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New Pokémon Discussion

Which flying pokemon in B/W do you prefer?

  • Unfezant

    Votes: 9 4.9%
  • Swoobat

    Votes: 15 8.2%
  • Sigllyph

    Votes: 18 9.9%
  • Archeops

    Votes: 38 20.9%
  • Swanna

    Votes: 14 7.7%
  • Braviary

    Votes: 61 33.5%
  • Mandibuzz

    Votes: 7 3.8%
  • Pfffft, i'll use a legendary.

    Votes: 8 4.4%
  • No.

    Votes: 12 6.6%

  • Total voters
    182
  • Poll closed .

Sanic Hegehog

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The only thing that annoys me about Emboar is that he's yet another Fire/Fighting type. But I do like his design and he learns some interesting moves.
 

Magmortar123

Get those Devil Horns up
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Fire/Fighting doesn't bother me much, although a Fire/Steel would've been awesome. I especially like that he gets head smash
 

bluesun

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I think I found how to locate the pictures of all Pokemon on the Dream World site, give me a day or so and hopefully I'll have them.

Meanwhile, some possibly interesting data I've found:
The following forms have data on the PDW:
Unown: A,B,C,D,E,F,G,H,I,J,K,L,M,N,O,P,Q,R,S,T,U,V,W,X,Y,Z,!,?(28)
Castform: [unlabeled],Taiyou no Sugata(Sun Form),Amamizu no Sugata(?)(Rainwater Form),Yukigumo no Sugata(Snowcloud Form)(4)
Deoxys: Normal Forme,Attack Forme,Defence Forme,Speed Forme(4)
Burmy/Mothim: Kusaki no Mino(Vegetation Cloak),Sunachi no Mino(Sandy Soil Cloak),Gomi no Mino(Trash Cloak)(3)
Cherrim: Nega Forme,Posi Forme(2)
Shellos/Gastrodon: Nishi no Umi(West Sea),Higashi no Umi(East Sea)(2)
Rotom: Normal Forme,Heat Rotom,Wash Rotom,Frost Rotom,Spin Rotom,Cut Rotom(6)
Giratina: Another Forme,Origin Forme(2)
Shaymin: Land Forme,Sky Forme(2)
Arceus: Normal,Kakutou(Fighting),Hikou(Flying),Doku(Poison),Jimen(Ground),Iwa(Rock),Mushi(Bug),Ghost,Hagane(Steel),Honoo(Fire),Mizu(Water),Kusa(Grass),Denki(Electric),Esper,Koori(Ice),Dragon,Aku(Dark)(17)
Bassrao: Akasuji no Sugata(Red Stripe Form),Aosuji no Sugata(Blue Stripe Form)(2)
Shikijika/Mebukijika: Haru no Sugata(Spring Form),Natsu no Sugata(Summer Form),Aki no Sugata(Autumn Form),Fuyu no Sugata(Winter Form)(4)
Pururil/Burungel: Ao(Blue)/Pink(2)

The following Pokemon do not have PDW data:
Dokkora,Dotekkotsu,Roubushin,Gamagaru,Gamageroge,Archen,Archeos,Vanipeti,Vanirichi,Baivanilla,Tesseed,Nuttley,Shibishirasu,Shibibeel,Shibirudon,Ohbem,Freezio...
Then after Freezio, the only ones that DO have data are: Chobomaki,Agilder,Baforon,Washibon,Wargle,Reshiram,Zekrom.

So no Sazandra(or similar) image just yet.
 

JordanN

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I never got the hate for Fire/Fighting. What made Charizard suck was its weakness to stealth rock. At least the part fighting helps neutralizes it.

I hope the next gen also goes Fire/Fighting.
 
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Super Seaking

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I've heard Emboar get a lot of hate, but does anyone like him? I really do, he's my favorite (fully evolved) starter this gen.
Emboar is cool. Ever see its official art? Yeah...I just dont like how its Fire/Fighting again...at least this time they expanded upon the pun by teaching it Boiling Water. He he.

