Also, no comment on Kyurem Formes taking the stage in this tournament?

You're right it was one stage. My mind got mixed up because of how with Defiant, it turns into a +1 boost.

Not sure where Garchomp comes into it though, as Garchomp isn't in the Unova Pokédex.

 

[TouyaShiro]

Re: New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be he

@Joshawott, I guess you're right on the Garchomp thing not even being part of the Unova Dex, though I think @Ghetsis-Dennis only mentioned Garchomp on the notion that (if you read his post) Smogon only ever suggested the respective Type resisting berries for Tyranitar (not even I'm sure of that) or Garchomp (hence the Yache Berry).

...still no talk of Kyurem's viability...

 

[rubinek]

Re: New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be he

I am assuming that by "Unova dex" the author means the BW2 pre-Leauge Pokedex?

Neither of the Kyurem forms will be too dominating in my opinion. Both flat-out lose to Sandstorm teams, which will almost certainly be the standard team archetype in this tournament (the only other weather is Sun, which is at huge disadvantage against SS teams). Both get ravaged by Rock Slide, which is a very common move in Doubles in general. Terrakion will have a field day smashing those two with a Close Combat.

Apart from the weaknesses I listed, everyone, and I mean everyone is guaranteed to be (over)prepared against both Kyurem forms. The metagame will be oversaturated with all possible Kyurem counters and anti-strategies, which means sweeps won't be as easy as one might think.

With that being said, I'm certainly looking forward to build some nifty Gravity team, starring Blizzard-spamming Kyurem-W.

 

[Joshawott]

Re: New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be he

@Joshawott, I guess you're right on the Garchomp thing not even being part of the Unova Dex, though I think @Ghetsis-Dennis only mentioned Garchomp on the notion that (if you read his post) Smogon only ever suggested the respective Type resisting berries for Tyranitar (not even I'm sure of that) or Garchomp (hence the Yache Berry).

...still no talk of Kyurem's viability...

Actually, I see the type resist berries used a lot in VGC (particularly Yache, Chople, Occa, Wacan and occasionally the others).

As for Kyurem, I have previously mentioned how White Kyurem will probably be used a fair bit.

@rubinek; The problem with Sandstorm teams is that too many of the Pokémon share common weaknesses, so they are easily countered. I can see Terrakion being a big threat to Kyurem though. I can see Trick Room being a real though.

 

[rubinek]

Re: New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be he

The problem with Sandstorm teams is that too many of the Pokémon share common weaknesses, so they are easily countered. I can see Terrakion being a big threat to Kyurem though. I can see Trick Room being a real though.

But that's one of the major advantages of playing with Sandstorm - you don't really need any SS specific Pokemon apart from Tyranitar and Excadrill to dominate. You can easily use the 4 remaining slots to cover the weakness of this duo. Thundurus (dat priority T-Wave), Scrafty (Fake Out) and similar will probably be the premier choices.

 

[Joshawott]

Re: New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be he

The problem with Sandstorm teams is that too many of the Pokémon share common weaknesses, so they are easily countered. I can see Terrakion being a big threat to Kyurem though. I can see Trick Room being a real though.

But that's one of the major advantages of playing with Sandstorm - you don't really need any SS specific Pokemon apart from Tyranitar and Excadrill to dominate. You can easily use the 4 remaining slots to cover the weakness of this duo. Thundurus (dat priority T-Wave), Scrafty (Fake Out) and similar will probably be the premier choices.

Not really a good sandstorm team if only 2 Pokémon can exploit it though is it?

 

[Ghetsis-Dennis]

Re: New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be he

This is why I have to rework my dream team, so it can survive Sandstorm teams, which are more common than any other other weather effects out there due to Tyranitar being the most used Pokemon in the series.

Also @Joshawott; I was using Garchomp as an example of the only Pokemon I see being given a berry by unofficial tournaments like Smogon because berries are rarely used by them as opposed to the VGC, which led me to believe that Smogon is the true way of how the game is played.

 

[Silktree]

Re: New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be he

This probably means that legendaries will be useable in VGC 2013, as was also done before in 2010 (albeit not for the event-exclusive legendaries). The only question is whether or not the Unova Pokédex restriction will be applied; it would be a step back from the diversity of this year's eligible Pokémon. Either way, using a B2W2 cartridge will probably be mandatory for arbitrary (promotional) reasons.

which led me to believe that Smogon is the true way of how the game is played.

Obviously not in VGC or these official Wi-Fi tournaments. The site itself acknowledges that fact.

 

[rubinek]

Re: New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be he

The problem with Sandstorm teams is that too many of the Pokémon share common weaknesses, so they are easily countered. I can see Terrakion being a big threat to Kyurem though. I can see Trick Room being a real though.

But that's one of the major advantages of playing with Sandstorm - you don't really need any SS specific Pokemon apart from Tyranitar and Excadrill to dominate. You can easily use the 4 remaining slots to cover the weakness of this duo. Thundurus (dat priority T-Wave), Scrafty (Fake Out) and similar will probably be the premier choices.

Not really a good sandstorm team if only 2 Pokémon can exploit it though is it?

Why not? Is there a rule that says that Sandstorm team has to have at least X abusers in order to be classified as good? You don't have that many ways to exploit Sandstorm either way. SpDef boost on anything but Tyranitar is pretty negligible and the only good Sand Rush Pokemon is Excadrill (Stoutland pretty much sucks, while Sandslash is inferior to Excadrill and stacks additional Water/Grass weakness). And you can't really exploit the damaging effect of SS, unless you're crazy enough to run a stall team in Doubles (good luck with that).

Actually, one of the more popular team archetypes in this year's VGC 2012 format has been Tyranitar / Garchomp / Zapdos / Hitmontop / Metagross / Cresselia (or some slight variations of thereof). Notice how only two Pokemon technically abuse Sandstorm, while the rest is just a "supporting cast".

 

[Joshawott]

Re: New Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 Wi-Fi tournament announced: All Star Cup to be he

The problem with Sandstorm teams is that too many of the Pokémon share common weaknesses, so they are easily countered. I can see Terrakion being a big threat to Kyurem though. I can see Trick Room being a real though.

But that's one of the major advantages of playing with Sandstorm - you don't really need any SS specific Pokemon apart from Tyranitar and Excadrill to dominate. You can easily use the 4 remaining slots to cover the weakness of this duo. Thundurus (dat priority T-Wave), Scrafty (Fake Out) and similar will probably be the premier choices.

Not really a good sandstorm team if only 2 Pokémon can exploit it though is it?

Why not? Is there a rule that says that Sandstorm team has to have at least X abusers in order to be classified as good? You don't have that many ways to exploit Sandstorm either way. SpDef boost on anything but Tyranitar is pretty negligible and the only good Sand Rush Pokemon is Excadrill (Stoutland pretty much sucks, while Sandslash is inferior to Excadrill and stacks additional Water/Grass weakness). And you can't really exploit the damaging effect of SS, unless you're crazy enough to run a stall team in Doubles (good luck with that).

Actually, one of the more popular team archetypes in this year's VGC 2012 format has been Tyranitar / Garchomp / Zapdos / Hitmontop / Metagross / Cresselia (or some slight variations of thereof). Notice how only two Pokemon technically abuse Sandstorm, while the rest is just a "supporting cast".

*Is reminded of Cresselia*
*shudders*
I raised a Scizor today just for that psychedelic duck xD

I wouldn't have called that a weather team in itself; with Tyranitar's Sand Stream mainly being there to disrupt any possible rain teams, as opposed to setting up its own strategy. One thing I noticed a lot in more recent battles is people replacing Garchomp with Latios anyway.