I think a better question would be.....what do you guys think of the monkey trio? I think the first forms are OK, but I really hate their evolutions. Im not going to evolve the Water-one, which Im using as an HM slave.

I hope the next gen also goes Fire/Fighting.
What? Youre crazy.
 

Ivysaur

SoFloFoSho
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I hate Emboar because it's fat, it has a tiny head, its stat distribution isn't good at all, and it recycles the Fire/Fighting typing for the third time. I was okay with Infernape, but this was a little too much, especially since GameFreak was trying to make Black and White seem more fresh and new.

What? Youre crazy.

On the one hand, Fire/Fighting is a good typing. But I have to agree. We need variety with our typings, and there are plenty of other great possible type combinations with the Fire-type other than Fire/Fighting.
 

Magmortar123

Get those Devil Horns up
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True. Heatran, despite being 4X weak to ground, is an absolute beast. I think if emboar were fire/steel like heatran, he could be much better. Also, I think his speed and sp.attack need to switch...
 

RudolphMilotic

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True. Heatran, despite being 4X weak to ground, is an absolute beast. I think if emboar were fire/steel like heatran, he could be much better. Also, I think his speed and sp.attack need to switch...

Its stat distribution is fine: not all Pokémon need to be fast sweepers and with a high Base HP it can take hits of pretty much anything that isn't a Super-Effective move from very strong opponents. I know it because I've seen quite a good number of Battle Videos with Enbuoh in action and it's a brute force to be reckoned upon, varying from a Trick Room sweeper (it learns Curse by breeding, for example) to a respectable physical/special sweeper with Choice Scarf support or a mixed sweeper giving its somewhat large movepool: neither Jalorda nor Daikenki can match the usefulness of the fire boar.

Speaking of Jalorda and Daikenki, I found them to be boring, overrated and missing competitive presence overall: Jalorda is outclassed by both Meganium/Venusaur and Sceptile in its role as a Leech Seeder/staller/defensive Pokémon even when looking at options like Snake Coil and Calm Mind, and Daikenki is just a lackluster option for a sweeper 'cause it gets overshadowed by Feraligatr (as a physical sweeper, even with Megahorn and Shell Blade) and Empoleon (as a special sweeper, with limited options for attacks, worse defensive type, not Agility support, etc.). Jalorda with Perversity is a joke when you realize that you aren't going to sweep anything with an mediocre Base Sp. Attack of 75 even with a beneficial nature and +4/+6 in Sp. Attack from Leaf Storm. I do really think they look cool, however, but stat and competitive-related they are far from being better than Enbuoh in the battle department.

Blaziken and Infernape could be better options than Enbouh, although at the same time every one of them (will) have a specific role in the (new) metagame. And at least Enbuoh is the only one of the BW starter trio that has an actual signature move specific to its evolutionary line, that being Heat Stamp (both Grass Mixer and Shell Blade are learned by other Pokémon other than Tsutarja's and Mijumaru's lines).
 

UtterDarkness

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I never got the hate for Fire/Fighting. What made Charizard suck was its weakness to stealth rock. At least the part fighting helps neutralizes it.

I hope the next gen also goes Fire/Fighting.

Pokemon isn't just for the metagame. I rather have more variety in the typings than to make every single pokemon unstoppable juggernauts. In case you didn't know, Stealth Rock is no longer a TM, thus the Fire/Fighting combo isn't really needed to counteract that problem, so you put that concern to rest.
 
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Joshawott

The Possibly Fake
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I've heard Emboar get a lot of hate, but does anyone like him? I really do, he's my favorite (fully evolved) starter this gen.
Only problem with Emboar is, all his best attacks deal recoil damage. Even with the High HP, he'll quickly go down.
 

Sanic Hegehog

Ur 2 Slow!!
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Daikenki is just a lackluster option for a sweeper 'cause it gets overshadowed by Feraligatr (as a physical sweeper, even with Megahorn and Shell Blade) and Empoleon (as a special sweeper, with limited options for attacks, worse defensive type, not Agility support, etc.).

But if you Daikenki as a Mix Sweeper, then you're going onto more unique land. Daikenki's attack stats are pretty balanced at 100 attack and 108 special attack, and it learns moves that are hardly distributed by water types like Megahorn and Grass Knot. Something like Aqua Jet/Megahorn/GrassKnot/HydroPump with a life orb can rip apart walls and can decently revenge kill with Aqua jet.
 

RudolphMilotic

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But if you Daikenki as a Mix Sweeper, then you're going onto more unique land. Daikenki's attack stats are pretty balanced at 100 attack and 108 special attack, and it learns moves that are hardly distributed by water types like Megahorn and Grass Knot. Something like Aqua Jet/Megahorn/GrassKnot/HydroPump with a life orb can rip apart walls and can decently revenge kill with Aqua jet.


There are better Mixed Water-type sweepers out there, so it isn't as impressive as it sounds. Bad Speed actually renders Daikenki worthless against other options such as Sharpedo or Hiyakki (which can learn both Cheer Up and Nasty Plot, though it doesn't get Megahorn or Aqua Jet, which aren't that impressive either), and with defensive stats of 95/85/70 you aren't going to resist many hits anyway.

Ryu Shoji said:
Only problem with Emboar is, all his best attacks deal recoil damage. Even with the High HP, he'll quickly go down.

Completely untrue, as you aren't forced to use Reckless with Flare Blitz or Head Smash in every set you can think. It gets Stone Edge and Rock Slide to substitute Head Smash, and Flare Blitz can be substituted by Heat Stamp giving the heavy nature of Enbuoh. For Fighting-type attacks it got Superpower, Hammer Arm and Brick Break, which should be used on different scenarios (Choice Scarf/Band, Trick Room and all-around sweeper respectively) and Wild Bolt causes such minuscule recoil damage that it doesn't really matter, at least not in the long run.

In the special department, it got a pretty interesting option in the form of Boil Over/Water, aside from Grass Knot and the expected special attacks for a Fire-type, so a mixed set is possible with help from Hidden Power and Cheer Up. Even a full special-set can be made with the right moves and support.

UtterDarkness said:
Pokemon isn't just for the metagame. I rather have more variety in the typings

The thing is, if you are talking about "variety" in typings, you're implicitly refering to the metagame in some fashion.
 
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#Daisuke#

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I hate Emboar because it's fat, it has a tiny head, its stat distribution isn't good at all, and it recycles the Fire/Fighting typing for the third time. I was okay with Infernape, but this was a little too much, especially since GameFreak was trying to make Black and White seem more fresh and new.

Emboar isn't fat! It's just big-boned...

Emboar's stat distribution ins't terrible at all. Using Emboar in my current Black replay, it's a beast. Emboar has a high HP and Attack, and decent Defenses. Give it the right moves and it'll be a great Pokemon. Seriously, there are many moves in Emboar's movepool to make up for any area that it's lacking in. Hammer Arm and Nitro Charge just to name a few.

Design-wise, I just find Emboar's mouth to be a little...unattractive to say the least.

Besides the whole typing thing, I seriously don't get all the hate for the big pig. :/
 

RudolphMilotic

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Besides the whole typing thing, I seriously don't get all the hate for the big pig. :/

Neither I do. Except for Charizard and maybe Typhlosion I love all the Fire-starters, so I always choose them regardless of whether they are good in battle or not. In this case, I was pleased with my choice as Jalorda and Daikenki just don't make the cut.
 

Sanic Hegehog

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There are better Mixed Water-type sweepers out there, so it isn't as impressive as it sounds. Bad Speed actually renders Daikenki worthless against other options such as Sharpedo or Hiyakki (which can learn both Cheer Up and Nasty Plot, though it doesn't get Megahorn or Aqua Jet, which aren't that impressive either), and with defensive stats of 95/85/70 you aren't going to resist many hits anyway.

Actually 95/85/70 defenses is pretty good, especially when compared to the other mix sweepers you mentioned (75/63/63 and 70/40/40 respectivly). Plus Aqua Jet and Megahorn do have a significance on Daikenki. Aqua Jet allows Daikenki to by pass its average speed to an extent, though unlike Sharpedo it can handle bulky water types and bulky grass types alike thanks to the fact it learns both Grass Knot and Megahorn landing massive amounts of damage in most cases.

And before you ask "What about Ice Beam? Both Sharpedo and Hiyakki can learn Ice Beam to handle grass types", keep in mind that Megahorn has the advantage of hitting most grass types on the weaker defensive side and the move can do neutral damage on Water types unlike Ice Beam. So basically it's more successful in most cases.

Now I respect your opinion and all that, but I'm just pointing out some stuff.
 

RudolphMilotic

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Actually 95/85/70 defenses is pretty good, especially when compared to the other mix sweepers you mentioned (75/63/63 and 70/40/40 respectivly). Plus Aqua Jet and Megahorn do have a significance on Daikenki. Aqua Jet allows Daikenki to by pass its average speed to an extent, though unlike Sharpedo it can handle bulky water types and bulky grass types alike thanks to the fact it learns both Grass Knot and Megahorn landing massive amounts of damage in most cases.

The thing is that, with poor Speed, having average-to-mediocre defenses doesn't matter because the Pokémon won't be able to sweep as much as it can, which is the point of being an offensive Pokémon. Daikenki just being Water-type doesn't help either because it can be beaten or stalling by other Watert-type Pokémon easily. On top of that, many Water-type already learn Grass Knot so the only thing that makes Daikenki truly shine is Megahorn.

Speaking of Megahorn, as it doesn't get STAB it can be easily stalled by Pokémon such as Slowbro (and it's weak to it): a Bold Slowbro with 252 EVs in both HP and Defense takes up to 62.94% damage from a Megahorn Brave 252 EVs Daikenki holding Life Orb and up to 72.08% with Grass Knot (252 EVs in Sp. Attack) from the same Pokémon. In turn, Slowbro just uses Thunder Wave and proceed to stall it with Slack Off, Leftovers and doing sporadic damage with either Psychic, Grass Knot, Signal Beam, Shadow Ball, etc. If Slowbro has Regeneration it can switch to another safe option and recover more HP in the process. Conclusion: Megahorn isn't that impressive unless you use it on a Swords Dance set, which falls short to other physical sweepers such as Encourage Feraligatr with either a Dragon Dance or -also- a Swords Dance set.

Besides, the fact that Empoleon resists or is neutral to all of Daikenki's attacks barring Hidden Power or Revenge and can KO it back with Grass Knot speaks for itself as a fact that there are much better options for a Water-type than Daikenki.
 

bluesun

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Everything but Pururill.


Also, some sprites have some sort of crop issue. I need a certain Pokemon in order to try and figure out the problem, but I have none of the ones with issues. Oh well, I'll try and figure out some way.
Also, feel free to repost this sheet whereever you want.
 
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Eitarou

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Everything but Pururill.

Also, some sprites have some sort of crop issue. I need a certain Pokemon in order to try and figure out the problem, but I have none of the ones with issues. Oh well, I'll try and figure out some way.

that thing is too small to even see anything properly

and after downloading I take it back

thanks!
 

JordanN

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Everything but Pururill.


Also, some sprites have some sort of crop issue. I need a certain Pokemon in order to try and figure out the problem, but I have none of the ones with issues. Oh well, I'll try and figure out some way.
What is that sheet suppose to be?
 
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